The Biden Presidency Thread

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Little Raven
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Re: The Biden Presidency Thread

Post by Little Raven »

malchior wrote: Sat Nov 07, 2020 6:30 pm When the pandemic happened they held a gun to everyone's head to stuff the pockets of the rich *and* keep who got paid a secret.
The CARES act was as bipartisan as they come. Passed 419 to 6 in the House. (2 of the nays were Republican) Passed the Senate unanimously. It has plenty of flaws but it is not a Republican creature.
They basically re-made the judiciary - the GOP pipeline end-to-end did that with their counter majoritarian over representation.
And yet not one of Trump's lawsuits has found fruit despite such fertile ground. I grant that the full scope of the changes to the judiciary has yet to be seen, but as of now, it still seems to be working.

Moreover, why are you bringing up non-legislative Republican victories without mentioning the non-legislative Democratic ones? There have been a few big ones.
Sure they had Obama as a President for 8 years but they have *ONE* signature policy in 20 years. ACA.
Did you forget the end of DADT? The DREAM Act? DACA? The ADA Amendments Act? The Dodd–Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act, and it's child, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau? Moving legislation is hard, but the Democrats do what they can. The Republicans barely manage it at all.
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Re: The Biden Presidency Thread

Post by Kraken »

dbt1949 wrote: Sat Nov 07, 2020 6:12 pm I'm sure Biden means well and will try hard but I really don't see things changing much except for more civil discord coming from the president.
My most fervent hope is that things will stop getting so much worse so fast when the madman is gone. If a few things around the margins actually get better, that's a big win.
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Re: The Biden Presidency Thread

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Re: The Biden Presidency Thread

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Wasting no time.
Joe Biden plans Monday to name a 12-member task force to combat and contain the spread of the coronavirus, sources tell Axios.

The task force will be led by three co-chairs: former Surgeon General Vivek Murthy, former Food and Drug Administration Commissioner David Kessler and Dr. Marcella Nunez-Smith from Yale University.
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Re: The Biden Presidency Thread

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Re: The Biden Presidency Thread

Post by malchior »

Little Raven wrote: Sat Nov 07, 2020 7:12 pm
malchior wrote: Sat Nov 07, 2020 6:30 pm When the pandemic happened they held a gun to everyone's head to stuff the pockets of the rich *and* keep who got paid a secret.
The CARES act was as bipartisan as they come. Passed 419 to 6 in the House. (2 of the nays were Republican) Passed the Senate unanimously. It has plenty of flaws but it is not a Republican creature.
How it passed how nothing to do with it. You're oblique to the argument. The Democrats in a crisis accepted looting to get relief to communities. They did that in 2008 too. Both are hardly a victory for good government. Good grief.
And yet not one of Trump's lawsuits has found fruit despite such fertile ground. I grant that the full scope of the changes to the judiciary has yet to be seen, but as of now, it still seems to be working.
This entirely misses the point made. The Supreme Court essentially has ruled out stopping gerrymandering and attacks on voting rights. We're about to see Florida turned into a near-permanent GOP state like WI. It isn't whether they tore up the Constitution theatrically in some blatant power grab. They've put their thumb on the scale for even more potential GOP dominance and will continue to do so.

Even so, Barrett just sat. They had Kennedy anchoring the middle then Roberts anchoring the center-right. The current state is that the GOP is essentially one of the most right-wing parties in the world. And the Federalists are aligned with that. The next few years will have a parade of right-wing laws passed in various red states, people are going to fill the docket with cases, and we'll start seeing regressive Supreme Court rulings. It is pretty much inevitable. We thought maybe the Democrats would have to discuss expanding the court to counter this. That might have been a credible enough 'threat' to put a lid on things. Now that it is off the table there is a decent chance we are going to see a very activist right-wing court.
Moreover, why are you bringing up non-legislative Republican victories without mentioning the non-legislative Democratic ones? There have been a few big ones.
Sure they had Obama as a President for 8 years but they have *ONE* signature policy in 20 years. ACA.
Did you forget the end of DADT? The DREAM Act? DACA? The ADA Amendments Act?
All great -- well except for the Dream Act since it isn't law--but hardly a dent in the changes the Republicans have brought to our society. It's also funny that you'd mention DACA since it was a heartbeat away from being dismantled. And circling back to the Dream Act really? Something they've been trying to work through since 2001 and still isn't law? In any case, Bush deported a lot of people. Obama deported even more. Trump *LOCKED CHILDREN IN FUCKING CAGES AND LOST THEIR PARENTS*. All those assholes are still in the government. Good luck to Biden to fix that shit show. ICE and CBP are going to be a real treat for him.
The Dodd–Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act, and it's child, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau?
Effectiveness gutted by the Republicans. It'll swing back into limited action in the Biden administration and then the next time a Republican is in charge the rules will be rescinded again. Solid government in action. And that's part of the point I'm making - Republicans have been dominant because they don't care about policy stability if they don't agree to it. They'll happily stomp all over it and make the government non-functional as long as the wealthy get to keep making all the rules.
Moving legislation is hard, but the Democrats do what they can. The Republicans barely manage it at all.
They haven't needed to. That's the point. They've been dominating the entire government through smashing norms, agreements, and good governance for a long time.
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Re: The Biden Presidency Thread

