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An interesting perspective on yesterday's rioters in the Capitol…

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Holman
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Re: An interesting perspective on yesterday's rioters in the Capitol…

Post by Holman »

malchior wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:53 am
Holman wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:50 amThat's why I think the danger of a blanket presidential pardon is real.
I am scared of this because it is the end of rule of law in a real way. However, unless he tweets it out I can't imagine it happening.
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Re: An interesting perspective on yesterday's rioters in the Capitol…

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Holman wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:50 am...especially if it looks like some of them pre-planned this.
While I can easily see a BLM protest turning ugly once the cops start trying to force people out, I think the people who ended up looting likely intended to before anything started. Some even arrived in cars from other states just to take advantage of the chaos like it was a double-coupon day.

I think the same may be true here. A majority of these people probably went with the intent to just scream at the stone walls and shake their fists in fury. A few went with intent to see how far they could go.

The part that leaves me staggered and mind-blown are the fucking cops in these videos - taking selfies with trespassers and moving barricades out of the way. I'm used to seeing police take advantage of a situation in order to flex their egos and bias. I'm not used to seeing them actively side with criminals openly.

The Capital building should probably update their security measures to cycle in real police officers and not security guards with guns.
Last edited by Paingod on Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: An interesting perspective on yesterday's rioters in the Capitol…

Post by stessier »

Holman wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:50 am The more people they gather up and lean on, the more will roll over on their friends, especially if it looks like some of them pre-planned this.

The FBI is very good at sweating confessions and names out of people (or at least people who don't have the president's phone number).
They are good at that last group too - they've gotten confessions and convictions - they just don't always stick.

As MrFed says, the wheels of justice grind slowly. It might not be quick, but they'll get people if they want to.
That's why I think the danger of a blanket presidential pardon is real.
That would be....bad.
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Re: An interesting perspective on yesterday's rioters in the Capitol…

Post by Paingod »

stessier wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:02 am
Holman wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:50 amThat's why I think the danger of a blanket presidential pardon is real.
That would be....bad.
And entirely within character for our sitting president.

I still half expect him to decide to pardon every federal prisoner, just because he can and knows it would sow chaos and hate.
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Re: An interesting perspective on yesterday's rioters in the Capitol…

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This is why I can't believe the next to useless Democratic leadership isn't rushing Articles of Impeachment. They announce Pence you must use the 25th Amendment or we will impeach. This is followed by Pence leaving them hanging on the phone for a half hour. So their next move is to say they will do it next week!?! I'm at my wits end with these bunglers. Trump is a fucking moron but he knows the universal truth that taking action speaks volumes. They are perpetually on defense. At some point you must counter attack or you will lose.
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Re: An interesting perspective on yesterday's rioters in the Capitol…

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Jaymann wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:58 pm What, do they allow iPhones in federal prison now?
Judging by "Orange is the New Black" its pretty easy to get one.
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Re: An interesting perspective on yesterday's rioters in the Capitol…

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Remus West wrote:
Jaymann wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:58 pm What, do they allow iPhones in federal prison now?
Judging by "Orange is the New Black" its pretty easy to get one.
And from all the shows I watch, it's like Verizon offers a Friends and Felons cellular plan.
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Re: An interesting perspective on yesterday's rioters in the Capitol…

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malchior wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:14 amAt some point you must counter attack or you will lose.
Playing defense only works when your opponent can wear themselves out against that defense. They're playing defense against a man who never gets tired of lying and creating chaos.
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Re: An interesting perspective on yesterday's rioters in the Capitol…

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Paingod wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:10 pm
malchior wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:14 amAt some point you must counter attack or you will lose.
Playing defense only works when your opponent can wear themselves out against that defense. They're playing defense against a man who never gets tired of lying and creating chaos.
WTF. This is just political malpractice. It should have happened yesterday when Pence hung up on them. Mid-next week!?! I'm speechless. Pelosi is overmatched by these events. This is a fucking emergency and they are in analysis paralysis.


