Election integrity and the transfer of power

[malchior]

Let's be honest. The country is in a state of open lawlessness. I've been saying this will be the worst election we've ever seen and yet I didn't think it'd get this bad. I thought we'd be dealing with bullshit investigations (probably still coming!) but this is a full on assault we have to be ready to take to the streets. We might not have a choice here.

And if enough of us manage to vote anyway and elect Biden, trump will incite the other side into the streets. It is hard to imagine an orderly, peaceful outcome.

I'm actually optimistic that we won't be seeing Trump-supporting mobs.

Trump's most fervent supporters (aside from the alt-right militias whose numbers are too small for national impact and who actually consider themselves independent of GOP control) are the middle-aged social-media soldiers of right-wing conspiracy theory.

If Trump is going to turn out mobs in the street, those would be the cadres, but here's the thing: they've never shown up. Democrat-aligned groups have managed to self-generate sustained protests for weeks on end, even in the face of tear gas and truncheons and unmarked arrests, but the Right can barely produce a handful of beer bellies for a single day's significant action.

This here is the potential and I'll stress *potential* weakness here. If he has the police, CBP, ICE, and all the thug end DHS services and 2 months to wreak havok...well he might be able to. He doesn't necessarily need the right-wing to stand up. Though he might use them to supplement his nascent brown shirts. The stuff in Portland was a test. He has cadres of thugs at his fingertips right now. I don't think people really are realizing how close to the edge we actually are.

[El Guapo]

Let's be honest. The country is in a state of open lawlessness. I've been saying this will be the worst election we've ever seen and yet I didn't think it'd get this bad. I thought we'd be dealing with bullshit investigations (probably still coming!) but this is a full on assault we have to be ready to take to the streets. We might not have a choice here.

And if enough of us manage to vote anyway and elect Biden, trump will incite the other side into the streets. It is hard to imagine an orderly, peaceful outcome.

I'm actually optimistic that we won't be seeing Trump-supporting mobs.

Trump's most fervent supporters (aside from the alt-right militias whose numbers are too small for national impact and who actually consider themselves independent of GOP control) are the middle-aged social-media soldiers of right-wing conspiracy theory.

If Trump is going to turn out mobs in the street, those would be the cadres, but here's the thing: they've never shown up. Democrat-aligned groups have managed to self-generate sustained protests for weeks on end, even in the face of tear gas and truncheons and unmarked arrests, but the Right can barely produce a handful of beer bellies for a single day's significant action.

This here is the potential and I'll stress *potential* weakness here. If he has the police, CBP, ICE, and all the thug end DHS services and 2 months to wreak havok...well he might be able to. He doesn't necessarily need the right-wing to stand up. Though he might use them to supplement his nascent brown shirts. The stuff in Portland was a test. He has cadres of thugs at his fingertips right now. I don't think people really are realizing how close to the edge we actually are.

I don't think sending his paramilitary thugs to beat people up is likely to work. It would only piss people off and provoke more protests. Not that it couldn't work to extend his rule, it's just not his best play. I'm *way* more worried about him using his thugs to selectively shut down polling places and the like...without some kind of officlal-looking victory that the SCOTUS will rubber stamp, his odds of remaining in office are low.

[LawBeefaroni]

A friend of mine who is a longtime USPS employee:

DeJoy’s first order of business was to mandate all tractor trailers must leave on schedule no matter what, under no circumstances must they be held back, then he proceeded to get rid of mail sorting machinery at certain plants and refused to replace them with other machinery or man power, a lot of trucks are leaving empty, causing a huge delay in mail, now he’s getting rid of experienced managers and replacing them with dumbasses.

[$iljanus]

As I read more about Trump’s naked desire to suppress the vote for his benefit coupled with his eagerness to send Federal law enforcement into cities like they were his own personal guard and his mishandling of the pandemic, I wonder what the colonists of old would have done? A number of them wanted to keep the status quo and stay with England but more people chose the other path. Would we have the means and courage to take the same stand and break the status quo? What would that look like in our time and are we guaranteed something better as a result? What’s our personal tipping point?