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The man walks out with a mask. :handgestures-thumbup:
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Re: The Biden Presidency Thread

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malchior wrote: Sat Nov 07, 2020 8:42 pmYou're oblique to the argument.
I understand your augment just fine, Mal. It's not like it's nuanced.

"Everything the Democrats do is stupid/pointless/gutted/worthless. Everything the Republicans do is Machiavellian genius, it just hasn't QUITE come into focus yet. We are all probably doomed. I can't believe I have to keep explaining this to smooth-brains like you and Grif." :)

I just disagree with your argument. I realize I'm not going to convince you, and that's fine. It's a cynical age - you'll have plenty of company on the Nihilism USA Tour. You and RM9 can hit a bar, have a couple of beers, and laugh at what idiots the Democrats are for trying to make things better as best they can instead of....oh, where was that list.....ah yes...removing the EC, implementing ranked choice voting, and driving. (seriously, do it - I have it on excellent authority that RM is a cool dude. You'll have a good time!)

But I won't be joining you. (on the Tour Bus, anyway. I'm always down for a beer!)
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Re: The Biden Presidency Thread

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Little Raven wrote: Sat Nov 07, 2020 8:18 pm Wasting no time.
Joe Biden plans Monday to name a 12-member task force to combat and contain the spread of the coronavirus, sources tell Axios.

The task force will be led by three co-chairs: former Surgeon General Vivek Murthy, former Food and Drug Administration Commissioner David Kessler and Dr. Marcella Nunez-Smith from Yale University.
Waaiiiiiitttt a minute. Those people are health professionals. What game is Biden playing here! Where’s a former McDonald’s CEO or a relative!?
Covfefe!
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Re: The Biden Presidency Thread

Post by Holman »

He sounds great tonight.

God, it has been so long.
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Re: The Biden Presidency Thread

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Holman wrote:He sounds great tonight.

God, it has been so long.
Like water to a person who has been wandering in the desert for almost 4 years.
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Re: The Biden Presidency Thread

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Blackhawk wrote: Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:41 pm The man walks out with a mask. :handgestures-thumbup:
And followed it up with a wonderfully bland speech(which I was riveted to, for the record) about coming together and healing and blah blah blah. Off to a great start. I don't want to doomscroll twitter at 2am anymore wondering if our president has just tried to nuke a hurricane.
I am extremely ashamed to admit I was not at all conscious of the fact that we elected our first female VP during the centennial of the 19th amendment. :oops: Love that Biden had her come out and talk; he is keenly aware of who got him where he is and what this moment needs from his administration.
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Re: The Biden Presidency Thread

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hepcat wrote: Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:58 pmWaaiiiiiitttt a minute. Those people are health professionals. What game is Biden playing here! Where’s a former McDonald’s CEO or a relative!?
Honestly, one of Trump's bigger problems (and this is saying something, since the man had a LOT of problems) was that after a very short time he could never get anyone of any quality to work for him. (Remember this particularly accurate cartoon from the New Yorker?)

Biden will have many problems, but this will NOT be one of them, and our country will rapidly reap the benefits.
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Re: The Biden Presidency Thread

Post by Skinypupy »

Blackhawk wrote: Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:41 pm The man walks ran out with a mask.
FTFY. An act that I think was 100% intentional, btw.

In any other timeline, that would have been a bland speech for a President-Elect. In this one, it was damn near perfect.
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Re: The Biden Presidency Thread

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Pretty sure I’ve had dinner with malchior once upon a time, but I don’t think that he and I are cut from the same cloth. For one, I’m not a Democrat, and I’m not thoroughly liberal.

My only point in all of this is that there are two sides, and only one is trying to play fair. While that’s true, the party playing fair will continue to get nothing done.

