Election integrity and the transfer of power

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:02 pm

A taste of the next three months.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:15 pm

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:17 pm

Sure you can ask, but on what conceivable authority can he force a state to stop counting votes?

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:30 pm

Jaymann wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:17 pm Sure you can ask, but on what conceivable authority can he force a state to stop counting votes?

They originally had a claim that an executive order that Murphy signed to promote mail-in voting overrode the NJ legislature. Then the legislature passed a law that mirrored the EO. Now they've changed their rationale to one of the state violating Federal law by changing the election date. It has the whiff of plausibility which will drag it out. I'd love to predict it'll be simple but they are going to make this painful. The more important thing is they are going to do this everywhere. Everywhere defined as Blue States or states he loses.

Edit: Also keep in mind the Trump campaign believes they have the SCOTUS on their side -- and probably does. SCOTUS handed down multiple rulings where they essentially ignore there is a pandemic going on. The Trump campaign's objective isn't even to win. It is to discourage voting, cause chaos, and establish the grounds for a challenge to the election results.

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:03 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:02 pm A taste of the next three months.

Does that cost the campaign anything?

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:29 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:57 pm This totally makes sense.

Football games - outdoors - safe
Tailgating* - outdoors - not safe
Lines to vote - could be outdoors - but somehow dangerous
Voting - indoors - *impossible to do safely obviously * so clearly dangerous
Shuttle to downtown voting location - safe

*Not an exception to the tailgating policy - "Therefore, fans will be allowed to gather near their vehicle with family members or those with whom they traveled and plan to sit with in the stadium."

The Georgia GOP is packed to the rafters with UGA alumni.

I'm pretty sure we know who "determined" this policy.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:25 pm

It's all a part of a strategy:

https://www.thenation.com/article/polit ... ppression/

The fact is, our republic, indeed any representative government, relies more than just on the law. It relies on norms of conduct that cannot be codified, expectations that there are unspoken "rules" and traditions, that everyone knows and has agreed to play by. As we have seen in Hungry, Poland, and now seemingly so in the US, when one party decides norms no longer apply to it, that it is free to win at all costs, to push as hard as it can at the limits of the law no matter the consequences for the republic as a whole, then representative government will inevitably collapse. I am afraid that this is where we are now. The Trump Party (I will no longer call them Republicans) have decided that losing is no longer an acceptable outcome and will do almost whatever it can do to achieve "victory".

I am saddened and ashamed to be living in this country right now. I never thought I would see anything like this in my lifetime.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:03 am

Grifman wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:25 pm I am afraid that this is where we are now. The Trump Party (I will no longer call them Republicans) have decided that losing is no longer an acceptable outcome and will do almost whatever it can do to achieve "victory".

I am saddened and ashamed to be living in this country right now. I never thought I would see anything like this in my lifetime.

We are about to get one last chance to avoid that fate, or at least stave it off, if it isn't too late already. If we can't remove the worst president* in US history seven weeks from now -- or if, even worse, he ekes out a legitimate win -- then we are indeed in the end game.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:57 am

Holman wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:29 pm
malchior wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:57 pm This totally makes sense.

Football games - outdoors - safe
Tailgating* - outdoors - not safe
Lines to vote - could be outdoors - but somehow dangerous
Voting - indoors - *impossible to do safely obviously * so clearly dangerous
Shuttle to downtown voting location - safe

*Not an exception to the tailgating policy - "Therefore, fans will be allowed to gather near their vehicle with family members or those with whom they traveled and plan to sit with in the stadium."
The Georgia GOP is packed to the rafters with UGA alumni.

I'm pretty sure we know who "determined" this policy.

Due to concerns of spreading the contamination at an indoor venue, we are implementing that students to not all come to crowd this one place but rather leave campus and go crowd lots of different places.

Grifman wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:25 pm It's all a part of a strategy:

https://www.thenation.com/article/polit ... ppression/

The fact is, our republic, indeed any representative government, relies more than just on the law. It relies on norms of conduct that cannot be codified, expectations that there are unspoken "rules" and traditions, that everyone knows and has agreed to play by. As we have seen in Hungry, Poland, and now seemingly so in the US, when one party decides norms no longer apply to it, that it is free to win at all costs, to push as hard as it can at the limits of the law no matter the consequences for the republic as a whole, then representative government will inevitably collapse. I am afraid that this is where we are now. The Trump Party (I will no longer call them Republicans) have decided that losing is no longer an acceptable outcome and will do almost whatever it can do to achieve "victory".

