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The Viral Economy

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LordMortis
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by LordMortis »

noxiousdog wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:51 am Also, let's be clear: short selling did not almost destroy his business.
a highly-coordinated public relations and legal campaign against our company. Within months, press that ignored us began assailing us. We were sued over 100 times, and a federal government investigation was triggered that alarmed both our shareholders and customers causing real damage.
Slander and libel nearly destroyed his business.
noxiousdog wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:37 am People don't like short sellers for two reasons:
1) it destroys the illusion that the market always goes up.
2) they don't understand how the stock market works
3) Short selling is the profit mechanism used by hedge funds in tandem with slander and libel to manipulate markets which anecdotally nearly destroys businesses or worse.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by noxiousdog »

LordMortis wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:57 am 3) Short selling is the profit mechanism used by hedge funds in tandem with slander and libel to manipulate markets which anecdotally nearly destroys businesses or worse.
So are put options. Should those be outlawed too? What about selling futures?

I know. Let's just have a rule you can never sell. Then everything would go up.
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"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
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LordMortis
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by LordMortis »

noxiousdog wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:05 am
LordMortis wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:57 am 3) Short selling is the profit mechanism used by hedge funds in tandem with slander and libel to manipulate markets which anecdotally nearly destroys businesses or worse.
So are put options. Should those be outlawed too? What about selling futures?

I know. Let's just have a rule you can never sell. Then everything would go up.
I don't think outlawing shorts is what people are generally going for. From where I sit it look like you playing keep away to champion short sellers because you believe the only reasons to dislike short selling is because people have illusions and don't understand the stock market. Also, puts should be in a similar basket. Regulation and enforcement is what I believe are going for. I think people generally want more transparency, as you would have for insider activity so that you have means to react to/investigate slander, libel, market manipulation. I think they generally don't trust the SEC to act in their interests and to pursue white collar crimes and they don't trust that the Capitol has their back when it comes the ultra wealthy amassing more wealth and deciding the rules and the rule makers and the rule enforcers.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by noxiousdog »

LordMortis wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:19 am
noxiousdog wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:05 am
LordMortis wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:57 am 3) Short selling is the profit mechanism used by hedge funds in tandem with slander and libel to manipulate markets which anecdotally nearly destroys businesses or worse.
So are put options. Should those be outlawed too? What about selling futures?

I know. Let's just have a rule you can never sell. Then everything would go up.
I don't think outlawing shorts is what people are generally going for. From where I sit it look like you playing keep away to champion short sellers because you believe the only reasons to dislike short selling is because people have illusions and don't understand the stock market. Also, puts should be in a similar basket. Regulation and enforcement is what I believe are going for. I think people generally want more transparency, as you would have for insider activity so that you have means to react to/investigate slander, libel, market manipulation. I think they generally don't trust the SEC to act in their interests and to pursue white collar crimes and they don't trust that the Capitol has their back when it comes the ultra wealthy amassing more wealth and deciding the rules and the rule makers and the rule enforcers.
Yes. You've pretty much nailed it. People are using short sellers as a scape goat. So fix the real problem - market manipulation. Short sellers aren't even 1% of the problem.
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"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
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Paingod
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Re: The Viral Economy

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noxiousdog wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:51 am Also, let's be clear: short selling did not almost destroy his business.
a highly-coordinated public relations and legal campaign against our company. Within months, press that ignored us began assailing us. We were sued over 100 times, and a federal government investigation was triggered that alarmed both our shareholders and customers causing real damage.
Slander and libel nearly destroyed his business.
Yes. The bullets that flew out of the gun nearly killed the business. It was hedge funds, though, that loaded the gun, aimed it, and pulled the trigger.
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noxiousdog
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by noxiousdog »

Paingod wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:19 pm
noxiousdog wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:51 am Also, let's be clear: short selling did not almost destroy his business.
a highly-coordinated public relations and legal campaign against our company. Within months, press that ignored us began assailing us. We were sued over 100 times, and a federal government investigation was triggered that alarmed both our shareholders and customers causing real damage.
Slander and libel nearly destroyed his business.
Yes. The bullets that flew out of the gun nearly killed the business. It was hedge funds, though, that loaded the gun, aimed it, and pulled the trigger.
That's not how it works.

