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Election integrity and the transfer of power

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Little Raven
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Little Raven »

gameoverman wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:07 amI look at it a bit differently. You are talking about a specific set of circumstances in one election.
To be fair, I'm talking about 57 other elections, where the Supreme Court was not involved. Because the Constitution is fairly clear about how election law is to be handled - so it takes a VERY narrow range of circumstances to actually get the Court involved. Which is why it happens so rarely.
I'm sure they have their lawyers figuring out what ifs based on getting the election results in the Supreme Court's hands.
Lawyers charge by the hour, and there's billions of dollars to be hoovered up here, so no doubt someone somewhere is researching it. But on the list of things we need to worry about, this is pretty near the bottom. Mostly, it's not a very good way to go about "stealing" the election, for a couple of reasons.
  • It would be very, VERY hard to do. Even assuming that the Republicans are going to do it all....voting fraud, state house shenanigans, assassinating electors....assuming absolutely NOTHING is off the table.....you're still trying to set up an incredibly specific path of a events when you could just outright rig the election, or launch a coup, or something.
  • It's horribly unreliable. I know we've been so warped as a population that it's near impossible to see a person's partisan affiliation as anything other than an intrinsic, unalterable part of a person's character, but SC Justices do not see themselves that way. That doesn't mean ideologies NEVER align along partisan tracts...it does happen, but again, we're talking about a situation where the Republicans are willing to do ANYTHING to hold power. Why gamble on a bunch of people who frankly haven't proven very reliable over the last 4 years?
Until Republicans made up a rule preventing Obama from appointing a justice there was no such rule. And now that a Republican is President there isn't such a rule again. Don't underestimate their willingness to hack out a path if it's the path they want.
Sure, but that's Senator McConnell at work. We KNOW what he's all about. We have decades of legislative history to look at to prove it. We also have years to decades of jurisprudence to look at for ALL of the Justices...including Amy Coney Barrett...and virtually none of it suggests that even the worst of them (lookin' at you, Thomas) are cut from anything remotely resembling the same cloth.

Hell, they've had a 5-4 majority for a couple of years now, and they haven't exactly used it to remake America.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Paingod »

Little Raven wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:19 amHell, they've had a 5-4 majority for a couple of years now, and they haven't exactly used it to remake America.
When you've got 30 years to subtly push an agenda there's little reason to slam it home in 2. You work to normalize and support it and integrate it. They also have to pitch against whatever precedents already stand and make a good case to tear them down without looking like they're pushing that agenda. It's not easy.

I'm not saying the SCOTUS folks are in Trump's pocket, but they're certainly more willing to shift the rudder so the barge slowly turns the way they think it should.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by noxiousdog »

Paingod wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:14 am I think panic is on the same scale as worried, but a few steps above it.
I guess if the scale is logarithmic, maybe.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by YellowKing »

Little Raven wrote:It's horribly unreliable. I know we've been so warped as a population that it's near impossible to see a person's partisan affiliation as anything other than an intrinsic, unalterable part of a person's character, but SC Justices do not see themselves that way.
I don't think even most Republican officials are that way. Trump's plan assumes every state Republican election official and lawmaker would be willing to subvert the norms of their job and risk everything to keep Trump in power. I don't think that's realistic. One of Trump's weaknesses is believing that everyone is as corrupt as he is, which is simply not the case. Sure, we have a lot of Congress members who stay in lockstep with him in order to keep their constituents happy, but when you start getting down to state and local officials, there's not a heck of a lot of reason to throw away all your morals and job duties for this guy.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by noxiousdog »

YellowKing wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:42 am
Little Raven wrote:It's horribly unreliable. I know we've been so warped as a population that it's near impossible to see a person's partisan affiliation as anything other than an intrinsic, unalterable part of a person's character, but SC Justices do not see themselves that way.
I don't think even most Republican officials are that way. Trump's plan assumes every state Republican election official and lawmaker would be willing to subvert the norms of their job and risk everything to keep Trump in power. I don't think that's realistic. One of Trump's weaknesses is believing that everyone is as corrupt as he is, which is simply not the case. Sure, we have a lot of Congress members who stay in lockstep with him in order to keep their constituents happy, but when you start getting down to state and local officials, there's not a heck of a lot of reason to throw away all your morals and job duties for this guy.
I absolutely think this way. Most of the Republican congressmen would love him voted out as that sets up a great scenario. They get to go back to being the party of "no" without a crazy person at the top. With an incoming recession it sets up perfectly for them, especially with having a 6-3 SC majority.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by malchior »

