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The Viral Economy

For discussion of religion and politics

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Smoove_B
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Smoove_B »

An interesting piece on the intersection of childcare, work and the economy:
When the economist Betsey Stevenson looks at the pandemic-era economic crisis, she sees a long-simmering child care crisis that has suddenly surged to the foreground of people’s lives—and whose true scope we’ve barely begun to reckon with. Its potential to inflict lasting damage to the economy is enormous, and it’s getting short shrift in the recovery plans coming out of Washington.

“The work of recovering from it will not end just because we have a vaccine,” says Stevenson, a labor economist at the University of Michigan and former member of President Barack Obama’s Council of Economic Advisers. “We are making choices right now about where we will be as an economy in 20 years, in 30 years, based on what we do with these kids.”

Among those most likely to be affected are working mothers, who shoulder an outsize share of child care responsibilities, and have suddenly had far more work dropped in their laps. Women already need to make difficult choices between work advancement and their family roles, which can bring down their incomes over time; Stevenson expects the crisis to make that conflict sharply worse: “The impact of the child care crisis on women’s outcomes is going to be felt over the next decade.”
Of note:
Betsey Stevenson: In some sense, some of our inequality comes from the fact that there are some kids raised in two-parent families with two incomes, and other kids raised in single-parent families with one income. And this sounds really awful to say, but it might reduce inequality: No kid gets two earners; they only get one.

Really, the transition will be very difficult because many families have made plans around having two earners. They bought a house they might not be able to maintain housing payments on. They made plans for how they want to live their lives thinking, ‘Well, we’ll have these two incomes coming in.’ And that’s going to cause a big reshuffling.

But the bigger issue is actually, again, how hard it will be for that one parent who stays home. If one person in the family stays home, and the kids end up going back to school — and you blink your eyes and they’re going to college, right? Five, 10 years down the road, your kids start moving out of the house, and you’re like, ‘OK, now I can go back to work,’ you’re going to have a really hard time getting a job.
In conclusion:
The solution isn’t to pay child care workers less. I don’t think we could. The solution has got to be government spending on child care. It’s going to have to be government encouraging and rewarding businesses that provide employees with the flexibility they need in order to balance work and child care. The policymakers debating legislation right now need to realize that caregiving is an essential part of our economy. And it’s an investment that when they make that, they are going to see benefits in terms of economic growth.

The same folks who are happy to cut corporate taxes because they think that’s going to unleash a wave of growth, I want them to realize that if they want to unleash a wave of growth, they need to invest in the next generation so that the current generation can do their work and the next generation is prepared to do it even better.

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LordMortis
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by LordMortis »

businesses that provide employees with the flexibility they need in order to balance work

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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coopasonic
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by coopasonic »

LordMortis wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:34 am
businesses that provide employees with the flexibility they need in order to balance work

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
So I am guessing your employer doesn't find itself on the "Best Places to Work" lists very often. Mine does and I don't find that line surprising or amusing at all.
-Coop

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pr0ner
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by pr0ner »

coopasonic wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:06 am
LordMortis wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:34 am
businesses that provide employees with the flexibility they need in order to balance work

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
So I am guessing your employer doesn't find itself on the "Best Places to Work" lists very often. Mine does and I don't find that line surprising or amusing at all.
Likewise
Hodor.

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RunningMn9
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by RunningMn9 »

Some people here work for truly awful and inflexible task masters, but it isn’t that way everywhere.
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range

malchior
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by malchior »

