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The Viral Economy

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Max Peck
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Max Peck »

Canada unveils largest economic relief package since WW2
Canada's federal government will spend C$100bn ($77bn, £58bn) to kick-start the country's post-pandemic economy.

It is "the largest economic relief package for our country since the Second World War", Finance Minister Chrystia Freeland said on Monday.

The spending will bring the deficit to a historic C$381.6bn by March 2021.

The wide-ranging plan includes targeted relief for hard-hit business sectors, investments in long-term care homes and distribution of a Covid-19 vaccine.

The announcement - the first full fiscal update from Canada's Liberal government since the onset of the pandemic - comes as the country battles a steep second wave of Covid-19 infections. The number of active cases in Canada has more than doubled in November alone, bringing the total number of infections to more than 376,000 - according to a tally from Johns Hopkins University. So far, more than 12,000 Canadians have died.

"When the virus is under control and our economy is ready for new growth, we will employ an ambitious stimulus package," to be spent over the next three years, Ms Freeland said in the House of Commons on Monday. The spending will amount to 3-4% of Canada's GDP.

Monday's fiscal plan pledges C$1bn to help provinces and territories improve Covid-19 infection control in long-term care facilities. Industries that have been particularly vulnerable to economic shutdowns like tourism, travel and arts will be eligible for business loans up to C$1m, with a 10-year term. And for Canada's lower and middle income families, package promises up to C$1,200 for each child under 6.

An additional C$1bn will also be directed to vaccine agreements. "Canada has secured the most diverse vaccine portfolio in the world," Ms Freeland said. Canada has secured seven different vaccine purchase contracts, she said, enough for each Canadian to receive 10 doses, free of charge.

And to pay for the expansive plan, Canada will see its largest budget shortfall since World War Two.

On Monday, Ms Freeland defended the record deficit as affordable - thanks to low interest rates - and necessary for Canada's economy. "As we have learned from previous recessions, the risk of providing too little support now outweighs that of providing too much," she said. "We will not repeat the mistakes of the years following the Great Recession of 2008."
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Smoove_B
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Smoove_B »

Meanwhile, Mitch McConnell continues to be a gigantic PoS:


Just to illustrate 1 change here -->

Sept. 8: McConnell releases plan including $300/week in supplemental federal UI for jobless Americans

Dec. 1: McConnell releases plan including $0/week in supplemental federal UI for jobless Americans

McConnell now circulating a plan with:

- no state & local aid;
- only 1 additional month in PUA & PEUC for jobless Americans;
- no additional stimulus checks;
- Sen. Cornyny's proposed liability shield;
- no money for transit agencies

...among other non-starters for Dems
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Isgrimnur
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Isgrimnur »

CNBC
Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell rejected a proposed bipartisan coronavirus stimulus package Tuesday amid months of congressional inaction on curbing the economic damage from the outbreak.

The Kentucky Republican, who has supported about $500 billion in new aid spending, said he wants to pass what he called a “targeted relief bill” this year. McConnell said he spoke to White House officials about what President Donald Trump would sign into law. He plans to offer potential solutions to GOP senators and get their feedback.

“We just don’t have time to waste time,” he told reporters in response to the roughly $908 billion plan put together by bipartisan members of the GOP-controlled Senate and Democratic-held House.
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LawBeefaroni
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by LawBeefaroni »

So sick of that prick.
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Smoove_B
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Smoove_B »

Hilarious.


Remember when Republicans sneered that they'd never support "Blue State Bailouts"?

Well, some Republican states are now facing serious revenue shortfalls.

Which might help explain why some GOP Senators are moving toward backing the stimulus compromise:
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Alefroth
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Alefroth »

I wish I could muster up a chuckle.
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Smoove_B
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Smoove_B »

Maybe we shouldn't be giving hate groups pandemic aid money? I'm ok with that.
Fourteen organizations designated as hate groups by the Southern Poverty Law Center or the Anti-Defamation League have received funding from the Paycheck Protection Program totaling $4.3 million, according to data released last week by the Small Business Administration, revealing who benefited from the pandemic federal relief funds.

