White people are White

[Isgrimnur]

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/equal-writes/

[Little Raven]

Nice work, Isgrimnur. The sequels just aren't the same without you.

[coopasonic]

dafuq? That can't be real, can it?

Remember, we live in a world where our President-Elect said this last year:
“We should challenge students in these schools,” Mr. Biden said. “We have this notion that somehow if you’re poor, you cannot do it. Poor kids are just as bright and just as talented as white kids.”

I hope that image isn't form 2020, but it wouldn't totally shock me.

[Isgrimnur]

Nice work, Isgrimnur. The sequels just aren't the same without you.

I should read them at some point.

[malchior]

I used to think it was problematic until I understood that homogenized American privilege has essentially evolved to be based almost primarily on skin color and less on shared traditions and cultures. There are exceptions - Jewish people as an example, but the old Italian/Irish stuff has mostly melted away with time but black/brown discrimination has not.

I'm guessing that is dependent on where you live. Maybe in the NE, being brown still excludes you from joining the ranks of the privileged, but in large parts of the SW, brown is the default - and so are the powers that be.

A majority of the United States is still primarily white. Of course there are exceptions but the power structure in the United States is based primarily on white skin for now. That that power structure is at risk is part of why we are in the middle of a society-wide political nightmare that unfortunately is presently killing black and brown people who probably don't care about this regionalized difference.

Of course, the other way to look at that is that in the SW, Hispanics have simple become "white," but that brings us back to the problem ND is bringing up. If "white" just means "has power," then it isn't really a racial thing at all.

I get it but at the end of the day wealth is concentrated in white hands, and the Corporate world and Federal Government are predominantly white-majority spaces. And the present threat is white minority rule in the future. We have a lot of work to do to avoid the consequences of that reality. In that spirit, the 'big picture' marginalization issue is an important distinction for sure but addressing it needs to be part of the solutioning. In my mind, we still need to convince/influence the current situation as a problem to a lot of folks. That shifted heavily this year after George Floyd but it still needs to continue.

[Little Raven]

A majority of the United States is still primarily white.

But I think the point that Defiant is making is that the US will always be primarily "white," because we will constantly shift the definition of "white" to make sure that is true. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's what is happening with Hispanics right now, which is why Republicans are suddenly starting to make significant inroads into that demographic.

Back when English Protestants were enough of a majority to retain control, Irish Catholics weren't white. Then there weren't enough English Protestants around anymore to pull that off, so Irish Catholics became white. Same story with the Italians, the Japanese, the Koreans. And at least in the SW, the exact same thing is happening with the Hispanics, or at least, significant parts of the Hispanic population. (Hispanics being hardly a monolith.) Frankly, it's a whole lot easier to simply invite a new demographic into the "white" group than it is to set up and maintain minority control. More effective, too.

[noxiousdog]

American has a culture that raises white people and white culture above other people's culture and has a culture that assumes that white people are smart, knowledgeable, good looking, and again the default. You're a Black woman with dreadlocks. All of a sudden your hair isn't 'professional' ie white. Americans have discounted what marginalized people have done "LeBron should just dribble", 'Black people should solve Black on Black crime' "Police should target Black people because they are more likely to be criminals (the reality is that white people get away with a lot more crime than Black people do as a percentage of population), and so on. We've heard all of this in 2020.

I don't know how race is perceived in other countries so I can't speak to that (which I say in the OP).

So, American-white is really what we are talking about? I just want to make sure we are using the same context for the discussion.

Black/Latino cultures/Asian cultures and values are very different from what's described as "American". Having lived it, I can assure you that the communities are not the same.

As Blackhawk said, we can't define "American." I can assure you that Guthrie, Oklahoma is as different from mainstream white people TV as Compton.

The values, the practices, the beliefs, what's liked and disliked is not what you may think of as American. We are bombarded in the US with views of white America, to the point where folks in this thread don't understand what else is out there. Mexican culture is so awesome, but we never see it except in fictional TV. No wonder people are dismayed by Mexicans coming to the US, they have no clue as to how beautiful their culture is, and that's just one country and one culture. When you are watching particularly the News, always keep in mind that all they care about is eyeballs because eyeballs watch ads and ads is how those channels exist. A story about a Mexican man raping a white woman will get way more eyeballs then how some Mexicans feed their families in hard times by selling stuff people want on the street. So they go with that. I haven't watched the News in over 30 years because of this bias, I get my information from places like the New York Times, the Atlantic and other venues where they care about journalism instead of racism.

