Election integrity and the transfer of power

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$iljanus
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by $iljanus »

Well you know how we might have laughed at Trump bragging about secret powers he had that no one knows about? Well on CBS Sunday Morning today they aired an interesting story about something I never knew about called PEAD’s....

Feelings of fear and unease would not be unwarranted right now.

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/ ... -documents
Presidential Emergency Action Documents (PEADs) are executive orders, proclamations, and messages to Congress that are prepared in anticipation of a range of emergency scenarios, so that they are ready to sign and put into effect the moment one of those scenarios comes to pass. First created during the Eisenhower Administration as part of continuity-of-government plans in case of a nuclear attack, PEADs have since been expanded for use in other emergency situations where the normal operation of government is impaired. As one recent government document describes them, they are designed “to implement extraordinary presidential authority in response to extraordinary situations.”

PEADs are classified “secret,” and no PEAD has ever been declassified or leaked. Indeed, it appears that they are not even subject to congressional oversight. Although the law requires the executive branch to report even the most sensitive covert military and intelligence operations to at least some members of Congress, there is no such disclosure requirement for PEADs, and no evidence that the documents have ever been shared with relevant congressional committees.

Although PEADs themselves remain a well-kept secret, over the years a number of unclassified or de-classified documents have become available that discuss PEADs. Through these documents, we know that there were 56 PEADs in effect as of 2018, up from 48 a couple of decades earlier. PEADs undergo periodic revision; although we do not know what PEADs contain today, we know that PEADs in past years—

authorized detention of “alien enemies” and other “dangerous persons” within the United States;
suspended the writ of habeas corpus by presidential order;
provided for various forms of martial law;
issued a general warrant permitting search and seizure of persons and property;
established military areas such as those created during World War II;
suspended production of the Federal Register;
declared a State of War; and
authorized censorship of news reports.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by malchior »

I wouldn't call them secret powers. I'd call them secret plans for powers in case of an emergency. That said, you can expect that he has minions digging through them now and preparing to potentially enact some of them. To be sprung on the run up to election or right after he whips up chaos. We are in the most dangerous moment of our lives beyond the pandemic and most people still don't get the mounting danger.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Smoove_B »

Can't wait to see the number of pardons he makes after the election. Well, assuming all current efforts fail and Biden is the winner.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by malchior »

Anyone care to handicap the chance he shows up? I'd rate it as low chance.

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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Jaymann »

So is contempt of Congress still a thing?
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by malchior »

Jaymann wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:26 am So is contempt of Congress still a thing?
There are a couple of Congressmen trying to pass a rule change to allow them to use inherent contempt but Pelosi probably isn't going to allow it. It was pretty much built on fines that couldn't be paid out of governmental funds. Essentially hit them in the personal pocket book. Which might not matter to multi-millionaires like DeJoy anyway.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by malchior »

Smoove_B wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:12 am Can't wait to see the number of pardons he makes after the election. Well, assuming all current efforts fail and Biden is the winner.
The list is going to be long...heck he is talking about pardoning Snowden... :shock:
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Jaymann »

malchior wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 12:39 pm
Smoove_B wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:12 am Can't wait to see the number of pardons he makes after the election. Well, assuming all current efforts fail and Biden is the winner.
The list is going to be long...heck he is talking about pardoning Snowden... :shock:
Wow, talk about strange bedfellows.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by malchior »

Jaymann wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 12:41 pm
malchior wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 12:39 pm
Smoove_B wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:12 am Can't wait to see the number of pardons he makes after the election. Well, assuming all current efforts fail and Biden is the winner.
The list is going to be long...heck he is talking about pardoning Snowden... :shock:
Wow, talk about strange bedfellows.
Maybe...Maybe not. In honesty, Snowden is divisive and fits nicely in Trump's deep state narrative.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Kraken »