But to use your analogy, the hedge funds would be ammo salesmen. They then incited a huge mob to buy a bunch of ammo and temporarily threaten the individual.
Black Lives Matter

"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Paingod »

noxiousdog wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:20 pmThey then incited a huge mob to buy a bunch of ammo and shoot the individual.
At least we can agree that what they did was immoral and illegal.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by noxiousdog »

Paingod wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:23 pm
noxiousdog wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:20 pmThey then incited a huge mob to buy a bunch of ammo and shoot the individual.
At least we can agree that what they did was immoral and illegal.
Yes. Slander, libel, and fraud are immoral and illegal.
Black Lives Matter

"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
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Paingod
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Paingod »

noxiousdog wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:24 pm
Paingod wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:23 pm
noxiousdog wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:20 pmThey then incited a huge mob to buy a bunch of ammo and shoot the individual.
At least we can agree that what they did was immoral and illegal.
Yes. Slander, libel, and fraud are immoral and illegal.
And in returning to my original point, they would also be good reasons for some people to dislike hedge funds.

My original statement was in retort to Kurth's anger over people disliking them and/or calling them "raiders"
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Re: The Viral Economy

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Paingod wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:27 pm
noxiousdog wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:24 pm
Paingod wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:23 pm
noxiousdog wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:20 pmThey then incited a huge mob to buy a bunch of ammo and shoot the individual.
At least we can agree that what they did was immoral and illegal.
Yes. Slander, libel, and fraud are immoral and illegal.
And in returning to my original point, they would also be good reasons for some people to dislike hedge funds.

My original statement was in retort to Kurth's anger over people disliking them and/or calling them "raiders"
There are somewhere between 10,000 and 15,000 hedge funds. The number of them that participate in shenanigans is tiny fraction of those.
Black Lives Matter

"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Paingod »

A small concentration of bad apples in a large group can still have a negative impact on how the group is perceived.
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Re: The Viral Economy

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Paingod wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:11 pm A small concentration of bad apples in a large group can still have a negative impact on how the group is perceived.
I don't think you are really suggesting that prejudice is justified?
Black Lives Matter

"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by RunningMn9 »

noxiousdog wrote:What is the actual impact from a hedge fund short selling... granting the real, but rare, situation of hostile takeovers?
As I thought that I stated, my issue isn’t with the momentary act of short-selling. My issue is with the market manipulation they engage in to insure that their negative bet pays off, regardless of the real factors affecting the company.

I’m not a fan of investors manipulating the market to make their bet come true (in either direction, whether temporary or permanent).

It’s a tool that hedge funds have (and use) that retail investors don’t.

And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by noxiousdog »

RunningMn9 wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:13 pm
noxiousdog wrote:What is the actual impact from a hedge fund short selling... granting the real, but rare, situation of hostile takeovers?
As I thought that I stated, my issue isn’t with the momentary act of short-selling. My issue is with the market manipulation they engage in to insure that their negative bet pays off, regardless of the real factors affecting the company.

I’m not a fan of investors manipulating the market to make their bet come true (in either direction, whether temporary or permanent).

It’s a tool that hedge funds have (and use) that retail investors don’t.
I'm definitely for cracking down on market manipulation.
Black Lives Matter

"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
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Re: The Viral Economy

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News said not a single Republican voted for the stimulus package. They are also fighting minimum wage. They rake in money like candy and they deny $15 to everyone else.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Carpet_pissr »

noxiousdog wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:36 pm
Paingod wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:27 pm
noxiousdog wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:24 pm
Paingod wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:23 pm
noxiousdog wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:20 pmThey then incited a huge mob to buy a bunch of ammo and shoot the individual.
At least we can agree that what they did was immoral and illegal.
Yes. Slander, libel, and fraud are immoral and illegal.
And in returning to my original point, they would also be good reasons for some people to dislike hedge funds.

My original statement was in retort to Kurth's anger over people disliking them and/or calling them "raiders"
There are somewhere between 10,000 and 15,000 hedge funds. The number of them that participate in shenanigans is tiny fraction of those.
I'd love for you to show your work on that claim, if you can. And while you're at it, please also define "shenanigans" - are those illegal acts, or just morally distasteful? I mean that seriously, because IMO that is a big part of the problem (other than the fact that the SEC (certainly recently) is in a coma apparently, bc they aren't enforcing SHIT, or even pretending to do their job lately - Elon Musk, anyone?).
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Daehawk wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 5:27 pm News said not a single Republican voted for the stimulus package. They are also fighting minimum wage. They rake in money like candy and they deny $15 to everyone else.
Welcome to America, I see you're new here! Of course they are...they got theirs already, everyone else who didn't, can eat a dick. As a dirty poor, (and probably liberal hippy, Socialist pig), at some point, since you DON'T have yours, and they DO, you will be coming after THEIRS (and their guns). That cannot happen.

