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Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

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El Guapo
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by El Guapo »

malchior wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:20 pm
El Guapo wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:13 pmAs a federal employee I am prohibited from inviting people to donate to any particular candidate, even in my private capacity and on my own time. Which seems of dubious constitutionality to me.
According to Citizen United...yeah it is in question. Do I think that government employees can truly separate their public/private dealings in a material matter in front of them that doesn't taint institutions? No I don't think so. I think it's a necessary tradeoff to have limited restrictions.
Yeah, some restrictions makes a ton of sense. And the Hatch Act does draw a sensible line between senior and non-senior people - like, the SEC chair is a public figure, so they don't have the same capacity to draw a line between their public and private activity (any political solicitation from them is inherently linked to their agency).

But some of the lines are pretty silly at the staff level. I can get actively involved in a partisan political campaign if I want to as long as I make clear that I'm not acting in my official capacity, but I can't suggest to some neighbor that they donate to X candidate.
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by malchior »

In actual AOC news - centrist Democrat's band together to attempt to block her from a committee seat.

Progressive meltdown incoming. This could very well start a war between the tenuous Progressive/Centrist Democratic wings.
Ocasio-Cortez was expected to cruise comfortably to the position. She was the first to raise her hand for the seat, and she won the backing of dean of the New York delegation Rep. Jerry Nadler. But last week, as Politico reported, Long Islander Kathleen Rice made an out-of-nowhere, last-second bid for the seat, interrupting the process. Rep. Rice is a backbencher from the party’s right flank who, in 2018, refused to support Nancy Pelosi for Speaker. Without the support of Nadler, and with the famous opposition of Steering Committee leader Pelosi, Rice’s attempt didn’t seem to be serious.

But in a surprise, last-second Steering Committee meeting on exclusive committee assignments Thursday, which was scheduled at 10 p.m. the night before, centrist Democrats put on a show of support for Rice and against AOC, in what looks to have been a process-defying attempt to keep AOC out of the seat. Fellow New York Rep. Hakeem Jeffries came out in support of Rice, contra Nadler, as did Reps. Anna Eshoo (D-CA), Diana DeGette (D-CO), and Stephanie Murphy (D-FL).

Most vocal in his opposition to Ocasio-Cortez’s candidacy was Texas’s Henry Cuellar, the caucus’s most conservative member. After Ocasio-Cortez was nominated and seconded, Cuellar opposed, commenting: “I’m taking into account who pays their dues and who doesn’t work against other members whether in primaries or in other contexts,” according to a source with knowledge of the meeting. After Rep. Eric Swalwell (D-CA) called for a vote on the two candidates came an unusual outcome: Rice crushed AOC 46-13.

A similar situation existed with the Energy and Commerce Committee seat vacated by incoming New Mexico Sen. Ben Ray Lujan. That seat was expected to go to progressive Texan Sylvia Garcia, but was contested by her moderate colleague from Texas, Lizzie Fletcher. Garcia, the other priority for progressives in Energy and Commerce, was left off the slate without even a vote. Fletcher, who has a troubling track record on unions, got endorsed by Pelosi. The Texas AFL-CIO famously came out against Fletcher’s candidacy for Congress, and declined to endorse her even against a Republican incumbent.

The result is both a resounding and surprising defeat for progressives, who just days ago had no reason to believe both Ocasio-Cortez and Garcia would be left off the committee, or even that this would be settled this week.
Last edited by malchior on Fri Dec 18, 2020 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

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malchior wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 6:36 pm In actual AOC news - centrist Democrat's band together to attempt to block her from a committee seat.

Progressive meltdown incoming.
Ocasio-Cortez was expected to cruise comfortably to the position. She was the first to raise her hand for the seat, and she won the backing of dean of the New York delegation Rep. Jerry Nadler. But last week, as Politico reported, Long Islander Kathleen Rice made an out-of-nowhere, last-second bid for the seat, interrupting the process. Rep. Rice is a backbencher from the party’s right flank who, in 2018, refused to support Nancy Pelosi for Speaker. Without the support of Nadler, and with the famous opposition of Steering Committee leader Pelosi, Rice’s attempt didn’t seem to be serious.