YellowKing wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:42 am
Little Raven wrote:It's horribly unreliable. I know we've been so warped as a population that it's near impossible to see a person's partisan affiliation as anything other than an intrinsic, unalterable part of a person's character, but SC Justices do not see themselves that way.
I don't think even most Republican officials are that way. Trump's plan assumes every state Republican election official and lawmaker would be willing to subvert the norms of their job and risk everything to keep Trump in power. I don't think that's realistic. One of Trump's weaknesses is believing that everyone is as corrupt as he is, which is simply not the case. Sure, we have a lot of Congress members who stay in lockstep with him in order to keep their constituents happy, but when you start getting down to state and local officials, there's not a heck of a lot of reason to throw away all your morals and job duties for this guy.
I agree - nationwide - that is why the chances are small that he'll succeed. However, he does have an extremely loyal following in a good portion of the population. We do not know how they'll react yet. We also have a Federal government has been nearly completely undermined. We have enough evidence to say he has loyal command of most of the Federal government's political apparatus.

Let's say we need civic disobedience to curtail him. Will Federal workers walk out and refuse to work? Maybe. Will the Generals stand up against him? Maybe. But look at what we are considering here. The institutions are already severely compromised and damaged. DOJ is releasing political missives about compromised ballots in the midst of a contentious political election. Who knows what they will do next. Trump doesn't have to succeed for this to continue to be a extremely corrosive moment in our history. There are red alarm level risks everywhere right now.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Paingod »

YellowKing wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:42 am One of Trump's weaknesses is believing that everyone is as corrupt as he is, which is simply not the case.
Worth noting: This was also how Sauron was defeated.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by $iljanus »

YellowKing wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:42 am
Little Raven wrote:It's horribly unreliable. I know we've been so warped as a population that it's near impossible to see a person's partisan affiliation as anything other than an intrinsic, unalterable part of a person's character, but SC Justices do not see themselves that way.
I don't think even most Republican officials are that way. Trump's plan assumes every state Republican election official and lawmaker would be willing to subvert the norms of their job and risk everything to keep Trump in power. I don't think that's realistic. One of Trump's weaknesses is believing that everyone is as corrupt as he is, which is simply not the case. Sure, we have a lot of Congress members who stay in lockstep with him in order to keep their constituents happy, but when you start getting down to state and local officials, there's not a heck of a lot of reason to throw away all your morals and job duties for this guy.
All you need is a few key people in some swing states to keep Trump in power. It is the evil that works in the shadows manipulating the laws that we really don’t pay much attention to which will do us in.

Have a great weekend! :D
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Defiant »

Three fifths of the population support abolishing the Electoral College
A strong majority of Americans support amending the U.S. Constitution to replace the Electoral College with a popular vote system, according to a new poll from Gallup.

The survey found that 61 percent support moving to a popular vote system, up 6 points from 2019 and up 12 points from 2016.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

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There’s that pesky ~39% again.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by gameoverman »

Little Raven wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:19 amHell, they've had a 5-4 majority for a couple of years now, and they haven't exactly used it to remake America.
Well, let's remember that the conservative justices on the court before Trump was elected were not picked by him. They were not selected during the Trump era of absolute division within the country. For this reason I wouldn't look at 2016-2020 as an example of what a Trump loaded court will be doing. His administration and senate buddies have also been partnering to get many other judges appointed, not just Supreme Court justices. I think of that as them playing chess and moving their pieces around to set things up. THEN they take action. They are laying the foundation for right wing control well after Trump and McConnell and the rest of the current crop are long gone from the scene.

Even up to this point they are not flagrantly admitting to what they are about, they pay lip service to making it sound like they are the good guys. Example: Graham setting up his flip flop on not supporting a nomination during an election year by saying the Democrats, in the way they handled Cavanaugh, have forced him into a position of supporting a nomination now. He's the good guy, he can't allow Democrats to do it again. That's why it hasn't been a full on push since day one to get the Supreme Court to rule on their pet issues. It's not their style. They are sneaky and patient. They'll get everything in position and slowly squeeze like a boa constrictor.

