Police Reform in America

[Combustible Lemur]

Where and when is the march and protest over this?

I'm confused (or you are) - who (what body) would one protest against here?

The police, government, community leaders.
You know, all of those responsible for the endless violence in the cities neighborhoods.
They are obviously not doing their jobs. Where is the outcry?

Your inability to think through this statement is both offensive and bewildering naive for someone who's "just asking questions."

No I don't know you. But I'll tell you a little more about the people in my life who your comments turn into props.

Young men and women who make careers in the military.
That find out at eighteen they're no actually American citizens and get told instead of joining the army or accepting their college scholarship their going to get ripped from their parents and family and sent to a country they don't know. Because this guy that you don't think warrants our vitriol hired a known fascist to run his immigration policy.
The men and women who graduate and come back and teach in their neighborhood.
Those that are so fucking tired of the violence and poverty, they run as far as they can and vote as much as they can.
The local cops who struggle with a culture of violence and watch gangs tear apart their families' communities while trying to remain positive and protective.
The politicians that may be flawed people, but that have 50 and 60 years in the neighborhoods you're suggesting they protest instead of engage in. Because WHAT?


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[hepcat]

Is this seriously how you compose thoughts in your head?

14 people killed and 90 wounded over 1 weekend.
What should my thoughts about that be?

That it's a tragedy, and not an opportunity to trivialize or delegitimize any effort to address systemic racism and/or police brutality through protests? I mean, that's what someone without an agenda would do, at least.

[stimpy]

Is this seriously how you compose thoughts in your head?

14 people killed and 90 wounded over 1 weekend.
What should my thoughts about that be?

That it's a tragedy, and not an opportunity to trivialize or delegitimize any effort to address systemic racism and/or police brutality through protests? I mean, that's what someone without an agenda would do, at least.

Please quote where I do either of those things? The only thing I've said that even comes close is that I'd prefer to not mix politics and sports. ANY POLITICS, not exclusively just that which has to do with racism. Have I said anything about them removal of images from products or cartoons or statues or that they shouldn't protest or march or speak their minds or to demand reform? No....I haven't. I have a preference and for that I'm labeled a raging racist? That bar must be set real, real, low.
I'll wait...…..but I have to say it's getting old waiting for those of you who love to throw conjecture and accusations around to actually…..you know......back it up.

[Combustible Lemur]

The people you mentioned are ‘them’

And wow. Talk about deflecting.

You turn this thread into: ‘Why don’t you guys protest the violence in the city too’.

I’m sure you are someone who would interrupt MLK with, “I had a dream last night too!”

Are you saying that police reform is not necessary to stem the flow of violence in the city?

Again with your black and white trolling absolutism.

The last month of protests IS the protest for Chicago. Except that the country doesn't give a fuck unless it's shoved in their face.
Outreach, protests meetings, happen all the time. Then suburban voters buy police departments APC'S to roll into black neighborhoods, frisk, and or arrest everyone because we all know a good beating will fix crime. We defund fund welfare, and public Healthcare. We create food deserts, red lining neighborhoods, sub prime loans, gerrymandered districts, close polling stations, create prison pipelines. But oh shit none of that exists until someone's IPhone records a cop murdering someone for 9 minutes over and over and over again.
Fuck your self righteous bullshit.
Yes we should do more. I worked a decade in an inner city school tryjng to help. What the fuck do you do to help. Vote republican? I lived in the neighborhood where white people don't go and talk shit about the good people who live there. My kids have been murdered across the street from one of those schools. Where making it pro in sports is one of the few ways kids get Out. Kids that you think should stand for their morals and quit on everyone who relies on them so you don't have to watch a man kneel on your sports channel in order to get people like you to pay attention to the fact that people who look like me have been reinforcing a social structure through apathy and misperception that gets them killed on the street for being black. Where kids are forced at the age of ten to do a cost benefit analysis if it's in their best interest to start slinging dope, and carrying a gun because their prospects appear so shitty.

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A lot of words but no answers.
You have no fucking clue who I am or what I stand for.
All because I don't fall in line with your way of thinking of how I should act or feel or post doesn't mean you know me.
Fuck MY self righteous bullshit?
No.....fuck yours.

