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Let's play veepstakes!

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Kraken
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Let's play veepstakes!

Post by Kraken »

It'll be moot in a month or so, but who do you think will become the princess? Beau makes a good case for Duckworth, so I'll open with her.


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Re: Let's play veepstakes!

Post by gilraen »

I think I'm still leaning more toward Kamala Harris at this point, but this is like trying to predict the exact weather in 3 weeks. You have a general idea based on the season but a sudden atmospheric twist can throw you.

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Re: Let's play veepstakes!

Post by Kraken »

Pretend a free chalupa* is on the line.

*no actual chalupas will be harmed by this post, as I don't even know what one is.

Since I just bullied myself into making a prediction, I'll go with Harris as the expected choice.

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Re: Let's play veepstakes!

Post by Jaymann »

I voted for Warren, so I'm gonna go with...Harris.
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!

Post by El Guapo »

70% chance of Harris.

Duckworth at this point is maybe 2nd or 3rd best chance, I think.

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Re: Let's play veepstakes!

Post by Holman »

Speaking of Duckworth, noted patriot-hero Tucker Carlson has accused her of being a coward who doesn't really love America.

Let that sink in.
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!

Post by El Guapo »

Holman wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:58 am
Speaking of Duckworth, noted patriot-hero Tucker Carlson has accused her of being a coward who doesn't really love America.

Let that sink in.

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Re: Let's play veepstakes!

Post by Jaymann »

Wait a minute, I thought "melting pot" was a thing.
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!

Post by Unagi »

I'm pretty certain that from now on, the word heritage just means: racist legacy

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Re: Let's play veepstakes!

Post by El Guapo »

Unagi wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:18 pm
I'm pretty certain that from now on, the word heritage just means: racist legacy
I mean, I think it meant that a fair percentage of the time before now, too.

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Re: Let's play veepstakes!

Post by Unagi »

El Guapo wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:28 pm
Unagi wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:18 pm
I'm pretty certain that from now on, the word heritage just means: racist legacy
I mean, I think it meant that a fair percentage of the time before now, too.
It did, I'm certain - but I think it still tries to pretend it might mean 'history that's dear to your heart'.

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Re: Let's play veepstakes!

Post by Kraken »

So we're maybe a week away from finding out...do we still think it's Harris? Some of Biden's adviser/donors think she's too uppity.
Some remain bitter about her attacks on Biden during primary debates last year, saying they bring into question her loyalty to the former vice president. Others argue that she’s too ambitious and that she will be solely focused on becoming president herself.
Based purely on pundit chatter, I'd put it 50/50 between Harris and Rice.

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Re: Let's play veepstakes!

Post by Jaymann »

Uppity would probably not be my first choice of adjectives.
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!

Post by El Guapo »

Jaymann wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:22 pm
Uppity would probably not be my first choice of adjectives.
Just to be clear "uppity" is Kraken's description of the complaints, not anything attributed to a person in the article.

That said, the complaints in the article are pretty ridiculous - that she's ambitious and attacked Biden during a debate. Almost like she's someone who was running to become president.

Anyway, seems like the main contenders now are Harris, Duckworth, and Rice, with Harris probably still the favorite. I like her fine - competent, should help him more than she hurts him in the campaign. Rice I don't totally get - I think she'd be fine in office, but picking her is inviting all of the Chris Cillizza's of the world to write credulous articles on "unmasking" and spying on the Trump campaign.

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Re: Let's play veepstakes!

Post by Kraken »

El Guapo wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:47 pm
Jaymann wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:22 pm
Uppity would probably not be my first choice of adjectives.
Just to be clear "uppity" is Kraken's description of the complaints, not anything attributed to a person in the article.
Yeah, the nature of the complaints are about an uppity woman. I'm on Team Harris at this point because I already got burned once on Team Warren. :wink: I'm not a big fan, but I do think she could handle the top job.

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Re: Let's play veepstakes!