I don’t think that simply enduring four more years is good enough anymore and after reading this WaPo article, what do people on the short end have to lose?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... Fstory-ans

U.S. stocks are hovering near a record high, a stunning comeback since March that underscores the new phase the economy has entered: The wealthy have mostly recovered. The bottom half remain far from it.
This dichotomy is evident in many facets of the economy, especially in employment. Jobs are fully back for the highest wage earners, but fewer than half the jobs lost this spring have returned for those making less than $20 an hour, according to a new labor data analysis by John Friedman, an economics professor at Brown University and co-director of Opportunity Insights.
Though recessions almost always hit lower-wage workers the hardest, the pandemic is causing especially large gaps between rich and poor, and between White and minority households. It is also widening the gap between big and small businesses. Some of the largest companies, such as Nike and Best Buy, are enjoying their highest stock prices ever while many smaller businesses fight for survival.
Some economists have started to call this a “K-shaped” recovery because of the diverging prospects for the rich and poor, and they say policy failures in Washington are exacerbating the problems.

[Max Peck]

I wonder what the colonists of old would have done? A number of them also wanted to keep the status quo and stay with England but we all know how that turned out.

Moving to Canada won't solve anything this time.

[pr0ner]

Let's be honest. The country is in a state of open lawlessness. I've been saying this will be the worst election we've ever seen and yet I didn't think it'd get this bad. I thought we'd be dealing with bullshit investigations (probably still coming!) but this is a full on assault we have to be ready to take to the streets. We might not have a choice here.

And if enough of us manage to vote anyway and elect Biden, trump will incite the other side into the streets. It is hard to imagine an orderly, peaceful outcome.

I would agree with Holman. None of the Trump supporters I know would take to the streets if he lost the election. Quite a few Biden supporters I know would if the result appeared shady.

[pr0ner]

A friend of mine who is a longtime USPS employee:

DeJoy’s first order of business was to mandate all tractor trailers must leave on schedule no matter what, under no circumstances must they be held back, then he proceeded to get rid of mail sorting machinery at certain plants and refused to replace them with other machinery or man power, a lot of trucks are leaving empty, causing a huge delay in mail, now he’s getting rid of experienced managers and replacing them with dumbasses.

Here's my example of watching current USPS slowness.

Ordered something online to be shipped via First Class mail. The estimate on the shipping notice said 3 days.

Label was generated Monday (the 10th). It wasn't marked as picked up for a full day (the 11th). It only got to Chicago on the 13th (last night). It took two full days to go from Melrose Park, IL to Chicago! If I get the package in on Monday I'd be surprised. I'm expecting Wednesday at this point.

[LawBeefaroni]

Let's be honest. The country is in a state of open lawlessness. I've been saying this will be the worst election we've ever seen and yet I didn't think it'd get this bad. I thought we'd be dealing with bullshit investigations (probably still coming!) but this is a full on assault we have to be ready to take to the streets. We might not have a choice here.

And if enough of us manage to vote anyway and elect Biden, trump will incite the other side into the streets. It is hard to imagine an orderly, peaceful outcome.

I would agree with Holman. None of the Trump supporters I know would take to the streets if he lost the election. Quite a few Biden supporters I know would if the result appeared shady.

Thing is, if Biden supporters take to the streets, they'll get pepperballed and maced and beat up. If Trump supporters take to the streets they'll take a State Capitol. We have to be mentally prepared for that.

[$iljanus]

Let's be honest. The country is in a state of open lawlessness. I've been saying this will be the worst election we've ever seen and yet I didn't think it'd get this bad. I thought we'd be dealing with bullshit investigations (probably still coming!) but this is a full on assault we have to be ready to take to the streets. We might not have a choice here.

And if enough of us manage to vote anyway and elect Biden, trump will incite the other side into the streets. It is hard to imagine an orderly, peaceful outcome.

I would agree with Holman. None of the Trump supporters I know would take to the streets if he lost the election. Quite a few Biden supporters I know would if the result appeared shady.

Thing is, if Biden supporters take to the streets, they'll get pepperballed and maced and beat up. If Trump supporters take to the streets they'll take a State Capitol. We have to be mentally prepared for that.