But in a surprise, last-second Steering Committee meeting on exclusive committee assignments Thursday, which was scheduled at 10 p.m. the night before, centrist Democrats put on a show of support for Rice and against AOC, in what looks to have been a process-defying attempt to keep AOC out of the seat. Fellow New York Rep. Hakeem Jeffries came out in support of Rice, contra Nadler, as did Reps. Anna Eshoo (D-CA), Diana DeGette (D-CO), and Stephanie Murphy (D-FL).

Most vocal in his opposition to Ocasio-Cortez’s candidacy was Texas’s Henry Cuellar, the caucus’s most conservative member. After Ocasio-Cortez was nominated and seconded, Cuellar opposed, commenting: “I’m taking into account who pays their dues and who doesn’t work against other members whether in primaries or in other contexts,” according to a source with knowledge of the meeting. After Rep. Eric Swalwell (D-CA) called for a vote on the two candidates came an unusual outcome: Rice crushed AOC 46-13.

A similar situation existed with the Energy and Commerce Committee seat vacated by incoming New Mexico Sen. Ben Ray Lujan. That seat was expected to go to progressive Texan Sylvia Garcia, but was contested by her moderate colleague from Texas, Lizzie Fletcher. Garcia, the other priority for progressives in Energy and Commerce, was left off the slate without even a vote. Fletcher, who has a troubling track record on unions, got endorsed by Pelosi. The Texas AFL-CIO famously came out against Fletcher’s candidacy for Congress, and declined to endorse her even against a Republican incumbent.

The result is both a resounding and surprising defeat for progressives, who just days ago had no reason to believe both Ocasio-Cortez and Garcia would be left off the committee, or even that this would be settled this week.
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

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I'm not even a fan of hers but I see this as unnecessary risk. The Democrats have an extremely fragile coalition and these out of touch fuckers are sabotaging areas where there is legitimate enthusiasm. I could see maybe kiboshing one of them but to cut out prominent progressive voices might end up backfiring.
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

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Yeah, no good is going to come of this. They're setting up lines in the sand and making it very clear the older, conservative (D) members are still in charge thank you very much. Its these types of visible cracks that will be exploited early and often.
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

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Smoove_B wrote:Yeah, no good is going to come of this. They're setting up lines in the sand and making it very clear the older, conservative (D) members are still in charge thank you very much. Its these types of visible cracks that will be exploited early and often.
Fuck that. I'm not too keen on going back to the status quo mentality of dealing with problems in our country.
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

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Smoove_B wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:00 pmThey're setting up lines in the sand and making it very clear the older, conservative (D) members are still in charge thank you very much.
I'm not sure that's it. Rice did not support Pelosi for Speaker, and Pelosi did not support Rice for this committee. And yet AOC was absolutely blown out - 46 -13. :shock:

That's not a sign that the older Democrats are still in charge. That's a sign that AOC is incredibly unpopular in her own party. Like, fantastically so.
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

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Little Raven wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:53 pm
Smoove_B wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:00 pmThey're setting up lines in the sand and making it very clear the older, conservative (D) members are still in charge thank you very much.
I'm not sure that's it. Rice did not support Pelosi for Speaker, and Pelosi did not support Rice for this committee. And yet AOC was absolutely blown out - 46 -13. :shock:

That's not a sign that the older Democrats are still in charge. That's a sign that AOC is incredibly unpopular in her own party. Like, fantastically so.
And those people she is unpopular with who would have a say over committee positions are...

They also they cut the legs out from Garcia and put someone in a committee who has fundamental problems with the *mainstream* base e.g. the Unions. This was obviously a shot at the progressives by the old guard. AOC in particular was clear to go until one of the most Conservative Democrats spoke out and arranged this procedural ambush.
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

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malchior wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:23 amAnd those people she is unpopular with who would have a say over committee positions are...
Not Pelosi. Or at least, she's not MORE unpopular with Pelosi than Rice is. Rice has defied Pelosi in ways even AOC never has.

Which probably means that AOC is right when she says that Pelosi is as liberal as it gets in the House, and that if she's replaced, whoever replaces her will move right.
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

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Just a reminder that Pelosi is pretty liberal.