I haven't passed judgement on any of you.
Say what you want. Do what you want. Feel what you want.
I've asked questions and because some of you don't like the questions or have answers, I've have been portrayed as a Trump loving racist.
Yet I'm self righteous? Give me a fucking break. Bunch of fucking hypocrites.

This is why people pile onto you. I directly answered you question. Which IS offensive. I told you about my life and shared a tiny window into the lives of the people your perspective tends to devalue.

Your response is to double down, be defensive, tell how you are better than us, not provide any actual information about yourself or your experience, and directly tell us that we're hypocrites.

"Just asking questions" without putting yourself into the question or at least acknowledging that those questions reflect an entire lifetime of a whole communities' experiences can be innappropriate and potentially dangerous.

Birtherism became famous by Trump just asking questions.

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[hepcat]

Is this seriously how you compose thoughts in your head?

14 people killed and 90 wounded over 1 weekend.
What should my thoughts about that be?

That it's a tragedy, and not an opportunity to trivialize or delegitimize any effort to address systemic racism and/or police brutality through protests? I mean, that's what someone without an agenda would do, at least.

Please quote where I do either of those things? The only thing I've said that even comes close is that I'd prefer to not mix politics and sports. ANY POLITICS, not exclusively just that which has to do with racism.
I'll wait...…..but I have to say it's getting old waiting for those of you who love to throw conjecture and accusations around to actually…..you know......back it up.

The "i'm just saying" defense doesn't really work, as Holman just pointed out.

[LawBeefaroni]

Is this seriously how you compose thoughts in your head?

14 people killed and 90 wounded over 1 weekend.
What should my thoughts about that be?

That it's a tragedy, and not an opportunity to trivialize or delegitimize any effort to address systemic racism and/or police brutality through protests? I mean, that's what someone without an agenda would do, at least.

Please quote where I do either of those things?
I'll wait...…..but I have to say it's getting old waiting for those of you who love to throw conjecture and accusations around to actually…..you know......back it up.

The fact that you asked where the protests were for the shootings shows they you do not understand what the protests were for. This is exactly the kind of shit they are protesting. Not merely police abuses but centuries of systematic, institutionalized racism and economic oppression.

[stimpy]

It's funny how quiet this forum is on racial inequality until something happens that attracts national attention.
Then you all are experts on the subject.
I've scrolled through the last few pages of threads here and nary a one about race relations.
Yet I'm the racist opportunist.

[Combustible Lemur]

It's funny how quiet this forum is on racial inequality until something happens that attracts national attention.
Then you all are experts on the subject.
I've scrolled through the last few pages of threads here and nary a one about race relations.
Yet I'm the racist opportunist.

Scroll harder.

While the majority white discussion board may not be the SJW bulwark of society. OO talks ad nauseum about just about everything. Race usually gets couched inside a more specific topic. Like schools, cops behaving badly, the drug war, presidency threads, why white people like elevator jazz so much.

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[Combustible Lemur]

[

The "i'm just saying" defense doesn't really work, as Holman just pointed out.

Holman? Do have me blocked?

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[hepcat]

To say that OO hasn't discussed racism before George Floyd's death is an out and out lie that is laughably easy to disprove.

[stessier]

It's funny how quiet this forum is on racial inequality until something happens that attracts national attention.

That's probably fair and something I personally don't feel great about. But it's not an easy subject to talk about and as I am white, it's very easy to ignore/ forget as time passes. I don't think it's fair to call out people for finally being activated for a cause though. Some people come to it sooner than others, but the important part is they come.

Then you all are experts on the subject.

I haven't seen anyone proclaim themselves an expert. I have seen many people repeat the things i have been learning as I've educated myself over the last three weeks or so.

I've scrolled through the last few pages of threads here and nary a one about race relations.
Yet I'm the racist opportunist.

What are you upset about? What would you have us do? You've dropped in a number of times to criticize but i haven't seen you state what you're looking (might have missed it, the was some skimming involved). Is it just to call people out? Or do you have something you'd like to see accomplished?

[LordMortis]

It's funny how quiet this forum is on racial inequality until something happens that attracts national attention.

That's probably fair and something I personally don't feel great about. But it's not an easy subject to talk about and as I am white, it's very easy to ignore/ forget as time passes. I don't think it's fair to call out people for finally being activated for a cause though. Some people come to it sooner than others, but the important part is they come.

