Election integrity and the transfer of power

[Jaymann]

It's almost like in this very specific situation, impeaching and then slow-rolling the Senate trial is a horrifically bad idea. The Capitol is surrounded by barbed-wire fences and there are 20K troops encamped. But yeah, we can't rush to have a trial for Trump right now - too much crazy stuff going on.

I'm losing hope. Rapidly.

So let me get this straight - Agolf invokes the Insurrection Act because he fomented an insurrection. Then he calls up the regular army and orders them to attack the National Guard stationed around the Capital to prevent Biden's inauguration. When I asked about military leaders refusing to follow illegal orders I got a rolly eye.

[Smoove_B]

I'm not actually worried about the U.S. military obeying Trump. I'm concerned that he and his remaining allies apparently feed off chaos and he's still in the Oval Office with 5 days to go.

[Skinypupy]

It gets worse and worse the more we see.

[Smoove_B]

I'm grateful they filmed that and I hope every second is used to find the people there. But good lord, was that terrifying to watch.

[Daehawk]

Not a lick of sense among the lot of them. People like that used to be in mental hospitals and watched. Not sold guns and plane tickets.

[Jaymann]

Ding, dong, the Karen is gone. Emily Murphy resigns.


She's gone: The woman heading @USGSA
who single-handedly blocked all communication between the #Trump and #Biden teams, ruining transition in many areas -- most egregiously, for the #COVID19 response.

[Skinypupy]

Some major CYA going on now.

Talked to Mike Lindell this evening. He said lawyer gave him notes to share with POTUS but repeatedly wouldn’t say what lawyer. He said he met with Trump for 5-10 minutes and then was referred to counsel’s office. Said the lawyers were “disinterested, very disinterested.”

Lindell said he gave POTUS this document & also provided to me. Said, falsely, it was clear Biden lost and Trump won — by 11 million votes. Said the truth would one day come out. After meeting with WH lawyers, who he said weren’t interested, he wasn’t let back in to see POTUS.

[Kraken]

I'm grateful they filmed that and I hope every second is used to find the people there. But good lord, was that terrifying to watch.

+1. 2021 is not shaping up well. Civil War II is coming into focus. It's looking like an asymmetrical, guerilla situation, but we don't really know the extent to which law enforcement has been infiltrated. Y'all Qaeda is as fired-up as any other insurgency on the planet.

[Daehawk]

A small local group is pressuring Fleischmann to provide proof or to shut up and apologize for elector vote.

Organizers to Rep. Fleischmann: 'Show proof of election fraud or renounce objection to electoral certification'

When Channel 3 previously spoke with him, he said, he is just speaking on behalf of his constituents. “The overwhelming majority of my constituents before the vote and after the vote have affirmed my vote,” he said.

"That is no reason he should steal votes in another state,” responded Smith.

[Jaymann]

Countdown to Biden inauguration as President:

4 days

Agolf, desperate to upstage Biden, is demanding a red carpet military honor guard send off on 1/20. Hopefully his anticipation of playing with his toy soldiers will distract him from starting WWIII in the next few days. Meanwhile he indulges his sadistic urges by executing a record number of prisoners, including a mentally ill white woman (go suburbs!).

[Jaymann]

In case anyone is wondering if they've given up, this was taken today at the WH.

Thankfully, morons like the MyPillow guy are the ones attempting the takeover. Next time we won't be so lucky.

“Martial law if necessary” — MyPillow guy Mike Lindell’s notes for his White House meeting with Trump suggest these guys are still plotting to overthrow the election

NotMyPillow gets shut down by Agolf's lawyers after he insults them:

Maggie Haberman
@maggieNYT

Officials said Lindell spoke sharply to one of Cipollone's assistants after he was brought upstairs; Cipollone told him he wouldn't speak to him until Lindell apologized to her.

Active campaign now to boycott his products and pressure stores to remove them.

[Daehawk]

Can only hope. Im glad I never bought one of his items.

[Carpet_pissr]

Yeah, with a heavy heart, I predict civil war. It may not be within the next 6 months or even a year, but the speed with which the two Americas are diverging has only been accelerating.

Combined with:
1. Pandemic and all its health/social and unfortunately political repercussions
2. Economic inequality increasing rapidly in recent years and continuing
3. The still to come economic fallout from rising unemployment, lost businesses, etc from Covid. Not to mention at some point we’ll need to pay for these trillion dollar stimuli.