malchior wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:09 am I wouldn't call them secret powers. I'd call them secret plans for powers in case of an emergency. That said, you can expect that he has minions digging through them now and preparing to potentially enact some of them. To be sprung on the run up to election or right after he whips up chaos. We are in the most dangerous moment of our lives beyond the pandemic and most people still don't get the mounting danger.
Here's what Heather Cox Richardson wrote about PEADs back in April. I can't link Facebook posts so I'm quoting the whole thing.
Lots of you are asking about the PEADs mentioned on television this morning. For those of you who are concerned, here's what I wrote about them in April, after an op-ed about them appeared in the New York Times. This post also features a line from Trump saying that the Democrats "want to try and win an election that they shouldn’t be allowed to win," which speaks to the topic of my post of last night, and which may be of interest to some of you, as well. I am not reposting the notes to the April 12 post here, but they are on the post itself, which you can find by using the search tool on this page. H.

April 12, 2020 (Sunday)

Yesterday, the New York Times ran an op-ed by Elizabeth Goitein and Andrew Boyle of the highly-regarded Brennan Center for Justice at New York University Law School, calling our attention to the fact that Trump has at his disposal extraordinary emergency powers. The authors tell us what they have been able to discover about a highly classified series of documents called “presidential emergency action documents,” or PEADs.

These documents are drafts of laws, executive orders, and proclamations that could be used in case of emergency. The government began to hold these drafts during the Eisenhower administration out of fear that a nuclear attack would require an immediate response. We know very little about what is in them, but the declassification of a few of them has revealed that, if implemented, they would allow the president to arrest people at will, jail “subversive” citizens, and declare martial law.

While people are alarmed at the revelation that such PEADs exist, it’s actually no secret that the president can unleash extraordinary powers in times of emergency through other means. Even without the PEADs, the president can seize assets, have people arrested, shut down electronic communications, and so on, and there is little limit to how and when these powers can be used. Under the National Emergencies Act, passed in 1976, in any emergency declaration the president has to specify which powers he intends to use, and tell Congress every six months how much the government has spent on the emergency.

Congress can override the president’s declaration and must reauthorize it every six months, and the emergency declaration expires after a year unless the president renews it. But the system has permitted "emergencies" to take root unchecked. Currently, more than thirty emergency declarations are in effect in America, and Congress has made no effort to end them.

Emergency powers are not necessarily a bad thing: a nation’s leader must be able to respond quickly to a crisis. The problem is the existence of emergency powers that have no legal guardrails. Indeed, the authors of the New York Times op-ed are not necessarily against the draft orders; they simply want Congress to oversee these secret PEADs.

And that’s the rub. The problem the op-ed identifies is not really the PEADs. The problem is that Trump is the man who has them at his disposal.

Throughout his presidency, Trump has worked to expand his power, and the novel coronavirus crisis is encouraging this inclination.

Just recently, he has fired the intelligence community inspector general Michael Atkinson, admitting openly that he did so to retaliate because Atkinson alerted House Intelligence Committee chair Adam Schiff that then-acting Director of National Intelligence Joseph Maguire was withholding a whistleblower complaint that, by law, he had to turn over to Congress.

Trump has announced he will not comply with the oversight provisions in the $2.2 trillion coronavirus relief package.
His lawyers are currently arguing that the president and those who work for him do not have to comply with subpoenas to turn over his financial records to Congress or to a New York official investigation because the president is immune from a criminal investigation while in office—even if he shoots someone on Fifth Avenue (yes, one of the judges who rules on the issue asked about that, specifically). [NOTE: THIS CASE WAS RECENTLY DECIDED AGAINST THE PRESIDENT]

Trump demands that White House officials praise him in public and won’t put up with criticism. Just tonight he retweeted a tweet calling for the firing of top infectious disease expert Anthony Fauci, who recently said that the administration’s slow response to the novel coronavirus has cost lives.

Last week, complaining about the media coverage of his administration’s response to the novel coronavirus, he said that Democrats “want to make Trump look as bad as they can, because they want to try and win an election that they shouldn’t be allowed to win based on the fact that we have done a great job.”

“An election that they shouldn’t be allowed to win.”