Those organizations include the New Century Foundation, known for publishing the white supremacist website and now-discontinued magazine American Renaissance. That group is run by prominent white supremacist Jared Taylor, who for decades has argued that immigration policy should aim to “keep the country white.” The New Century Foundation received $51,600 in relief funds.
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Little Raven
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Little Raven »

A possible silver lining to all this (assuming you care more about the environment than coal jobs, anyway)
President Donald Trump promised he would save the US coal industry. But as his tenure winds down, the industry is struggling through some of its darkest days, plagued by falling demand, bankruptcies and job losses.

The coal mining industry has lost 8,000 jobs, or 15% of its workforce, over the last 12 months, according to the November jobs report.

And last week two more coal companies, Lighthouse Resources and White Stallion Energy, both filed for bankruptcy. They were at least the fourth and fifth coal miners to file for bankruptcy in the last five months, according to information on BankruptcyData.com, following filings earlier this year by Hopewell Mining, FM Coal and CLI USA.

...

"2020 has been a year unlike any other," said Peabody CEO Glenn Kellow. "Within the US, coal generation is down 24% through September as Covid has accelerated what was previously projected to be a multiyear decline in coal demand."
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malchior
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by malchior »

King McConnell has spoken. Bills that'd pass if he allowed votes won't be considered. Only bills that are inadequate and won't pass anyway. It is clear he wants to saddle a weak economy on Biden.

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Little Raven
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Little Raven »

California businesses pushed 'to breaking point.'
Laurie Thomas had high hopes that her restaurant, Terzo, would be able to stay open this holiday season. Her team had been serving its upscale Mediterranean fare from the restaurant’s San Francisco sidewalk after adjusting to outside-only dining requirements.

But as California saw a dramatic surge in Covid cases in recent weeks, Governor Gavin Newsom issued stricter shutdown orders that again restricted businesses and put an end to outdoor dining.

Now, thousands of newly constructed outside dining parklets across the state – some which cost tens of thousands of dollars to build – sit empty. Restaurateurs like Thomas are bracing for difficult weeks ahead. Many of them say they won’t survive on takeout and deliveries alone, making another surge in statewide unemployment all but certain.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by gbasden »

Little Raven wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:16 pm California businesses pushed 'to breaking point.'
Laurie Thomas had high hopes that her restaurant, Terzo, would be able to stay open this holiday season. Her team had been serving its upscale Mediterranean fare from the restaurant’s San Francisco sidewalk after adjusting to outside-only dining requirements.

But as California saw a dramatic surge in Covid cases in recent weeks, Governor Gavin Newsom issued stricter shutdown orders that again restricted businesses and put an end to outdoor dining.

Now, thousands of newly constructed outside dining parklets across the state – some which cost tens of thousands of dollars to build – sit empty. Restaurateurs like Thomas are bracing for difficult weeks ahead. Many of them say they won’t survive on takeout and deliveries alone, making another surge in statewide unemployment all but certain.
Unfortunately, ICU availability has also been pushed to the breaking point. Here's the data as of yesterday:

Northern California 29.0%
Bay Area 16.7%
Greater Sacramento 15.1%
San Joaquin Valley 1.5%
Southern California 4.2%

I don't understand how he could have been expected to do nothing? It absolutely sucks for restaurants, just like it does for bars and movie theaters, but I think keeping hospitals from being completely overloaded is more important.
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Kraken
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Kraken »

Little Raven wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:16 pm California businesses pushed 'to breaking point.'
Laurie Thomas had high hopes that her restaurant, Terzo, would be able to stay open this holiday season. Her team had been serving its upscale Mediterranean fare from the restaurant’s San Francisco sidewalk after adjusting to outside-only dining requirements.

But as California saw a dramatic surge in Covid cases in recent weeks, Governor Gavin Newsom issued stricter shutdown orders that again restricted businesses and put an end to outdoor dining.

Now, thousands of newly constructed outside dining parklets across the state – some which cost tens of thousands of dollars to build – sit empty. Restaurateurs like Thomas are bracing for difficult weeks ahead. Many of them say they won’t survive on takeout and deliveries alone, making another surge in statewide unemployment all but certain.
Baker's being pressured to lock down Mass. now, while it can still do some good, but he's determined to let state businesses get a piece of xmas business first. The clampdown here is going to have to wait another 10 days or so.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by malchior »

Initial outlines of the stimulus package they are wrestling over is coming out. Some of the highlights are that the GOP seems to be willing to tank the economy as long as Biden is President. Some reports indicate they are trying to codify the Mnuchin move to tie the hands of the Fed to intervene in the markets if a crisis occurs. Another angle is they are going to only extend out a month or two on unemployment at much reduced levels and a one time infusion of $600. This is insanity. This system is slow collapsing in front of us and the major media outlets are just pitching it as two sides negotiating. We're fucked.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Daehawk »

Lots of talk online today about the $600 check they are arguing over.