I am saddened and ashamed to be living in this country right now. I never thought I would see anything like this in my lifetime.

I feel a solidarity with everything you said.

What you describe is how I was raised. It's why you do the right thing when no one is watching. It's why you obey speed limits and traffic lights and don't declare bankruptcy as part of your normal 7 year financial planning cycle, not taking loans you know you can't pay back, why lenders didn't make loans they know wouldn't be paid back and then selling them to other lenders. This is what means to live in a civil society. Not only is it heart breaking to see the nation largely lose our way but to see the very community who instilled these mores in to me turn a blind eye and declare socialism like it's Smoove or Fed's Popehat or a ostrichlike 7 year old response of "so is your face."

I think it was Unagi who said he was thinking about uprooting to another country. For the first time in life, I have seriously wondered what it means, what it takes to become expatriated and where it would be reasonable to move and how, quite frankly, I could still get benefits I spent a lifetime paying into.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:12 am

LordMortis wrote:Due to concerns of spreading the contamination at an indoor venue, we are implementing that students to not all come to crowd this one place but rather leave campus in a crowded shuttle and go crowd lots of different places.

FTFY

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:06 am

LordMortis wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:57 am

I think it was Unagi who said he was thinking about uprooting to another country. For the first time in life, I have seriously wondered what it means, what it takes to become expatriated and where it would be reasonable to move and how, quite frankly, I could still get benefits I spent a lifetime paying into.

This is why I'm slowly moving some assets to crypto. I don't like the volatility but its portability cannot be beat.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:53 am

I have a friend that confided in me that he's considering taking jobs in either the EU or Canada depending on what shakes out in November - relocating his entire family in the process. I'm not gonna lie, the thought has crossed my mind as well - which is not a sentence I thought I'd ever write. Chances are low given my family connections here, but the idea that it would even be on the table is frightening to me.

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:57 am

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:53 am I have a friend that confided in me that he's considering taking jobs in either the EU or Canada depending on what shakes out in November - relocating his entire family in the process. I'm not gonna lie, the thought has crossed my mind as well - which is not a sentence I thought I'd ever write. Chances are low given my family connections here, but the idea that it would even be on the table is frightening to me.

We've had the same thoughts, but honestly I don't have any idea how I would actually do that. My company does have an office in NZ. Maybe I could go live with the hobbits.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:03 am

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:53 am I have a friend that confided in me that he's considering taking jobs in either the EU or Canada depending on what shakes out in November - relocating his entire family in the process. I'm not gonna lie, the thought has crossed my mind as well - which is not a sentence I thought I'd ever write. Chances are low given my family connections here, but the idea that it would even be on the table is frightening to me.

It has crossed my mind. Especially since I've had so much exposure to Europe. I spent a good part of last summer there and it changed my perspective on how ... bad it is here. I had some idea but when you see it from the outside and realize that our society is mental illness at a country scale. I almost feel like it is beyond redemption without a conflagration. A good portion of our population live in an alternate reality bleak nihilist fantasy. And unfortunately the outcome is people starting to act out violently which feeds into it. We are in a spiral. We can elect Biden even and I can't help but think the spiral continues...it just won't be as steep.

Anyway, I've considered it too. Strongly even but I think it is going to be challenging. Other countries are going to be wary of emigres from the United States to say the least. And not many of us are spring chickens. Once you are in your 40s your odds go down a lot without an established family presence in another country. I think the realistic thing is people are going to have to start to realize they need to prepare to get through a period of civil instability here. The odds are increasing sharply.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:34 pm

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:53 am I have a friend that confided in me that he's considering taking jobs in either the EU or Canada depending on what shakes out in November - relocating his entire family in the process. I'm not gonna lie, the thought has crossed my mind as well - which is not a sentence I thought I'd ever write. Chances are low given my family connections here, but the idea that it would even be on the table is frightening to me.

My older brother and his kids are German citizens and I took some German in college. I think I would have to take up drinking again if I moved to Germany. Access to snowboarding and no damn beaches. My wife would want to move to a place with beaches though. One of my best friends moved to Mexico (near Mérida in the Yucatan) a couple years ago and they are loving it. Oh, I also took Spanish in high school and remember a LOT more of that than German (it's a bit more useful in Texas).