Republicans back at it with brinkmanship politics. The House sent them a bill *checks notes* about 2 months ago. Mitch sat on it and now that the unemployment benefits are going to expire, the WH just started freaking out because they know it is partially floating the economy. Fit all these guys for clown shoes. Who could seen this coming?
Spoiler:
Everyone. Everyone did. I'm not going to bother to track down the dozens of articles warning this was imminent.
One of the sticking points is they don't like the flat $600 credit which is still hung up over the *vapid worker disincentive angle*. My first thought is how about we see if its real. You know when employers start complaining they can't find employees? What's better is instead they want to roll out a formula to pro-rate it based on the job the person lost. Which could make sense but the states would have to implement that. However, they are being crushed by the onslaught of unemployment applications. Their proposed fix? That moron Meadows is saying the Federal government can step in to help them out. It expires *this weekend*. They are going to roll out an army of COBOL programmers? You can't make this shit up. The Republicans simply can not govern.
Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin and White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows said Sunday that Congress might have to pass a narrow piece of legislation this week to ensure enhanced unemployment benefits don’t expire for millions of Americans.

But they both also said the slimmed down legislation should include lawsuit protections demanded by businesses, a provision that Democrats have dismissed as a nonstarter for weeks.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) has rejected the piecemeal approach, but time is running short because the temporary unemployment benefits are set to expire at the end of this week. These $600 weekly payments were approved by Congress in March.

After weeks of inaction, White House officials have displayed a new sense of urgency about the economy in the past week amid signs that the recovery is slowing markedly.

...

Bipartisan talks on the next coronavirus package have barely begun, and the White House and Senate Republicans haven’t even formally offered a GOP plan yet. House Democrats passed a bill in May that would extend the $600 weekly payments through January, as the unemployment rate remains above 11 percent.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) intends to roll out a $1 trillion package on Monday covering a range of issues, including a new round of checks to individual Americans. But Democrats are demanding a bill three times that size, and McConnell has said it could take “a few weeks” to reach a deal.

“Honestly I see us being able to provide unemployment insurance, maybe a retention credit to keep people from being displaced or brought back into the workplace, helping with our schools — if we can do that along with liability protections perhaps we put that forward, get that passed as we negotiate on the rest of the bill in the weeks to come,” Meadows said on ABC’s “This Week.”

Mnuchin made similar comments on “Fox News Sunday.”

“Within the $1 trillion package, there are certain things that have time-frames that are a bigger priority. So we could look at doing an entire deal; we could also look at doing parts,” Mnuchin said, highlighting fixing unemployment insurance and a liability shield. “We can move very quickly with the Democrats on these issues. We’ve moved quickly before. … If there are issues that take longer, we’ll deal with those as well.”

...

Republicans do not want to extend the full $600-per-week benefit, which they insist provides a disincentive for people to go back to work. Instead they’ve discussed a formula that would amount to 70 percent wage replacement of the salary a worker was getting paid before getting laid off. Mnuchin suggested on Sunday the federal payment would vary for each beneficiary based on what their earnings were before they lost their job.

Some economists say the new formula would effectively take the $600 weekly payment to around $200 a week, though Mnuchin stressed on Sunday it would vary from person to person.

State unemployment offices have been overwhelmed processing the benefit applications of the 20 million to 30 million unemployed Americans. Some experts have suggested switching to a new system would be time-consuming and difficult, but Meadows said they had been discussing it and believed it could be done if the federal government steps in to help state unemployment offices.

“It’s our goal to make sure that it’s not antiquated computers that keep people from getting their benefits,” Meadows said.

Mnuchin said the package Senate Republicans will unveil on Monday will have a number of different elements, including aid for schools, another round of stimulus checks to individuals, and tax credits to encourage companies to rehire workers, among other things.

White House National Economic Council Director Larry Kudlow said on CNN that the 70 percent unemployment formula should be considered “quite generous by any standard.”

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RunningMn9
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by RunningMn9 »

So generous. I enjoy that they are worried about the liability shield. It’s so safe to return to work that we’re going to make it so you can’t sue your employer if you get sick from there and die. That screams safety!
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range

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Kraken
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Kraken »

Another $2,400 would be most useful right now, as that's exactly what 12 weeks worth of GS441 will cost me. I'm sending $2,400 straight to China.