It seems clear that emergency powers in the hands of such a man could enable him to destroy our democracy.

But here’s what’s key to remember: Our system has a built-in remedy for a president who abuses his power. Our Constitution requires Congress to check a runaway president. The House of Representatives is trying hard to do so, but the Republican Senate refuses.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell has consistently supported Trump as he has attacked our democracy, and a terrific piece by Jane Mayer in the New Yorker today explores why. In a piece entitled “How Mitch McConnell Became Trump’s Enabler-in-Chief,” Mayer argues that McConnell is determined to wield power above all else, and believes that the only way to do that is to control huge financial resources to get his party’s candidates elected. To gather those resources, he needs to work with wealthy donors, including business leaders for whom he does favors.

McConnell is virtually shutting down Congress to avoid taking up anything that would upset Republican donors. At the end of 2019,” Mayer writes, “more than two hundred and seventy-five bills, passed by the House of Representatives with bipartisan support, were sitting dormant on McConnell’s desk.” These included an enormously popular bill for lowering the costs of prescription drugs, but McConnell, who gets more contributions from the pharmaceutical industry than any other senator, refused to take it up, saying he opposes “socialist price controls.”

Political scientist Norm Ornstein of the right-leaning American Enterprise Institute says McConnell “will go down in history as one of the most significant people in destroying the fundamentals of our constitutional democracy.” He told Mayer, “There isn’t anyone remotely close. There’s nobody as corrupt, in terms of violating the norms of government.”

McConnell is no fan of Trump, but needs him. McConnell is enormously unpopular in his home state of Kentucky. Voters there love Trump, though, and McConnell's ratings go up whenever he bolsters the president. So while he works to keep money flowing into the coffers of Republican Party leaders, McConnell is careful not to cross Trump, no matter what he does. In turn, his fellow Republicans cannot buck McConnell without losing access to the money and favors that will keep them in office.

It is indeed dangerous that Trump has such sweeping emergency powers at his disposal, but the problem is not the emergency powers. The problem is the president and the Republican senators, who could check Trump’s increasing authoritarianism at any time, if only they wanted to.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by $iljanus »

I get the purpose for PEADs in states of emergency. A nuclear strike, nationwide natural disaster, zombie apocalypse, etc.

But the current guy is no Eisenhower and especially with the lack of any Congressional oversight...
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Smoove_B »

Where does this even go? Am I taking crazy pills?
Voters in North Carolina have received absentee ballot request forms in the mail with Trump's face on them

The mailer was sent out by the North Carolina Republican Party, press secretary Tim Wigginton told CNN. The state party has sent several statewide mailers "to make it easier for interested voters to participate," Wigginton said.

"We want our voters to know they can utilize this tool to cast their ballot in an easy, safe and secure manner. It is important to note that the North Carolina system requires a voter to actively solicit a ballot and go through an easy but important verification process to request a ballot," he added. "We along with President Trump oppose an all-mail election process where voters are mailed ballots without a prior request and authentication."
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Holman »

In Philadelphia there's a plan (if they can find the money) to open more than a dozen satellite City Commissioner offices in the run-up to the election. These would allow citizens to register to vote, receive an absentee ballot, and submit that ballot all in the same visit. Those ballots would be collected immediately with no need to go through the mail.

All the cities Trump's postal guy is targeting should do this.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

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Smoove_B wrote:Where does this even go? Am I taking crazy pills?
Nope, I got one in the mail the other day. I referred to it in another post. They took one of Trump's tweets saying absentee voting was fine, then blurred out the next line where he said mail-in voting was fraudulent, since they are the same fucking thing.

My hatred for NC Republicans knows no bounds.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

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Congress is going postal
Speaker Nancy Pelosi is calling the House back into session over the crisis at the U.S. Postal Service, setting up a political showdown amid growing concerns that the Trump White House is trying to undermine the agency ahead of the election.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Isgrimnur »

Which will be moot.

Roll Call
The Senate has given up on its August legislative session without any agreement on a new COVID-19 relief bill as jet fumes — leaving town in Senate parlance — have overtaken any hope for a bipartisan deal.