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Re: An interesting perspective on yesterday's rioters in the Capitol…

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I'm just hoping they don't go full-on over the top before then and send him a strongly worded letter. We'd never come back from that kind of dissent.
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Re: An interesting perspective on yesterday's rioters in the Capitol…

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malchior wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:14 am This is why I can't believe the next to useless Democratic leadership isn't rushing Articles of Impeachment. They announce Pence you must use the 25th Amendment or we will impeach. This is followed by Pence leaving them hanging on the phone for a half hour. So their next move is to say they will do it next week!?! I'm at my wits end with these bunglers. Trump is a fucking moron but he knows the universal truth that taking action speaks volumes. They are perpetually on defense. At some point you must counter attack or you will lose.
Done now and nothing goes through as Senate Republicans won't vote to remove. Done immediately after the new Senators from Georgia are sworn in and they can remove him without the Republicans.
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Re: An interesting perspective on yesterday's rioters in the Capitol…

Post by Ralph-Wiggum »

Can blanket pardons be issued to a group of people without specifically naming the individuals?
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Re: An interesting perspective on yesterday's rioters in the Capitol…

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Remus West wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:32 pm
malchior wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:14 am This is why I can't believe the next to useless Democratic leadership isn't rushing Articles of Impeachment. They announce Pence you must use the 25th Amendment or we will impeach. This is followed by Pence leaving them hanging on the phone for a half hour. So their next move is to say they will do it next week!?! I'm at my wits end with these bunglers. Trump is a fucking moron but he knows the universal truth that taking action speaks volumes. They are perpetually on defense. At some point you must counter attack or you will lose.
Done now and nothing goes through as Senate Republicans won't vote to remove. Done immediately after the new Senators from Georgia are sworn in and they can remove him without the Republicans.
That isn't part of the math. The trial wouldn't happen that fast. The message that needs to be sent is Congress is in charge.
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Re: An interesting perspective on yesterday's rioters in the Capitol…

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Remus West wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:32 pm
malchior wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:14 am This is why I can't believe the next to useless Democratic leadership isn't rushing Articles of Impeachment. They announce Pence you must use the 25th Amendment or we will impeach. This is followed by Pence leaving them hanging on the phone for a half hour. So their next move is to say they will do it next week!?! I'm at my wits end with these bunglers. Trump is a fucking moron but he knows the universal truth that taking action speaks volumes. They are perpetually on defense. At some point you must counter attack or you will lose.
Done now and nothing goes through as Senate Republicans won't vote to remove. Done immediately after the new Senators from Georgia are sworn in and they can remove him without the Republicans.
The Constitution requires a two-thirds vote of the Senate to convict.
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Re: An interesting perspective on yesterday's rioters in the Capitol…

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Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:33 pm Can blanket pardons be issued to a group of people without specifically naming the individuals?
Carter pardoned everyone who avoided the Vietnam draft...

https://www.archives.gov/federal-regist ... 04483.html
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Re: An interesting perspective on yesterday's rioters in the Capitol…

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Daveman wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:49 pm
Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:33 pm Can blanket pardons be issued to a group of people without specifically naming the individuals?
Carter pardoned everyone who avoided the Vietnam draft...

https://www.archives.gov/federal-regist ... 11967.html
I can see Trump doing that on the way out the door as a big fuck you! It sure will make the alt right feel untouchable and embolden their seditious behavior in the future.
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Re: An interesting perspective on yesterday's rioters in the Capitol…

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Isgrimnur wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:49 pm
Remus West wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:32 pm
malchior wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:14 am This is why I can't believe the next to useless Democratic leadership isn't rushing Articles of Impeachment. They announce Pence you must use the 25th Amendment or we will impeach. This is followed by Pence leaving them hanging on the phone for a half hour. So their next move is to say they will do it next week!?! I'm at my wits end with these bunglers. Trump is a fucking moron but he knows the universal truth that taking action speaks volumes. They are perpetually on defense. At some point you must counter attack or you will lose.
Done now and nothing goes through as Senate Republicans won't vote to remove. Done immediately after the new Senators from Georgia are sworn in and they can remove him without the Republicans.
The Constitution requires a two-thirds vote of the Senate to convict.
Right. I moved past that since IMO placing a marker down is way more important than worrying about the outcome. The narrative right now is *no one* is really sure who is in charge. It is dangerous.
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Re: An interesting perspective on yesterday's rioters in the Capitol…

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Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:33 pm Can blanket pardons be issued to a group of people without specifically naming the individuals?
My understanding is that blanket pardons and self pardons haven't been tested in court. So I don't see why a blanket pardon for a crime that encompasses a group of individuals couldn't be issued. I mean it seems that any pardon can be issued. Whether they hold up in court is a different question.
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Re: An interesting perspective on yesterday's rioters in the Capitol…

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$iljanus wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:54 pm
Daveman wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:49 pm
Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:33 pm Can blanket pardons be issued to a group of people without specifically naming the individuals?
Carter pardoned everyone who avoided the Vietnam draft...

https://www.archives.gov/federal-regist ... 11967.html
I can see Trump doing that on the way out the door as a big fuck you! It sure will make the alt right feel untouchable and embolden their seditious behavior in the future.
Possibly, but it would be wrong. No Biden pardons are likely.
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Re: An interesting perspective on yesterday's rioters in the Capitol…

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malchior wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:12 pm WTF. This is just political malpractice. It should have happened yesterday when Pence hung up on them. Mid-next week!?! I'm speechless. Pelosi is overmatched by these events. This is a fucking emergency and they are in analysis paralysis.
Get used to it, because much of the ruling class in the U.S. are fossilized coffin-dodgers and a wheezy gerontocracy does not bode well for political competence.