Then you all are experts on the subject.

I haven't seen anyone proclaim themselves an expert. I have seen many people repeat the things i have been learning as I've educated myself over the last three weeks or so.

I've scrolled through the last few pages of threads here and nary a one about race relations.
Yet I'm the racist opportunist.

What are you upset about? What would you have us do? You've dropped in a number of times to criticize but i haven't seen you state what you're looking (might have missed it, the was some skimming involved). Is it just to call people out? Or do you have something you'd like to see accomplished?

1) The shame of only talking about things when there is a national spotlight is precisely why I supported Colin K and the fact that conversation has endured. And as we move from one national source of reporting on abuses to another the conversation refuses to be stifled. I support this. But yeah, I should find a way to do more.
2) I'm pretty far from an expert. I have no answers, only evolving understanding/empathy/sympathy, trying to find they people working on answers. Which goes back to my perception that the spotlight needs to continue shining. Quite the opposite of my position 20 years ago, where I insisted if we could all learn to ignore race then racism would fade away by generations not handing down their prejudices. It's pretty clear to me I was off base. The enduring spotlight is not an answer but it keeps us looking for one. It keeps us uncomfortable with who we are, to search for a better way to be civil and apparently someone like me needs to be uncomfortable to be part of (positive) change.

[Unagi]

Oh, we have a few clues.

Yeah....a regular bunch of Sherlock Gnomes around here.

It's pretty elementary.

You seem to hold an opinion, I mean we all do, right? But you sit there and dare anyone to quote it or find yours.

To say you haven't judged anyone here and then to turn around and call everyone hypocrites.

that was kinda golden.

[hepcat]

More importantly, was Stimpy paid by the studios to inject product placement into his post, instead of just using the public domain nomenclature Sherlock HOLMES?

[stimpy]

I love the attention, guys, I really, really do.
But my vanity only goes so far before I feel the need to remind you that this thread isn't about me or my beliefs or experiences.
If you must continue to make it about me, please go right ahead.
But just know it's starting to get a wee bit embarrassing to know my life and opinions matter that much to you guys.

[stimpy]

More importantly, was Stimpy paid by the studios to inject product placement into his post, instead of just using the public domain nomenclature Sherlock HOLMES?

Because that would be an insult to Mr Holmes.

[Alefroth]

Is this seriously how you compose thoughts in your head?

14 people killed and 90 wounded over 1 weekend.
What should my thoughts about that be?

That it's a tragedy, and not an opportunity to trivialize or delegitimize any effort to address systemic racism and/or police brutality through protests? I mean, that's what someone without an agenda would do, at least.

Please quote where I do either of those things? The only thing I've said that even comes close is that I'd prefer to not mix politics and sports. ANY POLITICS, not exclusively just that which has to do with racism. Have I said anything about them removal of images from products or cartoons or statues or that they shouldn't protest or march or speak their minds or to demand reform? No....I haven't. I have a preference and for that I'm labeled a raging racist? That bar must be set real, real, low.
I'll wait...…..but I have to say it's getting old waiting for those of you who love to throw conjecture and accusations around to actually…..you know......back it up.

Odd how so many are coming to the same conclusion about you.

[stimpy]

Is this seriously how you compose thoughts in your head?

14 people killed and 90 wounded over 1 weekend.
What should my thoughts about that be?

That it's a tragedy, and not an opportunity to trivialize or delegitimize any effort to address systemic racism and/or police brutality through protests? I mean, that's what someone without an agenda would do, at least.

Please quote where I do either of those things? The only thing I've said that even comes close is that I'd prefer to not mix politics and sports. ANY POLITICS, not exclusively just that which has to do with racism. Have I said anything about them removal of images from products or cartoons or statues or that they shouldn't protest or march or speak their minds or to demand reform? No....I haven't. I have a preference and for that I'm labeled a raging racist? That bar must be set real, real, low.
I'll wait...…..but I have to say it's getting old waiting for those of you who love to throw conjecture and accusations around to actually…..you know......back it up.

Odd how so many are coming to the same conclusion about you.

Mob mentality has a way of doing that......

[Isgrimnur]

[stimpy]

Yup

[Alefroth]

Is this seriously how you compose thoughts in your head?