I really hate to be this cynical, but I don’t see a path or a leader or a catalyst* that actually brings us together as a country.

*At this point, if 9/11 happened tomorrow for the first time, I wouldn’t doubt our right to far-right friends, family, neighbors, cops and congresspeople and news media would blame the left/Democrats.

We. Are. Broken.

[Jaymann]

Yeah, with a heavy heart, I predict civil war. It may not be within the next 6 months or even a year, but the speed with which the two Americas are diverging has only been accelerating.

Combined with:
1. Pandemic and all its health/social and unfortunately political repercussions
2. Economic inequality increasing rapidly in recent years and continuing
3. The still to come economic fallout from rising unemployment, lost businesses, etc from Covid. Not to mention at some point we’ll need to pay for these trillion dollar stimuli.

I really hate to be this cynical, but I don’t see a path or a leader or a catalyst* that actually brings us together as a country.

*At this point, if 9/11 happened tomorrow for the first time, I wouldn’t doubt our right to far-right friends, family, neighbors, cops and congresspeople and news media would blame the left/Democrats.

We. Are. Broken.

Agree we are broken. But again I ask who would be the two sides in a civil war? Trump rabid dogs vs the US Government? Doesn't seem a fair fight. More a candidate for guerrilla war.

[malchior]

There is no model for what is ahead. No advanced economy has had to deal with parts of a radicalized majority race turning on the country. State vs. State doesn't work. City vs. Rural is something of a model but the problem is even then everyone is mixed together. Will it look like a backyard war? Maybe. Will it be a rural insurgency? Maybe. Will it be uniformed forces fighting each other? Almost certainly a not.

[Carpet_pissr]

There is no model for what is ahead. No advanced economy has had to deal with parts of a radicalized majority race turning on the country. State vs. State doesn't work. City vs. Rural is something of a model but the problem is even then everyone is mixed together. Will it look like a backyard war? Maybe. Will it be a rural insurgency? Maybe. Will it be uniformed forces fighting each other? Almost certainly a not.

Thank you (seriously) for not using the “u” word, and triggering me.

Right, so perhaps not civil war in technical (legal? Political?) terms, with uniforms and battle flags, but probably years of some kind of armed conflict, bombs, vehicular homicide, riots, etc.

We have some of all those now, but I think we will see a big upswing. Maybe like the Basque uprising. But without the goal of independence.

So sayeth the prophet.

[Smoove_B]

I'm pretty confident you can expect raids all over the U.S. to disrupt domestic terror cells. I can't even begin to imagine the scale and scope, but these people need to be rooted out and dealt with as I'm confident they're going to continue to foment violence in the near future. We toss "zero tolerance" around and it's been effectively watered down for the last 20 years, but this is one area that I think it absolutely applies. There's definitely a core group of people (clearly more than 100) that have the ability to communicate, organize, plan and actually mobilize. They're not going to slink back so we either deal with them swiftly or they're going to continue to radicalize people into their cause.

Feels strange to write that, but it's pretty clear that's what we're up against. How that interfaces with whatever issues exist in LEO around the nation (state, local, federal) as well as the military and how much they've been compromised I have no idea either.

Meanwhile:

80% of Trump voters over 50 years old incorrectly believe Trump “definitely” won the election; 67% of Trump voters who are college grads hold that view; and 82% of Trump voters without college degrees falsely think he won, per Pew survey

[Skinypupy]

Anyone have a link to that Pew survey?

Not that those results would surprise me in the least, but I’d like actually see the data.

[Smoove_B]

I think this is it.

[malchior]

I'm pretty confident you can expect raids all over the U.S. to disrupt domestic terror cells. I can't even begin to imagine the scale and scope, but these people need to be rooted out and dealt with as I'm confident they're going to continue to foment violence in the near future.

One immediate problem is we don't have a domestic terrorism statute. Terror raids are only going to appear if someone reports them. We saw how that worked out in Nashville for instance. And the FBI has had some success infiltrating these groups but not at this scale. We need to potentially scale up legally and personnel-wise to succeed here and we still have a sedition caucus that wants to frustrate any reform efforts.

We toss "zero tolerance" around and it's been effectively watered down for the last 20 years, but this is one area that I think it absolutely applies. There's definitely a core group of people (clearly more than 100) that have the ability to communicate, organize, plan and actually mobilize. They're not going to slink back so we either deal with them swiftly or they're going to continue to radicalize people into their cause.