"More liberal than 87% of Democrats in the 116th House"

https://voteview.com/person/15448/nancy-pelosi

(not a perfect measure, of course, as it only looks at votes, but she's not conservative or centrist the way some on the far left may sometimes claim)
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

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I don't think it is a question of "liberalness". I don't think that AOC would say Pelosi isn't liberal for instance. What a lot of the progressives see in Pelosi is someone who has lost their way in the Washington machine. An important political axis to consider here beyond "left/right" is "populist/establishment". That is what we just saw. The committee positions are literally a foot in the door in actual power in Congress and the establishment Dems are trying to put down a progressive revolution by stamping it out hard instead of trying to bring them in from the cold. It is amazingly short-sighted and very well might blow up in all our faces.
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

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What I've seen is both sides (be it "progressives" vs "centrists", "establishment" vs "populists", "tastes great" vs "less filling") tearing the coalition apart and trading accusations since the election ended.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - a pox on both of them if they can't two sides can't keep it together with the fate of our country at stake.
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Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

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Politics has two parts: convincing the voters and convincing other politicians. AOC does not play well with other politicians, and it means her effectiveness will be limited until she can convince them to give her power. The people you constantly criticize are hard to make friends.

My former Chicago alderman basically inherited her job from THE Chicago machine, and was pretty effective at getting things done, doing the job, and being a decent person. She was never good at convincing voters, and voters replaced her with a dogmatic progressive firebrand who is incompetent at governing. The new alderman couldn’t even open her office without screwing up.
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

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People may not like the terms and phrases being thrown around but I think the vast majority of people would like better access to health care, a more equitable justice system, a better social safety net so the next pandemic doesn't lead to miles long food lines, and a planet not approaching the surface temperature of Venus.

The "old guard" had a long time to address all these issues. You can make the terminology more friendly to the conservative leaning voters and the experience of the older legislators isn't something to ignore. But the so called centrists need to get on the bandwagon or get consigned to irrelevance, especially as the younger generations start to exercise their political power at the voting booth while the Boomers finally die off. There needs to be some middle ground for people to come together.

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

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$iljanus wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:12 pm People may not like the terms and phrases being thrown around but I think the vast majority of people would like better access to health care, a more equitable justice system, a better social safety net so the next pandemic doesn't lead to miles long food lines, and a planet not approaching the surface temperature of Venus.

The "old guard" had a long time to address all these issues. You can make the terminology more friendly to the conservative leaning voters and the experience of the older legislators isn't something to ignore. But the so called centrists need to get on the bandwagon or get consigned to irrelevance, especially as the younger generations start to exercise their political power at the voting booth while the Boomers finally die off. There needs to be some middle ground for people to come together.
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

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$iljanus wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:12 pm People may not like the terms and phrases being thrown around but I think the vast majority of people would like better access to health care, a more equitable justice system, a better social safety net so the next pandemic doesn't lead to miles long food lines, and a planet not approaching the surface temperature of Venus.

The "old guard" had a long time to address all these issues. You can make the terminology more friendly to the conservative leaning voters and the experience of the older legislators isn't something to ignore. But the so called centrists need to get on the bandwagon or get consigned to irrelevance, especially as the younger generations start to exercise their political power at the voting booth while the Boomers finally die off. There needs to be some middle ground for people to come together.
The crazy part is every one of the things you listed has broad popular support *right now*. Maybe not in every detail but broad support overall in the broad strokes.
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

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$iljanus wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:12 pm People may not like the terms and phrases being thrown around but I think the vast majority of people would like better access to health care, a more equitable justice system, a better social safety net so the next pandemic doesn't lead to miles long food lines, and a planet not approaching the surface temperature of Venus.

The "old guard" had a long time to address all these issues. You can make the terminology more friendly to the conservative leaning voters and the experience of the older legislators isn't something to ignore. But the so called centrists need to get on the bandwagon or get consigned to irrelevance, especially as the younger generations start to exercise their political power at the voting booth while the Boomers finally die off. There needs to be some middle ground for people to come together.
It's easy to talk about making progress when you're not actually in power. Because progress is slow. But Democrats were actually pretty productive (at the cost of losing seats and control), relatively speaking, during the two years when they had congress and the presidency. But no one - neither old guard or new - is going to make any significant progress so long as obstructionist Republicans hold the power to stop it.
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

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I mean, when she's right...