Why? Because of the US drug approval process. Gilead stopped developing GS441 when another version in the GS series became remdesivir. (GS441 and remdesivir differ only in their absorption rate.) They couldn't develop GS for veterinary use because any negative results in cats could reflect on remdesivir, complicating its approval and requiring further testing. A cardinal rule in drug development is "never do a test that isn't required." So they didn't sell it or license it, but instead dropped it. Fortunately, the Chinese stepped into the breach and there are at least half a dozen different "brands" of GS441 on the black market. Remdesivir would work in cats, too, and might eventually find off-label veterinary use, but it's not available now because there's some sort of human coronavirus going around, as you might have heard.

Because GS is the only treatment for a fatal disease, I'm buying it whether Washington reimburses me or not. The only alternative is letting my cat die. But boy, I sure would like to get that money back.

Want to hear another funny political footnote? The woman who founded FIP Warriors and acts as the source of the drug happens to be Newt Gingrich's younger sister.

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gbasden
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by gbasden »

coopasonic wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:06 am
LordMortis wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:34 am
businesses that provide employees with the flexibility they need in order to balance work

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
So I am guessing your employer doesn't find itself on the "Best Places to Work" lists very often. Mine does and I don't find that line surprising or amusing at all.
Mine as well.

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stessier
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by stessier »

It seems another round of stimulus checks using the same formula is likely. Without a judgement on whether or not it is needed, I'm really concerned about how we will pay for it.
I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities. - Vaarsuvius
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Octavious
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Octavious »

I don't get the logic of how they are just giving it to everyone. My wife and I are fully employed and actually have spent less money. And yet I get a big fat check just like anyone that actually really badly needs it. I'm not complaining and certainly cashed it, but wtf...
Capitalism tries for a delicate balance: It attempts to work things out so that everyone gets just enough stuff to keep them from getting violent and trying to take other people’s stuff.

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stessier
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by stessier »

From what I've read, figuring out a more targeted formula would be difficult, take a lot of time to implement, and still miss people on both ends of the spectrum (pay people who don't need it and miss those that do). In the end, this is quicker and easier and you know there is overage but not much underage.
I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities. - Vaarsuvius
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pr0ner
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by pr0ner »

Octavious wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:00 am
I don't get the logic of how they are just giving it to everyone. My wife and I are fully employed and actually have spent less money. And yet I get a big fat check just like anyone that actually really badly needs it. I'm not complaining and certainly cashed it, but wtf...
They aren't giving checks to everyone. I didn't get a check the first time. I won't this time, either.
Hodor.

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Smoove_B
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Smoove_B »

pr0ner wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:09 am
They aren't giving checks to everyone. I didn't get a check the first time. I won't this time, either.
Was it hard to type that while holding your jar of Grey Poupon? :D

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pr0ner
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by pr0ner »

Smoove_B wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:10 am
pr0ner wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:09 am
They aren't giving checks to everyone. I didn't get a check the first time. I won't this time, either.
Was it hard to type that while holding your jar of Grey Poupon? :D
I only used 4 four fingers - one hand holding on to the Poupon, the other hand with its pinkie raised. :lol:

To be clear, I am perfectly fine not getting stimulus checks.
Hodor.

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coopasonic
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by coopasonic »

pr0ner wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:11 am
Smoove_B wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:10 am
pr0ner wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:09 am
They aren't giving checks to everyone. I didn't get a check the first time. I won't this time, either.
Was it hard to type that while holding your jar of Grey Poupon? :D
I only used 4 four fingers - one hand holding on to the Poupon, the other hand with its pinkie raised. :lol:

To be clear, I am perfectly fine not getting stimulus checks.
I would also be perfectly fine with it. I'm also perfectly fine with getting paid again because I have two kids and a wife that works part time. Her income is low enough (and our CPA good enough) that I even get a small piece of my $1200 ($35.60!!!)
-Coop

malchior
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by malchior »

pr0ner wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:11 am
Smoove_B wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:10 am
pr0ner wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:09 am
They aren't giving checks to everyone. I didn't get a check the first time. I won't this time, either.
Was it hard to type that while holding your jar of Grey Poupon? :D
I only used 4 four fingers - one hand holding on to the Poupon, the other hand with its pinkie raised. :lol:

To be clear, I am perfectly fine not getting stimulus checks.
Same here. I'm ok with it though it still rankles me that I am in the donut hole where I got totally fucked by the tax changes. To the tune of 4 stimulus checks a year. :roll:

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Malificent
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Malificent »

stessier wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:05 am
From what I've read, figuring out a more targeted formula would be difficult, take a lot of time to implement, and still miss people on both ends of the spectrum (pay people who don't need it and miss those that do). In the end, this is quicker and easier and you know there is overage but not much underage.
I think the question is: The people that don't need it, but get one - will they spend it or save it? If they spend it, at least then maybe that money is helping the people they are spending on? If they save it, then that only helps banks and the stock market (which is not the economy).

Not an economist, nor do I play one on TV. In my case, I will get one, and it will probably get spent towards an HVAC system, so I'm doing my share to boost the local economy...

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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Kraken »

Octavious wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:00 am
I don't get the logic of how they are just giving it to everyone. My wife and I are fully employed and actually have spent less money. And yet I get a big fat check just like anyone that actually really badly needs it. I'm not complaining and certainly cashed it, but wtf...
I used most of ours to cover expenses related to my BIL's estate, which continues to slowly bleed us...but I also stepped up my charitable giving. If you don't need the money, I humbly suggest giving some of it to others who do.

If we do get another one just like the first, it will just about cover our veterinary bills. All other unnecessary spending is on hold until we can pay for that.

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Octavious
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Octavious »

Smoove_B wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:10 am
pr0ner wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:09 am
They aren't giving checks to everyone. I didn't get a check the first time. I won't this time, either.
Was it hard to type that while holding your jar of Grey Poupon? :D
:lol: Ya I know there was a lower and upper limit, but I mean I got an asston of money for no reason. It' was awesome and all, but seems like I'll just end up paying more for it in the end. :doh:
Capitalism tries for a delicate balance: It attempts to work things out so that everyone gets just enough stuff to keep them from getting violent and trying to take other people’s stuff.

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Smoove_B
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Smoove_B »

The money we received didn't even cover a quarterly property tax payment in NJ. I genuinely feel for people and families in need right now. The idea that money/aid to them is being held up by politicians is beyond depressing.

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Octavious
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Octavious »

They must be really running out of money if they are cutting the extra payment to 200 instead of 600. I would think they would want to do anything to stay in peoples good graces before the election.
Capitalism tries for a delicate balance: It attempts to work things out so that everyone gets just enough stuff to keep them from getting violent and trying to take other people’s stuff.

Shameless plug for my website: www.nettphoto.com

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Smoove_B
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Smoove_B »

I don't think that's it at all. From what I can glean off local social media, there are still quite a few people really upset that we're proposing to continue "paying people to stay home". The idea that this money somehow incentivizes people to sit around and do nothing really irritates a certain demographic.

Meanwhile, this is how Trump is proposing we fix things:

Kudlow & Trump have pushed expanded entertainment and meals deductions that would allow companies to offset their tax burden

Kudlow touted them as encouraging fans to go back to baseball games — MLB is obviously struggling w/ Covid even w/o fans at games

Trump has promoted the deduction by arguing it will encourage businesses to send their workers & executives back to restaurants and sporting events: "They'll send their executives, they'll send their people there, and they get a deduction"

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Octavious
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Octavious »

Ya I have seen that they think it's making people stay home. Um no they don't have a job to go to because we have an idiot who let a virus spread like wildfire. I really really have a hard time not being super angry all the time as of late. :evil:
Capitalism tries for a delicate balance: It attempts to work things out so that everyone gets just enough stuff to keep them from getting violent and trying to take other people’s stuff.