You say, "we are bombarded in the US with view of white America." Like what? What is uniquely white?

I can't define "white" culture - American or otherwise. Is it Liberals or Conservatives? Rednecks or Hipsters? Christians or aethists? Hollywood or Wallstreet? Is it the NFL or the PGA? Is it Tchaikovsky or Garth Brooks? Is it biscuits and gravy or Beef Wellington?

I guarantee when you're having this conversation with mainstream America, they aren't going to understand either.

One of the things that I really appreciate in race discussions over the last few years is understanding that being white means facing significantly less discrimination and on the whole means you've got a good chance of having multi-generational family support. I'm well aware these things exist and why it isn't as common in Black and Latino communities.

While there clearly white supremacists out there, I don't think passive racism is any more common among whites than it is amongst other races. So, trying to lump this into a white race memory is not going to work. If there's something telling whites to keep the other races down, it's not working. Asians, in fact, have the highest household wealth in the US even allowing for the fact they have the highest income inequality (primarily due to immigration).

And to be clear, I completely believe the issues we are discussing are real and are rooted and perpetuated in racism by powerful white people in power throughout history (including the 21st century). I just don't think trying to stereotype it now to "white people in America in 2020 " is going to work.

[noxiousdog]

I get it but at the end of the day wealth is concentrated in white hands, and the Corporate world and Federal Government are predominantly white-majority spaces. And the present threat is white minority rule in the future. We have a lot of work to do to avoid the consequences of that reality. In that spirit, the 'big picture' marginalization issue is an important distinction for sure but addressing it needs to be part of the solutioning. In my mind, we still need to convince/influence the current situation as a problem to a lot of folks. That shifted heavily this year after George Floyd but it still needs to continue.

With a country that is 60%-80% white (depending on Hispanic/Latino breakdown which is a much more complicated discussion), it's not going to change any more than it's changed in Europe or Canada.

[Lorini]

"White" is an ambiguous term - at various points in history, Native Americans, Jews, Arabs, Indians and/or Hispanics have been considered "white", while at other times, they've been considered "not white".

But then, the concept of color/race isn't a scientific one, it's a social one, so it's not too surprising it's inconsistently used.

I understand what you are saying. I feel you are cutting the wording too thin. When Black people are 7% of the LA population and get pulled over 45% of the time, and white people who are 40% of the population (sure there could be 1k or so off but the point is still there) and get pulled over 5% of the time, being white means something.

[Smoove_B]

With a country that is 60%-80% white (depending on Hispanic/Latino breakdown which is a much more complicated discussion), it's not going to change any more than it's changed in Europe or Canada.

The models/projections I've seen suggest that "white" will no longer be the majority (i.e. below 50%) in American demographics sometime between 2040 and 2050. I am in the camp that believes as we march closer to that reality, the chaos will continue as more and more people realize/recognize/accept that the narrative of our story so far (200+ years) has been predominantly driven by white men.

[Little Raven]

The models/projections I've seen suggest that "white" will no longer be the majority (i.e. below 50%) in American demographics sometime between 2040 and 2050.

Assuming, of course, that we don't change the definition of "white" in the next 30 years.

But historically, we change that definition all the time, so I'm not sure why we would expect to suddenly lock it down over the next few decades.

[malchior]

With a country that is 60%-80% white (depending on Hispanic/Latino breakdown which is a much more complicated discussion), it's not going to change any more than it's changed in Europe or Canada.

The models/projections I've seen suggest that "white" will no longer be the majority (i.e. below 50%) in American demographics sometime between 2040 and 2050. I am in the camp that believes as we march closer to that reality, the chaos will continue as more and more people realize/recognize/accept that the narrative of our story so far (200+ years) has been predominantly driven by white men.

Exactly but this is also what I'm talking about about convincing people it is even happening. People don't see that the demographics are changing relatively quickly. And like all things in this country we're intentionally undercounting them because that serves that mission to marginalize them.