14 people killed and 90 wounded over 1 weekend.
What should my thoughts about that be?

That it's a tragedy, and not an opportunity to trivialize or delegitimize any effort to address systemic racism and/or police brutality through protests? I mean, that's what someone without an agenda would do, at least.

Please quote where I do either of those things? The only thing I've said that even comes close is that I'd prefer to not mix politics and sports. ANY POLITICS, not exclusively just that which has to do with racism. Have I said anything about them removal of images from products or cartoons or statues or that they shouldn't protest or march or speak their minds or to demand reform? No....I haven't. I have a preference and for that I'm labeled a raging racist? That bar must be set real, real, low.
I'll wait...…..but I have to say it's getting old waiting for those of you who love to throw conjecture and accusations around to actually…..you know......back it up.

Odd how so many are coming to the same conclusion about you.

Mob mentality has a way of doing that......

Yep, always someone else's fault.

[stimpy]

Is this seriously how you compose thoughts in your head?

14 people killed and 90 wounded over 1 weekend.
What should my thoughts about that be?

That it's a tragedy, and not an opportunity to trivialize or delegitimize any effort to address systemic racism and/or police brutality through protests? I mean, that's what someone without an agenda would do, at least.

Please quote where I do either of those things? The only thing I've said that even comes close is that I'd prefer to not mix politics and sports. ANY POLITICS, not exclusively just that which has to do with racism. Have I said anything about them removal of images from products or cartoons or statues or that they shouldn't protest or march or speak their minds or to demand reform? No....I haven't. I have a preference and for that I'm labeled a raging racist? That bar must be set real, real, low.
I'll wait...…..but I have to say it's getting old waiting for those of you who love to throw conjecture and accusations around to actually…..you know......back it up.

Odd how so many are coming to the same conclusion about you.

Mob mentality has a way of doing that......

Yep, always someone else's fault.

Yup

[hepcat]

Well d'uh. It doesn't take a Sherlock Gnome to know that.

[stimpy]

Well d'uh. It doesn't take a Sherlock Gnome to know that.

Cha ching!!!

[stessier]

I love the attention, guys, I really, really do.
But my vanity only goes so far before I feel the need to remind you that this thread isn't about me or my beliefs or experiences.
If you must continue to make it about me, please go right ahead.
But just know it's starting to get a wee bit embarrassing to know my life and opinions matter that much to you guys.

I feel I asked some fair, unemotional questions allowing you to present a case. I've been reading the book So you want to talk about Race by Ijeoma Oluo - I'm ready to give it a try if you are.

[stimpy]

I love the attention, guys, I really, really do.
But my vanity only goes so far before I feel the need to remind you that this thread isn't about me or my beliefs or experiences.
If you must continue to make it about me, please go right ahead.
But just know it's starting to get a wee bit embarrassing to know my life and opinions matter that much to you guys.

I feel I asked some fair, unemotional questions allowing you to present a case. I've been reading the book So you want to talk about Race by Ijeoma Oluo - I'm ready to give it a try if you are.

Indeed you have.
I'm open to having a conversation that is free of judgement and unsubstantiated, preconceived notions.
(I'm sure that statement will bring forth judgement and unsubstantiated, preconceived notions).

[Unagi]

Where and when is the march and protest over this?

For example, stimpy.... I don't think anyone here was fooled into thinking you wondered where or when the march and protest over this was. (I know, super-duh, righ !?) but you actually hinge on this statement being honest.

Correct?

Which means you don't give a fuck shit about any of it... You're goal was in no ways to support the current concerns behind Police Reform - it was (so obvious to all of us) ONLY an attempt to try and dilute and undermine the spirit of the concept.

It's obvious. And we all see it.

[Unagi]

I love the attention, guys, I really, really do.
But my vanity only goes so far before I feel the need to remind you that this thread isn't about me or my beliefs or experiences.
If you must continue to make it about me, please go right ahead.
But just know it's starting to get a wee bit embarrassing to know my life and opinions matter that much to you guys.

I feel I asked some fair, unemotional questions allowing you to present a case. I've been reading the book So you want to talk about Race by Ijeoma Oluo - I'm ready to give it a try if you are.

Indeed you have.
I'm open to having a conversation that is free of judgement and unsubstantiated, preconceived notions.
(I'm sure that statement will bring forth judgement and unsubstantiated, preconceived notions).