Post by El Guapo »

Kraken wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:57 am
El Guapo wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:47 pm
Jaymann wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:22 pm
Uppity would probably not be my first choice of adjectives.
Just to be clear "uppity" is Kraken's description of the complaints, not anything attributed to a person in the article.
Yeah, the nature of the complaints are about an uppity woman. I'm on Team Harris at this point because I already got burned once on Team Warren. :wink: I'm not a big fan, but I do think she could handle the top job.
A lot of it also seems to be Biden advisers being butthurt about Harris's attack on Biden in the first debate. It was a debate, get over it. Characterizing it as "disloyal" is absurd too. She was his opponent, what was she supposed to do? If she attacked him *now* that would be a valid complaint, but what, was she supposed to drop out in the first debate and endorse him or something?

I will say that Harris's shitty campaigning during the primary is arguably a red flag, but I assume that Team Biden would make sure that her sister isn't running the campaign.

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Re: Let's play veepstakes!

Post by gbasden »

El Guapo wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:47 pm
Anyway, seems like the main contenders now are Harris, Duckworth, and Rice, with Harris probably still the favorite. I like her fine - competent, should help him more than she hurts him in the campaign. Rice I don't totally get - I think she'd be fine in office, but picking her is inviting all of the Chris Cillizza's of the world to write credulous articles on "unmasking" and spying on the Trump campaign.
I'm with you on Rice. I'm also not a fan of Harris. She's whip smart but doesn't seem to have any core principles. Ambition is fine, but I want someone more grounded and empathetic. I really like Duckworth. I still wish for Warren.

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Re: Let's play veepstakes!

Post by malchior »

El Guapo wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:01 am
Kraken wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:57 am
El Guapo wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:47 pm
Jaymann wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:22 pm
Uppity would probably not be my first choice of adjectives.
Just to be clear "uppity" is Kraken's description of the complaints, not anything attributed to a person in the article.
Yeah, the nature of the complaints are about an uppity woman. I'm on Team Harris at this point because I already got burned once on Team Warren. :wink: I'm not a big fan, but I do think she could handle the top job.
A lot of it also seems to be Biden advisers being butthurt about Harris's attack on Biden in the first debate. It was a debate, get over it. Characterizing it as "disloyal" is absurd too. She was his opponent, what was she supposed to do? If she attacked him *now* that would be a valid complaint, but what, was she supposed to drop out in the first debate and endorse him or something?

I will say that Harris's shitty campaigning during the primary is arguably a red flag, but I assume that Team Biden would make sure that her sister isn't running the campaign.
I saw an interesting poll result that only 20% of Democrats and 18% of Independents even care about the VP choice. I think the VP choice should come down to fundamentals because I don't think any of it actually matters. They'll get bad news cycles no matter what so the optimized approach would be to pick the best choice long-term. That will be a candidate who can defeat whatever nightmare bog creature emerges in 2024. The Cillizza less filling media types are going to pick some idiotic theme and run it down. For Harris, it'll be how being tough on crime is now a weakness. For, Rice it will be the "unmasking" or spin-a-wheel and choose a Obama foreign policy misstep to attack, Duckworth it'll be some cringeworthy exploration of whether we are ready for a disabled VP (ugh - I hate to even have thought this one up but it would happen), etc.

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Re: Let's play veepstakes!

Post by Holman »

I was dubious about Rice when her name first came up, but perhaps I was just ignorant.

This week's Pod Save the World (hosted by two ex-Obama aides) makes a strong case that Rice would be a very good choice. They claim that despite her lack of elected experience, she has as much actual governing experience as anyone being considered. Most of all, she has personal relationships with many world leaders and is thus the perfect choice for Biden to send on a world tour to reassure allies that the Trump era is over.
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!

Post by stessier »

I still hope it is Kamala Harris.
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!

Post by Pyperkub »

Harris. Harris. Harris.

Not Susan Rice or Abrams or a Mayor.

My completely bonkers left-field pick would be part of a strategy to crush the GOP as we know it (and as the Lincoln Project is trying to do to a degree), and pick a moderate, pro-choice, non-climate denier, GOP member who could short circuit all the partisan bs and misinformation and possibly undercut McConnell and shift the GOP towards a more moderate position. The pick has some issues with 9/11 and the patriot act, but has the experience required. It would really piss off the Progressive wing, but could get the Country to a far better place by 2024 and beyond.
Spoiler:
Condoleeza Rice - link is to her various positions - just the kind of moderate everyone loves to say they love

Get her and Colin Powell and Romney campaigning for Biden... user her GOP cred to rally Congresspersons who don't necessarily want to go along with the burn it all down crowd, and break the Hastert rule compliance, etc.
Last edited by Pyperkub on Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!

