Election integrity and the transfer of power

[El Guapo]

Good news.

[Ralph-Wiggum]

Which will be overturned by the SC in 3, 2, 1....

[Skinypupy]

I can’t vouch for the validity, but this seems encouraging.

[El Guapo]

Which will be overturned by the SC in 3, 2, 1....

I'm not super worried about that, honestly. The prior decision where SCOTUS had 4 votes for overturning an interpretation of state law by the relevant state court was absolutely concerning, but on the upshot they only had 4 votes for that, and I don't see any reason why this would be any different.

It could well be different after Barrett is confirmed, but she won't be in place before the election.

[YellowKing]

We may have changed the young voter demographic forever with this election.

I confess I've never mailed in a ballot before this election, and the only reason I did so was because of all the uncertainty with Covid. Yet after I did it, all I could think was, "Damn, that was easy. Why haven't I been doing this the whole time?"

I imagine there are a lot of young voters out there coming to the same realization. I'm sure a lot of young people don't typically vote because it's (at least perceived as) kind of a pain in the ass. Once they realize there's an easy option, look out.

[Smoove_B]

I would *hope* one of the good things to come out of this pandemic is that if we make it easier to vote, more people vote. The idea that anyone would be trying to make it harder or more restrictive in a normal year is bonkers. Now? They should be punished. So yeah, hopefully future elections are able to maintain access. Of course I know that screws up how money is being spent and campaign strategies (I voted over a month ago. Joe Biden could reveal himself to be a lizard person at this point and my vote is already in), but good lord. Lowering barriers should be the goal, not raising them.

[Ralph-Wiggum]

I’m not actually super encouraged by those younger voting totals. In Florida, for instance, 1.6 million people aged 18 - 29 voted in 2016. The 250K totals so far is only ~16% of that vote total. Considering how many people are voting early or absentee this year, that doesn’t seem like a great percentage to me...

[Alefroth]

We may have changed the young voter demographic forever with this election.

I confess I've never mailed in a ballot before this election, and the only reason I did so was because of all the uncertainty with Covid. Yet after I did it, all I could think was, "Damn, that was easy. Why haven't I been doing this the whole time?"

I imagine there are a lot of young voters out there coming to the same realization. I'm sure a lot of young people don't typically vote because it's (at least perceived as) kind of a pain in the ass. Once they realize there's an easy option, look out.

I've lived in a state that has had mail only voting for years, and there is still an embarrassing amount of people that can't be bothered.

[Kraken]

We may have changed the young voter demographic forever with this election.

I confess I've never mailed in a ballot before this election, and the only reason I did so was because of all the uncertainty with Covid. Yet after I did it, all I could think was, "Damn, that was easy. Why haven't I been doing this the whole time?"

I imagine there are a lot of young voters out there coming to the same realization. I'm sure a lot of young people don't typically vote because it's (at least perceived as) kind of a pain in the ass. Once they realize there's an easy option, look out.

I've lived in a state that has had mail only voting for years, and there is still an embarrassing amount of people that can't be bothered.

My mail-in ballot was the best-informed I've ever cast, because I had the leisure of researching all the candidates for down-ballot races that I usually pay no heed. County sheriff? We still have counties? Ordinarily I wouldn't have even known that was on the ballot until I got to the polls. This year, I took the time to read up on the incumbent and challenger, and discovered I like the activist (I) challenger better than the (D) incumbent. (In MA, the R Party often doesn't field candidates for minor races.)

[Alefroth]

My mail-in ballot was the best-informed I've ever cast, because I had the leisure of researching all the candidates for down-ballot races that I usually pay no heed.

Totally. I can't think of much that could be done to make it more convenient or advantageous to the voter.

[stessier]

We may have changed the young voter demographic forever with this election.

I confess I've never mailed in a ballot before this election, and the only reason I did so was because of all the uncertainty with Covid. Yet after I did it, all I could think was, "Damn, that was easy. Why haven't I been doing this the whole time?"

I imagine there are a lot of young voters out there coming to the same realization. I'm sure a lot of young people don't typically vote because it's (at least perceived as) kind of a pain in the ass. Once they realize there's an easy option, look out.

My state only changed the rules to allow absentee for everyone for this one election.

[Ralph-Wiggum]

My state only changed the rules to allow absentee for everyone for this one election.