“If the speaker of the House and the minority leader of the Senate decide to finally let another rescue package move forward for workers and for families, it would take bipartisan consent to meet for legislative business sooner than scheduled,” Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said Thursday.

The reality is that any senator, including the roughly 20 members of McConnell’s own conference who are of the belief that enough action has already been taken to respond to the pandemic’s economic consequences, could block action before Labor Day.
...
“As has been the case, the senators would receive at least 24 hours notice before any unanticipated votes,” McConnell said. “The American people need more help, coronavirus is not finished with our country, so Congress cannot be finished helping our people.”

The majority leader moved to limit debate on a number of Trump’s judicial nominations before shutting down the floor, meaning that the scheduled business on the floor after Labor Day will be another steady drumbeat of the president’s picks for lifetime appointments to the federal bench.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Octavious »

Smoove_B wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:12 am Can't wait to see the number of pardons he makes after the election. Well, assuming all current efforts fail and Biden is the winner.
I personally don't have much hope of him losing. I'm flooded with Trump supporters no matter where I go and I can only imagine what it's like when you go to a more republican state. Right outside my work they setup a stand today with signs about defending Trump. I flipped them off as I drove past. I should go ask them if they have jobs. That's always a favorite comment from that group. :P
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Octavious wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:36 am
Smoove_B wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:12 am Can't wait to see the number of pardons he makes after the election. Well, assuming all current efforts fail and Biden is the winner.
I personally don't have much hope of him losing. I'm flooded with Trump supporters no matter where I go and I can only imagine what it's like when you go to a more republican state.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

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Octavious wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:36 am
Smoove_B wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:12 am Can't wait to see the number of pardons he makes after the election. Well, assuming all current efforts fail and Biden is the winner.
I personally don't have much hope of him losing. I'm flooded with Trump supporters no matter where I go and I can only imagine what it's like when you go to a more republican state. Right outside my work they setup a stand today with signs about defending Trump. I flipped them off as I drove past. I should go ask them if they have jobs. That's always a favorite comment from that group. :P
In my various commutes I see businesses with "America First" signs all over the place as I mentally tick off one by one places I won't go anymore, including Meijer whom spearheaded Amash' exit from Congress. They were my go to grocer. We voted in Whitmer, so there's hope but it's hard to see with all of the vocal and visible support.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by stessier »

Take your time SC, I guess.
COLUMBIA, S.C. (WIS-TV) —
On Monday, South Carolina Senate President Harvey Peeler (R-Cherokee) announced that state senators will return to session on Sept. 2 to discuss updating election laws.

More specifically, the state Senate will consider changes to the laws that will allow citizens to vote safely in November due to COVID-19.

(State Election Commission recommends 'immediate' action ahead of November elections)

“If the COVID-19 pandemic is still prevalent in our State, the Senate must make plans to protect the voter and the vote,” said Peeler in a statement released Monday. “We don’t know what the situation will be like in November, but we need to prepare for safe and secure voting.”

This content is imported from Twitter. You may be able to find the same content in another format, or you may be able to find more information, at their web site.

In May, Gov. Henry McMaster signed a bill into law that allowed South Carolina voters to submit absentee votes for the June primaries because of the pandemic. Some of those ballots were sent in by mail.

Peeler said he is hopeful the General Assembly can come to an agreement.

SC Election Commission spokesman Chris Whitmire said the SEC and counties would have enough time to implement and execute absentee voting that would allow the pandemic as an excuse if that is what the legislature decides to do next month.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by gbasden »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:53 am
Octavious wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:36 am
Smoove_B wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:12 am Can't wait to see the number of pardons he makes after the election. Well, assuming all current efforts fail and Biden is the winner.
I personally don't have much hope of him losing. I'm flooded with Trump supporters no matter where I go and I can only imagine what it's like when you go to a more republican state.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Octavious »