Post by Pyperkub »

Holman wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:41 am
I was dubious about Rice when her name first came up, but perhaps I was just ignorant.

This week's Pod Save the World (hosted by two ex-Obama aides) makes a strong case that Rice would be a very good choice. They claim that despite her lack of elected experience, she has as much actual governing experience as anyone being considered. Most of all, she has personal relationships with many world leaders and is thus the perfect choice for Biden to send on a world tour to reassure allies that the Trump era is over.
If it weren't for the misinformation machine, etc - sure, but a far, far better place for her would be Chief of Staff or SecState (positions chosen *after* the election). The GOP has already positioned her as a 2020 Hillary, and that would really give Trump and the GOP the boost they desperately are searching for.
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!

Post by Alefroth »

Pyperkub wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:46 pm
who could short circuit all the partisan bs and misinformation and possibly undercut McConnell and shift the GOP towards a more moderate position.
How would she do any of that?

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Re: Let's play veepstakes!

Post by Pyperkub »

Alefroth wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:52 pm
Pyperkub wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:46 pm
who could short circuit all the partisan bs and misinformation and possibly undercut McConnell and shift the GOP towards a more moderate position.
How would she do any of that?
The same way the Lincoln Project is. She could be a lever to get GOP members in Congress to break away from the Groupthink. They call her a RINO, and she points out how far they've strayed from their actual positions, and raises the question of what a true RINO is - one who follows the groupthink, or one who can place Country over Party and actually Govern.
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!

Post by Remus West »

Pyperkub wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:54 pm
Alefroth wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:52 pm
Pyperkub wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:46 pm
who could short circuit all the partisan bs and misinformation and possibly undercut McConnell and shift the GOP towards a more moderate position.
How would she do any of that?
The same way the Lincoln Project is. She could be a lever to get GOP members in Congress to break away from the Groupthink. They call her a RINO, and she points out how far they've strayed from their actual positions, and raises the question of what a true RINO is - one who follows the groupthink, or one who can place Country over Party and actually Govern.
I'd still vote for Biden if he did that only because the alternative is so unconscionable but I wouldn't be happy about it. I really want him to select someone I could see myself supporting in 4 years.
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!

Post by Pyperkub »

Remus West wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:03 pm
Pyperkub wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:54 pm
Alefroth wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:52 pm
Pyperkub wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:46 pm
who could short circuit all the partisan bs and misinformation and possibly undercut McConnell and shift the GOP towards a more moderate position.
How would she do any of that?
The same way the Lincoln Project is. She could be a lever to get GOP members in Congress to break away from the Groupthink. They call her a RINO, and she points out how far they've strayed from their actual positions, and raises the question of what a true RINO is - one who follows the groupthink, or one who can place Country over Party and actually Govern.
I'd still vote for Biden if he did that only because the alternative is so unconscionable but I wouldn't be happy about it. I really want him to select someone I could see myself supporting in 4 years.
Question, did you look at the link?

I think she could win you over. I doubt it will happen however, but that kind of thinking is going to be what we need if we ever want to get this country working together again.

While I'm all in on a lot of the Progressive agenda, and I do think Biden needs to chose someone who is ready to take the mantle of the party for 2024 (or sooner, he ain't young, and CV increases likelihood of death in office, IMHO), if the winds look like that kind of pick could divert the GOP from the Cotton/Carlson Trumpist wing for the rest of the 2020's (and maybe beyond), it could well be best for everyone. The thing is that VP is likely most important during the campaign, and not really for policy, and if she bought in and he trusted her, it could work.

It could also stop (or at least stall) the bi-polar pendulum swings we are having. Biden has said he'd a be one term President. So what does 2024 look like?

(Dem VP) Harris/Duckworth... vs Cotton/Carlson/Trump Jr.

or

AOC (as Bernie inheritor) /Buttigieg/Newsom/Harris vs. Condi/Haley

In which case are we no longer quite as bipolar, and have some better consistency in Government?
Last edited by Pyperkub on Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!