Shameless plug for my website: www.nettphoto.com

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stessier
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by stessier »

Octavious wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:06 pm
Ya I have seen that they think it's making people stay home. Um no they don't have a job to go to because we have an idiot who let a virus spread like wildfire. I really really have a hard time not being super angry all the time as of late. :evil:
Which is so very unlike you and your avatar.

:wink:
I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities. - Vaarsuvius
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Zarathud
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Zarathud »

Trump is literally trying to buy votes and keep protesters out of the streets. He’s always walked away from his failed business deals and let someone else pay. His Presidency is no different.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
"I don't stand by anything." - Trump
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Octavious
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Octavious »

stessier wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:15 pm
Octavious wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:06 pm
Ya I have seen that they think it's making people stay home. Um no they don't have a job to go to because we have an idiot who let a virus spread like wildfire. I really really have a hard time not being super angry all the time as of late. :evil:
Which is so very unlike you and your avatar.

:wink:
:lol: It's mind blowing to me that we're in the position that we are right now. After Bush left office the country pretty much kersploded. Obama comes in fixes all the crap and we turn around and elect a guy who kersplodes it even more. AND if Biden does win they will blame all the carnage left behind on him. It's just so depressing.
Capitalism tries for a delicate balance: It attempts to work things out so that everyone gets just enough stuff to keep them from getting violent and trying to take other people’s stuff.

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Jaymon
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Jaymon »

I am still employed same as pre-covid, and very thankful for that. I did get the stimulus check. We spent it. Its gone mainly to local restaurants for delivery meals, and we are tipping the drivers crazy high. I know its gig work, with no insurance and no safety net, and they are out there with all the crazy people face to face, so we are giving $12 tip for $30 meals.

So it went straight into the local economy, into the hands of folks who need it, even if i did get some Chinese as part of the deal.
Bunnies like beer because its made from hops.

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Octavious
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Octavious »

Jaymon wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:30 pm
I am still employed same as pre-covid, and very thankful for that. I did get the stimulus check. We spent it. Its gone mainly to local restaurants for delivery meals, and we are tipping the drivers crazy high. I know its gig work, with no insurance and no safety net, and they are out there with all the crazy people face to face, so we are giving $12 tip for $30 meals.

So it went straight into the local economy, into the hands of folks who need it, even if i did get some Chinese as part of the deal.
That's a good point to make that I wasn't really thinking about. I did spend a bunch of that money on things that I needed. We got a new couch and kitchen table, bought a dumpster to clean out the house that was just piled with clutter from the last 17 years and we're redoing my daughter's room. We wouldn't have spent that money if it wasn't for the checks. I also got back paid an asston of money from work at the same time which didn't hurt either. We've saved a bunch of the money as I'm sure the rug could get pulled out form underneath us at any point.
Capitalism tries for a delicate balance: It attempts to work things out so that everyone gets just enough stuff to keep them from getting violent and trying to take other people’s stuff.

Shameless plug for my website: www.nettphoto.com

malchior
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by malchior »

Octavious wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:45 pm
They must be really running out of money if they are cutting the extra payment to 200 instead of 600. I would think they would want to do anything to stay in peoples good graces before the election.
We aren't running out of money. It is purely dogma based deficit scold combined with Dickensian sensibility mixed together in a smorgasbord of right-wing bullshit.

malchior
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by malchior »

Octavious wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:18 pm
:lol: It's mind blowing to me that we're in the position that we are right now. After Bush left office the country pretty much kersploded. Obama comes in fixes all the crap and we turn around and elect a guy who kersplodes it even more. AND if Biden does win they will blame all the carnage left behind on him. It's just so depressing.
Remember when I used to say in like 2005-2006 that the United States was becoming a ungovernable mess? This is not quite what I had in mind - I thought the housing bubble was going to get us at the time - but direction-ally this is what I meant. :(

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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by LawBeefaroni »

malchior wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:40 pm
Octavious wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:45 pm
They must be really running out of money if they are cutting the extra payment to 200 instead of 600. I would think they would want to do anything to stay in peoples good graces before the election.
We aren't running out of money. It is purely dogma based deficit scold combined with Dickensian sensibility mixed together in a smorgasbord of right-wing bullshit.
We can't run out of money. Just print more and run up debt.