[noxiousdog]

With a country that is 60%-80% white (depending on Hispanic/Latino breakdown which is a much more complicated discussion), it's not going to change any more than it's changed in Europe or Canada.

The models/projections I've seen suggest that "white" will no longer be the majority (i.e. below 50%) in American demographics sometime between 2040 and 2050. I am in the camp that believes as we march closer to that reality, the chaos will continue as more and more people realize/recognize/accept that the narrative of our story so far (200+ years) has been predominantly driven by white men.

Those projections are based on all latinos/hispanics identifying as latino/hispanic.

Of course the narrative has been driven by white men. That's the nature of history and that's why we have historians. It's why books like 1491, movements like BLM, and these conversations are important.

[malchior]

With a country that is 60%-80% white (depending on Hispanic/Latino breakdown which is a much more complicated discussion), it's not going to change any more than it's changed in Europe or Canada.

The models/projections I've seen suggest that "white" will no longer be the majority (i.e. below 50%) in American demographics sometime between 2040 and 2050. I am in the camp that believes as we march closer to that reality, the chaos will continue as more and more people realize/recognize/accept that the narrative of our story so far (200+ years) has been predominantly driven by white men.

Those projections are based on all latinos/hispanics identifying as latino/hispanic.

Sure but there is a bit of an assumption there that they will not remain a distinct ethnogroup in this nation with the related wealth, educational, and vocational impacts we see now. I think it'll get better in bigger firms but society-wide...I have my doubts especially with increasing political backlash in the cards.

[noxiousdog]

"White" is an ambiguous term - at various points in history, Native Americans, Jews, Arabs, Indians and/or Hispanics have been considered "white", while at other times, they've been considered "not white".

But then, the concept of color/race isn't a scientific one, it's a social one, so it's not too surprising it's inconsistently used.

I understand what you are saying. I feel you are cutting the wording too thin. When Black people are 7% of the LA population and get pulled over 45% of the time, and white people who are 40% of the population (sure there could be 1k or so off but the point is still there) and get pulled over 5% of the time, being white means something.

The data certainly indicates something is going on and it's absolutely indicates there is some form of systemic racism. Even more troubling are the search rates which indicate minorities are searched more but are less likely to have contraband.

However, it seems unlikely that cops can tell someone's race prior to pulling them over especially when latinos are targeted at high rates as well.

[malchior]

However, it seems unlikely that cops can tell someone's race prior to pulling them over especially when latinos are targeted at high rates as well.

They can. Cops are especially good at being racists or more accurately enforcing the social order that is racist. They know neighborhoods, names, etc. Are you implying that this is some natural phenomena?

[Holman]

However, it seems unlikely that cops can tell someone's race prior to pulling them over especially when latinos are targeted at high rates as well.

They very often can. And if nothing else, they know what neighborhood they're driving in.

I've had conversations with Black co-workers my age who describe having been pulled over twenty or thirty times in their lives, while I've been pulled over twice. And I assure you that these are not people likely to be driving recklessly or wildly (they're academics and librarians, for heaven's sake).

[noxiousdog]

Sure but there is a bit of an assumption there that they will not remain a distinct ethnogroup in this nation with the related wealth, educational, and vocational impacts we see now. I think it'll get better in bigger firms but society-wide...I have my doubts especially with increasing political backlash in the cards.

I think being in the northeast it might influence your thinking.

San Antonio is a city of a million people w/ 60% latino and while you can definitely see the influence, you'd be hard pressed to identify it as significantly different than any other big city in America.

Houston is 40% hispanic and while there is absolutely an urban poor issue, I don't see it distinctly related to latino ethnicity.

That being said, as Smoove indicated there is definitely history that needs retaught. 50% of the folks that died at the Alamo were Tejano. I was glad to see that taught on the Alamo grounds. But I suspect it will be a while before I see it in a public school textbook.

[noxiousdog]

However, it seems unlikely that cops can tell someone's race prior to pulling them over especially when latinos are targeted at high rates as well.

They very often can. And if nothing else, they know what neighborhood they're driving in.

I've had conversations with Black co-workers my age who describe having been pulled over twenty or thirty times in their lives, while I've been pulled over twice. And I assure you that these are not people likely to be driving recklessly or wildly (they're academics and librarians, for heaven's sake).