Post by Jeff V »

It's been discussed before that VEEP isn't necessarily a stepping stone to a presidential run. The last one to do so successfully was Bush I, prior to that you have to go all the way back to Marty "Don't call me Marty" Van Buren. So I'm not that concerned that the VEEP candidate also be a viable 2024 presidential candidate, although given most of the likely choices, I expect they would be (whether they survive primaries depends how well the galvanize the party behind them).

Condie Rice would be an interesting choice in another day and time, but not now. Remember, Biden is pretty fucking old, and with Covid especially helping the old find their final resting place, there is an elevated risk that the VEEP will need to finish the term. Nerfing the donkey agenda by assassinating Biden and having a Republican step in also becomes a hazard. Shit is too insane right now for this sort of gambit.

Now, from what I gather on FB, if BLM gets any more notoriety, the deplorables are in danger of having their tiny genitals simply shrivel up and fall off. Harris is my first choice, but her presence on the ballot will likely provide greater incentive for Trumptards to come out of the woodwork. Duckworth, OTOH, would probably result in the GOP falling on their own swords as any military vets left on their side will be disgusted by their attacks on a celebrated war veteran.

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Re: Let's play veepstakes!

Post by Kraken »

Jeff V wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:54 pm
It's been discussed before that VEEP isn't necessarily a stepping stone to a presidential run. The last one to do so successfully was Bush I, prior to that you have to go all the way back to Marty "Don't call me Marty" Van Buren. So I'm not that concerned that the VEEP candidate also be a viable 2024 presidential candidate, although given most of the likely choices, I expect they would be (whether they survive primaries depends how well the galvanize the party behind them).
There is a higher-than-usual chance that the VP will inherit the presidency during Biden's term and become the incumbent in '24 (i.e., Biden will die or step down), and an even higher chance that Biden will decline to seek reelection, making his veep the anointed one. Since she will have a strong chance of being set up as the first female POTUS, choosing a viable candidate is especially important.

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Re: Let's play veepstakes!

Post by Pyperkub »

FWIW, I think there is a 0.01% of this happening (or lower) - She would have to be hitting the circuit to raise her profile and she isn't. The only way this is even remotely possible is if the actual pick dies before the election. I just think that at some point, someone is going to have to make a move similar to this to fix our Country and the completely broken GOP. Trump could have done it as well coming from his outsider position - it would have required nominating Garland and picking someone like OH's Kasich as VP - he had an opportunity to tack to the center, but instead has gone all in with the Nazi-racists.

I do think that now is maybe the most opportune time to do it, with the Lincoln Project Never-Trump Republicans practically begging for something, and the Trump approach showing just how completely broken and damaging to the Country the current GOP is. Something like this could (would?) get a lot of the GOP dark money flowing to both Biden and propping up true moderate GOP members who can actually govern w/o giving in to the Nazi/Racist wing. Wait until 2024, and the Nazi/Racist/Propaganda machine will have had plenty of opportunity to be attacking everything and ensuring that the cycle of bad GOP candidates/rule followed by Dems fixing stuff continues.
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!

Post by noxiousdog »

Condoleezza Rice has been very, very, very explicit she wants no part of the presidency.
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!

Post by Alefroth »

Pyperkub wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:54 pm
Alefroth wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:52 pm
Pyperkub wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:46 pm
who could short circuit all the partisan bs and misinformation and possibly undercut McConnell and shift the GOP towards a more moderate position.
How would she do any of that?
The same way the Lincoln Project is. She could be a lever to get GOP members in Congress to break away from the Groupthink. They call her a RINO, and she points out how far they've strayed from their actual positions, and raises the question of what a true RINO is - one who follows the groupthink, or one who can place Country over Party and actually Govern.
I'm not optimistic that that is even close to what would happen.

Getting Rice, Powell, and Romney to campaign for Biden would just be the end of their cred with the GOP. Providing they even want to.

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Re: Let's play veepstakes!

Post by Pyperkub »

noxiousdog wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:29 pm
Condoleezza Rice has been very, very, very explicit she wants no part of the presidency.
The Order of Cincinnatus. She may not want it, but if called, sometimes one needs to perform a duty.