The country didn’t elect Biden to be a moderate Republican. They elected Biden. So be Biden.

You could argue that the people also elected a GOP senate to balance things out, if it wasn’t for Mitch McConnell, whose not interested in balancing anything.

He’s interested in there not being a second term for Biden or Harris. And that’s it. He’s not interested in compromising for America, and neither is any other GOP Senator.
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Re: The Biden Presidency Thread

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Blackhawk wrote: Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:41 pm The man jogs out with a mask. :handgestures-thumbup:
edit: Oh boy, let the bammimg commence.
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Re: The Biden Presidency Thread

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RunningMn9 wrote: Sat Nov 07, 2020 11:18 pmMy only point in all of this is that there are two sides, and only one is trying to play fair. While that’s true, the party playing fair will continue to get nothing done.
We're already getting a Coronavirus task force full of ACTUAL experts who will be taken seriously by the incoming administration. It's not the GND, sure....but it's not nothing.

I do understand your point, though, and I even agree somewhat. The next few years are likely to be very frustrating. But then, politics generally is. It's still the only game in town.
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Re: The Biden Presidency Thread

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You’re getting a coronavirus task force that has no authority to do *anything* until the end of January.

As noted elsewhere, there are two very important things that President Biden can do:

1) Stop pouring gasoline on America.
2) Restore competency to the Executive Branch.

His expert-driven coronavirus task force is an example of 2).

That’s separate from a discussion about what the Democratic Party can do overall, legislatively.
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Re: The Biden Presidency Thread

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And so it begins.
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Re: The Biden Presidency Thread

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Since when is Kaisch a “Biden surrogate”?
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Re: The Biden Presidency Thread

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Skinypupy wrote:Since when is Kaisch a “Biden surrogate”?
Since at least the conventions. Probably before that.
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Re: The Biden Presidency Thread

Post by Skinypupy »

msteelers wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 12:05 am
Skinypupy wrote:Since when is Kaisch a “Biden surrogate”?
Since at least the conventions. Probably before that.
I saw him more as a “Conservative Whisperer” rather than someone who was speaking on behalf of Biden.

Maybe I misread that.
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Re: The Biden Presidency Thread

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Watching the speeches tonight, I was really impressed with VP-elect Harris, so much so that I was afraid Biden would certainly pale in comparison. Then the man comes RUNNING out on to the stage and just killed it. Bland? Maybe. But poised and confident and delivered with energy and conviction and competence. What a change! After four years of lunacy in the WH, I feel like I can actually breathe again.

In terms of substance, I heard Biden set out 4 priorities: (1) get the pandemic under control; (2) address the problems with our economy; (3) tackle climate change in a serious way; and (4) make serious effort to get after systemic racism and its impact on society. As far as agendas go, that works for me.

And for those criticizing Biden and the Dems for trying to work with Republicans, WTF? We can't look at what the GOP has done over and over again and take from that the lesson that obstruction and complete partisan non-cooperation is a path forward. There's no successful path forward for this country that revolves around half the country dictating to the other half how things are going to be and shoving it down their throat. That hasn't worked for the GOP, and it won't work for Democrats if they take a page out of the GOP playbook.

If I were Biden, I'd be on the phone to McConnel ASAP. I hate that fucking turtle, but it's pretty clear that he's going to remain in control of the Senate. Biden should sit down with him and try to have a frank discussion about what McConnel wants and what he realistically thinks he can achieve. Maybe there are no deals to be made, and maybe there's no common ground, but I certainly wouldn't ding Biden for exploring it. If there's a way to give McConnel a win and achieve something positive for the country, the fact that McConnel is a reprehensible scumbag shouldn't prevent that from happening.
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Re: The Biden Presidency Thread

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:D totally agree Kurth!
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Re: The Biden Presidency Thread

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I'll call it now. This thread doesn't get to 580 pages.
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Re: The Biden Presidency Thread

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I'd be on the phone to McConnel ASAP
Fro ma health and age standpoint I dont think that dickbag will be alive much longer. Who takes over when he burst into flames?
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Re: The Biden Presidency Thread

Post by Kurth »

Daehawk wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 1:23 am
I'd be on the phone to McConnel ASAP
Fro ma health and age standpoint I dont think that dickbag will be alive much longer. Who takes over when he burst into flames?
Fine by me if he doesn't survive the next tumble down the stairs. Hard for me to imagine someone worse.
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Re: The Biden Presidency Thread

Post by malchior »

Kurth wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 12:38 am Watching the speeches tonight, I was really impressed with VP-elect Harris, so much so that I was afraid Biden would certainly pale in comparison. Then the man comes RUNNING out on to the stage and just killed it. Bland? Maybe. But poised and confident and delivered with energy and conviction and competence. What a change! After four years of lunacy in the WH, I feel like I can actually breathe again.