But if it doesn't - please try and forge ahead and make your case anyhow. I'll stand by and let you try and forge your path with stessier... Let's see you do that.

[stimpy]

Where and when is the march and protest over this?

For example, stimpy.... I don't think anyone here was fooled into thinking you wondered where or when the march and protest over this was. (I know, super-duh, righ !?) but you actually hinge on this statement being honest.

Correct?

Which means you don't give a fuck shit about any of it... You're goal was in no ways to support the current concerns behind Police Reform - it was (so obvious to all of us) ONLY an attempt to try and dilute and undermine the spirit of the concept.

It's obvious. And we all see it.

It was a rhetorical question.
Had I known asking such a question would trigger you all so much, I would not have posed it.

What do you need to hear to let you sleep at night?
That you were right?
Fine....you were right. I'm a raging racist. And don't even get me started on them gays!!!!
There. All better now?

[stimpy]

I love the attention, guys, I really, really do.
But my vanity only goes so far before I feel the need to remind you that this thread isn't about me or my beliefs or experiences.
If you must continue to make it about me, please go right ahead.
But just know it's starting to get a wee bit embarrassing to know my life and opinions matter that much to you guys.

I feel I asked some fair, unemotional questions allowing you to present a case. I've been reading the book So you want to talk about Race by Ijeoma Oluo - I'm ready to give it a try if you are.

Indeed you have.
I'm open to having a conversation that is free of judgement and unsubstantiated, preconceived notions.
(I'm sure that statement will bring forth judgement and unsubstantiated, preconceived notions).

But if it doesn't - please try and forge ahead and make your case anyhow. I'll stand by and let you try and forge your path with stessier... Let's see you do that.

How magnanimous of you to allow stessier and I to have a conversation. I hope he appreciates it as much as I do.

[Unagi]

It was a veiled dare

[Holman]

[

The "i'm just saying" defense doesn't really work, as Holman just pointed out.

Holman? Do have me blocked?

Free points for me!!

[hepcat]

hmmm...could have sworn it was holman, but i was obviously wrong. still, the content of my post is still valid.

[malchior]

The national problem with our police culture is impossible to ignore. FWIW good on the officer who took a stand here. This comes shortly after the police there rioted against a violin vigil for the deceased. They literally surrounded a crowd of families in full riot gear and fired on them with 'pepper spray' because they claim someone tried to cross a police line.

[Grifman]

Here's what one county had already done when they defunded the police:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/05/us/cahoo ... index.html

Seems like a good start and it seems to have been relatively successful.

[WYBaugh]

Here's what one county had already done when they defunded the police:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/05/us/cahoo ... index.html

Seems like a good start and it seems to have been relatively successful.

That is a great idea!

[malchior]

3 officers went to the memorial for a black man killed by police last year in a choke hold incident. They took photos including one where one officer wrapped his arm around another to re-enact the choke hold and sent it to one of the officer's involved. That officer responded, 'haha'. Yeah laugh it up. Someone died! HILARIOUS. The interim police chief investigated and 4 of them are no longer on the force after 3 were fired and 1 resigned.

[malchior]

NYPD refuses to enforce failure of officers to appear for video interviews with the department review board.

[LawBeefaroni]

Spoiler:

ca. 2017

[malchior]

Monmouth County NJ prosecutors absolve officers for arresting reporter

This is an example about why we *can not* trust the authorities to investigate police misconduct in the current frame work. The prosecutor's report ignores evidence that the world saw and contravenes evidence that they included in the report. It is a complete sham. For example, the report says the reporter wasn't clearly identifiable as a reporter. A body cam shot released in the report showed the police-issued lanyard hanging around the reporter's neck and in the audio he says over and over he is a reporter. The report declares that the officer's had no way to know he was a reporter. Disgusting. This system is deplorable.

"While Monmouth County self-servingly concludes the actions of police were 'not an intentional infringement' of Mr. Martinez’s constitutional rights, Mr. Martinez was wearing a law enforcement-issued press badge when he was tackled, repeatedly identified himself to police as a reporter, was recording an incident of police violence against two teenagers when police targeted him and, remarkably, two of the officers happened to have their body cams turned off the whole time," Barday said in a statement.