Fundraising for 2020/2021: Currently at $1580. Fundraising has begun, see the global post for options. Paypal Donation Links US dollars CDN Dollars

Police Reform in America

For discussion of religion and politics

Moderators: LawBeefaroni, $iljanus

User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 49014
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, where we only use the old smilies
LawBeefaroni OO’s avatar
Loading…

Re: Police Reform in America

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Defund Prosecutors.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT

User avatar
Holman
Posts: 23527
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Approximately Wissahickon

Re: Police Reform in America

Post by Holman »

Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 49014
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, where we only use the old smilies
LawBeefaroni OO’s avatar
Loading…

Re: Police Reform in America

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Holman wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:28 pm
Ice Cube is not the best champion for these times.
This is going to be a mess.


I will say that Farrakahn is total trash and Cube following him is a huge disappointment.

" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT

malchior
Posts: 12207
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: Police Reform in America

Post by malchior »

Trump sends Federal troops into Portland. They quickly almost kill someone.

Warning: Direct video below but is pretty rough on the ears. It gets loud.




User avatar
Unagi
Posts: 18803
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:14 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Police Reform in America

Post by Unagi »

How on earth will they justify that 'shot'.

:x

User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 49014
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, where we only use the old smilies
LawBeefaroni OO’s avatar
Loading…

Re: Police Reform in America

Post by LawBeefaroni »

What was it? Beanbag? Pepperball? Seems like an extreme distance for a less lethal, no way it should have been used regardless of the justification. That is exactly why you don't over use less lethal, people tend to think they're harmless so they'll pop them off when not indicated because, what's the harm?



Edit: few other observations. Much of th damage may have been from head hitting pavement and/or speaker landing on his head. Not to minimize culpability, just noting that it wouldn't take a very damaging projectile to cause the fractures.

Also, the guy filming or whoever it was shouting, "Throw it back" talks a big game telling the guy on the line what to do but got the fuck out of there very quickly when the guy went down. If they had 5 or 10 guys standing with him, maybe they don't take the pot shot. Again, not to minimize culpability of the federal agents, just an observation.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT

malchior
Posts: 12207
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: Police Reform in America

Post by malchior »

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:03 am
What was it? Beanbag? Pepperball? Seems like an extreme distance for a less lethal, no way it should have been used regardless of the justification. That is exactly why you don't over use less lethal, people tend to think they're harmless so they'll pop them off when not indicated because, what's the harm?
The belief is 'impact munition' aka rubber bullet which is why the guy has a fractured skull and brain bleed going.

User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 49014
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, where we only use the old smilies
LawBeefaroni OO’s avatar
Loading…

Re: Police Reform in America

Post by LawBeefaroni »

malchior wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:06 am
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:03 am
What was it? Beanbag? Pepperball? Seems like an extreme distance for a less lethal, no way it should have been used regardless of the justification. That is exactly why you don't over use less lethal, people tend to think they're harmless so they'll pop them off when not indicated because, what's the harm?
The belief is 'impact munition' aka rubber bullet which is why the guy has a fractured skull and brain bleed going.
Impact munutions are a wide class that includes rubber bullets but also beam bags, dowels, etc. It did look and sound like a rubber bullet though.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT

malchior
Posts: 12207
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: Police Reform in America

Post by malchior »

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:14 am
malchior wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:06 am
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:03 am
What was it? Beanbag? Pepperball? Seems like an extreme distance for a less lethal, no way it should have been used regardless of the justification. That is exactly why you don't over use less lethal, people tend to think they're harmless so they'll pop them off when not indicated because, what's the harm?
The belief is 'impact munition' aka rubber bullet which is why the guy has a fractured skull and brain bleed going.
Impact munutions are a wide class that includes rubber bullets but also beam bags, dowels, etc. It did look and sound like a rubber bullet though.
Yeah and it seems doubtful that it so happened to hit him directly after he moved the munition and you can also assume that officer knows you aren't supposed to aim at the face. That should be a crime if it isn't.

malchior
Posts: 12207
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: Police Reform in America

Post by malchior »


User avatar
Enough
Posts: 14401
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:05 pm
Location: Serendipity
Contact:

Re: Police Reform in America

Post by Enough »

Was just coming to post that. We are so boned right now.
My blog (mostly photos): Fort Ephemera - My Flickr Photostream