GOP: “We can’t do $1200 checks. That’s irresponsible. Think of the deficit.”

Also GOP: “As part of a COVID deal we are allocating $1.4 billion to build a xenophobic campaign stunt wall that falls down in the wind even though we promised voters other countries would pay for it.”
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

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Go Dems! Squabble away the country.
Smoove_B wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:27 pm I mean, when she's right...


GOP: “We can’t do $1200 checks. That’s irresponsible. Think of the deficit.”

Also GOP: “As part of a COVID deal we are allocating $1.4 billion to build a xenophobic campaign stunt wall that falls down in the wind even though we promised voters other countries would pay for it.”
And when snappy tweets are enshrined in law she'll be doing her job!
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

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LawBeefaroni wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:59 pm Go Dems! Squabble away the country.
Smoove_B wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:27 pm I mean, when she's right...


GOP: “We can’t do $1200 checks. That’s irresponsible. Think of the deficit.”

Also GOP: “As part of a COVID deal we are allocating $1.4 billion to build a xenophobic campaign stunt wall that falls down in the wind even though we promised voters other countries would pay for it.”
And when snappy tweets are enshrined in law she'll be doing her job!
She does her job well. She is constantly prepared, helps her constituents, and isn't constantly lobbying for money. We should all be so lucky (I do like my rep though, he - Jared Huffman - is very, very strong with regards to environmental issues and Bay Area advocacy.
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

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Pyperkub wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:07 pm and isn't constantly lobbying for money.
Probably because she's a celebrity that can raise tons of money without much effort - at $18.9 million, she raised the sixth highest total out of any Representative in the House in 2020.
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

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Since Trump was able to divert other money, like military budget, to The Wall, won't Biden be able to divert that $1.4B to something more useful come Jan 20?
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

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Max Peck wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 6:01 am Since Trump was able to divert other money, like military budget, to The Wall, won't Biden be able to divert that $1.4B to something more useful come Jan 20?
He could though it seems likely he won't play those kinds of games.
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

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Defiant wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:17 am
Pyperkub wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:07 pm and isn't constantly lobbying for money.
Probably because she's a celebrity that can raise tons of money without much effort - at $18.9 million, she raised the sixth highest total out of any Representative in the House in 2020.
Should we be upset that someone wanting to upset the entrenched political mentality who works to be relatable to everyday citizens is all it takes to make them a "celebrity" ... ? I appreciate that there are a few people with passion in politics. Most of them just have agendas and sponsors.
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

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Paingod wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:19 am
Should we be upset that someone wanting to upset the entrenched political mentality who works to be relatable to everyday citizens is all it takes to make them a "celebrity" ... ? I appreciate that there are a few people with passion in politics. Most of them just have agendas and sponsors.
I don't see her in as positive light as you do (my views on her are mixed - with some positive and some negative), but it explains *why* she doesn't need to lobby for money. Many other representatives don't have the luxury of being able to easily raise that kind of money and the freedom it brings.

(Although one wonders if she needs to raise that much money given that neither her primary nor general election were at all competitive)
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by malchior »

Defiant wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:13 am
Paingod wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:19 am
Should we be upset that someone wanting to upset the entrenched political mentality who works to be relatable to everyday citizens is all it takes to make them a "celebrity" ... ? I appreciate that there are a few people with passion in politics. Most of them just have agendas and sponsors.
I don't see her in as positive light as you do (my views on her are mixed - with some positive and some negative), but it explains *why* she doesn't need to lobby for money. Many other representatives don't have the luxury of being able to easily raise that kind of money and the freedom it brings.

(Although one wonders if she needs to raise that much money given that neither her primary nor general election were at all competitive)
She is unfortunately starting to play the game. The real power in American politics comes along with the ability to fundraise.
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

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Pyperkub wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:07 pm

She does her job well. She is constantly prepared, helps her constituents, and isn't constantly lobbying for money. We should all be so lucky (I do like my rep though, he - Jared Huffman - is very, very strong with regards to environmental issues and Bay Area advocacy.
How does she help her constituents if she not making laws on their behalf? I get the going the extra mile for individual cases but that's not her primary job. And she isn't constantly on fundraising tours because, like Defiant said, the money pours in. She can raise $1M by playing Among Us for an hour.

