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Election integrity and the transfer of power

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Holman
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Holman »



Sidney Powell was also invited to come on Tucker Carlson and present evidence of election fraud. He said he would have been willing to give her the whole hour, but that the show's request for evidence made her angrier and angrier until she cut off contact. Now Tucker is being blasted by MAGA as a traitor to Trump. QAnon has already declared that he is actually part of the Satanic pedophile cult and has been all along.

Pressure on Purdue and Loefller to go full-conspiracy on this on going to be intense.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by The Meal »

I tend to believe Edward Norton's simple take on Trump's master plan: he's trying to drum up a bargaining chit to no longer challenge the Biden administration in return for a full exoneration from any future prosecution.

Of course my paraphrase is less entertaining than E-No's (yeah, I just made that up) actual words:
I do not think Trump is trying to 'make his base happy' or 'laying the groundwork for his own network' or that 'chaos is what he loves.'" He then added, "The core of it is that he knows he’s in deep, multi-dimensional legal jeopardy and this defines his every action. We’re seeing 1) a tactical delay of the transition to buy time for coverup & evidence suppression 2) above all, a desperate endgame which is to create enough chaos and anxiety about peaceful transfer of power, and fear of irreparable damage to the system, that he can cut a Nixon-style deal in exchange for finally conceding. But he doesn’t have the cards.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Holman »

I read that whole thread the other day without realizing it was Edward Norton the actor.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Blackhawk wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:44 am Then what we do doesn't matter. So we either give up and accept it, or we fight and hope it changes.
It does matter. In fact, it makes fighting and not giving up imperative.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Blackhawk »

That was what I was saying (apparently badly.) We either assume we lost and give up, or we fight for what we believe in.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by YellowKing »

What's funny is that as insane as these conspiracy theories sound, I almost find them easier to believe than the fact that 74 million people voted to re-elect Trump.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Smoove_B »

YellowKing wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:10 pmthe fact that 74 million people voted to re-elect Trump.
In time, I think we're going to realize this was a much bigger problem than we initially realized. I can propose any number of solutions and offer up ideas on how we change operations, but I cannot come up with any way to address the 74 million of people that enthusiastically wanted to continue down the path we were on.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Zaxxon »

Smoove_B wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:33 pm
YellowKing wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:10 pmthe fact that 74 million people voted to re-elect Trump.
In time, I think we're going to realize this was a much bigger problem than we initially realized. I can propose any number of solutions and offer up ideas on how we change operations, but I cannot come up with any way to address the 74 million of people that enthusiastically wanted to continue down the path we were on.
Reverse the gerrymandering and hope the MAGA folks take it as well as the D folks have taken it for the past 20 years?

Just kidding.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Skinypupy »

Rudy was howling about “There’s no way this many people voted for Biden! He campaigned from his basement therefore it’s impossible that people voted for him!”.

In a way, he’s kinda right. If Biden were running against any sane GOP candidate (oxymoron, I know), there’s likely no way he would have received that kind of support.

It’s a testament to just how badly people despise the Chaos Goblin that they came out in previously unimaginable droves, primarily to vote against him.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Kurth »

Jaymann wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:55 pm I dunno, but Kavanaugh would vote for him just for the free beer.
This made me laugh, but, honestly, based on what I’ve read of the complaint and Judge Bramm’s opinion tossing it, this isn’t getting to the Supreme Court, and if it did get cert, it would only be to unanimously affirm that there is no there there.

The Supreme Court is not going to cater to Rudy and Trump’s conspiracy theories. Not. Going. To. Happen.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by malchior »

Zaxxon wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:47 pm
Smoove_B wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:33 pm
YellowKing wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:10 pmthe fact that 74 million people voted to re-elect Trump.
In time, I think we're going to realize this was a much bigger problem than we initially realized. I can propose any number of solutions and offer up ideas on how we change operations, but I cannot come up with any way to address the 74 million of people that enthusiastically wanted to continue down the path we were on.
Reverse the gerrymandering and hope the MAGA folks take it as well as the D folks have taken it for the past 20 years?

Just kidding.
I witnessed several "very serious people" having a debate saying that the Democrats need to be stoic in the face of this situation. The only way forward was to make sure they win more Senate seats. Their very serious proposal was that Biden should work with Congress and avoid ruling by Executive Order. And people will come to trust them and elect more Senators. This is our elite class essentially staring at the abyss and seeing things slightly off kilter. I know this sounds like a broken record but you can't fix problems if you don't face them. Imploring Biden to fail his way into fixing this country is just insanity.
Kurth wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:31 pm
Jaymann wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:55 pm I dunno, but Kavanaugh would vote for him just for the free beer.
This made me laugh, but, honestly, based on what I’ve read of the complaint and Judge Bramm’s opinion tossing it, this isn’t getting to the Supreme Court, and if it did get cert, it would only be to unanimously affirm that there is no there there.