gbasden wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:46 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:53 am
Octavious wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:36 am
Smoove_B wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:12 am Can't wait to see the number of pardons he makes after the election. Well, assuming all current efforts fail and Biden is the winner.
I personally don't have much hope of him losing. I'm flooded with Trump supporters no matter where I go and I can only imagine what it's like when you go to a more republican state.
Hope and fight for the best, prepare for the worst.
Sharpen the pitchforks and oil up the torches just in case.
Well something would have to go VERY wrong for him to win Jersey. So at least all these idiots are just wasting their time. This weekend they had a Trump boat parade in the lake by my house. Despite how the news tried to spin it the turnout was very good. I have pictures from all the aholes on the FB group from the town. This has always been a very republican area so I keep on trying to having that in mind. I've yet to see a single Biden sign anywhere. I know I'm too scared to put one up in my town.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by malchior »

stessier wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:43 pm Take your time SC, I guess.
I get a real...make noise...but not effort vibe from this.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Kraken »

Octavious wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:10 pm
gbasden wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:46 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:53 am
Octavious wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:36 am
Smoove_B wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:12 am Can't wait to see the number of pardons he makes after the election. Well, assuming all current efforts fail and Biden is the winner.
I personally don't have much hope of him losing. I'm flooded with Trump supporters no matter where I go and I can only imagine what it's like when you go to a more republican state.
Hope and fight for the best, prepare for the worst.
Sharpen the pitchforks and oil up the torches just in case.
Well something would have to go VERY wrong for him to win Jersey. So at least all these idiots are just wasting their time. This weekend they had a Trump boat parade in the lake by my house. Despite how the news tried to spin it the turnout was very good. I have pictures from all the aholes on the FB group from the town. This has always been a very republican area so I keep on trying to having that in mind. I've yet to see a single Biden sign anywhere. I know I'm too scared to put one up in my town.
Counterpoint: I live in a Republican-infested town in a deep blue state. Ordinarily trump signs sprout like weeds in my neighborhood; in the past couple of months, though, I've seen an encouraging number of BLM signs, rainbow flags, no-place-for-hate, and yes, even a couple of Biden signs. The libs might be (just barely) a minority here, but we're sick of their shit. After the primaries are over I'm going to add a sign of my own to the festivities.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

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For what it's worth, I've seen nothing. No Trump, no Biden, nothing.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

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Blackhawk wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:42 pmFor what it's worth, I've seen nothing. No Trump, no Biden, nothing.
I have a ~25 mile drive to and from work through rural Maine. I pass maybe 15 Trump signs and 1 Biden sign across something like 200 homes I might go by. People are not storming the gates to declare support - for anyone.

I could swear that in 2016 I saw WAY more Trump signs than I do now. Heck, in a field there was a billboard-sized on someone erected. It stayed up for a couple years before someone vandalized it and then it was up another 6 months before it was knocked it over. It hasn't been stood up since and all I see as I drive by is just a couple wooden legs sticking up out of the grass.

I don't think we're in full feeding frenzy mode yet. Right now we're looking at long-time supporters and probably donors with signs - people who went out of their way to get a sign. Eventually the volunteers will fan out and actively hand out yard signs to increase volume.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

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Is it any surprise that Michigan is being targeted for lots of postal sorting machine removals that could reduce capacity by 20%?
The U.S. Postal Service has removed at least 10 automated mail-sorting machines throughout Michigan facilities this summer, lowering first-class mail-processing capacity by more than 300,000 letters per hour, postal worker union leaders told Crain's.

At least three bar code sorting machines have been removed from the Postal Service's Fort Street facility in Detroit, said Keith Combs, president of the American Postal Workers Union's Detroit district.

At the U.S. Postal Service's Michigan Metroplex in Pontiac, two delivery bar code sorting machines have been removed from the 900,000-square-foot facility, said Roscoe Woods, president of APWU's Local 480-481.

In Grand Rapids, two bar code sorting machines have been removed from the facility there and there are plans to take three more, leaving 21 machines, said Amy Puhalski, president of APWU's Western Michigan Area Local 281.