I wonder if there will be a push to keep these rules in place for future elections. It’s obviously very popular. Although the cynic in me thinks that the success of any effort to enact these voting rules permanently may depend on the result in the Graham/Harrison race.

[The Meal]

I can't think of much that could be done to make it more convenient or advantageous to the voter.

Not having to mail or deliver my ballot would be more convenient, but I'm not about to advocate for on-line voting. Though it would be more convenient.

[Defiant]

I can't think of much that could be done to make it more convenient or advantageous to the voter.

Not having to mail or deliver my ballot would be more convenient, but I'm not about to advocate for on-line voting. Though it would be more convenient.

... to Russia.

For anyone under the illusion that it would be a good idea, online voting (at least for anything important) is a terrible, terrible idea.

[Alefroth]

And it would be only marginally more convenient.

[Jaymann]

Trump inadvertently spoke the truth: With these levels of voting we may never elect another Republican.

[YellowKing]

My optimistic side hopes that the Trump years were the rough patch we had to go through in order to achieve a major societal shift towards good.

While Trump did some things to this country that might be irreparable, at least for many years, he was also a catalyst for change. Our complacency as a nation was really stripped bare, and I hope we come out the other side a whole lot wiser for all of our bruises.

[Isgrimnur]

You know the three words that strike the most fear into my heart right now? Lame duck Trump.

[Kraken]

You know the three words that strike the most fear into my heart right now? Lame duck Trump.

One hopes his last days will be consumed with not becoming convicted felon trump. He's gonna need the mother of all golden parachutes.

[El Guapo]

You know the three words that strike the most fear into my heart right now? Lame duck Trump.

One hopes his last days will be consumed with not becoming convicted felon trump. He's gonna need the mother of all golden parachutes.

A couple times recently he's "joked" about how he might leave the country if he loses the election.

[Jaymann]

You know the three words that strike the most fear into my heart right now? Lame duck Trump.

One hopes his last days will be consumed with not becoming convicted felon trump. He's gonna need the mother of all golden parachutes.

A couple times recently he's "joked" about how he might leave the country if he loses the election.

Serbia does not have an extradition treaty...

[Grifman]

I’m not actually super encouraged by those younger voting totals. In Florida, for instance, 1.6 million people aged 18 - 29 voted in 2016. The 250K totals so far is only ~16% of that vote total. Considering how many people are voting early or absentee this year, that doesn’t seem like a great percentage to me...

The young don't have to turn out early to avoid lines on election day because most of them are not afraid of the virus. If they are not afraid of going to a bar, they're not going to be afraid of going to the polls.

[Carpet_pissr]

You know the three words that strike the most fear into my heart right now? Lame duck Trump.

One hopes his last days will be consumed with not becoming convicted felon trump. He's gonna need the mother of all golden parachutes.

Here's maybe an interesting dilemma to ponder if Trump loses.

Does Joe Biden, in the spirit of healing the country, and the ever-widening partisan divide (now even amongst Republicans), pardon The Don? I don't think he would, but SHOULD he, IF the result is a more peaceful transition of power, and more importantly, a potential return to pre-Trump domestic peace? Personally I think that's a very big IF (that Trumpkins would be ameliorated by anything, even a Trump pardon). They would likely claim it was all a setup for some nefarious child fondling, devil worshipping scheme.

I'm sad to admit that with no guarantee of healing, I hope to hell it doesn't go down like that. I do sincerely, and honestly believe we need to take some kind of action to try and heal the country, on several fronts, but a pardon of the monster we've apparently created would also piss a LOT of people off. You MAYBE get some peace and quiet for a while from Trumpkins with a pardon, but you DEFINITELY get never-Trumpers riled up and mad as hell as a result.

[Victoria Raverna]

You know the three words that strike the most fear into my heart right now? Lame duck Trump.

One hopes his last days will be consumed with not becoming convicted felon trump. He's gonna need the mother of all golden parachutes.

Here's maybe an interesting dilemma to ponder if Trump loses.

Does Joe Biden, in the spirit of healing the country, and the ever-widening partisan divide (now even amongst Republicans), pardon The Don? I don't think he would, but SHOULD he, IF the result is a more peaceful transition of power, and more importantly, a potential return to pre-Trump domestic peace? Personally I think that's a very big IF (that Trumpkins would be ameliorated by anything, even a Trump pardon). They would likely claim it was all a setup for some nefarious child fondling, devil worshipping scheme.