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:51 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_s ... in_Germany

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:52 pm

My mother was born in Montreal before 1947, so I'm a Canadian citizen by descent. I'm in the process of getting my citizenship certificate now. Hopefully that will open doors in other commonwealth countries.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:53 pm

coopasonic wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:34 pm
Smoove_B wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:53 am I have a friend that confided in me that he's considering taking jobs in either the EU or Canada depending on what shakes out in November - relocating his entire family in the process. I'm not gonna lie, the thought has crossed my mind as well - which is not a sentence I thought I'd ever write. Chances are low given my family connections here, but the idea that it would even be on the table is frightening to me.
My older brother and his kids are German citizens and I took some German in college. I think I would have to take up drinking again if I moved to Germany. Access to snowboarding and no damn beaches. My wife would want to move to a place with beaches though. One of my best friends moved to Mexico (near Mérida in the Yucatan) a couple years ago and they are loving it. Oh, I also took Spanish in high school and remember a LOT more of that than German (it's a bit more useful in Texas).

If it's beaches - the Hague is a very good option. I love the beaches there. They are quite nice and people are very respectful of the environment.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:01 pm

Alefroth wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:52 pm My mother was born in Montreal before 1947, so I'm a Canadian citizen by descent. I'm in the process of getting my citizenship certificate now. Hopefully that will open doors in other commonwealth countries.

The family my paternal ancestor stole the name of when coming to America now live in Canada. I might be able to pretend I'm related to people over the border.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:58 pm

More mail headwinds:

CHICAGO — A host of postal workers, community leaders and concerned citizens gathered for a prayer vigil Thursday at the spot where a letter carrier was inexplicably shot in Burnside last week.

...
Union leaders say letter carriers will refuse to deliver mail if they don’t feel safe, and they’re warning that entire neighborhoods could lose mail service due to fear of gang conflicts across the city.

There are straight up running (driving) gun battles between gangs now. Guess which neighborhoods will lose mail service?

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:58 pm

Election integrity? Trump vs Biden? Voting Rights? Political randomness? I 'm not even sure where to put this. Where are the police with rubber bullets? Tear gas?

Trump Supporters continue to protest at the #EarlyVoteVA site in Fairfax VA. They have to move voters inside because they are blocking the site for voters. As you can see here they are blocking the entrance to the voting site.

EDIT: Ah, deeper in the comments -

Update: Most of the #MAGA Supporters cleared out when extra security came to monitor the voting site.

However, the idea that an organized group would think that this was appropriate in any way? It's gross.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:18 am

Scariest read of the day.

The Atlantic

There is a cohort of close observers of our presidential elections, scholars and lawyers and political strategists, who find themselves in the uneasy position of intelligence analysts in the months before 9/11. As November 3 approaches, their screens are blinking red, alight with warnings that the political system does not know how to absorb. They see the obvious signs that we all see, but they also know subtle things that most of us do not. Something dangerous has hove into view, and the nation is lurching into its path.

The danger is not merely that the 2020 election will bring discord. Those who fear something worse take turbulence and controversy for granted. The coronavirus pandemic, a reckless incumbent, a deluge of mail-in ballots, a vandalized Postal Service, a resurgent effort to suppress votes, and a trainload of lawsuits are bearing down on the nation’s creaky electoral machinery.

...

The worst case, however, is not that Trump rejects the election outcome. The worst case is that he uses his power to prevent a decisive outcome against him. If Trump sheds all restraint, and if his Republican allies play the parts he assigns them, he could obstruct the emergence of a legally unambiguous victory for Biden in the Electoral College and then in Congress. He could prevent the formation of consensus about whether there is any outcome at all. He could seize on that uncertainty to hold on to power.

Trump’s state and national legal teams are already laying the groundwork for postelection maneuvers that would circumvent the results of the vote count in battleground states. Ambiguities in the Constitution and logic bombs in the Electoral Count Act make it possible to extend the dispute all the way to Inauguration Day, which would bring the nation to a precipice. The Twentieth Amendment is crystal clear that the president’s term in office “shall end” at noon on January 20, but two men could show up to be sworn in. One of them would arrive with all the tools and power of the presidency already in hand.

“We are not prepared for this at all,” Julian Zelizer, a Princeton professor of history and public affairs, told me. “We talk about it, some worry about it, and we imagine what it would be. But few people have actual answers to what happens if the machinery of democracy is used to prevent a legitimate resolution to the election.”

...

Let us not hedge about one thing. Donald Trump may win or lose, but he will never concede. Not under any circumstance. Not during the Interregnum and not afterward. If compelled in the end to vacate his office, Trump will insist from exile, as long as he draws breath, that the contest was rigged.