I think the non violent resistance of colonial rule in India is a powerful example of both the consequences of resisting and what is possible. The non violent movements of our own civil rights movement was certainly not non violent with the state and local governments using force on protesters but they set in motion a struggle that is still ongoing today. We need to mold those non violent tactics and figure out what would succeed in today's political and economic climate. The Federal abandonment of the people might make for some strange bedfellows and who knows who'll be along side of you in a general workers strike or a street shutdown? Amazon, Walmart, et al would like to keep their customers (meaning an rudderless administration alienating more than half of the population can be bad for the bottom line if these companies don't take a side. Certainly not that they're benevolent businesses). Farmers want to sell their goods. Teachers want to teach safely. Health care workers want to be valued and given the resources to succeed.

[Paingod]

From the article, they know of 19 machines from 5 facilities. It's not a good look, but it's not necessarily nefarious.

I wanted to back you up on that and say that I think this boils down to simple greed, but the timeline suggests otherwise.

Before Louis DeJoy, Megan Brennan was the Postmaster General from February 1, 2015 until June 15th. An Obama-era hangover. One Trump clearly didn't give two shits about or he would have thrown her out on her ass years ago.

She only mattered once a pandemic hit and it became clear mail-in ballots would be a decisive thing. Structurally, fucking with the post office is going to harm some people that rely on the service as a lifeline to the outside world - but mostly it's going to hamstring densely packed largely Democratic voting areas. It's very much a targeted attack.

The icing on the cake is that DeJoy gets to personally profit from doing Trump's bidding by increasing the value of his investments in UPS and FedEx.

I honestly find this plan too well thought out to be coming from the orange one himself. I'd wager that someone with brain cells to rub together - like Kushner or McConnell - saw the pandemic for the ripe opportunity that it is for this and looked for the absolute best pick for the arson job.

I don't want to believe people can be so underhanded and vile, but I don't see any other logic in the unfolding of events.

I'm starting to feel like we're living through the world seen in V for Vendetta that resulted in the High Chancellor becoming a lifetime appointment. The one they keep flashing back to throughout the movie, where things just kept spiraling into worse and worse circumstance.

[Alefroth]

Thing is, if Biden supporters take to the streets, they'll get pepperballed and maced and beat up.

If Trump does steal the election and Biden supporters take to the streets, I think it will only be a matter of time before they are subject to this or worse, not just from authorities, but also from Trump supporters as they feel unshackled and duty-bound.

[El Guapo]

Thing is, if Biden supporters take to the streets, they'll get pepperballed and maced and beat up.

If Trump does steal the election and Biden supporters take to the streets, I think it will only be a matter of time before they are subject to this or worse, not just from authorities, but also from Trump supporters as they feel unshackled and duty-bound.

That would put more Biden supporters out into the streets, not less.

[Alefroth]

Thing is, if Biden supporters take to the streets, they'll get pepperballed and maced and beat up.

If Trump does steal the election and Biden supporters take to the streets, I think it will only be a matter of time before they are subject to this or worse, not just from authorities, but also from Trump supporters as they feel unshackled and duty-bound.

That would put more Biden supporters out into the streets, not less.

Yeah, I'm not disputing that. But it will be uglier and still unlikely to amount to any kind of victory. I guess what I'm saying is that if Trump steals the election, that's it. Taking to the streets won't reverse that.

[Enough]

From the article, they know of 19 machines from 5 facilities. It's not a good look, but it's not necessarily nefarious.

Is it 100% "nefarious"? No. Still they also don't deserve the benefit of doubt anymore. If it smells with this administration it probably is bad. It doesn't even have to be Trump based. DeJoy is a ethical nightmare. It could just be some scheme to skim out money to put in his own pocket. We're dealing with out in the open kleptocracy here.

Agreed, adn given all the other reporting we clearly know that changes are leading to in some cases serious delivery delays. Another thing they might normally do but raises suspicions under current circumstances:



https://twitter.com/ThinkUpstream/statu ... 3309445120

Spoiler:

he USPS is literally backing up trucks to mailboxes and taking them away. Here are photos of mailboxes being “decommissioned” in SE Portland and Eugene, Ore. Check out how many are already on the trucks! But today's news is probably going to be about "golden showers" instead.

And speaking of golden showers, maybe this is why Trump wants those high-flow showers?

https://twitter.com/mikefarb1/status/12 ... 7580177409

[El Guapo]

I don't think Democrats can spend too much time talking about the Post Office. The USPS is widely popular and has a kind of mom & pop image. Plus it neatly encapsulates so many negative aspects of the Trump administration - trying to cheat, destruction of widely popular things, naked corruption, etc. Pelosi needs to like chain herself to a mailbox if she needs to, whatever it takes.

