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Re: The Viral Economy

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:23 pm
by malchior
YellowKing wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:00 pm FWIW, I've been hacked twice from swiping my debit card at the counter, but never by paying through my phone. In my personal track record, mobile is actually safer than paying at the register.

That said, to each his own. My mom still refuses to even buy anything online with a debit card.
If a place takes mobile payment, it is a safe bet that it has excellent security in place. It is probably low risk to pay in any form. If they don't take mobile then all bets are off.

In any case, I never pay using a debit card since even in fraud cases the money leaves your account pending an investigation. For me, my debit card exists to take cash out of an ATM and authenticate myself at the bank. That is the sole purpose of it. Credit cards in particular have much more protection and you have more time to fix it without worrying about bouncing a check.

Re: The Viral Economy

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:28 pm
by Kraken
Jaymann wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:21 pm
stessier wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:13 pm
Jaymann wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:50 pm Sorry, but I will never pay for anything through my phone. It is only a matter of time until the hackers start stealing.
Those stores use cameras to track your movements and what you take. The phone is just used for charging your account using NFC. It's like when you are able to tap your credit card instead of swiping it.
Understood. I just refuse to put any financial access on my phone. Credit cards can be handled if abused. Maybe I need a tin foil hat, but it only takes one breach to ruin your whole day.
Same. Recently I've been tempted to install my bank's app so that I can deposit checks by simply photographing them instead of using their germy ATM. Nearly all of my income is in the form of mailed paper checks. But in a good month I only get 3-4 at most. I reckon I can keep using the ATM.

Re: The Viral Economy

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:42 pm
by stessier
Once I started using my bank's check deposit feature, there was no way to go back. It's just too simple. The last time I went to the bank was 2018 when I bought my car and had to sign the loan papers. I carry zero cash in my wallet - just don't need it.

Re: The Viral Economy

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:55 pm
by LordMortis
malchior wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:23 pm In any case, I never pay using a debit card since even in fraud cases the money leaves your account pending an investigation. For me, my debit card exists to take cash out of an ATM and authenticate myself at the bank. That is the sole purpose of it. Credit cards in particular have much more protection and you have more time to fix it without worrying about bouncing a check.

This is me exactly. My CC company are very good at monitoring my activity and reporting it to me and they have not hesitated to cancel charges when fraud is afoot (which happens every few years). Debit cards for reasons I don't understand, probably related to ACH/Wire Transfer are much more of a pain to fix. I learned this lesson with AAA who continued to debit my accounts after it was closed and my bank told me if AAA doesn't fix the issue my only recourse was to close my account.

Re: The Viral Economy

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:09 pm
by Ralph-Wiggum
stessier wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:42 pm I carry zero cash in my wallet - just don't need it.
My parents would be very upset with you.

Re: The Viral Economy

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:20 pm
by coopasonic
Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:09 pm
stessier wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:42 pm I carry zero cash in my wallet - just don't need it.
My parents would be very upset with you.
Your parents would be justified. A little emergency cash is well advised. You never know.

Re: The Viral Economy

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:23 pm
by Max Peck
I still carry cash in my wallet. It is, however, the same cash that was in my wallet this time last year.

Re: The Viral Economy

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:29 pm
by LordMortis
Max Peck wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:23 pm I still carry cash in my wallet. It is, however, the same cash that was in my wallet this time last year.
Truth. It's probably been 18+ months since I visited and ATM and I'm not even close to empty. Since the Covid, I had to pay at the pump with cash once, bought a half dozen stamps, and paid cash for fast food maybe twice, and had to do $50 grocery shop in cash while waiting for CC replacement due to fraud. I coulda maybe used my debit card, but I am loathe to do so. I've literally never used it for anything but as ATM card.

Re: The Viral Economy

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:52 pm
by malchior
Max Peck wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:23 pm I still carry cash in my wallet. It is, however, the same cash that was in my wallet this time last year.
I had the same $300 on my money clip since last year. Last night I went to Home Depot to get some supplies and was having trouble getting my card out. I remembered the cash and just gave him $200 and then immediately regretted it as I was handed back useless change. I actually thought what the heck do I do with 12 cents. Cashless is so much better.