Trump’s invincible commitment to this stance will be the most important fact about the coming Interregnum. It will deform the proceedings from beginning to end. We have not experienced anything like it before.

Maybe you hesitate. Is it a fact that if Trump loses, he will reject defeat, come what may? Do we know that? Technically, you feel obliged to point out, the proposition is framed in the future conditional, and prophecy is no man’s gift, and so forth. With all due respect, that is pettifoggery. We know this man. We cannot afford to pretend.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:26 am

Given that every worst-case scenario about Trump has been proven to be light-hearted, that's kind of pants-shitting. I didn't need that. I'm already on complete emotional burnout.

The one thing I know with absolute certainty is that when the Democrats regain enough power to do so, they need to shore up the holes in our system so this sort of absurd abuse can never happen again. I also know they won't.

This Smiley fairly well represents our political system, played in a loop.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:42 am

What is the reason for his determination to hold on the the presidency? Just ego or is he afraid of what happens when he doesn't (prosecution, revelations)?

I mean it seems like if he loses, it would just be more desirable for him ride off with his ill-gotten gains and new fan base and do whatever he wants. Surely he'd rather golf twice as much and get back to grabbin' pussy.

But there has to be a reason and I can't believe it's just ego. And a reason for the GOP to support this.

noxiousdog · Post by **noxiousdog** » Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:43 am

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:42 am What is the reason for his determination to hold on the the presidency? Just ego or is he afraid of what happens when he doesn't (prosecution, revelations)?

I mean it seems like it would just be more desirable for him ride off with his ill-gotten gains and new fan base and do whatever he wants. Surely he'd rather golf twice as much and get back to grabbin' pussy.

But there has to be a reason and I can't believe it's just ego. And a reason for the GOP to support this.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:45 am

noxiousdog wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:43 am
LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:42 am What is the reason for his determination to hold on the the presidency? Just ego or is he afraid of what happens when he doesn't (prosecution, revelations)?

I mean it seems like it would just be more desirable for him ride off with his ill-gotten gains and new fan base and do whatever he wants. Surely he'd rather golf twice as much and get back to grabbin' pussy.

But there has to be a reason and I can't believe it's just ego. And a reason for the GOP to support this.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

It's a lot easier to steal $ when you're not under the microscope of the presidency.

OTOH it's much easier to steal $ for someone/everyone else when you're in the presidency.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:53 am

It's also a lot easier to steal $$$ when you're not in jail.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:53 am

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:42 am What is the reason for his determination to hold on the the presidency? Just ego or is he afraid of what happens when he doesn't (prosecution, revelations)?

I mean it seems like if he loses, it would just be more desirable for him ride off with his ill-gotten gains and new fan base and do whatever he wants. Surely he'd rather golf twice as much and get back to grabbin' pussy.

But there has to be a reason and I can't believe it's just ego. And a reason for the GOP to support this.

There's a reasonably high chance of Trump winding up in jail if he leaves office. The presidency is his only reliable protection against that.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:55 am

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:42 am What is the reason for his determination to hold on the the presidency? Just ego or is he afraid of what happens when he doesn't (prosecution, revelations)?

I mean it seems like if he loses, it would just be more desirable for him ride off with his ill-gotten gains and new fan base and do whatever he wants. Surely he'd rather golf twice as much and get back to grabbin' pussy.

But there has to be a reason and I can't believe it's just ego. And a reason for the GOP to support this.

The simplest answer is that it could be true that he is legitimately mentally ill. Layer in the crime stuff on top of that but that is all predicated on his mental illness.

noxiousdog · Post by **noxiousdog** » Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:00 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:45 am
noxiousdog wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:43 am
LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:42 am What is the reason for his determination to hold on the the presidency? Just ego or is he afraid of what happens when he doesn't (prosecution, revelations)?

I mean it seems like it would just be more desirable for him ride off with his ill-gotten gains and new fan base and do whatever he wants. Surely he'd rather golf twice as much and get back to grabbin' pussy.

But there has to be a reason and I can't believe it's just ego. And a reason for the GOP to support this.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
It's a lot easier to steal $ when you're not under the microscope of the presidency.

OTOH it's much easier to steal $ for someone/everyone else when you're in the presidency.

Not at the scale he's doing now. He (and his people) are manipulating stocks, steering government contracts, and allowing foreign entities to bribe him (steering them to his overpriced hotel properties).

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:54 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:42 am What is the reason for his determination to hold on the the presidency? Just ego or is he afraid of what happens when he doesn't (prosecution, revelations)?