"The Government gives $1.7 million to each business but argues over $600 to a person. Its our tax dollars. They want us to pay 8 months of back rent or mortgage with it"

"So what brand coffee are you buying with your $600?"

"What half of your mortgage payment are you using your $600 for?"

Hehehe. It would pay one mortgage payment for me.
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malchior
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by malchior »

This is why I think we're screwed. We have these elderly, rich, out of touch pols essentially fighting tooth and nail over ineffectual feel good measures in the middle of one of the worst crises in a century.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Kraken »

I gave my nephew $500 for rent a couple of weeks ago, so I guess maybe I'm getting paid back.
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LordMortis
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by LordMortis »

As much as I'd love $600, forget me. Extend unemployment and mortgage rent/forgiveness. I'm too stingy and lazy to give my money (which I am sure they will tax) to charity but I am in the rare situation of having no objections with being left out and not feeling like I got the short end of the stick. Help the literal millions who are have been struggling for getting on a year.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by gbasden »

LordMortis wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:35 pm As much as I'd love $600, forget me. Extend unemployment and mortgage rent/forgiveness. I'm too stingy and lazy to give my money (which I am sure they will tax) to charity but I am in the rare situation of having no objections with being left out and not feeling like I got the short end of the stick. Help the literal millions who are have been struggling for getting on a year.
Yep. I'd love for this to be targeted, rather than a blanket distribution.
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malchior
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by malchior »

gbasden wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:03 pm
LordMortis wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:35 pm As much as I'd love $600, forget me. Extend unemployment and mortgage rent/forgiveness. I'm too stingy and lazy to give my money (which I am sure they will tax) to charity but I am in the rare situation of having no objections with being left out and not feeling like I got the short end of the stick. Help the literal millions who are have been struggling for getting on a year.
Yep. I'd love for this to be targeted, rather than a blanket distribution.
The trade off is the targeting is filtered through each state's unemployment eligibility rules and bureaucracy and introduces some significant hurdles. The other side was the blanket check ended up being saved or used to pay debt. Does that translate into more spending? Maybe. Still at best it'd be indirectly and inefficiently.
Last edited by malchior on Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Smoove_B
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Smoove_B »

With that $600 people can buy refrigerators and microwaves and then they'll be rich like the people in Congress!
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Isgrimnur »

And at least two avocado toasts.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Z-Corn »

Kraken wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:21 pm I gave my nephew $500 for rent a couple of weeks ago, so I guess maybe I'm getting paid back.
Wait, you moved!?
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Kraken »

Z-Corn wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:10 pm
Kraken wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:21 pm I gave my nephew $500 for rent a couple of weeks ago, so I guess maybe I'm getting paid back.
Wait, you moved!?
:lol:

My nephew works -- or worked -- at a restaurant in Muskegon that shut down because there's some kind of bug going around there. Michigan's rental assistance program apparently involves messaging one's family in a panic. I'm the rich uncle who comes thru when nobody else can.

If the gubmint sends me $600 I'll eventually end up giving it to someone who needs it worse than I do. Probably the same nephew again. Poor guy tries his best to provide for his three kids but keeps getting knocked down.
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Re: The Viral Economy

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LordMortis wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:35 pm As much as I'd love $600, forget me. Extend unemployment and mortgage rent/forgiveness. I'm too stingy and lazy to give my money (which I am sure they will tax)
They didn't tax the last distribution.

I agree that targeted would be better, but I've read enough of how hard it is to target effectively and in a timely manner that I understand why they are proposing to do a blanket distribution. And for those of us with time, we can do our own distributions if we choose.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Yeah, take the money if you get it. Chances are high that you can do more good with it in your community then the Federal Government could.