That's not what I'm saying. Driving while black is absolutely a thing. I have a co-worker whose sons have been pulled over a collective 21 times in two years.

However, the LA data shows latinos are also pulled over at excessive rates which leads me to believe it's neighborhoods that are causing excessive policing and not necessarily race as the predominant factor.

[Defiant]

"White" is an ambiguous term - at various points in history, Native Americans, Jews, Arabs, Indians and/or Hispanics have been considered "white", while at other times, they've been considered "not white".

But then, the concept of color/race isn't a scientific one, it's a social one, so it's not too surprising it's inconsistently used.

I understand what you are saying. I feel you are cutting the wording too thin. When Black people are 7% of the LA population and get pulled over 45% of the time, and white people who are 40% of the population (sure there could be 1k or so off but the point is still there) and get pulled over 5% of the time, being white means something.

I'm not suggesting racism doesn't happen - it absolutely does. Just pointing out that people are in a gray area where at various points in the past, they've been part of the majority and other times they've been excluded from the majority, because those who define white kind of make it up as they go along so it's not consistent. Not exactly the same, but you might also consider black people who can pass as white or gay people who can pass as straight.

In other words, Some "White" people are not White.

[Lorini]

However, it seems unlikely that cops can tell someone's race prior to pulling them over especially when latinos are targeted at high rates as well.

They very often can. And if nothing else, they know what neighborhood they're driving in.

I've had conversations with Black co-workers my age who describe having been pulled over twenty or thirty times in their lives, while I've been pulled over twice. And I assure you that these are not people likely to be driving recklessly or wildly (they're academics and librarians, for heaven's sake).

That's not what I'm saying. Driving while black is absolutely a thing. I have a co-worker whose sons have been pulled over a collective 21 times in two years.

However, the LA data shows latinos are also pulled over at excessive rates which leads me to believe it's neighborhoods that are causing excessive policing and not necessarily race as the predominant factor.

My city, Santa Clarita, decided that there was too much drug traffic in the city and wanted the county Sheriff to do something about it (the Sheriff does the policing for the city).They went after 'drug traffickers' for nearly a year iirc. The Inspector General for the county found that 80% of the people pulled over coming down the 5 freeway (note that that freeway starts in Washington state) were Latino. So they had to stop the program because police bias was so obvious. Of course they know the occupants are Latino, they drive by them.

[Holman]

However, it seems unlikely that cops can tell someone's race prior to pulling them over especially when latinos are targeted at high rates as well.

They very often can. And if nothing else, they know what neighborhood they're driving in.

I've had conversations with Black co-workers my age who describe having been pulled over twenty or thirty times in their lives, while I've been pulled over twice. And I assure you that these are not people likely to be driving recklessly or wildly (they're academics and librarians, for heaven's sake).

That's not what I'm saying. Driving while black is absolutely a thing. I have a co-worker whose sons have been pulled over a collective 21 times in two years.

However, the LA data shows latinos are also pulled over at excessive rates which leads me to believe it's neighborhoods that are causing excessive policing and not necessarily race as the predominant factor.

Is it not the case that the white LA police have it in for Latinos as much (or almost) as Blacks?

Neighborhoods equal racial profiling in most cities, and I presume that's the case in LA as well.

[Zarathud]

The amount and definition of privilege and white changes over time. And stories are complex.

My wife’s family are Irish to the point of having a family member in exile for teaching the language. Another who was shot at by the Ulsterists. Her father and uncle were educated only because they became Catholic priests (who later left). They weren’t white enough as young men to have educational privilege without swearing vows. Her uncle had enough privilege by the 1960s to cover Chicago politics as the “token Irishman” for a Black newspaper. Helped that he marched with MLK. He wasn’t fully privileged white until he was a college professor.

My mother was part Chinese and part Polish so she looked native American during the 1960s. Her experience was an outcast “gook” during the Vietnam era. Then she was poor not-white enough, even into the 1990s when my wife was asked about her origin at my rural wedding. She will deny having any privilege, and will tell stories of her wheelchair bound best friend who couldn’t get a job until she moved to liberal California.

