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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:45 pm
by Kraken
IDK, to me it feels like the car has finally run out of clowns.

Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:35 pm
by Ralph-Wiggum
As has been mentioned, while it seems increasingly unlikely that Trump will be able to steal the election, the GOP is standing beside these shenanigans because they will have the effect of crippling Biden’s presidency. They’ve pretty much guaranteed that half the nation will never believe that Biden was legitimately elected and thus the GOP will be emboldened to block Biden’s policies at pretty much every opportunity. The side effect, of course, is that they’re also eroding the faith in our democracy.

And it’s scary to think what would be happening if Biden had only one the presidency because of one of these closer states like Georgia or Wisconsin. If that were the case, I have no doubt that Trump would’ve been successful in trying to steal the election. The main thing protecting Biden is that his victory was overwhelming enough and across enough states to make Trump’s actions incredibly unlikely to succeed.

Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:17 am
by stessier
GA's governor is calling for the Sec of State to do a signature audit. This would be meaningless as the ballots have been separated from the envelopes and signatures they came with. The governor heard until 5pm today took certify the electoral voter slate. This is going to be interesting.

Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:20 am
by El Guapo
stessier wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:17 am The governor heard until 5pm today took certify the electoral voter slate.
Was this put through Google Translate a couple times? :)

Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:24 am
by El Guapo
Article on Kemp's request for a signature audit. Key part for me:
The Georgia Secretary of State's office has said repeatedly that at this point in the process it is not possible to match signatures — which already took place as a part of a two-step signature verification process — because ballots are separated from envelopes to ensure the secrecy of voters' selections.

Kemp's press conference will come after a strange series of events Friday afternoon, starting with Raffensperger issuing a statement saying the results had been certified, then making a corrected statement within a half-hour that they would be certified later Friday. He certified the results around 4 p.m., an hour before Kemp was set to hold his press conference.

Meanwhile, Mr. Trump on Friday in tweet accused Kemp and Raffensperger of refusing to "let us look at signatures which would expose hundreds of thousands of illegal ballots" which he alleged would give the "Republican Party and me, David Perdue, and perhaps Kelly Loeffler, a BIG VICTORY."
A couple thoughts:

(1) Since Kemp already certified the results, and since Raffensperger has already repeatedly said that checking the signatures is impossible, I don't think this will matter, and is probably Kemp trying to toss a bone to Trump / the Trump base.

(2) It does, however, further confirm that Kemp is a shitstain;

(3) I love how Trump says that the audit recount would give him and Perdue big victories, and "perhaps" to Loeffler as well. Kind of hard to read this as reflecting anything other than Trump's casual misogyny.

Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:30 am
by Ralph-Wiggum
Sounds like Kemp is just making noise to try to stay in Trump’s good graces.

As to point #3, though, I think it’s most likely because Loeffler only got something like 30% of the vote. There’s zero chance any sort of recount would put her above the 50% margin needed to win without a runoff.

Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:41 am
by El Guapo
Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:30 am Sounds like Kemp is just making noise to try to stay in Trump’s good graces.

As to point #3, though, I think it’s most likely because Loeffler only got something like 30% of the vote. There’s zero chance any sort of recount would put her above the 50% margin needed to win without a runoff.
Ohhh, he's saying win without a run-off. Ok, that makes more sense.

Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:51 am
by Jaymann
This sets the stage for Agolf to demand the legislature step in because they can't do a signature audit. On a result that has been certified. Apparently Agolf thinks certified is like when a check engine light comes on.

Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:11 pm
by stessier
El Guapo wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:20 am
stessier wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:17 am The governor heard until 5pm today took certify the electoral voter slate.
Was this put through Google Translate a couple times? :)
Stupid autocorrect. Samsung's is so much worse than Google. The governor has until 5pm today to certify the electoral voter slate.

Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:14 pm
by stessier
El Guapo wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:24 am Article on Kemp's request for a signature audit. Key part for me:
The Georgia Secretary of State's office has said repeatedly that at this point in the process it is not possible to match signatures — which already took place as a part of a two-step signature verification process — because ballots are separated from envelopes to ensure the secrecy of voters' selections.

Kemp's press conference will come after a strange series of events Friday afternoon, starting with Raffensperger issuing a statement saying the results had been certified, then making a corrected statement within a half-hour that they would be certified later Friday. He certified the results around 4 p.m., an hour before Kemp was set to hold his press conference.

Meanwhile, Mr. Trump on Friday in tweet accused Kemp and Raffensperger of refusing to "let us look at signatures which would expose hundreds of thousands of illegal ballots" which he alleged would give the "Republican Party and me, David Perdue, and perhaps Kelly Loeffler, a BIG VICTORY."
A couple thoughts:

(1) Since Kemp already certified the results, and since Raffensperger has already repeatedly said that checking the signatures is impossible, I don't think this will matter, and is probably Kemp trying to toss a bone to Trump / the Trump base.