It you don't want to spend too much time on it, donate half to a local food pantry and bank the other half. You're covered for taxes.

https://www.wzzm13.com/article/news/com ... -michigan/

As we head into the holiday season, many more people in West Michigan are facing food insecurity. In 2019, Feeding America West Michigan said one in eight families were concerned about where their next meal would come from. In 2020, because of the COVID-19 pandemic, the numbers are now one in six.
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malchior
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by malchior »

Economic poison pill provision still holding up stimulus. Another episode in zero logic. It's hung up over a facility they call marginally useful (last sentence in the quote below). If that's the case, then let it lie. What's the harm?
Congressional negotiators raced Saturday to reach final agreement on an emergency pandemic relief package that would extend unemployment benefits, increase assistance to businesses, and send a new round of stimulus checks to most American taxpayers.

But a handful of delicate issues still threatened to impede the approximately $900 billion deal after days of nonstop talks, most notably a Republican push led by Sen. Patrick J. Toomey (R-Pa.) to constrain the Federal Reserve’s ability to issue emergency loans. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) called it “the big thing” that is “pushing back an agreement.”

“It’s not a detail, it’s a very significant difference,” she said.

Immense pressure is bearing down on top congressional leaders to complete an agreement eight months after they last acted to aid a country ravaged by covid-19. Virus deaths are at all-time highs; unemployment claims are rising; and rank-and-file lawmakers are clamoring for action after months of false starts.

The approaching Christmas holiday, a looming pair of Senate special elections in Georgia and the prospect of a partial government shutdown are all acting to push negotiators toward finalizing a deal this weekend.

Congressional leaders have given themselves until Sunday midnight to close out talks. President Trump signed a two-day extension of federal appropriations Friday night, hours before a partial government shutdown would have started.

Publicly, top leaders struck an upbeat note.

“We’re going to get there,” Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) said Friday evening.

But privately, according to multiple lawmakers and aides monitoring the talks but not authorized to speak about them publicly, several thorny issues have yet to be hashed out.

Lawmakers have yet to resolve eligibility for small business relief; how to structure unemployment aid; and the criteria for sending out a $600 per person stimulus check. However, many aides close to talks expressed optimism these issues could be resolved fairly quickly if other sticking points are resolved.

Sen. John Thune (R-S.D.), the No. 2 ranking Republican senator, said Saturday that the “probably more likely scenario” is that negotiations stretch into Monday. “But I think we’re in the homestretch, we’re on the glide path,” Thune said. “I think we’re going to get this done and help out the American people.”

No issue has proven more nettlesome in the 11th hour than a Republican proposal, authored and promoted most vigorously by Toomey, that would ensure that the Federal Reserve could not continue emergency lending programs for small- and medium-sized businesses as well as state and local governments past Jan. 1.

Republicans say those programs, initially funded with a $500 billion congressional appropriation under the March relief bill, were of marginal utility earlier in the pandemic and are no longer necessary in any case.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Smoove_B »

I cannot believe how much they're arguing over $600. We're under a total of what around $5 a day of benefits from the government since the pandemic started? So committed to their platform and trying to insulate themselves from voters, they refuse to provide any measurable benefits to taxpayers that are suffering. But if every citizen incorporated themselves as a business first, they'd be stumbling over themselves to get aid out.
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malchior
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by malchior »

In Europe and Canada it was thousands a *month*. In the US? So far $1200 for 2020. Its outrageous because the indirect costs are staggering. Meanwhile the market is willing to lend us money at inflation adjusted negative rates.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by LawBeefaroni »

They're hung up on the Fed lending provisions? Are they fucking serious? This is a backup program that, while little used in round 1, is a necessary safety valve.



But I guess things are just fine. Who needs backup systems.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by malchior »

So the question I've had the last 3 or 4 days was why do the Republicans care about this Fed facility? It took me awhile but one article mentioned that it comes down they think the Fed will use it to bail out blue states. Unbelievable. I'm so tired of these assholes. Especially since this is all window dressing anyway. I was just curious to see if we could even push through token legislation and it is like pulling teeth.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Ralph-Wiggum »

Also, I think their general plan is to have the economy tank during Biden’s term so that they can blame Dems for any hardships people face. Generally the only core belief of the GOP at this point is that they will do whatever it takes to retain or gain power.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Pyperkub »

malchior wrote:So the question I've had the last 3 or 4 days was why do the Republicans care about this Fed facility? It took me awhile but one article mentioned that it comes down they think the Fed will use it to bail out blue states. Unbelievable. I'm so tired of these assholes. Especially since this is all window dressing anyway. I was just curious to see if we could even push through token legislation and it is like pulling teeth.
Bail out any states. They want the red states to collapse as well. Bankruptcy will kill public schools and public teacher unions - they will default on their pensions, which is the plan.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by malchior »