I work with wealthy white people and immigrants but there are social circles and WASP clients who will not have me. No one would think I look part Chinese, most think I’m part Jewish. Partly because I learned from being friends with the few Jews in my high school. I do well enough, but can’t keep up with those with stories of wealthier connections and interests. Or the suburban bar mitzvah scene. But by any measure I’m white and privileged, despite making many opportunities for myself while my brother failed to have them handed to him like he expected.

My kids learned Arabic and Japanese in an integrated public school in Chicago. We left a gentrifying Latino neighborhood to live in a more Guatemalan-Korean-Arabic neighborhood. They’re very aware about being “white” and “privileged” because they’ve been taught about it and live with and are friends with others who are different. If anything, they are hyper-aware of POC and gender norms. But we raised them that way and put them in a place it would be reinforced. Their status as Type I diabetics make them different even when they try to belong. What are they? We raised them in very different situations than where we grew up.

White and privilege are complicated. Much like black and underprivileged. There are many differences, and many are surprising until you ask. It’s complicated, and getting more so.

We have to watch out for creating new stereotyping to combat the old ones. And we’re bound to fail at it because we’re fallible humans who take convenient short-cuts in everything.

[noxiousdog]

Neighborhoods equal racial profiling in most cities, and I presume that's the case in LA as well.

Neighborhoods are disproportionately responsible for crime. It's a vicious circle.

Traffic stops aren't for writing failure to signal, it's to search for weapons and drugs. There's an excellent two part series on This American Life called "Cops see it differently" which dives into public and police perception. Some is aligned and some isn't.

But we are getting off track. I don't think anyone here is disputing systemic racism. I believe the point of the thread was to reach "white" people. We still haven't even defined who they are.

[Grifman]

But, how do you differentiate "white" culture from "American" culture?

Does America have a single unified culture that can be called American? We have a few shared traditions, yes. But most of what we call 'American culture' is regional at best, and even then only a fraction follows that culture.

And yet we want to distill this down to "white"? That seems problematic at best.

See this is one of the problems with calling something "white culture". Just go to Europe - there are very distinctive cultures from country to country. The UK is not France is not Germany is not Spain is not Italy. All of those countries have rather distinctive cultures and traditions. A Englishman is not an Italian? Or all of those "white cultures". Then what does it mean to call a culture a "white culture"? The term is far to broad and indistinct when you examine different "white" nations (if I can use that term).

[Grifman]

Just one small example. My ex-husband lives with me and is white (long story). We went to Popeyes to get a chicken sandwich. He had no clue why there was a pickle in the sandwich. I grew up with chicken sandwiches with pickles, if they want to market the chicken sandwich to Black people they damn well better have a pickle in it!

Well, to be fair, they did this to compete with ChikFila and they have pickles on their sandwiches so I could be purely competition. Or maybe it just tastes good

[Holman]

Neighborhoods equal racial profiling in most cities, and I presume that's the case in LA as well.

Neighborhoods are disproportionately responsible for crime. It's a vicious circle.

Neighborhoods are also disproportionately policed. I taught for years at a rich prep school where kids were routinely carrying drugs that would get them arrested and punished in a different neighborhood. The difference is that cops didn't look twice at my students, let alone search their cars.

Traffic stops aren't for writing failure to signal, it's to search for weapons and drugs. There's an excellent two part series on This American Life called "Cops see it differently" which dives into public and police perception. Some is aligned and some isn't.

See above.

[hitbyambulance]

I believe the point of the thread was to reach "white" people. We still haven't even defined who they are.

[noxiousdog]

Neighborhoods equal racial profiling in most cities, and I presume that's the case in LA as well.

Neighborhoods are disproportionately responsible for crime. It's a vicious circle.

Neighborhoods are also disproportionately policed. I taught for years at a rich prep school where kids were routinely carrying drugs that would get them arrested and punished in a different neighborhood. The difference is that cops didn't look twice at my students, let alone search their cars.

Traffic stops aren't for writing failure to signal, it's to search for weapons and drugs. There's an excellent two part series on This American Life called "Cops see it differently" which dives into public and police perception. Some is aligned and some isn't.

See above.

Did you just ignore my post? Nobody is disputing systemic racism. Those neighborhood citizens undoubtedly have their rights violated by police and are racially targeted.

However, they also have the most crime. I highly doubt have a single cop car visible every couple weeks like in my neighborhood would reduce the crime rate.