In terms of substance, I heard Biden set out 4 priorities: (1) get the pandemic under control; (2) address the problems with our economy; (3) tackle climate change in a serious way; and (4) make serious effort to get after systemic racism and its impact on society. As far as agendas go, that works for me.
Agreed - straightforward and not hard to explain like a good strategy should be. I'll note that this however plays a lot into what our allies have been worried about. On the run up I read several pieces in their press and they expressed variations of worry that even with a Biden win, Trump has done so much damage that we'll have to focus on ourselves even if it isn't some faux muscular America First! bullshit. And that probably will be the case.
And for those criticizing Biden and the Dems for trying to work with Republicans, WTF? We can't look at what the GOP has done over and over again and take from that the lesson that obstruction and complete partisan non-cooperation is a path forward. There's no successful path forward for this country that revolves around half the country dictating to the other half how things are going to be and shoving it down their throat. That hasn't worked for the GOP, and it won't work for Democrats if they take a page out of the GOP playbook.

If I were Biden, I'd be on the phone to McConnel ASAP. I hate that fucking turtle, but it's pretty clear that he's going to remain in control of the Senate. Biden should sit down with him and try to have a frank discussion about what McConnel wants and what he realistically thinks he can achieve. Maybe there are no deals to be made, and maybe there's no common ground, but I certainly wouldn't ding Biden for exploring it. If there's a way to give McConnel a win and achieve something positive for the country, the fact that McConnel is a reprehensible scumbag shouldn't prevent that from happening.
At least for me, there is an expectation they must try. Absolutely but Biden has to be careful not to walk into any traps the GOP is going to set or accept conditions that have too high a price. The GOP has been waging a political war that the Democrats don't even acknowledge half the time. It is a precarious negotiation and he has to be ready to fight. Despite everything, I'd still wager that Biden has a disadvantage going into this.
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Correct but the rub is the consensus piece. The GOP has been ruling like that doesn't matter for a long time. What a lot of people worry about and what Biden has to take into account is that the GOP can not *appear* to set the agenda. Biden has to maintain the coalition and find some way to build it. He can't play too much to the progressives but can't ignore them. And the outcome shows that Biden got as much out of the "center" as he probably ever will. They need to make gains in 2 years and that looks like a steep, steep uphill battle.
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Re: The Biden Presidency Thread

Post by malchior »

Little Raven wrote: Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:31 pm
malchior wrote: Sat Nov 07, 2020 8:42 pmYou're oblique to the argument.
I understand your augment just fine, Mal. It's not like it's nuanced.

"Everything the Democrats do is stupid/pointless/gutted/worthless. Everything the Republicans do is Machiavellian genius, it just hasn't QUITE come into focus yet. We are all probably doomed. I can't believe I have to keep explaining this to smooth-brains like you and Grif." :)
And we're back to strawmen.
I just disagree with your argument.
You don't disagree with me. You disagree with some shadow of the argument. At least that is what I see when I see strawmen arguments slung back as your common response. You think you are getting it but what I see is you keep missing the points over and over. To be clear, there is no intended message that it is hopeless. The message should be that it is horribly bad and we've got a lot of extremely difficult problems to face. I just think that your version of the world is not well aligned with what is actually going on and you can't see it. I spelled out specific points, positions, and examples and your response is that it is "not nuanced" and responded with misrepresentation. Well I failed to communicate or you failed to understand it. Whatever the case all attempts at communication have failed.
I realize I'm not going to convince you, and that's fine. It's a cynical age - you'll have plenty of company on the Nihilism USA Tour. You and RM9 can hit a bar, have a couple of beers, and laugh at what idiots the Democrats are for trying to make things better as best they can instead of....oh, where was that list.....ah yes...removing the EC, implementing ranked choice voting, and driving. (seriously, do it - I have it on excellent authority that RM is a cool dude. You'll have a good time!)
They were some random policy ideas. They aren't sold as some complete framework. In fact, they are more like spackle. We need to do far better if we want a lasting system. They aren't even a good path. That you even take this as nihilism is a symptom that you simply don't get it. It isn't nihilistic to recognize that we are facing systemic failure to the point that we have nearly everyone talking about it. Our allies. Our newspapers. Foreign leaders are practically treating this election result like we overthrew a dictator. Pointing out this is *not normal* and not something we fix easily is just practical.
Last edited by malchior on Sun Nov 08, 2020 3:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Biden Presidency Thread

