A federal grand jury indicted nine associates of the “Oath Keepers” militia on Friday for conspiring to storm the Capitol on Jan. 6 to prevent Congress from certifying President Joe Biden’s election victory, adding to a list of defendants with ties to the far-right anti-government group.
In a superseding indictment, the U.S. charged six people allegedly connected to Oath Keepers - Ohio residents Sandra Ruth Parker, 60, and her husband Bennie Alvin Parker, 70, Graydon Young, 54, of Florida, Kelly Meggs, 52, and his 59-year-old wife Connie Meggs, also of Florida, and Laura Steele, 52, of North Carolina.
The remaining three defendants - Thomas Caldwell, Jessica Watkins and Donovan Crowl - were previously indicted for conspiracy in January. In the latest version of the indictment, the government filed additional charges against Caldwell for tampering with evidence by deleting his Facebook posts.
According to one of the criminal complaints filed in the case, some of the defendants did not seem too concerned they would face criminal charges.
“I’ve been following FBI wanted list, seems they’re only interested in people who destroyed things. I wouldn’t worry about them coming after us,” Watkins told Bennie Parker, according to texts obtained by the FBI.
“I’m sure they’re not on us,” Bennie Parker replied.
I got a chuckle out of the fact that part of the evidence gathered by the FBI is the treason monkeys reassuring each other that the FBI isn't on to them.
"What? What?What?" -- The 14th Doctor
It's not enough to be a good player... you also have to play well. -- Siegbert Tarrasch
I'm probably stretching the topic here, but I think it's more appropriate to include in this thread than another. Why?
Parents in a neighboring community of mine used social media to threaten physical violence against public school officials over the current COVID teaching schedule.
"if (schools) don't open soon, it will be time for physical violence" against those keeping the schools closed.
If you told me this was something that was going to happen last year, I wouldn't have guessed it. I would have doubled down after 1/6 that no one could be this insane. I was wrong.
It's not political violence, but I'm confident the sentiment is connected. It's threatened violence against public officials (and apparently teachers) as well. This only reinforces my opinion that the people that participated in the 1/6 insurrection need to pay and pay dearly.
Smoove_B wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:55 pmThis only reinforces my opinion that the people that participated in the 1/6 insurrection need to pay and pay dearly.
Lessons must be learned, hands must be burned, fires should not be touched again.
Shame we're dealing with creatures made of ooze and apparent immunity to fire.
Black Lives Matter
2021-01-20: The first good night's sleep I had in 4 years.
Smoove_B wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:55 pmIt's not political violence, but I'm confident the sentiment is connected. It's threatened violence against public officials (and apparently teachers) as well. This only reinforces my opinion that the people that participated in the 1/6 insurrection need to pay and pay dearly.
FWIW I think it *is* political violence. They are saying that some representative of the government isn't doing what they want so they threatened violence. Maybe political intimidation if you don't want the hard edge on it but it is not too far afield.
Yeah, I mean *technically* it is, I guess it just felt so outside of what people might normally lump in with political violence i wasn't sure if I was polluting the well here. Regardless, I hope the residents that were saying these things online are treated accordingly. In fact, I hope the state AG drops in and makes examples of them all.
Smoove_B wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:55 pm
I'm probably stretching the topic here, but I think it's more appropriate to include in this thread than another. Why?
Parents in a neighboring community of mine used social media to threaten physical violence against public school officials over the current COVID teaching schedule.
"if (schools) don't open soon, it will be time for physical violence" against those keeping the schools closed.
If you told me this was something that was going to happen last year, I wouldn't have guessed it. I would have doubled down after 1/6 that no one could be this insane. I was wrong.
It's not political violence, but I'm confident the sentiment is connected. It's threatened violence against public officials (and apparently teachers) as well. This only reinforces my opinion that the people that participated in the 1/6 insurrection need to pay and pay dearly.
Given the correlation between those who are most vocal against measures to mitigate the virus and those who are most vocal in support of Florida Man I think this definitely belongs here. That is frightening and I hope there are charges that can be brought against those threatening violence.
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken
No charges for man that made violent threats against public school officials and teachers on social media.
The detective bureau followed up and made contact with him," Lamon said. "The guy said 'I'm not looking to cause problems for anybody, I was just venting and have no intention of being in Sparta or coming up to Sparta'," Lamon said. "The guy really has no ties to here, so it's not clear what his interest is up here other than the fact he's friends with somebody in the Facebook group."