As to remaking America, I don't know about you but today's America does not resemble the America I remember from as recently as Obama's last year in office. If that's not a remake it's a pretty good imitation of one.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by YellowKing »

I read a stat the other day that only one Republican President (W's second term) has won the popular vote since 1992. Granted it's a bit of a cherry pick, but it does illustrate why that 39% need the Electoral College to survive.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by El Guapo »

gameoverman wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:47 pm
Little Raven wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:19 amHell, they've had a 5-4 majority for a couple of years now, and they haven't exactly used it to remake America.
Well, let's remember that the conservative justices on the court before Trump was elected were not picked by him. They were not selected during the Trump era of absolute division within the country. For this reason I wouldn't look at 2016-2020 as an example of what a Trump loaded court will be doing. His administration and senate buddies have also been partnering to get many other judges appointed, not just Supreme Court justices. I think of that as them playing chess and moving their pieces around to set things up. THEN they take action. They are laying the foundation for right wing control well after Trump and McConnell and the rest of the current crop are long gone from the scene.

Even up to this point they are not flagrantly admitting to what they are about, they pay lip service to making it sound like they are the good guys. Example: Graham setting up his flip flop on not supporting a nomination during an election year by saying the Democrats, in the way they handled Cavanaugh, have forced him into a position of supporting a nomination now. He's the good guy, he can't allow Democrats to do it again. That's why it hasn't been a full on push since day one to get the Supreme Court to rule on their pet issues. It's not their style. They are sneaky and patient. They'll get everything in position and slowly squeeze like a boa constrictor.

As to remaking America, I don't know about you but today's America does not resemble the America I remember from as recently as Obama's last year in office. If that's not a remake it's a pretty good imitation of one.
Also we shouldn't undersell what the conservative SCOTUS majority has done. They've made abortion de facto illegal in large chunks of the country. They destroyed the Voting Rights Act on pretty baseless grounds not long after it received overwhelming renewal in Congress. They came within one vote of destroying the ACA on pretty spurious grounds (and with Ginsburg gone, may yet annihilate the whole law). They've undermined a lot of restrictions on police misconduct.

The inherent limits on judicial power (vs. legislative power) mean that even the most aggressive SCOTUS can't completely remake the country. But we shouldn't undersell what they've done with the power that they have. And there's room for it to get a lot worse.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by malchior »

"Highly unusual". "Fears of Justice Dept. politicization". Historians are going to wonder if these people were gobbling muscle relaxers or something.

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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Skinypupy »

Baker had a great response when asked about Trump's comments.

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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Unagi »

malchior wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:45 pm "Fears of Justice Dept. politicization".
LOL!
wtf
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by hepcat »

Damn....gonna have to move to Mass. so I can vote for Baker now, aren’t I?
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

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Love the little head shake at the end. He can’t believe that he is having to answer such a ridiculous question.

Right there with ya, Guv. Lots of national SMH going around these days
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by malchior »

I give the Cain Gang props. Translating from Ouija board to Tweet is pretty labor intensive...and naturally exposes them to supernatural risk. They are doing the anti-lord's work right!
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Kraken »

hepcat wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:28 pm Damn....gonna have to move to Mass. so I can vote for Baker now, aren’t I?
He's literally the only Republican in the US that I defend. More than 80% of Mass. Democrats feel the same way. In fact, he's more popular here with D's than with R's.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

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I’ve got a small crush on him now too.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Got this email from Chicago Board of elections, looks like they're doing in and outbound tracking and direct dropoff.


Dear [LawBeefaroni]

The Chicago Board of Election Commissioners has mailed a ballot to the address that you provided on your application. Your packet includes a postage-paid Ballot Return Envelope.

NEW TRACKING SYSTEM

Track the mailing of the ballot to you – and then track your Ballot Return Envelope back to the Election Board here:

[Unique tracking link]

Important information on marking and returning ballots:

Be sure to sign the Ballot Return Envelope just like you signed your voter registration. Your signature will be checked against your voter-registration record.

Are 2 or more voters in your household Voting By Mail? Be sure each voter uses and signs the Ballot Return Envelope with that voter’s name on it!

New this fall: You may submit the Ballot Return Envelope at a secured drop box at any Chicago Early Voting location!

If you use standard US mail to return your Ballot Return Envelope, you must get a postmark before or on Election Day, Nov. 3.
If you do not receive your ballot in the next seven days:

call 312-269-xxxx or
email xxx@chicagoelections.gov

If you are in Chicago and do not receive your ballot by the Monday before Election Day, visit https://chicagoelections.gov to find how to vote in person at any Early Voting site on Monday or at your home precinct polling place on Election Day, Nov. 3.

Sincerely,

Chicago Board of Election Commissioners

Video: how to vote by mail.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Speechless...that I am still surprised by stuff like this.