I'm not saying she can't be a great politician. In fact, she's on the path. But she's more bark than bite at this point and it seems like she's putting all her eggs in the progressive takeover basket. If it works, she's in great shape. If not, though, she's screwed and effectively locked out. Taking a less risky (less confrontational) approach would probably be better for her and her constituents, and ultimately the country. I see having her at the table with he benefit of a bit more experience to be a good thing.
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

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Quote Tweet
John Bresnahan
@bresreports

.@AOC to me on whether she will challenge @SenSchumer in ‘22 (no decision yet but not ruling it out): “I’m a no bullshit kind of person. I’m not playing coy or anything like that.”
@PunchbowlNews

Do it! One step closer to #GamerInTheWH.
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

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LawBeefaroni wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:33 am
Pyperkub wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:07 pm

She does her job well. She is constantly prepared, helps her constituents, and isn't constantly lobbying for money. We should all be so lucky (I do like my rep though, he - Jared Huffman - is very, very strong with regards to environmental issues and Bay Area advocacy.
How does she help her constituents if she not making laws on their behalf? I get the going the extra mile for individual cases but that's not her primary job. And she isn't constantly on fundraising tours because, like Defiant said, the money pours in. She can raise $1M by playing Among Us for an hour.

I'm not saying she can't be a great politician. In fact, she's on the path. But she's more bark than bite at this point and it seems like she's putting all her eggs in the progressive takeover basket. If it works, she's in great shape. If not, though, she's screwed and effectively locked out. Taking a less risky (less confrontational) approach would probably be better for her and her constituents, and ultimately the country. I see having her at the table with he benefit of a bit more experience to be a good thing.
Here's one way she's helping her constituents:
In late November, AOC’s campaign formally launched a virtual Homework Helpers Program following a seven week-long pilot that involved around 100 students from a community in the Bronx.

Initially, about 500 volunteer tutors signed up to take part.

The latest addition to the program involves educators and volunteers from across the nation, who will provide students living in AOC’s 14th congressional district with one hour of free virtual homework help per week.

A variety of languages are in high demand. Spanish, Bangla, Urdu, Mandarin, Cantonese, Korean, French, and Kru are just some of the languages spoken in her district.

According to Team AOC, volunteers are supported and trained by experienced educators. Amid recent additional school closures, her team had an initial goal of serving 1,000 students for the 2020-2021 school year.

They got way more than that.

“Our Homework Helpers program is off to a roaring start! I can’t thank you all enough.

Our call for volunteer tutors to help families w/ remote learning yielded *11,000* volunteers!
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

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AOC hints at running against Schumer in 2022.
Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Monday wouldn’t rule out challenging U.S. Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) in a primary battle for his seat.

“I’m still very much in a place where I’m trying to decide what is the most effective thing I can do,” Ocasio-Cortez (D-Queens, Bronx) told Punchbowl News.

The firebrand progressive insisted that she isn’t just blowing smoke about a titanic challenge to the Senate minority leader in 2022.

“I’m a no bulls--t kind of person. I’m not playing coy or anything like that,” Ocasio-Cortez said.

Ocasio-Cortez is a social media powerhouse and a fund-raising juggernaut. But most insiders believe she would face formidable odds taking on Schumer, a legendary force in New York politics, who, depending on the results of Georgia runoff elections Tuesday, could displace Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.).
This kind of makes sense, given the type of politician AOC is. She can't do normal politician stuff, at least not while maintaining her celebrity status. She needs to keep making headlines, and taking out Schumer would be a great way to do it.
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Jaymann
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by Jaymann »

AOC reams the GOP a new one:

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Kraken
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by Kraken »

She speaks truth...as usual.
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LawBeefaroni
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Kraken wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:43 pm She speaks truth...as usual.
Truth, yes, but nothing new. It's like the Cliff's Notes of OO R&P.
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"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

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Jaymann
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by Jaymann »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:15 pm
Kraken wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:43 pm She speaks truth...as usual.
Truth, yes, but nothing new. It's like the Cliff's Notes of OO R&P.
Well she is a gamer... :ninja:
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Alefroth
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by Alefroth »

Pretty sure she's in my guild.
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