...
The Sussex County Prosecutor's Office also was notified, and the Sparta School District is drafting a letter warning the man not to set foot on school property.
He should be sitting in cell right now and waiting to appear in front a judge to explain what he did.
Smoove_B wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:54 pmNo charges for man that made violent threats against public school officials and teachers on social media.
The detective bureau followed up and made contact with him," Lamon said. "The guy said 'I'm not looking to cause problems for anybody, I was just venting and have no intention of being in Sparta or coming up to Sparta'," Lamon said. "The guy really has no ties to here, so it's not clear what his interest is up here other than the fact he's friends with somebody in the Facebook group."
...
The Sussex County Prosecutor's Office also was notified, and the Sparta School District is drafting a letter warning the man not to set foot on school property.
He should be sitting in cell right now and waiting to appear in front a judge to explain what he did.
I think his explanation would be exactly what he gave to the detectives who investigated. Also, for what it’s worth, I think they made the right call here. Generalized statements without more and no pattern of conduct aren’t much to hang a prosecution on. It seems like the authorities took the statements seriously - as they should - investigated, and decided a stern warning was appropriate here. Unless there’s more to the story, I can’t disagree with that.
Just 'cause you feel it, doesn't mean it's there -- Radiohead
Do you believe me? Do you trust me? Do you like me? 😳
I'm not saying he should be jailed indefinitely, but I feel pretty strongly that a certified letter advising him to not come on school property is a joke. This was an opportunity to make it resoundingly clear that this type of behavior is not acceptable (making threats against public officials on social media) and instead all it gets is a finger-wag.
Smoove_B wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:09 pm
I'm not saying he should be jailed indefinitely, but I feel pretty strongly that a certified letter advising him to not come on school property is a joke. This was an opportunity to make it resoundingly clear that this type of behavior is not acceptable (making threats against public officials on social media) and instead all it gets is a finger-wag.
Free speech is still a thing and deciding whether or not it's a "true threat" plays into the analysis. Things like bluster and hyperbole, even if distasteful, are protected.
stessier wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:18 pmFree speech is still a thing and deciding whether or not it's a "true threat" plays into the analysis. Things like bluster and hyperbole, even if distasteful, are protected.
Under the imminent lawless action test, speech is not protected by the First Amendment if the speaker intends to incite a violation of the law that is both imminent and likely
I guess it'll be up to Constitutional scholars to debate "imminent and likely" then the next time some rando shoots up a meeting of public officials.
stessier wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:18 pmFree speech is still a thing and deciding whether or not it's a "true threat" plays into the analysis. Things like bluster and hyperbole, even if distasteful, are protected.
Under the imminent lawless action test, speech is not protected by the First Amendment if the speaker intends to incite a violation of the law that is both imminent and likely
I guess it'll be up to Constitutional scholars to debate "imminent and likely" then the next time some rando shoots up a meeting of public officials.
Or that multiple officials are constantly talking about how they are constantly receiving death threats. Fauci had to have private security for god's sake. Just part of the job now.
Edit: But this one was weird in the sense that this guy was not local in a real way. Luckily social media has turned a lot of folks into absolute loons who feel they can threaten violence with apparent impunity. And it turns out - they're right - they pretty much can!
stessier wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:18 pmFree speech is still a thing and deciding whether or not it's a "true threat" plays into the analysis. Things like bluster and hyperbole, even if distasteful, are protected.
Under the imminent lawless action test, speech is not protected by the First Amendment if the speaker intends to incite a violation of the law that is both imminent and likely
I guess it'll be up to Constitutional scholars to debate "imminent and likely" then the next time some rando shoots up a meeting of public officials.
That's where the cops came in and apparently made the determination that it wasn't imminent or likely.
malchior wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:31 pm
Edit: But this one was weird in the sense that this guy was not local in a real way. Luckily social media has turned a lot of folks into absolute loons who feel they can threaten violence with apparent impunity. And it turns out - they're right - they pretty much can!