Re: The Viral Economy

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:08 pm
by YellowKing
I tend to fall on the "trust tech" end of the spectrum for most things. I'm willing to accept some amount of risk for convenience. I don't use cash, I do use debit. I've had my card breached twice in roughly 10 years. In both instances the bank caught it quickly, and I was back straight within a week. Yes, it was inconvenient at the time, but compared to the thousands of transactions over that time, it was a relatively minor inconvenience. Also both of those breaches were pre-chip readers - I haven't had one since that was widely implemented.

I also totally realize in the event of an apocalypse, I'm completely fucked compared to all the preppers out there, but so be it. When the time comes my mom can come tell me "I told you so" as she digs mason jars full of cash out of her back yard.

Re: The Viral Economy

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:09 pm
by ImLawBoy
I always like to have some cash on hand. The tooth fairy is not known for cashless transactions.

Re: The Viral Economy

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:27 pm
by Jaymann
ImLawBoy wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:09 pm I always like to have some cash on hand. The tooth fairy is not known for cashless transactions.
Talk about inflation! I used to get a quarter per tooth and my granddaughter just pulled down a twenty spot. Plus piggy banks are great for sucking up loose change.

Re: The Viral Economy

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:45 pm
by ImLawBoy
F that noise. $2/tooth is the going rate here. I've been known to buy something from the convenience store with cash to get singles.

Re: The Viral Economy

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:12 pm
by Z-Corn
The day I had the balls to ask my Mom if Santa was real was the day the Tooth Fairy AND The Easter Bunny quit being part of my life.

I still had teeth to donate!

Re: The Viral Economy

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:31 pm
by Jaymann
The three of them are in an insidious cabal.

Re: The Viral Economy

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:43 pm
by RunningMn9
Jaymann wrote:Sorry, but I will never pay for anything through my phone. It is only a matter of time until the hackers start stealing.
It’s safer than paying by credit card (in the US).

Re: The Viral Economy

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:50 pm
by malchior
YellowKing wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:08 pmI also totally realize in the event of an apocalypse, I'm completely fucked compared to all the preppers out there, but so be it. When the time comes my mom can come tell me "I told you so" as she digs mason jars full of cash out of her back yard.
Movies have told me I'll burn those dollars for heat since they'll be worthless paper anyway.

Re: The Viral Economy

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:26 pm
by LawBeefaroni
ImLawBoy wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:45 pm F that noise. $2/tooth is the going rate here. I've been known to buy something from the convenience store with cash to get singles.
We keep a roll of $1 coins on hand for tooth fairy duty.

Re: The Viral Economy

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:26 pm
by hitbyambulance
LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:26 pm We keep a roll of $1 coins on hand for tooth fairy duty.
fifty-cent pieces are more impressively sized, however
ImLawBoy wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:45 pm F that noise. $2/tooth is the going rate here. I've been known to buy something from the convenience store with cash to get singles.
in that case, you really should be leaving $2 bills

Re: The Viral Economy

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:41 pm
by Blackhawk
The worst part of shopping is, by far, the checkout. I'd shop all day. I actually enjoy it. Checking out? Ugh. Especially at Wal-Mart where they insist on only having one lane open most of the time, meaning a guaranteed 20 minute wait if a few people are making a big trip.
YellowKing wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:00 pm FWIW, I've been hacked twice from swiping my debit card at the counter, but never by paying through my phone. In my personal track record, mobile is actually safer than paying at the register.
A lot of that, like RFID theft, is super rare just because so few people do it. The cost of setting up the hack isn't worth the tiny number of people you'd snag. If it became more common, the hacks would become more common, too.

Re: The Viral Economy

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:09 pm
by Zarathud
Ask Gaetz how paying for everything with his app worked out.

At one point it was 6 months between ATM visits but I started with $200 in my wallet.

Re: The Viral Economy

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:31 pm
by gbasden
LordMortis wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:54 pm I am loath to put any financial data on my phone. Not sure what will change my aging and addled mind on this. The only reason I have a smart phone is because I was forced to take a work smart phone. It is not unreasonable to think I will retreat from such things when they are not required for work. We'll see how handy and how much of modern society I believe it to be necessary to have when that time comes. (I do like the idea of a checkoutless shopping experience)
I can conceptualize your feelings, but they are completely alien to me. Having a device thousands of times more powerful than my first desktop computer with access to all the worlds knowledge in my pocket is a childhood dream come true. I cannot fathom giving up a smartphone.