[Isgrimnur]

I believe the point of the thread was to reach "white" people. We still haven't even defined who they are.

I'm going to tell my kids this was the novelization of the Game of Thrones series.

[YellowKing]

I don't mean to detract from the serious subject matter of this thread, but I have to relate this story about assumed racism that I still laugh about to this day.

Early at my current job my boss asked me and a new co-worker to ride over with him to the main campus to pick up some boxes. We didn't really know this new guy, but somehow we got on the subject of Star Wars. We were all big Star Wars nerds and The Force Awakens was about to come out, so the ride over wound up being a huge geek fest of Star Wars talk.

As we're pulling into the parking lot, this African-American guy walks by and my new co-worker exclaims, "Speaking of Star Wars, there's Lando!"

My boss looks at me, I look at my boss, and we both just sit there in awkward silence. My co-worker, sensing the tension, says, "What's wrong?" My boss says, "Uhh....I don't know how to put this but that was a bit racist wasn't it?"

Co-worker: "What was racist?"

Boss: "I mean we're talking Star Wars and the first black guy you see you shout "Speaking of Star Wars, there's Lando! It just came off kind of racist, dude."

I'm sitting there silently dying because this is SUPER awkward and now I'm getting the feeling that the new guy is a racist asshole and I'm going to be witness to him getting off on the wrong foot with the boss man. Then he explained himself:

Turns out the black guy was *actually* named Lando (short for Orlando), and my co-worker was good friends with him from a previous job. He's also a big Star Wars fan.

The relief on my boss's face still cracks me up. The co-worker became one of my best friends over the years, and I still give him shit about that day and how he almost got fired for being a racist prick. P.S. I also eventually got to meet Lando, and it's totally true - that's his name, he's a Star Wars fan, and also one of the nicest guys on the planet.

[Blackhawk]

But, how do you differentiate "white" culture from "American" culture?

Does America have a single unified culture that can be called American? We have a few shared traditions, yes. But most of what we call 'American culture' is regional at best, and even then only a fraction follows that culture.

And yet we want to distill this down to "white"? That seems problematic at best.

See this is one of the problems with calling something "white culture". Just go to Europe - there are very distinctive cultures from country to country. The UK is not France is not Germany is not Spain is not Italy. All of those countries have rather distinctive cultures and traditions. A Englishman is not an Italian? Or all of those "white cultures". Then what does it mean to call a culture a "white culture"? The term is far to broad and indistinct when you examine different "white" nations (if I can use that term).

It's one of those semantic confusions, brought about by the breadth of the word 'culture.' When the dialogue about white culture began, it was one thing that really threw me off and delayed my starting to get a *handle on the issues. Even in the US there is no single culture among white people. I've lived in California and I've lived in Indiana, and the culture of the white people in those places have are night-and-day, and if I were go to to Minnesota, New York, or Louisiana I'd find more completely different white cultures. But what's being discussed exists, and we don't really have a better term for it. "The Caucasian element of western society"? "White societal norms"? "White universalism"? I suppose "White culture" is as good as anything, but it will take explaining what is meant by the term for a while for people to understand it.


*Not that I feel like I understand now. Discussions like this are a lot of work to read, as I still struggle through every paragraph to make sure I'm not misunderstanding some fine point. Which I still usually do.

[The Meal]

BH, I think you really hit the crux of it. If the word "culture" was broken into multiple words of "taxonomic ranks" (i.e., kingdom, phylum or division, class, order, family, genus, species) then it'd be easier to grasp that there's a much more significant difference between race/ethnicity than there is based on intra-country location. But to say "white folks in Kansas are different than white folks in NYC," so we can't really compare the differences between African-Americans and Caucasians is pretty disingenuous.

[noxiousdog]

I'm still not seeing it.

Race is a construct. That's the whole basis of the fact that racism is bad. We are all homo sapiens.

Culture, however, is real and influences how we act toward each other. If there is no shared "white" culture -- or at least not one we recognize --, how do you tell "whites" as a whole they need to recognize a nebulous culture that they don't identify with? How do you further keep people from judging other cultures when there are plenty of characteristics that are objectively negative?

[Combustible Lemur]

I'm still not seeing it.

Race is a construct. That's the whole basis of the fact that racism is bad. We are all homo sapiens.