The Supreme Court is not going to cater to Rudy and Trump’s conspiracy theories. Not. Going. To. Happen.
I agree. There has to be a sliver of law to hang on. The problem with a Barrett or the new majority is the damage they have done is in the past and will do in the worsening chaotic period ahead of us. They aren't ripping up the system. They've just adopted a purist ideology that enabled the system to be undermined and won't lift a finger as it crumbles.
Last edited by malchior on Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Unagi »

Smoove_B wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:33 pm
YellowKing wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:10 pmthe fact that 74 million people voted to re-elect Trump.
In time, I think we're going to realize this was a much bigger problem than we initially realized. I can propose any number of solutions and offer up ideas on how we change operations, but I cannot come up with any way to address the 74 million of people that enthusiastically wanted to continue down the path we were on.
This is the biggest thing...
It's really hard to swallow what that actually means about America, and it's future.

My 13 yr old kid is upset that Biden "isn't left enough", and I keep reminding them that 74 million people wanted to actually keep going with Trump, which is to say nothing to the fact that some of the Biden voters apparently then went on to hamstring Biden with a GOP senate. This country isn't headed for easy times.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Jaymann »

Unagi wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:37 pm
Smoove_B wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:33 pm
YellowKing wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:10 pmthe fact that 74 million people voted to re-elect Trump.
In time, I think we're going to realize this was a much bigger problem than we initially realized. I can propose any number of solutions and offer up ideas on how we change operations, but I cannot come up with any way to address the 74 million of people that enthusiastically wanted to continue down the path we were on.
This is the biggest thing...
It's really hard to swallow what that actually means about America, and it's future.

My 13 yr old kid is upset that Biden "isn't left enough", and I keep reminding them that 74 million people wanted to actually keep going with Trump, which is to say nothing to the fact that some of the Biden voters apparently then went on to hamstring Biden with a GOP senate. This country isn't headed for easy times.
No doubt, But if 13 year olds have a grasp of what's happening there may yet be hope.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by malchior »

Unagi wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:37 pm
Smoove_B wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:33 pm
YellowKing wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:10 pmthe fact that 74 million people voted to re-elect Trump.
In time, I think we're going to realize this was a much bigger problem than we initially realized. I can propose any number of solutions and offer up ideas on how we change operations, but I cannot come up with any way to address the 74 million of people that enthusiastically wanted to continue down the path we were on.
This is the biggest thing...
It's really hard to swallow what that actually means about America, and it's future.

My 13 yr old kid is upset that Biden "isn't left enough", and I keep reminding them that 74 million people wanted to actually keep going with Trump, which is to say nothing to the fact that some of the Biden voters apparently then went on to hamstring Biden with a GOP senate. This country isn't headed for easy times.
I think we have to also divide that line into Biden isn't *populist* enough on the left. That is what is being defined as 'to the left' right now. We have a huge populism problem. The GOP seized on it first, pulled a lot of people into their orbit, and brainwashed them into accepting their solutions to that problem...while avoiding addressing the problems at all. Quite a feat.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Smoove_B »

Not even trying anymore


Michiganders Erupt After Their Maskless Lawmakers Sip Dom Perignon At Trump Hotel
After appearing to acquit themselves rationally following a controversial White House meeting with President Donald Trump on Friday, Michigan’s lawmakers were photographed celebrating maskless and downing pricey Dom Perignon champagne in the Trump International Hotel.

Voters erupted, and “Dom Perignon” was quickly trending on Twitter. The bottles go for $500 to $950 each at the hotel, and if it was a treat from Trump, they were likely on an expense account paid for by taxpayers — state, or federal.

Michigan, meanwhile, suffered through 10,000 new cases of COVID-19 Friday — and 53 deaths.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by gameoverman »

Zaxxon wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:47 pm
Smoove_B wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:33 pm
YellowKing wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:10 pmthe fact that 74 million people voted to re-elect Trump.
In time, I think we're going to realize this was a much bigger problem than we initially realized. I can propose any number of solutions and offer up ideas on how we change operations, but I cannot come up with any way to address the 74 million of people that enthusiastically wanted to continue down the path we were on.
Reverse the gerrymandering and hope the MAGA folks take it as well as the D folks have taken it for the past 20 years?