Meanwhile, in completely unrelated, totally not tied to the demise of the dollar and the Fed faucet news, gold just hit an time high and I can't buy silver anymore. Also BTC is about to break $11K.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by malchior »

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:47 pm
malchior wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:40 pm
Octavious wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:45 pm
They must be really running out of money if they are cutting the extra payment to 200 instead of 600. I would think they would want to do anything to stay in peoples good graces before the election.
We aren't running out of money. It is purely dogma based deficit scold combined with Dickensian sensibility mixed together in a smorgasbord of right-wing bullshit.
We can't run out of money. Just print more and run up debt.

Meanwhile, in completely unrelated, totally not tied to the demise of the dollar and the Fed faucet news, gold just hit an time high and I can't buy silver anymore. Also BTC is about to break $11K.
We are running what 95% debt-to-GDP. Wake me when we get to half Japan's level. :)

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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Holman »

Octavious wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:18 pm
:lol: It's mind blowing to me that we're in the position that we are right now. After Bush left office the country pretty much kersploded. Obama comes in fixes all the crap and we turn around and elect a guy who kersplodes it even more. AND if Biden does win they will blame all the carnage left behind on him. It's just so depressing.
Republicans break it, Democrats fix it. Repeat.

It's called "checks & balances." Read a book maybe??

:wink:
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Octavious »

It was never this painfully obvious. Now they are getting out of office like an action star running from an explosion. :lol:
Capitalism tries for a delicate balance: It attempts to work things out so that everyone gets just enough stuff to keep them from getting violent and trying to take other people’s stuff.

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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by LawBeefaroni »

malchior wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:50 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:47 pm
malchior wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:40 pm
Octavious wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:45 pm
They must be really running out of money if they are cutting the extra payment to 200 instead of 600. I would think they would want to do anything to stay in peoples good graces before the election.
We aren't running out of money. It is purely dogma based deficit scold combined with Dickensian sensibility mixed together in a smorgasbord of right-wing bullshit.
We can't run out of money. Just print more and run up debt.

Meanwhile, in completely unrelated, totally not tied to the demise of the dollar and the Fed faucet news, gold just hit an time high and I can't buy silver anymore. Also BTC is about to break $11K.
We are running what 95% debt-to-GDP. Wake me when we get to half Japan's level. :)
Probably more like 105%, not counting our most recent adventures.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by malchior »

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:11 pm
malchior wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:50 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:47 pm
malchior wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:40 pm
Octavious wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:45 pm
They must be really running out of money if they are cutting the extra payment to 200 instead of 600. I would think they would want to do anything to stay in peoples good graces before the election.
We aren't running out of money. It is purely dogma based deficit scold combined with Dickensian sensibility mixed together in a smorgasbord of right-wing bullshit.
We can't run out of money. Just print more and run up debt.

Meanwhile, in completely unrelated, totally not tied to the demise of the dollar and the Fed faucet news, gold just hit an time high and I can't buy silver anymore. Also BTC is about to break $11K.
We are running what 95% debt-to-GDP. Wake me when we get to half Japan's level. :)
Probably more like 105%, not counting our most recent adventures.
Nah - not yet. According to that analysis at least.
The United States entered the current public health and economic crisis facing high levels of debt and trillion-dollar deficits. Due to the effects of the crisis and legislation enacted to combat it, debt and deficits will now grow much higher, to never-before-seen levels both in dollars and as a share of Gross Domestic Product (GDP).

Our latest projections find that under current law, budget deficits will total more than $3.8 trillion (18.7 percent of GDP) this year and $2.1 trillion (9.7 percent of GDP) in 2021. We project debt held by the public will exceed the size of the economy by the end of Fiscal Year 2020 and eclipse the prior record set after World War II by 2023.