I'm sad to admit that with no guarantee of healing, I hope to hell it doesn't go down like that. I do sincerely, and honestly believe we need to take some kind of action to try and heal the country, on several fronts, but a pardon of the monster we've apparently created would also piss a LOT of people off. You MAYBE get some peace and quiet for a while from Trumpkins with a pardon, but you DEFINITELY get never-Trumpers riled up and mad as hell as a result.

Can Trump pardon himself before he leaves office? Or maybe Trump resigns then Pence pardon Trump?

[Jaymann]

You know the three words that strike the most fear into my heart right now? Lame duck Trump.

One hopes his last days will be consumed with not becoming convicted felon trump. He's gonna need the mother of all golden parachutes.

Here's maybe an interesting dilemma to ponder if Trump loses.

Does Joe Biden, in the spirit of healing the country, and the ever-widening partisan divide (now even amongst Republicans), pardon The Don? I don't think he would, but SHOULD he, IF the result is a more peaceful transition of power, and more importantly, a potential return to pre-Trump domestic peace? Personally I think that's a very big IF (that Trumpkins would be ameliorated by anything, even a Trump pardon). They would likely claim it was all a setup for some nefarious child fondling, devil worshipping scheme.

I'm sad to admit that with no guarantee of healing, I hope to hell it doesn't go down like that. I do sincerely, and honestly believe we need to take some kind of action to try and heal the country, on several fronts, but a pardon of the monster we've apparently created would also piss a LOT of people off. You MAYBE get some peace and quiet for a while from Trumpkins with a pardon, but you DEFINITELY get never-Trumpers riled up and mad as hell as a result.

Or maybe Trump resigns then Pence pardon Trump?

It worked for Nixon.

[LordMortis]

Does Joe Biden, in the spirit of healing the country, and the ever-widening partisan divide (now even amongst Republicans), pardon The Don? I don't think he would, but SHOULD he, IF the result is a more peaceful transition of power, and more importantly, a potential return to pre-Trump domestic peace? Personally I think that's a very big IF (that Trumpkins would be ameliorated by anything, even a Trump pardon). They would likely claim it was all a setup for some nefarious child fondling, devil worshipping scheme.

The amount of disaffected who will turn on both parties and therefore a commitment to being civil would be immense, I'd think.

[Zarathud]

Trump went after Joe’s son, so I expect no pardon. There may be lesser prosecution but Kamela Harris as VP suggests some consequences to Trump.

[Paingod]

Trump went after Joe’s son, so I rxpect no pardon.

Except Joe is likely above petty revenge plots and finds Trump's bluster and attacks pathetic, not enraging.

I sincerely hope, with every fiber, that Trump and his cronies are dragged through legal razor-wire for the next decade. The US needs healing, but to get there we need to amputate the cancer - not give it a pass and pretend it won't come back.

You can bet your ass that if they're not decimated after 2020, the Trump family will come back into politics; they've had a taste of what it's like to shape policy* and reap the benefits. I worry that the GOP will put forth Ivanka as their first woman for president, and she might actually get it. Their whole family needs to be burned so badly by this that they never consider trying.

Edit: Corrected policy, not police

[YellowKing]

A pardon would effectively be paying a ransom. It would only encourage future corruption and abuses of power. I say absolutely not. I don't care if the country goes to war over it. We cannot let Trumpism be the new standard for the Republican party.

[Kraken]

Trump went after Joe’s son, so I rxpect no pardon.

Except Joe is likely above petty revenge plots and finds Trump's bluster and attacks pathetic, not enraging.

I sincerely hope, with every fiber, that Trump and his cronies are dragged through legal razor-wire for the next decade. The US needs healing, but to get there we need to amputate the cancer - not give it a pass and pretend it won't come back.

You can bet your ass that if they're not decimated after 2020, the Trump family will come back into politics; they've had a taste of what it's like to shape police and reap the benefits. I worry that the GOP will put forth Ivanka as their first woman for president, and she might actually get it. Their whole family needs to be burned so badly by this that they never consider trying.

Agreed. There must be consequences for arrogant lawlessness. trump has spent his life dodging such consequences and will probably never go to prison, regardless of what specific charges he's convicted of. But it would be nice if he's ultimately driven to self-exile.