(2) It does, however, further confirm that Kemp is a shitstain;

(3) I love how Trump says that the audit recount would give him and Perdue big victories, and "perhaps" to Loeffler as well. Kind of hard to read this as reflecting anything other than Trump's casual misogyny.
Note - I have not seen where Kemp has certified anything. He said Raffensperger's certification opens up new legal avenues for Trump to pursue.

Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:18 pm
by RunningMn9
Kemp signed the certification last night (according to every news organization anyway).

Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:22 pm
by stessier
RunningMn9 wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:18 pm Kemp signed the certification last night (according to every news organization anyway).
You are correct. I swear the article I read said he was waiting. My bad.

Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:15 pm
by Jaymann
Now the Repugnicans are trying to delay certification in Michigan for 2 weeks for an audit of Wayne County. Should go nowhere unless some committee members go rogue. Then the Governor can replace them. Every. Fucking. Day.

Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:30 pm
by El Guapo
Jaymann wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:15 pm Now the Repugnicans are trying to delay certification in Michigan for 2 weeks for an audit of Wayne County. Should go nowhere unless some committee members go rogue. Then the Governor can replace them. Every. Fucking. Day.
I assume this is at the statewide certification committee?

Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:42 pm
by Jaymann
El Guapo wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:30 pm
Jaymann wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:15 pm Now the Repugnicans are trying to delay certification in Michigan for 2 weeks for an audit of Wayne County. Should go nowhere unless some committee members go rogue. Then the Governor can replace them. Every. Fucking. Day.
I assume this is at the statewide certification committee?
Yes. The county boat has sailed.

Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:26 pm
by Jaymann
I figured out why judges hate Trump so much. He makes them work on weekends while he plays golf.

Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:32 pm
by Skinypupy
From the MI SOS regarding the last bit of poo the GOP flung at the wall.


Not sure who needs to hear this but under state law (MCL 168.31a) audits can only be conducted after the State Canvassers certify the election. This is b/c election officials do not have legal access to the documents needed to complete audits until the certification.

Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:31 pm
by Remus West
Paingod wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:45 pm
Remus West wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:13 pmAt what point do the people start to take to the streets again in protest of this abuse?
The second it stops being comically pathetic and actually sticks at any point in the process. When a single legitimate vote is tossed, I think it's safe to whip out the anti-fascist banners and place a shitstorm in front of the White House.

So far, to my knowledge, absolutely nothing they've tried has actually removed one legal vote.
My concern isn't isolated to this election though. The damage being done to our national elections can not be understated in my eyes. Allowing the continued broadcast of patently false information without any consequence has to be addressed. Lying needs to have consequences and lying on this scale needs to face even more strict consequences. This is not misinterpretations going on. This is not examining of actual evidence and questionable situations. This is out right making shit up and spreading across the toast of America before feeding it to them. And they are gobbling it down. There needs to be some sort of cost for acting in this way beyond being removed from office because the removal is simply a result of losing the election. He, and everyone promoting his lies, need to be held accountable for the damage being done.

Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:09 pm
by Skinypupy
A update on how the recount is going in WI.



Basically, Republican observers are challenging every. single. ballot. They’re grinding the process to a near halt, just to be petty dicks. They’ve gotten a total of 3 ballots rejected...Trump lost by over 25,000 votes.

Fuck these people.

Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:31 pm
by El Guapo
I don't think it's just to be petty dicks. One goal of a lot of this stuff is to cause key Biden states like WI to miss the certification deadline if possible, so as to give the legislature a cause to step in an appoint pro-Trump delegates.

Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:47 pm
by Skinypupy
My understanding is that if that happened, the original count would stand. I could very well be mistaken about that.

Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:16 pm
by Holman
Half the point of all of this is to train Republicans that the rules don't matter. The end justifies the means, and if we stop them this time they'll try again next time. Pretty soon it'll just be how it's done.

They're giving up on the ideal of fair elections. I have to admit I'm a little surprised they went there so easily.

Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:26 pm
by Jaymann
Graham called it...if we have fair elections no Republican will ever be elected.

Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:50 pm
by Octavious
Geez the PA judge was just savage in his ruling. It's almost like they are raising BS cases to just distract and disrupt. That would be crazy though.

Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:30 pm
by WYBaugh
Remus West wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:31 pm
Paingod wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:45 pm
Remus West wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:13 pmAt what point do the people start to take to the streets again in protest of this abuse?
The second it stops being comically pathetic and actually sticks at any point in the process. When a single legitimate vote is tossed, I think it's safe to whip out the anti-fascist banners and place a shitstorm in front of the White House.