These projections almost certainly underestimate deficits, since they assume no further legislation is enacted to address the crisis and that policymakers stick to current law when it comes to other tax and spending policies. The projections also assume the economy experiences a strong recovery in 2021 and fully returns to its pre-crisis trajectory by 2025. Assuming a slower and weaker recovery (but no changes in law), we estimate debt would grow to 117 percent of GDP by 2025.

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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by coopasonic »

Malificent wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:55 pm
stessier wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:05 am
From what I've read, figuring out a more targeted formula would be difficult, take a lot of time to implement, and still miss people on both ends of the spectrum (pay people who don't need it and miss those that do). In the end, this is quicker and easier and you know there is overage but not much underage.
I think the question is: The people that don't need it, but get one - will they spend it or save it? If they spend it, at least then maybe that money is helping the people they are spending on? If they save it, then that only helps banks and the stock market (which is not the economy).

Not an economist, nor do I play one on TV. In my case, I will get one, and it will probably get spent towards an HVAC system, so I'm doing my share to boost the local economy...
We are getting a new HVAC system as well and while yes, technically you can consider either stimulus check as part of that, we were getting the new HVAC regardless. We are spending less due to COVID, not more (despite my income being unchanged and my wife actually making a bit more) and the stimulus check isn't changing that. I'm not going to spend more money just because the govt is lazy (yeah, I know this stimulus thing is hard). I'll probably want that around when the inevitable tax changes come.
-Coop

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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by LawBeefaroni »

malchior wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:16 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:11 pm
malchior wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:50 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:47 pm
malchior wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:40 pm
Octavious wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:45 pm
They must be really running out of money if they are cutting the extra payment to 200 instead of 600. I would think they would want to do anything to stay in peoples good graces before the election.
We aren't running out of money. It is purely dogma based deficit scold combined with Dickensian sensibility mixed together in a smorgasbord of right-wing bullshit.
We can't run out of money. Just print more and run up debt.

Meanwhile, in completely unrelated, totally not tied to the demise of the dollar and the Fed faucet news, gold just hit an time high and I can't buy silver anymore. Also BTC is about to break $11K.
We are running what 95% debt-to-GDP. Wake me when we get to half Japan's level. :)
Probably more like 105%, not counting our most recent adventures.
Nah - not yet. According to that analysis at least.
The United States entered the current public health and economic crisis facing high levels of debt and trillion-dollar deficits. Due to the effects of the crisis and legislation enacted to combat it, debt and deficits will now grow much higher, to never-before-seen levels both in dollars and as a share of Gross Domestic Product (GDP).

Our latest projections find that under current law, budget deficits will total more than $3.8 trillion (18.7 percent of GDP) this year and $2.1 trillion (9.7 percent of GDP) in 2021. We project debt held by the public will exceed the size of the economy by the end of Fiscal Year 2020 and eclipse the prior record set after World War II by 2023.

These projections almost certainly underestimate deficits, since they assume no further legislation is enacted to address the crisis and that policymakers stick to current law when it comes to other tax and spending policies. The projections also assume the economy experiences a strong recovery in 2021 and fully returns to its pre-crisis trajectory by 2025. Assuming a slower and weaker recovery (but no changes in law), we estimate debt would grow to 117 percent of GDP by 2025.
We're already at $26T debt at the end of June. 2019 GDP was like $21T. So unless we have massive GDP growth this year we are already over 100%. Deficit to GDP isn't what I'm talking about.
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"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

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malchior
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by malchior »

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:29 pm
We're already at $26T debt at the end of June. 2019 GDP was like $21T. So unless we have massive GDP growth this year we are already over 100%. Deficit to GDP isn't what I'm talking about.
Ah - the analysis was for Debt Held by the Public and you are talking Total Debt. In any case, my point was that when a country has borrowed to 300+% GDP and still faces deflation...well it puts a lot of this deficit scold stuff into perspective. Price of gold aside.

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