Excerpt from today’s Atlantic, Ideas section:

‘For Trumpian commentators, Democrats and the president’s other critics are only raising these concerns because they want to orchestrate a coup of their own. In a recent essay, “The Coming Coup?,” the former Trump-administration official Michael Anton warns his readers that Democrats are laying the groundwork for the “unlawful and illegitimate removal of President Trump from office.” Their tactic, he says, is to condition the public into thinking that Trump will try to steal the election so that if he wins, they can cry foul. They will then, Anton predicts, organize “a ‘color revolution,’ the exact same playbook the American deep state runs in other countries whose leadership they don’t like and is currently running in Belarus. Oust a leader—even an elected one—through agitation and call it ‘democracy.’” Anton advises Trump to prepare now to determine who will be loyal in the days after the election so that he can prevail.’
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by LawBeefaroni »

They have elevated projection to heights never seen before in even the most propagandist regimes.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Holman »

Michael Anton is a lunatic who believes that all Muslims are by definition enemies and that George Soros personally controls the Left, but defending Trump as America's Lukashenko is a peak moment.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Holman wrote:Michael Anton is a lunatic who believes that all Muslims are by definition enemies and that George Soros personally controls the Left, but defending Trump as America's Lukashenko is a peak moment.
When I see shit like this, just totally off the chart WTF...it does make me wonder if these people actually BELIEVE what they are saying, or is it just more doubling down bc they are far too deep in it to back out now.

I usually come down on the side of the latter, as a lot of them are obviously not stupid. And it would take an extraordinary amount of mental gymnastics to buy into some these theories. And by that I mean some serious lying to oneself.

Also, this particular example is so blatantly targeted at the left’s current uproar over ‘election theft’ that it really smacks of a dishonest, strategic defense as opposed to some right wing ‘thinker’s’ strongly held beliefs or theories.

Would not be surprised if someone on team Re-elect Trump actively ‘generated’ this idea and had this guy throw it out there for the sharks.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

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Follow the bouncing ball.
WYFF4 wrote:Witness signatures not required on absentee-by-mail ballots in South Carolina after latest court ruling

GREENVILLE, S.C. —
South Carolinians will not have to get their absentee-by-mail ballots signed by a witness before sending them back, after the latest court ruling on Friday.

Chris Whitmire, with the South Carolina Election Commission, said Monday that the full United States Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals overturned the ruling of the court’s three-judge panel issued a day earlier.

In effect, the most recent ruling reinstates the United States District Court’s Sept. 19 order suspending the witness requirement.

The court case is ongoing and is subject to change.

"We are seeking quick resolution of the matter to alleviate confusion and provide voters with clear instructions as soon as possible," Whitmire said.

Election commission officials say they will continue to notify the public of any changes to the witness requirement through scvotes.org.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Grifman »

Trump voter suppression of African Americans in 2016, probably happening now:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... rom-voting
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

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I got my California mail-in ballot today. I am confident my vote will be counted.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Last night Trump told all his supporters to just go to polls and be poll watchers. It's going to be a mess. . I imagine many will start showing up armed to protect their right to...unlawfully do something?
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Paingod »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:06 amLast night Trump told all his supporters to just go to polls and be poll watchers. It's going to be a mess. . I imagine many will start showing up armed to protect their right to...unlawfully do something?
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Smoove_B »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:06 am Last night Trump told all his supporters to just go to polls and be poll watchers. It's going to be a mess. . I imagine many will start showing up armed to protect their right to...unlawfully do something?
I'm surprised the Trump campaign didn't start selling brown T-shirts with "Poll Watcher" printed on it today.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by $iljanus »

Smoove_B wrote:
LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:06 am Last night Trump told all his supporters to just go to polls and be poll watchers. It's going to be a mess. . I imagine many will start showing up armed to protect their right to...unlawfully do something?
I'm surprised the Trump campaign didn't start selling brown T-shirts with "Poll Watcher" printed on it today.
I'm sure they're available on those websites that I don't recommend visiting from work or a public computer.

I always thought this was a powerful scene from Caberet. Never thought about its relevance for today though...

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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Screw it. Time to party.


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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Smoove_B »

How has Trump not started using that song at rallies? Seems on-brand at this point.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by $iljanus »

Smoove_B wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:20 am How has Trump not started using that song at rallies? Seems on-brand at this point.
At the end of the scene Brian asks Max, "Do you still think you can control them?" Max just shrugs. Yeah, this sums it up nicely...
Black lives matter!

Wise words of warning from Smoove B: Oh, how you all laughed when I warned you about the semen. Well, who's laughing now?
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Carpet_pissr »

I’m the old geezer shaking his head in dismay from that scene.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

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Buying a t-shirt that says, "Bad things happen in Philly".
"pcp, lsd, thc, tgb...it's all good." ~ Kraken
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