They've always been there - you can just hear them now. Watts v United States was where Watts said
They always holler at us to get an education. And now I have already received my draft classification as 1-A and I have got to report for my physical this Monday coming. I am not going. If they ever make me carry a rifle the first man I want to get in my sights is L.B.J. . . .They are not going to make me kill my black brothers.
and it was held that political hyperbole is not a true threat.
malchior wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:31 pmEdit: But this one was weird in the sense that this guy was not local in a real way. Luckily social media has turned a lot of folks into absolute loons who feel they can threaten violence with apparent impunity. And it turns out - they're right - they pretty much can!
"Your honor, my client is a resident of Florida. As you're well aware, this means he couldn't have incited a mob to violence in Washington D.C. - he doesn't live there!"
I refuse to believe the only way this guy could have been prosecuted was if he was caught loading up his car with semtex and adjusting bandoliers of bullets on his chest when the detectives arrived to question him.
Last edited by Smoove_B on Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
malchior wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:31 pm
Edit: But this one was weird in the sense that this guy was not local in a real way. Luckily social media has turned a lot of folks into absolute loons who feel they can threaten violence with apparent impunity. And it turns out - they're right - they pretty much can!
They've always been there - you can just hear them now.
That's the sort of the point. We're now seeing them in absolutely horrifying numbers, escalating violence, and realizing society-wide impacts.
malchior wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:31 pm
Edit: But this one was weird in the sense that this guy was not local in a real way. Luckily social media has turned a lot of folks into absolute loons who feel they can threaten violence with apparent impunity. And it turns out - they're right - they pretty much can!
They've always been there - you can just hear them now.
That's the sort of the point. We're seeing them in absolutely horrifying numbers, escalating violence, and society-wide impacts.
No, I think you miss the point. You are simply aware of them and able to worry about them. I would be surprised if the percentages have changed at all over time.
malchior wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:31 pm
Edit: But this one was weird in the sense that this guy was not local in a real way. Luckily social media has turned a lot of folks into absolute loons who feel they can threaten violence with apparent impunity. And it turns out - they're right - they pretty much can!
They've always been there - you can just hear them now.
That's the sort of the point. We're seeing them in absolutely horrifying numbers, escalating violence, and society-wide impacts.
No, I think you miss the point. You are simply aware of them and able to worry about them. I would be surprised if the percentages have changed at all over time.
Well mostly because I can't imagine looking at this world and coming to that conclusion. Especially now that we've seen social and broadcast media radicalize an entire political party. This isn't just a few crazies anymore.
Edit: To be clear, this guy could just be some rando nutjob who'd always act this way. However, I can't discount that the background count on 'crazy' and 'extremist' behaviors are definitely on the rise and IMO enable this type of behavior as we are now seeing it regularly with actual impact.
Last edited by malchior on Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:02 pm, edited 3 times in total.
malchior wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:31 pmEdit: But this one was weird in the sense that this guy was not local in a real way. Luckily social media has turned a lot of folks into absolute loons who feel they can threaten violence with apparent impunity. And it turns out - they're right - they pretty much can!
"Your honor, my client is a resident of Florida. As you're well aware, this means he couldn't have incited a mob to violence in Washington D.C. - he doesn't live there!"
I refuse to believe the only way this guy could have been prosecuted was if he was caught loading up his car with semtex and adjusting bandoliers of bullets on his chest when the detectives arrived to question him.
If he had been conspiring with someone, they could have done something. That would have meant making plans and taking at least one step in furthering the unlawful conduct.
Even with that speech, it would have been interesting had he been caught in your described situation. If he had said he was just going hunting and there was nothing to tie him to actually driving north I could see him getting off. Fortunately most of these people are particularly stupid (see Selfies In the Halls of Congress) - it's the smart, quiet ones you really have to be scared of.
stessier wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:54 pmit's the smart, quiet ones you really have to be scared of.
I agree - and I also agree these wingnuts have always been around. My concern here is we're normalizing this type of behavior on social media and suggesting it's protected speech and "harmless" somehow; I don't buy it. Motivated people are absolutely going to do things regardless, but there's no need for us to shrug our shoulders at anyone that would help stoke the flames and then hide behind the 1st amendment when something happens.
Then again, I guess this is how Fox news has paid the bills for 2+ decades at this point, so of course some rando on Facebook calling for people to get violent towards school officials is just "an exaggeration".
stessier wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:54 pmit's the smart, quiet ones you really have to be scared of.