[Isgrimnur]

Boston

A Boston man has been arrested in connection with a fire that was set inside a ballot drop box in the city, according to police.

The Boston Election Department notified the Secretary of the Commonwealth's Office that the fire was set at about 4 a.m. Sunday in the ballot drop box outside of the Boston Public Library's main branch in Copley Square.

Boston police said officers responded at 4:11 a.m. to the area of 700 Boylston St., which is the location of the library's main branch. When they arrived at the scene, the officers saw Boston firefighters tending to smoke coming from the ballot box.
...
Police released photos of a suspect Sunday evening, and officers on patrol in the area of Copley Square saw a man matching the description at about 10:50 p.m. While speaking with the man, 39-year-old Worldy Armand, police discovered that he had an active warrant out of Ipswich District Court for receiving stolen property and took him into custody.

While he was in police custody, members of the fire investigation unit were able to identify Armand as the suspect in the ballot box fire and charged him with willful and malicious burning.

[Holman]

Here's maybe an interesting dilemma to ponder if Trump loses.

Does Joe Biden, in the spirit of healing the country, and the ever-widening partisan divide (now even amongst Republicans), pardon The Don? I don't think he would, but SHOULD he, IF the result is a more peaceful transition of power, and more importantly, a potential return to pre-Trump domestic peace? Personally I think that's a very big IF (that Trumpkins would be ameliorated by anything, even a Trump pardon). They would likely claim it was all a setup for some nefarious child fondling, devil worshipping scheme.

I'm sad to admit that with no guarantee of healing, I hope to hell it doesn't go down like that. I do sincerely, and honestly believe we need to take some kind of action to try and heal the country, on several fronts, but a pardon of the monster we've apparently created would also piss a LOT of people off. You MAYBE get some peace and quiet for a while from Trumpkins with a pardon, but you DEFINITELY get never-Trumpers riled up and mad as hell as a result.

Pardoning Trump and his cronies wouldn't heal anything. It would convince many, many more people that the system is broken and that the powerful always escape consequences. To see a Democrat do it would demoralize Democrats (the only side currently interested in making the system fair) and embolden Republicans. The end result would be more cynicism and a more broken country.

In the long run, justice heals. And seeing Trump et al face consequences is the only thing that might save Republicans from themselves.

[LawBeefaroni]

Here's maybe an interesting dilemma to ponder if Trump loses.

Does Joe Biden, in the spirit of healing the country, and the ever-widening partisan divide (now even amongst Republicans), pardon The Don? I don't think he would, but SHOULD he, IF the result is a more peaceful transition of power, and more importantly, a potential return to pre-Trump domestic peace? Personally I think that's a very big IF (that Trumpkins would be ameliorated by anything, even a Trump pardon). They would likely claim it was all a setup for some nefarious child fondling, devil worshipping scheme.

I'm sad to admit that with no guarantee of healing, I hope to hell it doesn't go down like that. I do sincerely, and honestly believe we need to take some kind of action to try and heal the country, on several fronts, but a pardon of the monster we've apparently created would also piss a LOT of people off. You MAYBE get some peace and quiet for a while from Trumpkins with a pardon, but you DEFINITELY get never-Trumpers riled up and mad as hell as a result.

Pardoning Trump and his cronies wouldn't heal anything. It would convince many, many more people that the system is broken and that the powerful always escape consequences. To see a Democrat do it would demoralize Democrats (the only side currently interested in making the system fair) and embolden Republicans. The end result would be more cynicism and a more broken country.

In the long run, justice heals. And seeing Trump et al face consequences is the only thing that might save Republicans from themselves.

If Trump faces any legal consequences for his actions in office, it will be years, probably a decade, away. It will most likely be posthumous.

[Holman]

Here's maybe an interesting dilemma to ponder if Trump loses.

Does Joe Biden, in the spirit of healing the country, and the ever-widening partisan divide (now even amongst Republicans), pardon The Don? I don't think he would, but SHOULD he, IF the result is a more peaceful transition of power, and more importantly, a potential return to pre-Trump domestic peace? Personally I think that's a very big IF (that Trumpkins would be ameliorated by anything, even a Trump pardon). They would likely claim it was all a setup for some nefarious child fondling, devil worshipping scheme.