Here's something to think about. 8% of the population are veterans right now. Across all branches. Are they all going to join this insurgency? Naturally no but the important thing is that there is a really big pool that not only trained by the best military force in the world but also fought *against* an insurgency for 2 decades. They know all the tricks that were used against them. Now we can hope most of those people won't sign up but they are out there to be tapped if we get past a tipping point. Additionally, we have quite a large pool of paramilitary power (police / militias) out there with ex-military equipment. Maybe 2 decades of non-stop grinding war wasn't a good idea?

Feels strange to write that, but it's pretty clear that's what we're up against. How that interfaces with whatever issues exist in LEO around the nation (state, local, federal) as well as the military and how much they've been compromised I have no idea either.

This touches on my last scary paragraph but the police also still have serious underlying issues. All of which might explode again if we find ourselves watching white police officers getting away with mayhem and rioting against marches. It is recruitment material *and* dry tinder.

[Jaymann]

Can only hope. Im glad I never bought one of his items.

Word is he is angling for a blanket pardon.

[malchior]

I think this is it.

Here is a WTF normalization problem:

More Americans expect ethics and honesty in the federal government will rise, rather than fall, with Biden as president
Chart shows more Americans expect government ethics to rise than fall under Biden
More Americans expect the overall level of ethics and honesty in the federal government to rise with Biden as president (46%) than expect it to fall (30%). About a quarter (24%) expect little change.

About three-quarters of Democrats and Democratic leaners (76%) say that the level of ethics and honesty will rise, while 19% say it will stay the same and 5% say it will fall.

A majority of Americans in the survey think that the level of ethics and honesty will get worse or stay the same. I'm flabbergasted. Trump's administration is hands down the most corrupt in history. The President lied mendaciously in the face of video and audio evidence. His cabinet and spokespeople did the same and people expect that of Biden's administration (or worse!)? That is a red alarm that we have large swaths of people who aren't even in reality or have critical thinking ability. Even amongst Democrats 19% think that. Maybe I'm reading this wrong but I find that astounding.

[Kraken]

There is no model for what is ahead. No advanced economy has had to deal with parts of a radicalized majority race turning on the country. State vs. State doesn't work. City vs. Rural is something of a model but the problem is even then everyone is mixed together. Will it look like a backyard war? Maybe. Will it be a rural insurgency? Maybe. Will it be uniformed forces fighting each other? Almost certainly a not.

Thank you (seriously) for not using the “u” word, and triggering me.

Right, so perhaps not civil war in technical (legal? Political?) terms, with uniforms and battle flags, but probably years of some kind of armed conflict, bombs, vehicular homicide, riots, etc.

We have some of all those now, but I think we will see a big upswing. Maybe like the Basque uprising. But without the goal of independence.

So sayeth the prophet.

Agree, mostly. We're in for a protracted insurgency with bombings, kidnap attempts, assassination attempts, even organized assault operations. Possibly more riots, although if we can get through this coming week, I think that becomes less likely.

Two things we have to figure out: to what degree can we rely on law enforcement to enforce the law vs. covertly side with the guerrillas? And, how can we identify the enemy in our midst? MAGA hats, Confederate flags, trump regalia, those are all easy tells. But what about the two houses on my block that fly blue-stripe flags? I generally agree with the original meaning behind that symbol, but it's been hijacked and borders on hate speech now. Are my neighbors just law-and-order conservatives, or are they full-on MAGAts?

[Pyperkub]

There is no model for what is ahead. No advanced economy has had to deal with parts of a radicalized majority race turning on the country. State vs. State doesn't work. City vs. Rural is something of a model but the problem is even then everyone is mixed together. Will it look like a backyard war? Maybe. Will it be a rural insurgency? Maybe. Will it be uniformed forces fighting each other? Almost certainly a not.

Japan, Germany, Spain, even the US, etc. in the 1930's.

However, one other factor is that, just as in the 1930's, it's not just the US.

We are also seeing this in the UK and Germany, in greater and lesser degrees respectively. India also seems to be cracking.

The rise of right wing authoritarian nationalism is a global phenomenon right now. It is unlikely that war will be internal civil wars only.

I also think that the rise of nuclear tech in the middle east, fueled by Iran and the sale to the Saudis is going to be devastating as religious tensions get coupled with increasing climate issues.

[Archinerd]

Hopefully we can avoid becoming a fascist police state, while we fight to prevent becoming a fascist police state.