So far, to my knowledge, absolutely nothing they've tried has actually removed one legal vote.
My concern isn't isolated to this election though. The damage being done to our national elections can not be understated in my eyes. Allowing the continued broadcast of patently false information without any consequence has to be addressed. Lying needs to have consequences and lying on this scale needs to face even more strict consequences. This is not misinterpretations going on. This is not examining of actual evidence and questionable situations. This is out right making shit up and spreading across the toast of America before feeding it to them. And they are gobbling it down. There needs to be some sort of cost for acting in this way beyond being removed from office because the removal is simply a result of losing the election. He, and everyone promoting his lies, need to be held accountable for the damage being done.
Preach it!

Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:31 pm
by WYBaugh
Octavious wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:50 pm Geez the PA judge was just savage in his ruling. It's almost like they are raising BS cases to just distract and disrupt. That would be crazy though.
"One might expect that when seeking such a startling outcome, a plaintiff would come formidably armed with compelling legal arguments and factual proof of rampant corruption, such that this Court would have no option but to regrettably grant the proposed injunctive relief despite the impact it would have on such a large group of citizens. That has not happened," Brann added. "Instead, this Court has been presented with strained legal arguments without merit and speculative accusations, unpled in the operative complaint and unsupported by evidence."

"In the United States of America, this cannot justify the disenfranchisement of a single voter, let alone all the voters of its sixth most populated state. Our people, laws, and institutions demand more," the judge wrote." At bottom, Plaintiffs have failed to meet their burden to state a claim upon which relief may be granted."

Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:37 pm
by El Guapo


Good news.

Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:59 pm
by Smoove_B
El Guapo wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:37 pm Good news.
I guess you don't follow Trump on Twitter, eh?

Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:06 pm
by Zaxxon
Indeed, it was great news... For Trump!


Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:29 pm
by Skinypupy
“I frequently punt on first down so I can get the ball back faster.”

Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:39 pm
by Kraken
Hypothetically, if trump did manage to bring his SCOTUS into play, would Amy Covid Bryant recuse?

Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:55 pm
by Jaymann
I dunno, but Kavanaugh would vote for him just for the free beer.

Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:56 am
by Little Raven
Kraken wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:39 pm Hypothetically, if trump did manage to bring his SCOTUS into play, would Amy Covid Bryant recuse?
Probably not. There's certainly no grounds for her to.

Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:05 am
by Kraken
Little Raven wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:56 am
Kraken wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:39 pm Hypothetically, if trump did manage to bring his SCOTUS into play, would Amy Covid Bryant recuse?
Probably not. There's certainly no grounds for her to.
"Being appointed as a campaign chit" hasn't come up before?

Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:11 am
by Little Raven
Kraken wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:05 am"Being appointed as a campaign chit" hasn't come up before?
This is why we do lifetime appointments. The moment she was sworn in, any hypothetical hold that Trump had over her vanished.

Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:24 am
by malchior
Kraken wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:05 am
Little Raven wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:56 am
Kraken wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:39 pm Hypothetically, if trump did manage to bring his SCOTUS into play, would Amy Covid Bryant recuse?
Probably not. There's certainly no grounds for her to.
"Being appointed as a campaign chit" hasn't come up before?
Seriously. We've seen over and over for the last 4 years where things that seemed impossible happened every day. Before that we had significant fraying for years before. The amazing thing to me is people want to still hang on with both hands to fantasies about how the 'center is holding'.

Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:29 am
by JCC
It's amazing how much this is damaging our country. It is adding gasoline to a fire that has smouldered for years. When two large chunks of a country's population can't even agree on what truth is - that is the early stages of a crumbling society. The deafening silence of the majority of the (national office holding) GOP is so damaging. There are only a tiny smattering of grown up Republicans at the national level. ****70%**** of Republicans now believe the election was rigged. That is so frightening.

Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:30 am
by Holman
I have trouble believing Roberts would allow it to come to a vote.

He's a conservative, but he cares way more about his legacy than about the fortunes of Donald Trump. Since the makeup of the court already ensures that conservatives control the field for the next generation, Roberts' best course for protecting his legacy (and maybe even making himself a hero for the history books) is pretty clear.

Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:37 am
by LawBeefaroni
Holman wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:30 am I have trouble believing Roberts would allow it to come to a vote.

He's a conservative, but he cares way more about his legacy than about the fortunes of Donald Trump. Since the makeup of the court already ensures that conservatives control the field for the next generation, Roberts' best course for protecting his legacy (and maybe even making himself a hero for the history books) is pretty clear.
Depends who you think will be writing the history books.

We all assume that things will return to normal and that Trump will be the outlier. And presumably Roberts feels that way. But what if things don't or what if he doesn't?


A lot of people look at where we are as a Fort Sumter moment, not merely an historically difficult presidential transition.

Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:44 am
by Blackhawk
Then what we do doesn't matter. So we either give up and accept it, or we fight and hope it changes.