Well they announced a deal. The NY Times described this whole debacle as 'peak dysfunction'. The details - $600 check. $300 a week unemployment support for a few months. A PPP extension. More than half the cost of the bill is re-allocated money from CARES to 'protect the deficit'.
At nearly $1 trillion, the package was one of the largest federal relief measures in American history. Yet the resulting compromise fell well short of what most economists have said would be needed to jolt the shuddering economy, and would leave President-elect Joseph R. Biden Jr., who pushed for the compromise, facing the task of seeking yet another major economic relief package when he takes office in January.

The relief plan will be paired with a $1.4 trillion catchall government spending bill. Included are the 12 annual appropriation bills to fund every federal department and social safety net programs, as well as an array of legislative add-ons lawmakers attached to ensure their priorities could be enacted before Congress adjourns for the year.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Alefroth »

Ah yeah, time to be deficit hawks again.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by malchior »

Alefroth wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:00 pm Ah yeah, time to be deficit hawks again.
Yup - to protect the insane wealth of the rich the next stimulus package will feature a bowl of millet with a splash of some salt.

Edit: Let's compare to what other advanced economies did:

Editorial note - there are caveats here. There were considerations based on job lost, when they lost it, how they lost it, and these weren't unlimited bottomless benefits, etc. The wrong impression to take is to think they were paying their entire country to sit in their homes and not work. Oh and they all have universal healthcare.

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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by LordMortis »

https://www.vox.com/22193651/second-sti ... n-how-much
But the new stimulus checks won’t be exactly like the first ones: Eligible adults will receive up to $600 each — half the amount allotted during the first round of payouts. As with the first round of stimulus, checks will get smaller with higher incomes, at a decreasing rate of $5 less for every additional $100 of income starting at $75,000 and cutting off entirely at $99,000. Couples can receive up to $1,200 and households with children under the age of 17 are eligible for $600 per child.
Assuming this is based on 1999 income, I'll be getting very little and I'm OK with that. I do wish they somehow had a better plan but $600 a pop to those who need it most is better than $0 a pop. If I read correctly the remaining 80% goes to rent relief, unemployment, and COVID health care... in a 5,600 page bill. Who's read a 5,600 page bill and what did it need to say, I wonder.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Blackhawk »

Once again, as a household of four with one disabled adult child at 19 and one child at 17, we'll be screwed over. The Democrats wanted to relax the definition of minor dependent so that it didn't exclude half of all high school kids this time, but the GOP refused.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by $iljanus »

Blackhawk wrote:Once again, as a household of four with one disabled adult child at 19 and one child at 17, we'll be screwed over. The Democrats wanted to relax the definition of minor dependent so that it didn't exclude half of all high school kids this time, but the GOP refused.
That just pisses me off, especially since the business meal tax deduction is in the bill and almost 1.4 billion for the fucking wall. And they're dicking around over dependent classifications and think 600 bucks is oh so generous?
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by malchior »

They snuck in all kinds of bullshit. I saw someone point out that this is the impact of the brinkmanship. The system is actually encouraging it to get worse because when the bills are slammed in last minute then we are kept in the dark. They are free to reward the rich and powerful who fund them. Maybe they don't give two shits about us and it doesn't matter -- in effect they'll do whatever they want. It'd still be nice to have an opportunity to even have a chance to address our grievances before they became law.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Smoove_B »

malchior wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:26 pm They snuck in all kinds of bullshit.
For example - the updated tax break for meals businesses will now be able to use.
No, it is what’s being called the “three-martini lunch” tax deduction, which President Trump has pushed for since the spring as a means to boost a restaurant industry that has been hit especially hard by the pandemic. Businesses have only been able to take 50% of their meal expenses off of their federal taxes since the 1980s, but a proposal backed by the White House and Sen. Tim Scott, a South Carolina Republican, would let them write off 100%.

People are unable to pay bills, buy food or pay rent and mortgages. But let's make sure businesses can deduct 100% of their meal expenses.

Rotten to the core. The greatest nation on Earth just agreed to pennies a day for all U.S. citizens. Absolutely disgusting.
I'm so far off the map the sun is shining
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