Really, of all the planks in the Republican platform, that one is perhaps the worst IMO...just the blatant, ugly selfishness, which informs so many of the other planks. It's more like a central theme I guess, than a plank. Sure, parade it around as "individual responsibility" all you want, but I'm onto you wankers, just like I am with your other iniquities parading as noble sounding phrases like "state's rights", and "election security".
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by noxiousdog »

Carpet_pissr wrote:
noxiousdog wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:36 pm
Paingod wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:27 pm
noxiousdog wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:24 pm
Paingod wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:23 pm
noxiousdog wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:20 pmThey then incited a huge mob to buy a bunch of ammo and shoot the individual.
At least we can agree that what they did was immoral and illegal.
Yes. Slander, libel, and fraud are immoral and illegal.
And in returning to my original point, they would also be good reasons for some people to dislike hedge funds.

My original statement was in retort to Kurth's anger over people disliking them and/or calling them "raiders"
There are somewhere between 10,000 and 15,000 hedge funds. The number of them that participate in shenanigans is tiny fraction of those.
I'd love for you to show your work on that claim, if you can. And while you're at it, please also define "shenanigans" - are those illegal acts, or just morally distasteful? I mean that seriously, because IMO that is a big part of the problem (other than the fact that the SEC (certainly recently) is in a coma apparently, bc they aren't enforcing SHIT, or even pretending to do their job lately - Elon Musk, anyone?).
Elon Musk was investigated and penalized.
Black Lives Matter

"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Carpet_pissr »

noxiousdog wrote:
Carpet_pissr wrote:
noxiousdog wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:36 pm
Paingod wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:27 pm
noxiousdog wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:24 pm
Paingod wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:23 pm
noxiousdog wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:20 pmThey then incited a huge mob to buy a bunch of ammo and shoot the individual.
At least we can agree that what they did was immoral and illegal.
Yes. Slander, libel, and fraud are immoral and illegal.
And in returning to my original point, they would also be good reasons for some people to dislike hedge funds.

My original statement was in retort to Kurth's anger over people disliking them and/or calling them "raiders"
There are somewhere between 10,000 and 15,000 hedge funds. The number of them that participate in shenanigans is tiny fraction of those.
I'd love for you to show your work on that claim, if you can. And while you're at it, please also define "shenanigans" - are those illegal acts, or just morally distasteful? I mean that seriously, because IMO that is a big part of the problem (other than the fact that the SEC (certainly recently) is in a coma apparently, bc they aren't enforcing SHIT, or even pretending to do their job lately - Elon Musk, anyone?).
Elon Musk was investigated and penalized.
$20 million?! LOL. Or are you referring to his having to let his nanny check his phone before he hits ‘send’ on tweets? More importantly, hasn’t changed his behavior.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by noxiousdog »

Which law did he break again?
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"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Jaymann »

noxiousdog wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:35 pm Which law did he break again?
Gravity?
Jaymann
]==(:::::::::::::>
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Paingod »

noxiousdog wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:35 pmWhich law did he break again?
Being "Lawful Evil" doesn't remove the "Evil" part. There are many, many ways a person can be morally bankrupt and socially repugnant without doing anything illegal. Legality is a poor gauge of morality.
Last edited by Paingod on Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by noxiousdog »

Paingod wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:48 am
noxiousdog wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:35 pmWhich law did he break again?
Being "Lawful Evil" doesn't remove the "Evil" part.
What's the evil part again?

I'm beginning to think it's doing anything Paingod doesn't understand or approve of.
Black Lives Matter

"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Paingod »

noxiousdog wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:51 am
Paingod wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:48 am
noxiousdog wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:35 pmWhich law did he break again?
Being "Lawful Evil" doesn't remove the "Evil" part.
What's the evil part again?
That's a pretty vague question. I mean, in broad strokes you could say that a lot of what the GOP has been doing is "evil" in some ways, falling in lock-step behind a man who wanted to throw democracy out the window. There's no "greater good" in their minds except to stay in power. It's all perfectly legal, but also reprehensible.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by noxiousdog »

Paingod wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:59 am
noxiousdog wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:51 am
Paingod wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:48 am
noxiousdog wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:35 pmWhich law did he break again?
Being "Lawful Evil" doesn't remove the "Evil" part.
What's the evil part again?
That's a pretty vague question. I mean, in broad strokes you could say that a lot of what the GOP has been doing is "evil" in some ways, falling in lock-step behind a man who wanted to throw democracy out the window. There's no "greater good" in their minds except to stay in power. It's all perfectly legal, but also reprehensible.
The questions were referring to Elon Musk.