Post by malchior »

RunningMn9 wrote: Sat Nov 07, 2020 11:18 pm Pretty sure I’ve had dinner with malchior once upon a time, but I don’t think that he and I are cut from the same cloth. For one, I’m not a Democrat, and I’m not thoroughly liberal.
Once long ago. The mistake everyone makes is that I'm a liberal. I'm not. Obama was the first Democrat I ever voted for and I drifted from registered Republican when the GOP started going haywire. My perspective is as a former GOP party member who watched it race away to the right and didn't like what I saw.
My only point in all of this is that there are two sides, and only one is trying to play fair. While that’s true, the party playing fair will continue to get nothing done.
This is my point without all the technical stuff layered on. I liken it to playing a board game with a 'rules lawyer', sometimes you win against them, sometimes you don't, but you always lose in the long run because the rules are always being distorted in their favor at any moment.
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Re: The Biden Presidency Thread

Post by The Meal »

Alefroth wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 1:14 am I'll call it now. This thread doesn't get to 580 pages.
580 page threads make it impossible to determine history.

Please, for the love of OO, let us create a new thread every time something of note exists to be discussed. PLEASE.

(Also, abolish "Random" threads of all kinds!)

Change this thread title. Make it the "Biden Elected President" thread.
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Re: The Biden Presidency Thread

Post by Jaymann »

Alefroth wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 1:14 am I'll call it now. This thread doesn't get to 580 pages.
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Re: The Biden Presidency Thread

Post by Little Raven »

malchior wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 2:55 amWhatever the case all attempts at communication have failed.
Mmmm. It's shocking how often that seems to happen with you. And only with you. :wink:
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Re: The Biden Presidency Thread

Post by malchior »

Little Raven wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 4:01 am
malchior wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 2:55 amWhatever the case all attempts at communication have failed.
Mmmm. It's shocking how often that seems to happen with you. And only with you. :wink:
Robust debate should be sharpened by conflict with opposing ideas. That isn't what is happening here. If I write out a detailed position, you for whatever reason think that boiling that down to something I didn't write is acceptable. When I challenge that you we get posts like this which are frankly unacceptable. I'm not interested in that dynamic.

Edit: Toned it down.
Last edited by malchior on Sun Nov 08, 2020 9:10 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Zarathud
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Re: The Biden Presidency Thread

Post by Zarathud »

Biden doesn't have to negotiate with McConnell. He knows enough of the older Republican Senators to make the phone calls and twist arms to get a deal directly. McConnell and Trump turned negotiations into posturing and dead ends for the Democrats. Biden can short-cut that power dynamic.
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malchior
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Re: The Biden Presidency Thread

Post by malchior »

That might work and appears to be what Biden is gambling on. It remains to be seen. McConnell will still largely set the agenda in the Senate barring some sort of 50/50 miracle. Since McConnell has over time essentially adopted a version of the Hastert rule, Biden theoretically would have to get at least half the GOP Senators on board with anything. That'll be tough. The best chance he has is probably a compromise stimulus package. That might be enough to establish a honeymoon period.
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Ralph-Wiggum
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Re: The Biden Presidency Thread

Post by Ralph-Wiggum »

So any speculation on who might be chosen to replace Harris as senator?
Black Lives Matter
malchior
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Re: The Biden Presidency Thread

Post by malchior »

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 9:34 am So any speculation on who might be chosen to replace Harris as senator?
Schiff has to be on the shortlist but I'm guessing it won't be. The speculation I heard loudest is around Bass or Padilla.
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RunningMn9
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Re: The Biden Presidency Thread

Post by RunningMn9 »

Biden is the President, he is free to try anything he wants. The last 12 years have taught me that will be a fruitless effort, and there has better be a plan to do what needs to be done with a painfully obstructionist Senate that suddenly cares about federal spending again.
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
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Smoove_B
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Re: The Biden Presidency Thread

Post by Smoove_B »


Biden is planning to quickly sign a series of executive orders after being sworn in on January 20:

-Rejoin the Paris climate accords
-Reverse Trump's withdrawal from the World Health Organization
-Repeal the Muslim ban
-Reinstate the DREAMer program
Maybe next year, maybe no go
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