Just kidding.
I believe the work has to start at the local level, then work starts on the state level. Then lastly the focus can be on the federal level. Part of the reason Trump's nonsense has gotten this far, post-election I mean, is that he has Republican support in key positions in a few states. We can be sure that Republicans who have not gone along with this nonsense will be targeted for replacement by other pro-Trump Republicans in future elections. The way to stop that from happening is the Democratic party making an organized effort to change things locally. A party can lose at the highest levels and still wield power if they control the lower levels.

I'm skeptical they'll do this based on past history. Democrats remind me of a football team that gets ahead and then gets conservative. Instead of playing to win, they play to not lose. Republicans succeed because they play to win, whether they are ahead or just got their butts kicked.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Skinypupy »

Smoove_B wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:18 pm Not even trying anymore


Michiganders Erupt After Their Maskless Lawmakers Sip Dom Perignon At Trump Hotel
After appearing to acquit themselves rationally following a controversial White House meeting with President Donald Trump on Friday, Michigan’s lawmakers were photographed celebrating maskless and downing pricey Dom Perignon champagne in the Trump International Hotel.

Voters erupted, and “Dom Perignon” was quickly trending on Twitter. The bottles go for $500 to $950 each at the hotel, and if it was a treat from Trump, they were likely on an expense account paid for by taxpayers — state, or federal.

Michigan, meanwhile, suffered through 10,000 new cases of COVID-19 Friday — and 53 deaths.
And here we go...
The Michigan lawmaker went on to outline Trump’s path to victory in his state, which began with a Republican Party request to delay certification of the election for two weeks.

“We have 71 percent of the precincts in Wayne County, their absentee ballots books don’t match what is on the rolls,” he said. “That’s why the legislature, we’ve been doing our own investigations.”

“If there were to be a 2-2 split on the state Board of Canvassers, it would then go to the Michigan Supreme Court,” Chatfield continued. “If they didn’t have an order that it be certified, well now we have a constitutional crisis in the state of Michigan. It’s never occurred before because as the federal constitution says, this is left up to the state legislatures. The state legislature decided long ago to do it this way.”

“What if the state legislature is mixed on whether or not they have confidence in who won the greater number of votes?” Hegseth replied. “Then you’re in a interesting place.”
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by LordMortis »

Smoove_B wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:33 pm
YellowKing wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:10 pmthe fact that 74 million people voted to re-elect Trump.
In time, I think we're going to realize this was a much bigger problem than we initially realized. I can propose any number of solutions and offer up ideas on how we change operations, but I cannot come up with any way to address the 74 million of people that enthusiastically wanted to continue down the path we were on.
Coming in to the election season it was clear to me how much I underestimated the real support that 1/3rd, as disturbing as it was, was an underestimation and there was a very real chance at re-election. But that clarity doesn't help me see a way through it. It helped me be more comfortable with Biden as the choice to move forward but I can only hope his call to duty (and I think it is him answering a call more than him wanting to be POTUS) is going to help re-align things moving forward. How does he do it with this senate though and with the red states such as they are. Heck, the purple states, even? He won here and we have two blue senators and I'm still hoping he's got a team that can work with my state because I don't see it. We're friggen ugly here and the ugliness is deeply entrenched and looking for a fight, no concessions.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Skinypupy »

A better quick explanation.


And, by the way, Chatfield in this interview is absolutely setting up a scenario where the MI legislature sends their own slate of electors if the courts fail to break a deadlock, which means his meeting with Trump was exactly what we all thought it was:
Again, unlikely that they can pull all of this off, but frustrating that it’s even a possibility.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by malchior »

It frustrating that they can even talk about it openly. Most of us are trapped watching them lob grenades and the best we can do is hope they don't land too close.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

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It's 2020 you just know that they are going to deadlock even though they said they wouldn't. It won't accomplish anything except to make this country look even worse, but seriously fuck these people.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Smoove_B wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:18 pm Not even trying anymore


Michiganders Erupt After Their Maskless Lawmakers Sip Dom Perignon At Trump Hotel
After appearing to acquit themselves rationally following a controversial White House meeting with President Donald Trump on Friday, Michigan’s lawmakers were photographed celebrating maskless and downing pricey Dom Perignon champagne in the Trump International Hotel.

Voters erupted, and “Dom Perignon” was quickly trending on Twitter. The bottles go for $500 to $950 each at the hotel, and if it was a treat from Trump, they were likely on an expense account paid for by taxpayers — state, or federal.

Michigan, meanwhile, suffered through 10,000 new cases of COVID-19 Friday — and 53 deaths.
State legislatators are child's play. Weak and easily bought.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Holman »

Unagi wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:37 pm My 13 yr old kid is upset that Biden "isn't left enough", and I keep reminding them that 74 million people wanted to actually keep going with Trump, which is to say nothing to the fact that some of the Biden voters apparently then went on to hamstring Biden with a GOP senate. This country isn't headed for easy times.
My 14-yo is the same way. Maybe they've both been reading the same Reddit threads or whatever.