“You only get one sunrise and one sunset a day, and you only get so many days on the planet. A good photographer does the math and doesn’t waste either.” ―Galen Rowell

User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 49014
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, where we only use the old smilies
LawBeefaroni OO’s avatar
Loading…

Re: Police Reform in America

Post by LawBeefaroni »

For whatever it's worth, that's the sergeants union, different than the rank and file union. Not that it's necessarily less of a problem there. But they are different unions.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT

malchior
Posts: 12207
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: Police Reform in America

Post by malchior »

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 6:22 pm
For whatever it's worth, that's the sergeants union, different than the rank and file union. Not that it's necessarily less of a problem there. But they are different unions.
Sure but they are all mostly pretty wretched. Here is the PBA President's twitter. And the NY PBA President was that douche whining about police disrespect. The video is horrible for the cop but that he pins the blame for the unrest and the crowd cheering on the *politicians* shows he is lost in the cop bubble.


User avatar
Remus West
Posts: 33302
Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 5:39 pm
Location: Not in Westland

Re: Police Reform in America

Post by Remus West »

malchior wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 6:55 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 6:22 pm
For whatever it's worth, that's the sergeants union, different than the rank and file union. Not that it's necessarily less of a problem there. But they are different unions.
Sure but they are all mostly pretty wretched. Here is the PBA President's twitter. And the NY PBA President was that douche whining about police disrespect. The video is horrible for the cop but that he pins the blame for the unrest and the crowd cheering on the *politicians* shows he is lost in the cop bubble.

I'd want to see what led up to their arresting the one guy before commenting but it seemed like it was mostly very bad behavior for the crowd. The guy that put the headlock on the cop was clearly in their way while they wrestled with the first guy, then he kicked something of the officer's away - no idea what it was but he clearly kicked something away from the officer. The guy filming was a complete ass as well deserves something for egging on the behavior.

I fully support BLM but that wasn't BLM, that was Blue Lives Do Not Matter. We do not correct centuries of abuse and systemic racism by flipping things to anarchy and abuse of the police. They do plenty wrong on their own.
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken

malchior
Posts: 12207
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: Police Reform in America

Post by malchior »

The crowd's reaction speaks for the disconnect between the police and the population. And even then, I agree the crowd is acting badly. The police have however to an extent brought this on themselves. So even if I wish people didn't act out that won't happen while the police are still out of control in NY. People have completely had it with them there. Daily marchs are happening. We've seen some protesters flat out start attacking the police. And we can't forget the police are habitually attacking protesters. It is a cycle of violence at this point.

And that definitely isn't the politicians fault to a large extent. DeBlasio has enabled the bad behavior by trying to ignore and minimize it but to be fair when he started to push back on them he quickly found out that the NYPD only works for itself. They are blatantly ignoring political orders. For example, many refuse to wear masks. The police union leadership is constantly stirring up trouble and they are doing petty things to agitate. That is what I'm referring to. They are a bigger problem than that crowd that got out of hand.

malchior
Posts: 12207
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: Police Reform in America

Post by malchior »

I am watching a police reform hearing on in the House Natural Resources committee waiting for the Judiciary Hearing that Bill Barr is to speak at. That hearing has been delayed because Nadler was in a car accident.

In any case, Acting Chief of the Park Police Gregory Monahan is being questioned by several Congressmen on the Natural Resources committee. I have little faith he isn't flat out lying to Congress. He claims that the clearing of Lafayette Park was completely unconnected to the Presidential photo op at St. John's. He claimed that they had contractors waiting to install a fence and they were wracking up overtime. He claimed the protest was violent though no officer was injured until the clearing operation. A few of the Congressmen really dug into the time line and he became evasive to even simple framing questions. The clearing operation radio communications just so happened to not be recorded because of a 'configuration error' in the radio system that went back two years. My greatest moment of frustration was wondering why the Congresswoman asking about this didn't dig into further into it. Though I suspect she didn't understand the technical nature of the issue. Meanwhile the Republicans are being the jackasses you know and love.

malchior
Posts: 12207
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: Police Reform in America

Post by malchior »

There are reports that NYPD rolled up on a peaceful march and snatched an organizer off the street in an unmarked van.