[El Guapo]

There is no model for what is ahead. No advanced economy has had to deal with parts of a radicalized majority race turning on the country. State vs. State doesn't work. City vs. Rural is something of a model but the problem is even then everyone is mixed together. Will it look like a backyard war? Maybe. Will it be a rural insurgency? Maybe. Will it be uniformed forces fighting each other? Almost certainly a not.

Thank you (seriously) for not using the “u” word, and triggering me.

Right, so perhaps not civil war in technical (legal? Political?) terms, with uniforms and battle flags, but probably years of some kind of armed conflict, bombs, vehicular homicide, riots, etc.

We have some of all those now, but I think we will see a big upswing. Maybe like the Basque uprising. But without the goal of independence.

So sayeth the prophet.

Agree, mostly. We're in for a protracted insurgency with bombings, kidnap attempts, assassination attempts, even organized assault operations. Possibly more riots, although if we can get through this coming week, I think that becomes less likely.

Two things we have to figure out: to what degree can we rely on law enforcement to enforce the law vs. covertly side with the guerrillas? And, how can we identify the enemy in our midst? MAGA hats, Confederate flags, trump regalia, those are all easy tells. But what about the two houses on my block that fly blue-stripe flags? I generally agree with the original meaning behind that symbol, but it's been hijacked and borders on hate speech now. Are my neighbors just law-and-order conservatives, or are they full-on MAGAts?

I really think you're overestimating MAGA world as an insurgency threat. The FBI has been going around arresting people who broke into the capital and people are already pleading for pardons and whatnot. It really wouldn't take a ton of enforcement to cow 99% of them.

It's like worrying about the Weather Underground. Can they cause problems? Sure. Is it the basis for some kind of sustained insurgency? Not remotely.

[Holman]

I really think you're overestimating MAGA world as an insurgency threat. The FBI has been going around arresting people who broke into the capital and people are already pleading for pardons and whatnot. It really wouldn't take a ton of enforcement to cow 99% of them.

It's like worrying about the Weather Underground. Can they cause problems? Sure. Is it the basis for some kind of sustained insurgency? Not remotely.

I agree that the FBI is very good at this. If I were a MAGA bomber today I would be paranoid as hell.

But the Weather Underground were always outliers. They didn't have whole news networks devoted to their worldview or a gun industry aggressively endorsing their message. At no point did a major political party court and encourage them to come to D.C. to change history. Influential American religious groups never endorsed Weather ideas as God's will.

[malchior]

I really think you're overestimating MAGA world as an insurgency threat. The FBI has been going around arresting people who broke into the capital and people are already pleading for pardons and whatnot. It really wouldn't take a ton of enforcement to cow 99% of them.

It's like worrying about the Weather Underground. Can they cause problems? Sure. Is it the basis for some kind of sustained insurgency? Not remotely.

I agree that the FBI is very good at this. If I were a MAGA bomber today I would be paranoid as hell.

But the Weather Underground were always outliers. They didn't have whole news networks devoted to their worldview or a gun industry aggressively endorsing their message. At no point did a major political party court and encourage them to come to D.C. to change history. Influential American religious groups never endorsed Weather ideas as God's will.

The Weather Underground also wasn't embedded inside police forces, the military, or throughout the government. This is a bit of a math problem. There are a lot of them buying into massive scale ever evolving conspiracy theories. And it is spreading like wild fire.

[malchior]

We've also got agitators fomenting further insurrection actively right now. Lindell went in for his cracked meeting with Trump to urge him to take military action and was chased out by some of Trump's remaining handlers. He then went on to do this:

In Lindell’s interview—which has garnered hundreds of thousands of views on Facebook in just a few hours—he recounts the details of his meeting with the president and rattles off a series of unintelligible conspiracies in a Minnesota lilt.

“You know I’ve been looking down every hole for election fraud since November 4th and about eight or nine days ago this proof came out. One-hundred percent footprints from the machines of the machine fraud,” Lindell said. “I wanted to get it to the president. This is it. This shows that Joe Biden lost: 79 million for Donald Trump and 68 million for Joe Biden.”

When asked about the president’s reaction to this Lindell replied, “I said I talked to the guy. This is real. I said it’s got the IP address of the computer that it came out of. It also has the latitude and longitude like over in China this went over there came back and it shows the number of votes flipped. And he was very intrigued looking at it. . . . He goes, yeah like we all knew that right.”

Lindell said that the notes which included the words “insurrection act” and “martial law” were just part of a menu of legal options that was presented to the president. He said that the menu item that most intrigued Trump was the suggestion that he could order Facebook and Twitter and Google to reinstate all of the banned accounts.