I'm sad to admit that with no guarantee of healing, I hope to hell it doesn't go down like that. I do sincerely, and honestly believe we need to take some kind of action to try and heal the country, on several fronts, but a pardon of the monster we've apparently created would also piss a LOT of people off. You MAYBE get some peace and quiet for a while from Trumpkins with a pardon, but you DEFINITELY get never-Trumpers riled up and mad as hell as a result.

Pardoning Trump and his cronies wouldn't heal anything. It would convince many, many more people that the system is broken and that the powerful always escape consequences. To see a Democrat do it would demoralize Democrats (the only side currently interested in making the system fair) and embolden Republicans. The end result would be more cynicism and a more broken country.

In the long run, justice heals. And seeing Trump et al face consequences is the only thing that might save Republicans from themselves.

If Trump faces any legal consequences for his actions in office, it will be years, probably a decade, away. It will most likely be posthumous.

There's plenty of legal exposure to go around.

[El Guapo]

Here's maybe an interesting dilemma to ponder if Trump loses.

Does Joe Biden, in the spirit of healing the country, and the ever-widening partisan divide (now even amongst Republicans), pardon The Don? I don't think he would, but SHOULD he, IF the result is a more peaceful transition of power, and more importantly, a potential return to pre-Trump domestic peace? Personally I think that's a very big IF (that Trumpkins would be ameliorated by anything, even a Trump pardon). They would likely claim it was all a setup for some nefarious child fondling, devil worshipping scheme.

I'm sad to admit that with no guarantee of healing, I hope to hell it doesn't go down like that. I do sincerely, and honestly believe we need to take some kind of action to try and heal the country, on several fronts, but a pardon of the monster we've apparently created would also piss a LOT of people off. You MAYBE get some peace and quiet for a while from Trumpkins with a pardon, but you DEFINITELY get never-Trumpers riled up and mad as hell as a result.

Pardoning Trump and his cronies wouldn't heal anything. It would convince many, many more people that the system is broken and that the powerful always escape consequences. To see a Democrat do it would demoralize Democrats (the only side currently interested in making the system fair) and embolden Republicans. The end result would be more cynicism and a more broken country.

In the long run, justice heals. And seeing Trump et al face consequences is the only thing that might save Republicans from themselves.

If Trump faces any legal consequences for his actions in office, it will be years, probably a decade, away. It will most likely be posthumous.

This I disagree with. I think it's more likely than not that Trump gets indicted by the end of 2022. That could be by NY state / local prosecutors, though I think that their involvement will push DoJ towards investigating as well, even if Biden's AG is cautious.

Unless you're talking about when Trump might plausibly go to jail, which might be another year or two. This also assumes that he doesn't leave the country, which is not a given.

[wonderpug]

I see him fleeing the country or killing himself before ever risking facing a consequence.

[LordMortis]

I see him fleeing the country or killing himself before ever risking facing a consequence.

If for whatever reason shit becomes real, I see him fleeing the country and still trying to aim the deplorable. I don't see shit becoming real enough to kill himself. I think his narcissism/megalomania is likely too deeply rooted in psychosis to feel trapped enough to kill himself no matter what he may have done and he's not a David Koresch or Jim Jones martyr and he's not just a guy who got in too deep and has nowhere left to go. He's decades long veteran of legal corruption and financial malfeasance tied to the top tiers of social society. How deep does that corruption and malfeasance go? I dunno but I don't doubt it's flee deep, I can't see anything in his being that suggests there is a suicide deep, no matter how deep it may be. OtOH, I can see him being someone else loose end and tripping on poison in the shower from a fourth story window and the conspiracy nuts can have a field day with that.

[Skinypupy]

Florida rejecting ballots of black and Hispanic voters at twice the rate of white voters.

So weird how this keeps happening to Biden-heavy demographics in swing states! And is why I won’t sleep well until January.

[Skinypupy]

Unless this election is a complete blowout, it's going to get stolen. A thread:



Sleep tight, everyone.

[malchior]

I wanted to think this was hysteria last night but then I came around on this point of view. Roberts mooring the "center" on Voting Rights is probably not good and if we fail the test we are probably an autocracy. I'm not immediately concerned though because as I noted in the other thread if they throw the election it's the end of the United States. I think they know that but they'll unlock a bevy of voter suppression and manipulation schemes throughout any state run by Republicans to maximize the EC advantage they have. That said, we have to be *extremely* concerned about 2024. The Democrats MUST reform the court in any way possible to protect Democracy.