Edit: Another take



Edit 2: Here is the NYPD take on the incident. A water bottle did roll towards them. It did seem pretty threatening. The rocks though...total bullshit. They appear to be just lying.


User avatar
Max Peck
Posts: 8418
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:09 pm
Location: Down the Rabbit-Hole

Re: Police Reform in America

Post by Max Peck »

George Floyd: US protesters charged as 'gang' face life sentence
Protesters in Utah who splashed paint on a prosecutor's office could be given life sentences after they were accused of acting as a "gang".

Salt Lake City District Attorney Sim Gill, whose office was targeted by Black Lives Matter marchers issued the charges.

Critics, including the city's mayor, have called the felony charges excessive.

The paint splashing occurred during a 9 July protest against racism.

According to Utah's criminal code, the "gang enhancements" felonies Mr Gill filed are applied to "offences committed in concert with two or more person or in relation to a criminal street gang".

In effect, prosecutors are "calling participants in a protest gang members," a lawyer for the American Civil Liberties Union told AP.

Mr Gill, a Democrat who says he declined to charge other Black Lives Matters protesters for curfew violations, downplayed the potential serious life sentence such charges carry. He did not think "anyone is going to be going to prison on this," he said. Plea deals are said to be often used in cases such as these to avoid a full sentence.
Time and tide melt the snowman.

There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, where the sea's asleep and the rivers dream, people made of smoke and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice and somewhere else the tea is getting cold. Come on, Ace, we've got work to do.
-- The Doctor

malchior
Posts: 12207
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: Police Reform in America

Post by malchior »

NYPD is still wildly out of control. A BLM organizer was going to be charged with 2nd degree assault for allegedly blasting an officer in the ear with a megaphone. The kicker? It happened two months ago. They decided to storm his apartment building with over a dozen officers, helicopter support, the officers were in tactical gear including carrying riot shields, they brought at least one dog, and closed the entire block off. Protesters appeared and made such a scene that the police left. They arrested him later and once arraigned, the DA asked for the charge to be reduced to a misdemeanor, assailed the police for overreacting and escalating the situation, and asked for the judge to release him immediately which the judge agreed to.


malchior
Posts: 12207
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: Police Reform in America

Post by malchior »

They didn't just arrest them. They had multiple officers leveling weapons at them.


User avatar
Little Raven
Posts: 7395
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:26 am
Location: Austin, TX

Re: Police Reform in America

Post by Little Raven »

Austin decides to put its money where its mouth is.
The Austin City Council unanimously voted to cut its police department budget by $150 million on Thursday, after officers and the city’s top cop faced months of criticism over the killing of an unarmed Black and Hispanic man, the use of force against anti-police brutality protesters and the investigation of a demonstrator’s fatal shooting by another citizen.

Those criticisms coincided with protests across Texas and the country calling for reforms on police tactics and the “defunding” of law enforcement in favor of redistributing funds to social services and alternative public safety programs. The council's move makes Austin the first of Texas' four biggest cities to drastically cut police department funding. The share of the police department budget that was cut is among the largest percentage decreases in the nation this year.
It'll be interesting to see how this shakes out.
/. "She climbed backwards out her
\/ window into Outside Over There."

User avatar
Blackhawk
Posts: 29298
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:48 pm
Location: Southwest Indiana
Contact:
Blackhawk’s avatar
Loading…

Re: Police Reform in America

Post by Blackhawk »

In order to work, cutting police funding has to be coordinated with funding the programs that will make police need less money.
________________________________________
A last hope

User avatar
ImLawBoy
Forum Admin
Posts: 12492
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:49 pm
Location: Chicago, IL
Contact:

Re: Police Reform in America

Post by ImLawBoy »

Blackhawk wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 4:36 pm
In order to work, cutting police funding has to be coordinated with funding the programs that will make police need less money.
Yes, and I'm thinking that the police funding needs to remain relatively stable for the time being until you get these other programs in place. There are some items that might be able to shift more easily (response to non-emergency situations, for example), but I thought one of the key aims of "Defund the Police" was to invest in social programs and education that will lessen the need for a strong police force. If you just massively cut police funding without giving that time to work, it could lead to bigger problems.
That's my purse! I don't know you!