[Blackhawk]

I don't think Democrats can spend too much time talking about the Post Office. The USPS is widely popular and has a kind of mom & pop image.

It's something everyone relies on. Letter carriers have been the model for a vast number of "role model" characters on kids' TV and in schools for decades. It's small town America. It is Norman effing Rockwell.

[Enough]

I don't think Democrats can spend too much time talking about the Post Office. The USPS is widely popular and has a kind of mom & pop image.

It's something everyone relies on. Letter carriers have been the model for a vast number of "role model" characters on kids' TV and in schools for decades. It's small town America. It is Norman effing Rockwell.

I have been seen multiple posts on medications being delayed. The one I just read was for an elder lady who needs her medication to survive and it has never taken more than 6 days to get to her, after waiting over 25 days she finally was able to get it fedex'd her way. Ugh. Trump's war on the USPS is literally going to kill people. I guess in his mind, since they are either old or infirm they are expendable Americans just like those dying of COVID.

[Holman]

I don't think Democrats can spend too much time talking about the Post Office. The USPS is widely popular and has a kind of mom & pop image.

It's something everyone relies on. Letter carriers have been the model for a vast number of "role model" characters on kids' TV and in schools for decades. It's small town America. It is Norman effing Rockwell.

I remember when all of this was true of schoolteachers.

Inside of a month, USPS workers will be derided by half the country as lazy freeloaders benefiting from a bloated union whose regulations and benefits are the REAL cause of the mail slowdown.

[Carpet_pissr]

I guess in his mind, since they are not him, either old or infirm they are expendable Americans just like those dying of COVID.

I think you can boil every. single. thing. down to "ME!" with this d-bag.

[Carpet_pissr]

Inside of a month, USPS workers will be derided by half the country as lazy freeloaders benefiting from a bloated union whose regulations and benefits are the REAL cause of the mail slowdown.

Not a month...I just saw a headline for that article today scanning through my Google News app.

WSJ Opinion: "The Post Office's Problem Isn't Trump"

[Enough]

https://twitter.com/motherboard/status/ ... 6622997504

NEW: Around 500 mail sorting machines across the US will be taken out of service, according to documents obtained by Motherboard.

This accounts for about 15 percent of all USPS letter sorting machines.

[Alefroth]

I don't think Democrats can spend too much time talking about the Post Office. The USPS is widely popular and has a kind of mom & pop image.

It's something everyone relies on. Letter carriers have been the model for a vast number of "role model" characters on kids' TV and in schools for decades. It's small town America. It is Norman effing Rockwell.

I remember when all of this was true of schoolteachers.

Inside of a month, USPS workers will be derided by half the country as lazy freeloaders benefiting from a bloated union whose regulations and benefits are the REAL cause of the mail slowdown.

I'm already seeing it on posts from my state's senators. You'd think these people have hated the USPS their entire lives and it's finally getting its comeuppance.

[gilraen]

Spoiler:

NEW from @USPS: “We are suspending the removal of collection boxes at this time. All postings on collection boxes will be removed, as we will no longer be pulling any boxes.”

[malchior]

Drats. We got caught. Onto plan 38...

[Kraken]

My radio said that trump is offering $25B for USPS if the Dems drop their demand for aid to states. The damage that his henchman has done is beyond fixing with money.

[Alefroth]

My radio said that trump is offering $25B for USPS if the Dems drop their demand for aid to states. The damage that his henchman has done is beyond fixing with money.

Who knows where that $25B would even go at this point?

[Kraken]

My radio said that trump is offering $25B for USPS if the Dems drop their demand for aid to states. The damage that his henchman has done is beyond fixing with money.

Who knows where that $25B would even go at this point?

Not into improving delivery, that's for certain.

[El Guapo]

I don't think Democrats can spend too much time talking about the Post Office. The USPS is widely popular and has a kind of mom & pop image.

It's something everyone relies on. Letter carriers have been the model for a vast number of "role model" characters on kids' TV and in schools for decades. It's small town America. It is Norman effing Rockwell.

I remember when all of this was true of schoolteachers.

Inside of a month, USPS workers will be derided by half the country as lazy freeloaders benefiting from a bloated union whose regulations and benefits are the REAL cause of the mail slowdown.