I love that the kids are engaged, but my fear is that tilting too far towards ideological extremes will leave them
incapable of accepting the compromises inherent in pluralistic democracy.

I hope this isn't the Bob Avakian generation.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Skinypupy »

Counterpoint.

My 7 year old today, unprompted, when a picture of Biden flashed on the screen during football.

“My friends all say that Biden is a huge jerk and Trump should be President no matter what.”

Le sigh...
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Skinypupy »

Goddammitsomuch. Here I was hoping tomorrow would just be normal.


Monday the Michigan Board of State Canvassers is supposed to certify the election results. The board has 2 Republicans and 2 Democrats.

@RepPaulMitchell, R-Michigan, says one of the Republicans has been planning for awhile to vote against certification. ...
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

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Is there any reason why Whitmer replacing the board members voting against certification wouldn't work? Can she replace them with non-Republicans?
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

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My understanding is that she can replace them, but it has to be with Republicans. I’d like to think it would be possible to find a sane Republican, but who the hell knows these days.

The guy who is (apparently) refusing to certify is a full-on QAnon nutter who has a history of this sort of nonsense. Is it too much to ask to find a way to get non-insane people in these roles of making critical decisions that affect millions of people?
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by El Guapo »

Skinypupy wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:19 pm My understanding is that she can replace them, but it has to be with Republicans. I’d like to think it would be possible to find a sane Republican, but who the hell knows these days.

The guy who is (apparently) refusing to certify is a full-on QAnon nutter who has a history of this sort of nonsense. Is it too much to ask to find a way to get non-insane people in these roles of making critical decisions that affect millions of people?
They should just appoint native son Mitt Romney.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by malchior »

Skinypupy wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:19 pm My understanding is that she can replace them, but it has to be with Republicans. I’d like to think it would be possible to find a sane Republican, but who the hell knows these days.

The guy who is (apparently) refusing to certify is a full-on QAnon nutter who has a history of this sort of nonsense. Is it too much to ask to find a way to get non-insane people in these roles of making critical decisions that affect millions of people?
The GOP is stuffing them into these positions for exactly this type of outcome.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Skinypupy »

The fact that a couple of nutjobs can - without a single actual shred of evidence - potentially overturn the will of millions of voters (or at least push that train significantly further down the track) is insane.

Our systems are far more fragile than I ever expected, primarily because they depend on the expectation that people will act responsibly and actually do their jobs. We’ve never expected to be in this scenario where they abdicate it entirely, and it’s entirely possible that the systems will fail.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

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Now that Murkowski has weighed in, I expect to see Susan Collins raise her eyebrows any moment.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Zaxxon »

Fine, maybe it's time to do something more concrete?

Ah, never mind. It's Susan Collins.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Jaymann »

There is still room under the bus! Sidney Powell has been jettisoned from Agolf's legal team.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Grifman »

Jaymann wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:22 pm There is still room under the bus! Sidney Powell has been jettisoned from Agolf's legal team.




Yep, and MAGA world is freaking out:





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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by YellowKing »

These guys don't just move the goalposts, they move the whole damn stadium.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by $iljanus »

YellowKing wrote:These guys don't just move the goalposts, they move the whole damn stadium.
And they don't just move the stadium, they blow the whole damn thing up, promise an even bigger more beautiful stadium and after getting investors end up having the game in front of a landscaping company.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Holman »

Ooooh, now Sidney Powell is going rogue.

She issued a statement this morning regarding Trump's disavowal (quoted rather than linked because I don't want to push traffic to the site):
I agree with the campaign's statement that I am not part of the campaign's legal team. I never signed a retainer agreement or sent the President or the campaign a bill for my expenses or fees.

My intent has always been to expose all the fraud I could find and let the chips fall where they may--whether it be upon Republicans or Democrats.

The evidence I'm compiling is overwhelming that this software tool was used to shift millions of votes from President Trump and other Republican candidates to Biden and other Democrat candidates. We are proceeding to prepare our lawsuit and plan to file it this week. It will be epic.

We will not allow this great Republic to be stolen by communists from without and within or our votes altered or manipulated by foreign actors in Hong Kong, Iran, Venezuela, or Serbia, for example, who have neither regard for human life nor the people who are the engine of this exceptional country.

#WeThePeople elected Donald Trump and other Republican candidates to restore the vision of America as a place of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

You may assist this effort by making a non tax-deductible contribution to www.DefendingTheRepublic.org. #KrakenOnSteroids"

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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

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We will not allow this great Republic to be stolen by communists from without and within living or dead.
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