Another two machines that sort flat mail items such as magazines have been removed from the Grand Rapids facility, Puhalski said.

One flat sorter in Detroit also has been removed in recent weeks, Combs said.

Each machine has the capacity to process at least 32,000 pieces of mail each hour and some are operated 20 hours per day, sorting mail into the order in which it is delivered on the street through a process at USPS known as "delivery point sequencing," according to the union leaders.

"It will cause some delays" in mail service, Combs told Crain's.

In one hour, all 10 machines could sort 320,000 pieces of mail or 2.5 million envelopes in a single eight-hour shift. The Detroit and Pontiac facilities are operating three shifts, union leaders said.

"I would say that's a significant hit in their processing ability, considering the fact they can't clear the volume with the machines they have," Woods told Crain's.

The other three bar code-scanning machines in Grand Rapids are scheduled to be removed over the next three weeks, potentially reducing mail-processing capacity in west Michigan by nearly 20 percent, Puhalski said.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Scraper »

Paingod wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 7:22 am
Blackhawk wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:42 pmFor what it's worth, I've seen nothing. No Trump, no Biden, nothing.
I have a ~25 mile drive to and from work through rural Maine. I pass maybe 15 Trump signs and 1 Biden sign across something like 200 homes I might go by. People are not storming the gates to declare support - for anyone.

I could swear that in 2016 I saw WAY more Trump signs than I do now. Heck, in a field there was a billboard-sized on someone erected. It stayed up for a couple years before someone vandalized it and then it was up another 6 months before it was knocked it over. It hasn't been stood up since and all I see as I drive by is just a couple wooden legs sticking up out of the grass.

I don't think we're in full feeding frenzy mode yet. Right now we're looking at long-time supporters and probably donors with signs - people who went out of their way to get a sign. Eventually the volunteers will fan out and actively hand out yard signs to increase volume.
Don't read too much into the sign. For one thing signs don't vote. I can't stress this enough, SIGNS DON'T VOTE. For another there hasn't been any official Biden/Harris signs released yet. Sure there have been Biden signs, but campaigns don't tend to fully spend on signs until the ticket is finalized.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Ralph-Wiggum »

What I don't understand: is there at least some flimsy excuse for why they would be removing these mail sorting machines? Has anyone given a reason for why these machines are being removed other than the seemingly obvious goal of slowing down the mail?
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

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Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:24 am What I don't understand: is there at least some flimsy excuse for why they would be removing these mail sorting machines? Has anyone given a reason for why these machines are being removed other than the seemingly obvious goal of slowing down the mail?


The suggestion over the weekend by local congressman Paul Mitchell is that democrats are doing this to hold the USPS hostage for $25 Billion.

I have no idea where the directives are coming from or the rationale behind them but the GOP is definitely trying to control the narrative in the same way the Democrats are. Both sides are suggesting them are intentionally destroying the USPS ahead of the elections for political gain at your expense.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by malchior »

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:24 am What I don't understand: is there at least some flimsy excuse for why they would be removing these mail sorting machines? Has anyone given a reason for why these machines are being removed other than the seemingly obvious goal of slowing down the mail?
Mark Meadows on Jake Tapper gave an indication -- which was almost certainly complete bullshit -- that this was planned maintenance and streamlining to save money. It's all about 'saving the Postal Service' which is a 'financial boondoggle'. It's bullshit all the way down.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by LawBeefaroni »

LordMortis wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:05 am

I have no idea where the directives are coming from or the rationale behind them but the GOP is definitely trying to control the narrative in the same way the Democrats are. Both sides are suggesting them are intentionally destroying the USPS ahead of the elections for political gain at your expense.

But only one side appointed Louis DeJoy.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by LawBeefaroni »

malchior wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:24 am
Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:24 am What I don't understand: is there at least some flimsy excuse for why they would be removing these mail sorting machines? Has anyone given a reason for why these machines are being removed other than the seemingly obvious goal of slowing down the mail?
Mark Meadows on Jake Tapper gave an indication -- which was almost certainly complete bullshit -- that this was planned maintenance and streamlining to save money. It's all about 'saving the Postal Service' which is a 'financial boondoggle'. It's bullshit all the way down.
If the USPS were a private company, I'd say that the PE investors were tearing it down for liquidation.