Culture, however, is real and influences how we act toward each other. If there is no shared "white" culture -- or at least not one we recognize --, how do you tell "whites" as a whole they need to recognize a nebulous culture that they don't identify with? How do you further keep people from judging other cultures when there are plenty of characteristics that are objectively negative?

Thats just the "i dont see color defense"

Western european colonial expanssion is a relatively unique form of culture that is distinct from others. Eastern asian cultures have distinct attributes more similar to south asian and pacific islander than to "greco/Roman descendent cultures. Middle eastern. Cultures are distinct. People in power have always politically used race as a good control issue creating centuries of ingrained biases that manifest as systemic and overt racism.
This isnt to say that other cultures aren't as racist as western decendant but that, as was said above, in the taxonomy of cultures Americans do have a recognizable culture with a geneology traced back through agressive expansion, common warfare, centuries of sectarian fighting that promoted the emigration of fundamentalist ideas to the new world, and micro culture supremacy
(geography driving smaller nations and more distinct cultures within the macro)

Hell yes its complex. But that doesnt mean white people aren't a thing. What will be interesting to see is what happens when generally conservative minority people start voting for conservative politics more and more. If white supremacy wasnt so explicit in republican governance they would find Way more support among many immigrant and scond generation communities. Ironically extreme liberal liberty and individualism is also a fairly European idea. See, china.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

[Defiant]

Race is a construct. That's the whole basis of the fact that racism is bad. We are all homo sapiens.

At the risk of venturing into sci-fi, racism would still be bad between different sentient species. It's just more ironic when we're all the same race.

[noxiousdog]

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but it's not irrelevant.

How do you convince people without a shared identity that they have a shared identity? How would you do it in a way that doesn't define someone by their race?

The white privilege conversation is essential. I think it starts breaking down when you go beyond that as the shared experience starts breaking down as well.

[coopasonic]

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but it's not irrelevant.

How do you convince people without a shared identity that they have a shared identity? How would you do it in a way that doesn't define someone by their race?

The white privilege conversation is essential. I think it starts breaking down when you go beyond that as the shared experience starts breaking down as well.

I'd say privilege is essentially white culture in America. Yes, there are lots of sub-groups to the privileged white, but they share that one thing. Is that enough, to accept that privilege exists and I guess agree that it is unwarranted? Not enough to be done with it, but enough to start the process of fixing it.

As long as the common folk are busy hating each other over mostly made up or manufactured concerns they won't have time to hate those they should really be focused on.

[Combustible Lemur]

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but it's not irrelevant.

How do you convince people without a shared identity that they have a shared identity? How would you do it in a way that doesn't define someone by their race?

The white privilege conversation is essential. I think it starts breaking down when you go beyond that as the shared experience starts breaking down as well.

Thats a much better question. Results oriented.
Humans have much more in common than they don't. So much conflict rises when either they cant see it, or specific interests intentionally use it to exploit opportunities.

Personally
I think it, at its core an economic question. Tribal instincts based on resource scarcity exploited by powerful people.
Automation and transhumanism is going to maybe change all of this.
Whats more important, that Alma is brown, or Steve has an electronic torso and talks to his laptop through the wifi?

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[Archinerd]

I don't mean to detract from the serious subject matter of this thread, but I have to relate this story about assumed racism that I still laugh about to this day.

I've got one too.

I grew up in a small town well outside of Chicago. It's now considered a suburb, but when I was growing up it was the middle of nowhere (our house was off a dirt road). It was also very, very white. Out of the 100ish kids in my grade, there were two (twin brother & sister) that had a latino last name, which was Blanco. Even they where "white".

Anyway, in Middle school we went on a field trip to some sort of nature center. It wasn't a big place, but there was one other school group there, a bus of kids from Chicago. And yes, they were all black. So all of us small town kids, and all of the Chicago kids sat in a little auditorium for a presentation about something nature related (wetland birds iirc). When it was over, the lights came up and the woman in charge of shepherding us all around tried to dimsiss us by school so we could get back on our buses in an orderly fashion.

She said something along these lines, "Can I have the white shool please stand up?"

Everyone stood up.

Then we all gave each other with confused looks. She then clarified, "Will the Edward White School please stand up?"

My classmates and I sat back down.