FWIW, I'd want no part of it either!
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!

Post by Pyperkub »

Alefroth wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:06 pm
Pyperkub wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:54 pm
Alefroth wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:52 pm
Pyperkub wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:46 pm
who could short circuit all the partisan bs and misinformation and possibly undercut McConnell and shift the GOP towards a more moderate position.
How would she do any of that?
The same way the Lincoln Project is. She could be a lever to get GOP members in Congress to break away from the Groupthink. They call her a RINO, and she points out how far they've strayed from their actual positions, and raises the question of what a true RINO is - one who follows the groupthink, or one who can place Country over Party and actually Govern.
I'm not optimistic that that is even close to what would happen.

Getting Rice, Powell, and Romney to campaign for Biden would just be the end of their cred with the GOP. Providing they even want to.
Got any other ideas? IMHO, for the Country to be the best it can be, the current GOP needs be weaned away from the heroin-laced kool-ade they are currently addicted to, and I don't see many other ways which don't eventually involve bloodshed, and failure to do so probably leads to the GOP running a totalitarian state in perpetuity at some point.
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!

Post by Holman »

That's a hard No on Condoleeza Rice.

Not only does it imagine that persuadable Republicans still exist (or ones that would only vote Biden with Condie on the ticket), but it would be a huge slap in the face in the rising Progressive movement that is the future of the Democratic Party and so very necessary to deal with the twin megacrises of climate change and economic inequality. It would depress Dem turnout more than it would win GOP voters.

Plus it means acquiescence (rather than just amnesia) to the crimes of Bush administration.
Pyperkub wrote:
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Got any other ideas?
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!

Post by Jeff V »

Kraken wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:37 pm
Jeff V wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:54 pm
It's been discussed before that VEEP isn't necessarily a stepping stone to a presidential run. The last one to do so successfully was Bush I, prior to that you have to go all the way back to Marty "Don't call me Marty" Van Buren. So I'm not that concerned that the VEEP candidate also be a viable 2024 presidential candidate, although given most of the likely choices, I expect they would be (whether they survive primaries depends how well the galvanize the party behind them).
There is a higher-than-usual chance that the VP will inherit the presidency during Biden's term and become the incumbent in '24 (i.e., Biden will die or step down), and an even higher chance that Biden will decline to seek reelection, making his veep the anointed one. Since she will have a strong chance of being set up as the first female POTUS, choosing a viable candidate is especially important.
Exactly, which is why now is not the time to choose a candidate from the other party. While Rice is a conservative I could potentially support, there needs to be a massive bloodbath in the party before I'd say, "yeah, she can turn it around."

If Biden is confident he can bring it home with Harris, then I support it 100%. If he feels his lead is shaky, though, perhaps Duckworth or another less-polarizing candidate is a better choice.

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Re: Let's play veepstakes!

Post by malchior »

Another reason to reject a #NeverTrump GOP person is that there needs to be no question of the legitimacy of the Democratic candidate. They need to run on Democratic party policies and values. They need to win based on the brand.

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El Guapo
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!

Post by El Guapo »

I think this thread is probably the only place in the world where anyone is talking about Biden picking Condoleeza Rice for VP.

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Fireball
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!

Post by Fireball »

The notion that Condoleeza Rice would even be considered is laughable to the extreme. Biden would blow up his entire campaign through such a move, and would likely end up having the delegates revolt and put someone else on the ballot.
Wed Oct 20, 2004 1:17 am
Zarathud: The sad thing is that Barak Obama is a very intelligent and articulate person, even when you disagree with his views it's clear that he's very thoughtful. I would have loved to see Obama in a real debate.
Me: Wait 12 years, when he runs for president. :-)

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Isgrimnur
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!

Post by Isgrimnur »

El Guapo wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:03 am
I think this thread is probably the only place in the world where anyone is talking about Biden picking Condoleeza Rice for VP.
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El Guapo
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Location: Boston

Re: Let's play veepstakes!

Post by El Guapo »

I stand corrected.

Nonetheless, it's never ever ever going to even come close to happening.

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