The sorting machines are integral to any efficiency and performance.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Smoove_B »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:31 amThe sorting machines are integral to any efficiency and performance.
And security. After the anthrax attacks in October of 2001, these large sorting machines were upgraded to include sensors that are "sniffing" for contaminants as part of the sorting.

But no one is talking about that...yet.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Ralph-Wiggum »

malchior wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:24 am Mark Meadows on Jake Tapper gave an indication -- which was almost certainly complete bullshit -- that this was planned maintenance and streamlining to save money.
But I guess I don't understand in what world removing presumably already paid for mail sorting machines saves money. On electricity? Or maintenance?
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by El Guapo »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:30 am
LordMortis wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:05 am

I have no idea where the directives are coming from or the rationale behind them but the GOP is definitely trying to control the narrative in the same way the Democrats are. Both sides are suggesting them are intentionally destroying the USPS ahead of the elections for political gain at your expense.

But only one side appointed Louis DeJoy.
This is a classic Trump move. Just accuse your opponent of the same thing, even if it's transparent nonsense, to hopefully generate lots of news stories with the headline "Democrats and Trump Trade Charges on USPS Problems". The goal is that when low information voters have problems with the mail, it will be in the context of having heard accusations against both sides on the issue, so that they don't just blame Trump.

I will say that I think in general this type of stuff isn't working as well in 2020 as it did in 2016, though I'm sure Politico will have a credulous headline up on this soon.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

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They're not just removing the sorting machines, they're trashing them.
Ahead of an expected surge in mail-in voting, recent cuts to the beleaguered U.S. Postal Service have led to months-long delays and the removal of letter sorting machines in San Antonio, according to the leaders of two postal workers unions.

“A lot of mail has been left on the floor, not only at the plant on Perrin Beitel but the stations as well,” said Chris Rincon, president of San Antonio Alamo Area Local 195. “There have been many delays in the mail. There have been many machines that have been taken out of service here.”

At least four letter sorting machines were removed in recent weeks, leaving 28, Rincon said. Each machine can sort about 35,000 pieces of mail an hour.

“They’ve been thrown in the trash,” Rincon said. “They’re not coming back.”
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

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Skinypupy wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:21 am They're not just removing the sorting machines, they're trashing them.
I expected as much. These machines have got to be incredibly unique to postal service and would have limited to no use in most other situations without some kind of extensive overhaul... so they just get scrapped. My first thought was "buy them back" but then I immediately realized they had probably been turned into slag.

It's the kind of spite I'd expect out of a Postmaster General that wants to ruin the agency.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by malchior »

This is why I worry about this type of thing. Are there no controls for this type of abuse or malfeasance? Let's say DeJoy is doing this to destroy the postal service. Are there no repercussions other than his reputation?
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Smoove_B »

malchior wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:56 am This is why I worry about this type of thing. Are there no controls for this type of abuse or malfeasance? Let's say DeJoy is doing this to destroy the postal service. Are there no repercussions other than his reputation?
I can only assume it's just like public health. No one anticipated this so we're in uncharted waters.

Before this month had anyone seriously considered an assault on the USPS? Did anyone truly believe removing / locking postal boxes, changing administrative work flow to slow things down and then finally actively destroying postal sorting equipment was anything other than tinfoil hat conspiracy nonsense?

And let's not minimize this:
President Donald Trump has told aides he'd like to hold an in-person meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin before the November election, according to four people familiar with the discussions.

Administration officials have explored various times and locations for another Trump-Putin summit, including potentially next month in New York, these people said.

The goal of a summit would be for the two leaders to announce progress towards a new nuclear arms control agreement between the U.S. and Russia, the people familiar with the discussions said.
Riiiiigh. The only thing Trump does more than golf is meet or speak with Putin, apparently.
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