Re: The Viral Economy

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:07 pm
by ImLawBoy
hitbyambulance wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:26 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:26 pm We keep a roll of $1 coins on hand for tooth fairy duty.
fifty-cent pieces are more impressively sized, however
Find some old silver dollars and now we're talking.
hitbyambulance wrote:
ImLawBoy wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:45 pm F that noise. $2/tooth is the going rate here. I've been known to buy something from the convenience store with cash to get singles.
in that case, you really should be leaving $2 bills
What, you think the place I go to midweek to buy overpriced milk and bread (and sensibly priced beer!) is keeping a lot of $2 bills in the till?

Re: The Viral Economy

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:30 pm
by hitbyambulance
ImLawBoy wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:07 pm What, you think the place I go to midweek to buy overpriced milk and bread (and sensibly priced beer!) is keeping a lot of $2 bills in the till?
you have to go to the bank and withdraw some - usually they'll be in mint condition.

Re: The Viral Economy

Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:38 am
by Kraken
I have a $130 weekly grocery budget. When my spend comes in under $110, I take a $20 bill as change at checkout, because debit cards rule. Since I'm a pretty good shopper I tend to accumulate 20s. In the Before Times I accumulated grocery cash over the winter and spent it down over the summer. Since we're still in the During Times I can only accumulate, so I'm walking around with so much I feel like a Rockefeller.

Soon the farmers market will make those 20s disappear. Cash is the easiest way to pay the farmers, and one of our neighborhood breakfast restaurants only takes cash.

But yeah, coins are a PITA. We've got buckets of them. I was thinking of taking them to a Coinstar machine, but they're pushing Bitcoins now so I don't know about that. Goddam kids and their fake money.

Re: The Viral Economy

Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:16 am
by LordMortis
gbasden wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:31 pm I can conceptualize your feelings, but they are completely alien to me. Having a device thousands of times more powerful than my first desktop computer with access to all the worlds knowledge in my pocket is a childhood dream come true. I cannot fathom giving up a smartphone.
I'm plugged in too much. Having a computer at my fingers when I want a computer at fingers is good enough. 99% of the time and I can survive not being able to google a fact at moment's notice when a computer is not available. Especially when everyone else has their smart phone in their pocket.

The one drawback beyond no google 24/7 is that companies are adapting to ubiquitous smart phone possession and are stating to have it an expectation. So I am effectively locked out of many masse entertainment venues who actually only ticket by smart phone now. For me that's not something I care about. Beyond that, I don't want to collect aps and accounts on my phone to order food or get points purchasing gasoline or whatever.
Kraken wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:38 am I have a $130 weekly grocery budget. When my spend comes in under $110, I take a $20 bill as change at checkout, because debit cards rule. Since I'm a pretty good shopper I tend to accumulate 20s. In the Before Times I accumulated grocery cash over the winter and spent it down over the summer. Since we're still in the During Times I can only accumulate, so I'm walking around with so much I feel like a Rockefeller.

Soon the farmers market will make those 20s disappear. Cash is the easiest way to pay the farmers, and one of our neighborhood breakfast restaurants only takes cash.

But yeah, coins are a PITA. We've got buckets of them. I was thinking of taking them to a Coinstar machine, but they're pushing Bitcoins now so I don't know about that. Goddam kids and their fake money.
To not get charged for coinstar I have to.... go... into.... my credit union...

(I seem to case in a few hundred in coins ever decade or so though that's going down, down, down even as I don't remember a time when I was spending cash heavy over CC use. Maybe in the 90s?)

Re: The Viral Economy

Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:55 am
by ImLawBoy
hitbyambulance wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:30 pm
ImLawBoy wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:07 pm What, you think the place I go to midweek to buy overpriced milk and bread (and sensibly priced beer!) is keeping a lot of $2 bills in the till?
you have to go to the bank and withdraw some - usually they'll be in mint condition.
No chance. I'm not spoiling my kids like that. They'll get whatever grubby, wrinkled, grafitti-covered bills come from the register after I buy a six-pack, thank you.

Re: The Viral Economy

Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:12 am
by stessier
Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:09 pm
stessier wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:42 pm I carry zero cash in my wallet - just don't need it.
My parents would be very upset with you.
If I could get a digital driver's license, I wouldn't need my wallet at all!

I used to need cash for my kids' allowance, but I had them go digital by tracking everything in a spreadsheet two years ago. They always have instant access to how much they have and I don't have to worry about having cash to pay them off.