I'm already seeing it on posts from my state's senators. You'd think these people have hated the USPS their entire lives and it's finally getting its comeuppance.

I get that, and I'm not saying that defending the Postal Service is going to be the magic bullet that destroys Trump's support, but if you had to pick political terrain to fight on, this seems about as good as it's going to get. And even knocking Trump's support down by 1% in the polls (or avoiding a 1% move in his favor) would be significant for the election.

[Kraken]

I, for one, miss Drazzil.

[malchior]

I don't think Democrats can spend too much time talking about the Post Office. The USPS is widely popular and has a kind of mom & pop image.

It's something everyone relies on. Letter carriers have been the model for a vast number of "role model" characters on kids' TV and in schools for decades. It's small town America. It is Norman effing Rockwell.

I remember when all of this was true of schoolteachers.

Inside of a month, USPS workers will be derided by half the country as lazy freeloaders benefiting from a bloated union whose regulations and benefits are the REAL cause of the mail slowdown.

I'm already seeing it on posts from my state's senators. You'd think these people have hated the USPS their entire lives and it's finally getting its comeuppance.

I get that, and I'm not saying that defending the Postal Service is going to be the magic bullet that destroys Trump's support, but if you had to pick political terrain to fight on, this seems about as good as it's going to get. And even knocking Trump's support down by 1% in the polls (or avoiding a 1% move in his favor) would be significant for the election.

There is no governmental institution that is more popular in the United States. It's completely safe terrain. Democrats probably should be seizing on this as much as they can. If even to not give the GOP room to operate.

[$iljanus]

I, for one, miss Drazzil.

We are all Drazzil now

[Jaymann]

[malchior]

What a show of urgency!



Meanwhile, we are seeing more police officers (it's not just the NYPD) declaring allegiance to the President.

[malchior]

Spoiler:

NEW from @USPS: “We are suspending the removal of collection boxes at this time. All postings on collection boxes will be removed, as we will no longer be pulling any boxes.”

In other governmental chaos news, no one is sure if the removal stoppage really is happening. On Saturday all the regions were re-aligned and the leadership who said they are stopping the removals...is not there anymore.

Representatives at the United States Postal Service's national headquarters in Washington were still unable to confirm whether they would stop removing letter collection boxes as of Saturday afternoon.

Rod Spurgeon, a USPS spokesperson for the service's Western region, told CNN on Friday night that postal employees in 16 states and parts of two others would stop the removal of letter collection boxes until after the election.

But it's unclear whether or not the policy confirmed by Spurgeon is still in effect or if they will be returning the removed letter collection boxes to their previous locations.

That's because the USPS' reorganization plan took effect on Saturday, completely changing the geographical divisions of the entire postal service: the Western region is now significantly bigger in the retail and delivery and the logistics and processing operations.

Before the reorganization, the Western region had consisted of Washington, Oregon, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, Utah, Idaho, Montana, South Dakota, North Dakota, Wyoming, Colorado, Kansas, Iowa, Alaska, Nebraska and small parts of Wisconsin and Missouri, according to Spurgeon.
CNN has reached out to Spurgeon for an update, and repeated inquiries to other regional and state USPS spokespersons went unanswered.

[LawBeefaroni]

Meanwhile, we are seeing more police officers (it's not just the NYPD) declaring allegiance to the President.

That's the idiocy of "defund the police." What did we think was going to happen?

[Carpet_pissr]

My radio said that trump is offering $25B for USPS if the Dems drop their demand for aid to states. The damage that his henchman has done is beyond fixing with money.

Who knows where that $25B would even go at this point?

The National (Trump's) Vig fund, along with the $$ from the Microsoft/TikTok deal.

[Smoove_B]

Meanwhile, we are seeing more police officers (it's not just the NYPD) declaring allegiance to the President.

If that photo doesn't make history books, I'll be amazed. Talk about dystopian - it's funny how when they raise their arms to get a better photo with their phone, it looks like they're saluting him.

[$iljanus]

Ahh, the red hats. The new brownshirts of the 21st century.

[Holman]

That's the idiocy of "defund the police." What did we think was going to happen?

Trump had the bad cops long before BLM or anything else.

[Alefroth]

I, for one, miss Drazzil.

Wonder what happened to him. It would have been interesting to get his reports from Portland.