What is seemingly the most important thing to Trump, from what we've observed over the course of his last 30 years or so? (Hint: It's not money)

It's TRUMP. The brand. The RECOGNITION and attention to HIM (aka "ratings"). I have no doubt that is more important to him than money. Having one of the most powerful positions in the world? The most famous? Having people fawn over you, and LITERALLY thank him for allowing them to serve him, like he's some GD demigod...for someone with his particular...traits, that "glow" is hard to give up.

He obviously doesn't give a shit about governing. Even if he could (not sure about that), he doesn't want to. It's all about the fame and the spotlight (and sure, the money too, that's important, but it's definitely secondary to his image and power.) People hanging on his every word, his every tweet. It's like the holy grail for someone like him. Anything OTHER than being President, is losing, in his mind probably. Where does he go from there?

Down, baby, only down.

TL;DR version: It's good to be the king.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Wed Sep 23, 2020 1:08 pm

Kinda reminds me of Homelander.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:06 pm

Don't give him any ideas.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:08 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:18 am Scariest read of the day.

The Atlantic

This is what scares me the most - Trump using Republican controlled state legislatures to overturn the election results:

We are accustomed to choosing electors by popular vote, but nothing in the Constitution says it has to be that way. Article II provides that each state shall appoint electors “in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct.” Since the late 19th century, every state has ceded the decision to its voters. Even so, the Supreme Court affirmed in Bush v. Gore that a state “can take back the power to appoint electors.” How and when a state might do so has not been tested for well over a century.

Trump may test this. According to sources in the Republican Party at the state and national levels, the Trump campaign is discussing contingency plans to bypass election results and appoint loyal electors in battleground states where Republicans hold the legislative majority. With a justification based on claims of rampant fraud, Trump would ask state legislators to set aside the popular vote and exercise their power to choose a slate of electors directly. The longer Trump succeeds in keeping the vote count in doubt, the more pressure legislators will feel to act before the safe-harbor deadline expires.

To a modern democratic sensibility, discarding the popular vote for partisan gain looks uncomfortably like a coup, whatever license may be found for it in law. Would Republicans find that position disturbing enough to resist? Would they cede the election before resorting to such a ploy? Trump’s base would exact a high price for that betrayal, and by this point party officials would be invested in a narrative of fraud.

The Trump-campaign legal adviser I spoke with told me the push to appoint electors would be framed in terms of protecting the people’s will. Once committed to the position that the overtime count has been rigged, the adviser said, state lawmakers will want to judge for themselves what the voters intended.

“The state legislatures will say, ‘All right, we’ve been given this constitutional power. We don’t think the results of our own state are accurate, so here’s our slate of electors that we think properly reflect the results of our state,’ ” the adviser said. Democrats, he added, have exposed themselves to this stratagem by creating the conditions for a lengthy overtime.

“If you have this notion,” the adviser said, “that ballots can come in for I don’t know how many days—in some states a week, 10 days—then that onslaught of ballots just gets pushed back and pushed back and pushed back. So pick your poison. Is it worse to have electors named by legislators or to have votes received by Election Day?”

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:38 pm

Whelp, I guess that answers that question:

Spoiler:

Tweeter amends quote in the next tweet: it should read “There will not be a peaceful transfer of power”.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:39 pm

Trump just refused again to endorse a peaceful transfer of power. I am guessing this might be behind this tweet a few minutes ago.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:23 pm

I kinda wish they would stop talking about it and helping it be normalized at all.

If he does it, let that be a shock to Everyone... don't let them sit here and prepare for it publicly.

IMO.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:29 pm

Unagi wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:23 pm I kinda wish they would stop talking about it and helping it be normalized at all.

If he does it, let that be a shock to Everyone... don't let them sit here and prepare for it publicly.

IMO.

We mustn't give them the benefit of shock or else half the people won't believe what they're seeing.

We have to know it for what it is.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:42 pm

If this can be normalized then we're finished anyway. At the end of the day it is confirmation of the Atlantic article.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:46 pm

it feels like if we collectively survive this election, there's going to be a point in late 2021 or 2022 when people in the know start coming out and commenting on how close we were to flying off into the abyss right now. Sort of like how people came out long after the 2008/9 financial crisis and said there was almost total collapse behind the scenes, but this feels worse.

I've had Tina Belcher's soul-crushing moan playing on a loop in my brain almost non-stop since last Friday night. I'm not sure how much more of this I can take.