User avatar
Blackhawk
Posts: 29298
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:48 pm
Location: Southwest Indiana
Contact:
Blackhawk’s avatar
Loading…

Re: Police Reform in America

Post by Blackhawk »

Yeah, you have to put in the new supports before you knock down the old ones. Not the other way around.
________________________________________
A last hope

User avatar
coopasonic
Posts: 17007
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 11:43 pm
Location: Dallas-ish
coopasonic’s avatar
Loading…

Re: Police Reform in America

Post by coopasonic »

ImLawBoy wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 4:45 pm
Blackhawk wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 4:36 pm
In order to work, cutting police funding has to be coordinated with funding the programs that will make police need less money.
Yes, and I'm thinking that the police funding needs to remain relatively stable for the time being until you get these other programs in place. There are some items that might be able to shift more easily (response to non-emergency situations, for example), but I thought one of the key aims of "Defund the Police" was to invest in social programs and education that will lessen the need for a strong police force. If you just massively cut police funding without giving that time to work, it could lead to bigger problems.

From the article:
These immediate cuts would include eliminating funding from three planned police cadet classes and reallocating funds to areas like violence prevention, food access and abortion access programs.

...Another $80 million in cuts would come from a yearlong process that will redistribute money used for civilian functions like forensic sciences, support services and victims’ services to other departments. About $50 million would come from reallocating dollars to a “Reimagine Safety Fund” that would divert money toward “alternative forms of public safety and community support through the yearlong reimagining process.”
-Coop

User avatar
ImLawBoy
Forum Admin
Posts: 12492
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:49 pm
Location: Chicago, IL
Contact:

Re: Police Reform in America

Post by ImLawBoy »

You can't expect me to read the articles, damnit!
That's my purse! I don't know you!

User avatar
coopasonic
Posts: 17007
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 11:43 pm
Location: Dallas-ish
coopasonic’s avatar
Loading…

Re: Police Reform in America

Post by coopasonic »

ImLawBoy wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 4:56 pm
You can't expect me to read the articles, damnit!
It's OK sir, that is why I read the article and provided the relevant information for your needs sir. Thank you sir.
-Coop

User avatar
ImLawBoy
Forum Admin
Posts: 12492
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:49 pm
Location: Chicago, IL
Contact:

Re: Police Reform in America

Post by ImLawBoy »

coopasonic wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 4:57 pm
ImLawBoy wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 4:56 pm
You can't expect me to read the articles, damnit!
It's OK sir, that is why I read the article and provided the relevant information for your needs sir. Thank you sir.
/Tosses a quarter at coop
That's my purse! I don't know you!

User avatar
Brian
Posts: 11414
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 8:51 am
Location: South of Heaven
[OO] Brian’s avatar
Loading…

Re: Police Reform in America

Post by Brian »

Toss a coin to your Coopa, oh valley of plenty!
"Don't believe everything you read on the internet." - Abraham Lincoln

User avatar
Smoove_B
Posts: 42788
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
Location: Kaer Morhen

Re: Police Reform in America

Post by Smoove_B »

Huh. Didn't see this coming. I guess this is why he was commenting about NY being in play.


The New York Police Benevolent Association (@NYCPBA) endorses Trump, a first for the union which represents over 50,000 active and retired New York City police officers

User avatar
Dave Allen
Posts: 781
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:12 am
Location: New London, CT

Re: Police Reform in America

Post by Dave Allen »

ImLawBoy wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 4:45 pm
...I thought one of the key aims of "Defund the Police" was to invest in social programs and education that will lessen the need for a strong police force.
Take that $150 million and offer a free smart gun and firearms training to every non-violent Austin taxpayer.
Jesus said, "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body."[Matt 10:28] God can totally destroy us.

Jesus also said, "For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”[John 6:40] Eternal life is conditional.

His disciple John wrote, "Whoever has the Son has eternal life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have eternal life. [1 John 5:12] Eternal life is optional.

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 66149
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Loading…

Re: Police Reform in America

Post by Isgrimnur »

Of the 143 guns possessed by mass shooters since 1982, 75% were obtained legally.

malchior
Posts: 12207
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: Police Reform in America

Post by malchior »

Smoove_B wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:35 pm
Huh. Didn't see this coming. I guess this is why he was commenting about NY being in play.
Not sure if sarcasm or not. :)

Post Reply