The GOP has done plenty of law breaking and plenty of evil.
Black Lives Matter

"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
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The Viral Economy

Post by Carpet_pissr »

noxiousdog wrote:Which law did he break again?
lhim, and I don’t own Tesla stock. I certainly pldon’t view him as ‘evil’ (partly bc as mentioned, I really don’t follow him closely).

My bone is not with him at all, it’s with the lax, weak and inconsistent enforcement of SEC regulations that are currently on the books, flawed and full of loopholes as they are.

Let me ask you this: do you think Trump’s tweets and speech incited the crowd at the Capital on Jan 6?
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The Viral Economy

Post by Carpet_pissr »

noxiousdog wrote:
RunningMn9 wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:13 pm
noxiousdog wrote:What is the actual impact from a hedge fund short selling
As I thought that I stated, my issue isn’t with the momentary act of short-selling. My issue is with the market manipulation they engage in
I'm definitely for cracking down on market manipulation.
So we agree! This was my primary point in the whole Elon Musk ...ramble.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by LordMortis »

I *do* think Musk's use of Twitter is often sleazy and does manipulate markets. I don't know if that's his intent. I wouldn't want laws against it specifically but I would use that evidence to look in to other relationships with the market, much like I would when Trump was POTUS. POTUS holding a position of legal power, and proclaiming tweets as official channels, I do think there should be laws, if there aren't already. Again, while I think the Musk and POTUS use of mass (social) media is, quite frankly, immoral, the real problem (I suspect, I'm very much ignorant of larger SEC machinations) would be the legal process just not finding .001% white criminal process worth going through. Yes, Musk, has lost millions in high profile investigations but to my knowledge the only investigation was in to his "funding achieved" tweet and that was one of???? The greater point of using Musk as an example is the perception that is too often shown to be more than just perception that three phases are bad and not getting better in environment where continues to accelerate its journey to the hands of the very few: Existing law, law making, and law enforcement.

http://octopusoverlords.com/forum/viewt ... =6&t=84770

Institutional (if that is the right word. Again ignorance) short sellers are in another basket.

I suspect its just a matter of time until we discover the 100s of SPACs (something I only learned of this year. Again ignorance) become another basket.

Being legal, doesn't make it virtuous not even amoral. I don't doubt that the wealthy spend [sagan]billions[/sagan] on finding and walking the line with the legal approach to find shitty ways to amass more wealth at the expense of others while contributing nothing.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by noxiousdog »

Carpet_pissr wrote:
noxiousdog wrote:Which law did he break again?
lhim, and I don’t own Tesla stock. I certainly pldon’t view him as ‘evil’ (partly bc as mentioned, I really don’t follow him closely).

My bone is not with him at all, it’s with the lax, weak and inconsistent enforcement of SEC regulations that are currently on the books, flawed and full of loopholes as they are.

Let me ask you this: do you think Trump’s tweets and speech incited the crowd at the Capital on Jan 6?
What a weird tangent.

Are you automatically assuming that someone that doesn't match in lockstep with the latter latest progressive view is a Trump supporter?

Of course Trump incited the riots.
Black Lives Matter

"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by LordMortis »

noxiousdog wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 7:37 pm Elon Musk was investigated and penalized.
So what about the Musk pimping bitcoin so highly and then filing that Tesla bought $1.5 in Bitcoin?

CNBC is suggesting this morning that was over 7.5% of their cash and equivalents in 2020 and that includes their capital raises through stock dilution.

You're right that I don't understand how it works but it smells rotten to me.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by noxiousdog »

LordMortis wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 9:11 am
noxiousdog wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 7:37 pm Elon Musk was investigated and penalized.
So what about the Musk pimping bitcoin so highly and then filing that Tesla bought $1.5 in Bitcoin?

CNBC is suggesting this morning that was over 7.5% of their cash and equivalents in 2020 and that includes their capital raises through stock dilution.

You're right that I don't understand how it works but it smells rotten to me.
Why would that be illegal? How is it different that GM pimping Sirius XM? Warren Buffett pimps Coke, American Express, and Apple while dogging gold all the time.

And to be fair, Musk is likely a true believer in bitcoin. He's clearly a technologist and internationalist. Just because you have a lot of followers doesn't mean you shouldn't have an opinion.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by LordMortis »

noxiousdog wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:40 am Why would that be illegal? How is it different that GM pimping Sirius XM? Warren Buffett pimps Coke, American Express, and Apple while dogging gold all the time.