Re: The Viral Economy

Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:33 am
by Carpet_pissr
YellowKing wrote:When the time comes my mom can come tell me "I told you so" as she digs mason jars full of cash out of her back yard.
No need to worry about the scolding. As she’s foolishly, loudly and obviously digging up money from her backyard, with her back turned or worse, in a hole, the raiders/zombies/poison fog/mutants approach.

Always a hole in the preppers’ plans.

Re: The Viral Economy

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:12 pm
by Jaymann
Amazon squashes the unionization vote in Bessemer Alabama. :evil:

Re: The Viral Economy

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:17 pm
by malchior
Jaymann wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:12 pm Amazon squashes the unionization vote in Bessemer Alabama. :evil:
I'm completely unsurprised. They made a major error picking Alabama for this big fight.

Re: The Viral Economy

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:06 pm
by stessier
Jaymann wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:12 pm Amazon squashes the unionization vote in Bessemer Alabama. :evil:
I think that's a mischaracterization. The people didn't vote for the union. You could just as easily say the union utterly failed to make it's case.

Re: The Viral Economy

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:16 pm
by Holman
stessier wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:06 pm
Jaymann wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:12 pm Amazon squashes the unionization vote in Bessemer Alabama. :evil:
I think that's a mischaracterization. The people didn't vote for the union. You could just as easily say the union utterly failed to make it's case.
Or failed to overcome the veiled threats and pressure brought to bear on the workers.

This is a very old story.

Re: The Viral Economy

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:19 pm
by malchior
Holman wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:16 pm
stessier wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:06 pm
Jaymann wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:12 pm Amazon squashes the unionization vote in Bessemer Alabama. :evil:
I think that's a mischaracterization. The people didn't vote for the union. You could just as easily say the union utterly failed to make it's case.
Or failed to overcome the veiled threats and pressure brought to bear on the workers.

This is a very old story.
Or failed to overcome decades of deception and distortion about the true benefits and costs of unions by the GOP in one of the reddest states in the Union...

Re: The Viral Economy

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:38 pm
by LawBeefaroni
malchior wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:17 pm
Jaymann wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:12 pm Amazon squashes the unionization vote in Bessemer Alabama. :evil:
I'm completely unsurprised. They made a major error picking Alabama for this big fight.
RWSDU isn't shit in Union states. It was a [mis]calculated gamble.

They're also already crying sour grapes:
“Amazon has left no stone unturned in its efforts to gaslight its own employees. We won’t let Amazon’s lies, deception and illegal activities go unchallenged, which is why we are formally filing charges against all of the egregious and blatantly illegal actions taken by Amazon during the union vote. Amazon knew full well that unless they did everything they possibly could, even illegal activity, their workers would have continued supporting the union. That’s why they required all their employees to attend lecture after lecture, filled with mistruths and lies, where workers had to listen to the company demand they oppose the union. That’s why they flooded the internet, the airwaves and social media with ads spreading misinformation. That’s why they brought in dozens of outsiders and union-busters to walk the floor of the warehouse. That’s why they bombarded people with signs throughout the facility and with text messages and calls at home. And that’s why they have been lying about union dues in a right to work state. Amazon’s conduct has been despicable.

Re: The Viral Economy

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:02 pm
by Jaymann
True, the unionists failed to overcome the full billionaire pressure brought to bear by Bezos. I still buy shit from him, so it goes.

Re: The Viral Economy

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:54 pm
by A nonny mouse
ImLawBoy wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:09 pm I always like to have some cash on hand. The tooth fairy is not known for cashless transactions.
Ha! That was the first thing i though of at the top of this page. You don't have kids if you don't have some cash on hand. The tooth fairy just visited last night. $1 a tooth here.

Plus who the hell carries $300 with them? Lord. :shock:

Re: The Viral Economy

Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 1:28 am
by Zarathud
Strippers and blow aren’t cheap.

Re: The Viral Economy

Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 1:29 am
by gbasden
A nonny mouse wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:54 pm
ImLawBoy wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:09 pm I always like to have some cash on hand. The tooth fairy is not known for cashless transactions.
Ha! That was the first thing i though of at the top of this page. You don't have kids if you don't have some cash on hand. The tooth fairy just visited last night. $1 a tooth here.

Plus who the hell carries $300 with them? Lord. :shock:
I've been slowly whittling down the $400 I had in my wallet pre-covid. I think after 13 months I'm down to about $150? I probably need to refill at some point.

Re: The Viral Economy

Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:03 am
by Jaymann
Zarathud wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 1:28 am Strippers and blow aren’t cheap.
And $300 will barely get you a taste.