I agree - and I also agree these wingnuts have always been around. My concern here is we're normalizing this type of behavior on social media and suggesting it's protected speech and "harmless" somehow; I don't buy it. Motivated people are absolutely going to do things regardless, but there's no need for us to shrug our shoulders at anyone that would help stoke the flames and then hide behind the 1st amendment when something happens.
Then again, I guess this is how Fox news has paid the bills for 2+ decades at this point, so of course some rando on Facebook calling for people to get violent towards school officials is just "an exaggeration".
I understand the frustration, but believe vigilance and police work are our best bet rather than outlawing the speech. Try coming up with a test that this speech fails but doesn't infringe on something you agree with. The best we've done is "true threats" without the Supreme Court defining exactly what that means.
stessier wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:04 pm
I understand the frustration, but believe vigilance and police work are our best bet rather than outlawing the speech. Try coming up with a test that this speech fails but doesn't infringe on something you agree with. The best we've done is "true threats" without the Supreme Court defining exactly what that means.
FWIW I get that the tension with a hazy line is a real problem that we've been struggling with for basically the whole time we've been a country. However, you have to imagine there is a tipping point where the outsized weight of violent incidents starts to act against "liberty". Attempted intimidation of officials has been a real problem this last year to say the least. Will that risk recede? Maybe but we've got piles of research telling us that violent rhetoric and actual violence are on the rise. At some point, the chances seem high that this question will be re-visited and it'd be better to contemplate that now than after a big failure.
stessier wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:47 pmYou are simply aware of them and able to worry about them. I would be surprised if the percentages have changed at all over time.
Percentages matter as size increases. 1 in 100,000 in a population of 100,000 being a total nutjob who'll get into violence might just mean you've got a goober who mutters into a corner and snarls at passers-by. 1 in 100,000 with 360,000,000 people gives you 3,600 nutjobs who are able to find each other on social media and actually start taking action.
Black Lives Matter
2021-01-20: The first good night's sleep I had in 4 years.
Remember when Republicans were so concerned about how D&D, rap music and video games would encourage children to become violent and separated from reality?
Little did we know that reality TV and social media would be the real forces of incivility and insurrection.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein "I don't stand by anything." - Trump “Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867 “It is the impractical things in this tumultuous hell-scape of a world that matter most. A book, a name, chicken soup. They help us remember that, even in our darkest hour, life is still to be savored.” - Poe, Altered Carbon
Two school board members in the Twin Rivers Unified School District had their property vandalized last week and one of the vandals left a note calling for an end to distance learning.
Vice president Michael Baker has served on the school board since 2012.
He says he’s dealt with a lot of angry parents over the years, but not until now has that anger turned into action.
“Around maybe 9:00, the neighbor called and said ‘Hey, are you aware that your car window is busted out?’ And I of course jumped up, went outside, there was glass all in the street, glass in the car,” Baker told FOX40.
The Jeep in his driveway had been vandalized with a note left on the seat of his car with this misspelled message: “bringg kids bacc”.
I wonder if they'll find comments on social media some where encouraging this type of behavior?
Smoove_B wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:26 amThe Jeep in his driveway had been vandalized with a note left on the seat of his car with this misspelled message: “bringg kids bacc”.
You have to admit it makes a compelling case for more education.
/. "She climbed backwards out her
\/ window into Outside Over There."
Zarathud wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:45 am
Remember when Republicans were so concerned about how D&D, rap music and video games would encourage children to become violent and separated from reality?
Little did we know that reality TV and social media would be the real forces of incivility and insurrection.
I've seen it pointed out that Fox did to our parents what our parents said Rap would do to us.
Zarathud wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:45 am
Remember when Republicans were so concerned about how D&D, rap music and video games would encourage children to become violent and separated from reality?
Little did we know that reality TV and social media would be the real forces of incivility and insurrection.
I've seen it pointed out that Fox did to our parents what our parents said Rap would do to us.
Rap is something you DO, hiphop is something you LIVE.
Zarathud wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:45 am
Remember when Republicans were so concerned about how D&D, rap music and video games would encourage children to become violent and separated from reality?
Little did we know that reality TV and social media would be the real forces of incivility and insurrection.
I've seen it pointed out that Fox did to our parents what our parents said Rap would do to us.
Never thought of it that way but yeah, they were projecting about how impressionable they are.
Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:48 pm
I LOVE that commercial for some reason. LURV it.
Me too. When mom starts to groove and dad responds by peacocking, it's brings a smile to my face every time.