And to be fair, Musk is likely a true believer in bitcoin. He's clearly a technologist and internationalist. Just because you have a lot of followers doesn't mean you shouldn't have an opinion.
I don't have an answer
You're right that I don't understand how it works but it smells rotten to me.
It smells wrong to me that TSLA can release 5 billion in stock, quietly purchase 1.5 billion in bitcoin, pimp bitcoin, and then announce by filing they have purchased 1.5 billion in bitcoin.
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Re: The Viral Economy

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LordMortis wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:57 am It smells wrong to me that TSLA can release 5 billion in stock, quietly purchase 1.5 billion in bitcoin, pimp bitcoin, and then announce by filing they have purchased 1.5 billion in bitcoin.
There are some rules about it, but it's based on certain thresholds. At least with stocks. Maybe not so much with currency.

I think the bigger issue is TSLA stockholders don't care.
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"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
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Re: The Viral Economy

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noxiousdog wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:31 am I think the bigger issue is TSLA stockholders don't care.
From this morning it appears, they care. To the MOON!!!! (Or perhaps Mars)
Tesla shares are trading higher amid the company announcing it purchased $1.5B of bitcoin.
Prev Close
852.23
Today's Open
869.67
Day's Range
861.70-877.77
$868.64
Day's Change
16.41 (1.92%)
1 Bitcoin equals
43,765.10 United States Dollar
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by noxiousdog »

I remember being that excited about Dell and JDS Uniphase. Cisco was too expensive for me though.
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Re: The Viral Economy

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LordMortis wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:57 am
noxiousdog wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:40 am Why would that be illegal? How is it different that GM pimping Sirius XM? Warren Buffett pimps Coke, American Express, and Apple while dogging gold all the time.

And to be fair, Musk is likely a true believer in bitcoin. He's clearly a technologist and internationalist. Just because you have a lot of followers doesn't mean you shouldn't have an opinion.
I don't have an answer
You're right that I don't understand how it works but it smells rotten to me.
It smells wrong to me that TSLA can release 5 billion in stock, quietly purchase 1.5 billion in bitcoin, pimp bitcoin, and then announce by filing they have purchased 1.5 billion in bitcoin.
Smells consistent to me.

Stupid -- I am not a bitcoin believer -- but consistent.
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Re: The Viral Economy

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Kurth wrote:Smells consistent to me.

Stupid -- I am not a bitcoin believer -- but consistent.
You think it’s stupid to spend $43,000 to buy nothing, with the hopes that you can convince someone tomorrow to pay you more than $43,000 for nothing?!?
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by LordMortis »

RunningMn9 wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:07 pm
Kurth wrote:Smells consistent to me.

Stupid -- I am not a bitcoin believer -- but consistent.
You think it’s stupid to spend $43,000 to buy nothing, with the hopes that you can convince someone tomorrow to pay you more than $43,000 for nothing?!?
Ahem, that's one full unit of nothing. You can a fraction of a unit or $1.5 billion in units of nothing. Though to be fair, a dollar expressed electronically is a unit of nothing that is backed by the US government.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Kurth »

LordMortis wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:13 pm
RunningMn9 wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:07 pm
Kurth wrote:Smells consistent to me.

Stupid -- I am not a bitcoin believer -- but consistent.
You think it’s stupid to spend $43,000 to buy nothing, with the hopes that you can convince someone tomorrow to pay you more than $43,000 for nothing?!?
Ahem, that's one full unit of nothing. You can a fraction of a unit or $1.5 billion in units of nothing. Though to be fair, a dollar expressed electronically is a unit of nothing that is backed by the US government.
This is kind of a big deal. 😀
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Kurth wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 5:12 pm
LordMortis wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:13 pm
RunningMn9 wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:07 pm
Kurth wrote:Smells consistent to me.

Stupid -- I am not a bitcoin believer -- but consistent.
You think it’s stupid to spend $43,000 to buy nothing, with the hopes that you can convince someone tomorrow to pay you more than $43,000 for nothing?!?
Ahem, that's one full unit of nothing. You can a fraction of a unit or $1.5 billion in units of nothing. Though to be fair, a dollar expressed electronically is a unit of nothing that is backed by the US government.
This is kind of a big deal. 😀
Except they're not, at least according to the US Treasury Department.
Federal Reserve notes are not redeemable in gold, silver or any other commodity, and receive no backing by anything This has been the case since 1933. The notes have no value for themselves, but for what they will buy. In another sense, because they are legal tender, Federal Reserve notes are "backed" by all the goods and services in the economy.
They backed only by the fact that people are willing to trade goods or services for them. Much like BTC or cases of beer.
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