After sharing this “proof” of fraud and the legal options Lindell said that the president asked the nation’s national security advisor Robert O’Brien to take him upstairs and share this information with the lawyers.

Lindell said he left the White House deeply deflated by the lawyers’ nonplussed reaction to his blockbuster “evidence” and O’Brien’s objection to the notion that Trump has the power to unban all social media accounts unilaterally. He was further distressed by the “piranhas”in the press corps who were criticizing the meeting.

...

But in the interview Lindell went further to specifically call for military intervention to keep Trump in power.

When the Right Side Broadcasting News interviewer suggested that “people are hoping that this military presence is a response” to the election fraud, Lindell replied, “that’s where my hope lies.”

[malchior]

Did Trump just toss Rudy out of the lifeboat?

HAHAHAHA

[Tao]

So both the DOJ and Department of Homeland Security, which have cadres of professional law enforcement, cybersecurity and forensic experts found no evidence of fraud but the ex-crack addict turned pillow salesman and all around huckster cracked the case from his home computer. That makes total sense.

[Carpet_pissr]

It's like worrying about the Weather Underground. Can they cause problems? Sure. Is it the basis for some kind of sustained insurgency? Not remotely.

I love you , man, but I think that’s an absurd, profoundly unbalanced analogy, and that you are 100% incorrect, just based on what we already know of this faction of conspiracy loons.

I truly fear how much we DON’T know how deep or widespread this is.

Having said all that, I hope to hell you’re right. I will very gladly, joyously come back to this post a year or two from now and eat crow if you turn out to be right.

[Jaymann]

Countdown to Biden inauguration as President:

3 days

The MyPillow crack whore creeps into the Oval Office and tells Agolf he can bust the case wide open with a kriminal sopina. He gets confused when Agolf tells him to talk to Dershowitz, then enraged when he discovers Dershowitz is not one of Agolf's lawyers. He is then escorted out.

[Holman]

So both the DOJ and Department of Homeland Security, which have cadres of professional law enforcement, cybersecurity and forensic experts found no evidence of fraud but the ex-crack addict turned pillow salesman and all around huckster cracked the case from his home computer. That makes total sense.

But he's got the IP address, Tao! THE IP ADDRESS!!

[malchior]

Things I didn't know - apparently Pelosi is individually responsible for Capitol security. Luckily Graham and his Republican buddies are on the case.

[Little Raven]

I'm with El Guapo. MAGA America is much smaller than social media would have you believe, and they are NOT prepared for what they have just let loose.

There will probably be issues. But this is not the coming of the American Troubles.

[Kraken]

I'm with El Guapo. MAGA America is much smaller than social media would have you believe, and they are NOT prepared for what they have just let loose.

There will probably be issues. But this is not the coming of the American Troubles.

They have many friends in high places -- like about 147 sympathetic congresspersons, for starters, plus who knows how many in state houses, law enforcement, and the military. I'll worry less about the MAGAts if we can cut the head off the snake.

[Carpet_pissr]

I'm with El Guapo. MAGA America is much smaller than social media would have you believe, and they are NOT prepared for what they have just let loose.

There will probably be issues. But this is not the coming of the American Troubles.

They have many friends in high places -- like about 147 sympathetic congresspersons, for starters, plus who knows how many in state houses, law enforcement, and the military. I'll worry less about the MAGAts if we can cut the head off the snake.

This

[El Guapo]

I'm with El Guapo. MAGA America is much smaller than social media would have you believe, and they are NOT prepared for what they have just let loose.

There will probably be issues. But this is not the coming of the American Troubles.

They have many friends in high places -- like about 147 sympathetic congresspersons, for starters, plus who knows how many in state houses, law enforcement, and the military. I'll worry less about the MAGAts if we can cut the head off the snake.

This

I'm way, way, way more worried about MAGA world taking control of the country via elections aided by our anti-democratic system than I am about their capacity to effect change via violence.

I'm not saying that right wing terrorism isn't a danger. I'm just saying that the main danger that poses is the risk of a few people getting killed every once in a while.

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

[Fretmute]

Lindell said he left the White House deeply deflated by the lawyers’ nonplussed reaction to his blockbuster “evidence” and O’Brien’s objection to the notion that Trump has the power to unban all social media accounts unilaterally.

I approve of governmental regulation of speech to ensure that only people that can properly define "nonplussed" are allowed to use it in a sentence.