America is a Gerontocracy – and Until That Changes, Its Problems Will Only Get Worse
Aaron Bastani wrote:In 2018 Bill Pascrell, an 83-year-old congressman for New Jersey, posted a photo on Instagram showing US legislators, including himself, meeting a trade delegation from China. This photo is notable for one reason: the politicians and advisors from the East are discernibly younger than the white-haired emissaries of the world’s greatest power.

Enlarge Image

Far from an aberration, this image reflects an inarguable trend in American politics – one underscored in this year’s race for the White House. When he enters the Oval Office in January as the 46th president of the United States, Joe Biden, at the age of 78, will be the oldest person ever to do so. The previous record-holder? His predecessor, Donald Trump.

It was the same story when the one-time Delaware senator sought his party’s nomination for the presidency. Then his only rivals of substance were Bernie Sanders, 78, and Elizabeth Warren, 70. When things looked tough for the now president-elect, rumours emerged that former secretary of state John Kerry, 76, was considering a last-minute bid.

While certainly not limited to the Democrats, the party’s age problem is particularly conspicuous. Unlike the Republicans, the Democrats have no term limits for committee chairs. The party’s House leadership is notable here: the speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, is 80, as is the House majority whip, Jim Clyburn. Meanwhile the House majority leader, Steny Hoyer, is 81. The baby among top Democrats, Senate minority leader Chuck Schumer, is 69. Meanwhile Republican Mitch McConnell is 78, and almost half the Senate is over 65.

There may soon even be a number of elected representatives in their nineties. Senate president pro tempore, Charles Grassley, runs the Senate Finance Committee at 87. Jim Inhofe, chairman of the Armed Services Committee, is 85. Chairman of the Appropriations Committee, Richard Shelby, is 86. Dianne Feinstein, ranking member on the Senate Committee on the Judiciary, is 87.
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Re: An interesting perspective on yesterday's rioters in the Capitol…

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Alefroth wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:40 am
gilraen wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:03 am
Anonymous Bosch wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:53 pm Ben Domenech, a former staffer at the Capitol, clarifies part of problem in the commentary he wrote for the Federalist about the consequences of the assault:
Or maybe I won't be getting my information from some random right-wing staffer and instead read actual news, that made it very clear that National Guard was deployed to Washington DC with a very limited directive to NOT engage with any political protesting. So essentially they were only allowed to manage crowds and traffic several blocks away from the Capitol until the DoD finally approved their "change of mission".
He's no random staffer. He co-founded The Federalist and RedState.
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Re: An interesting perspective on yesterday's rioters in the Capitol…

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I certainly don't. That's why I clarified he's not merely some staffer.
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Re: An interesting perspective on yesterday's rioters in the Capitol…

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"At least in their minds, the true seat of power is not actually in that building. It's online."
They aren't wrong.
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Re: An interesting perspective on yesterday's rioters in the Capitol…

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Re: An interesting perspective on yesterday's rioters in the Capitol…

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One of my best friends has recently taken to getting regularly published on the Federalist and it has totally gutted me.
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Re: An interesting perspective on yesterday's rioters in the Capitol…

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If only they'd ban Rudy and the rest of the asshole posse.
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Re: An interesting perspective on yesterday's rioters in the Capitol…

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Enough wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:44 pm One of my best friends has recently taken to getting regularly published on the Federalist and it has totally gutted me.
Given all the pearl-clutching in this thread courtesy of quoting a simple description of Capitol police that appeared in a Federalist op-ed, clearly the only logical reaction is to nuke your friend from orbit; it's the only way to be sure. ;)
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Re: An interesting perspective on yesterday's rioters in the Capitol…

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Anonymous Bosch wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:58 pm
Enough wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:44 pm One of my best friends has recently taken to getting regularly published on the Federalist and it has totally gutted me.
Given all the pearl-clutching in this thread courtesy of quoting a simple description of Capitol police that appeared in a Federalist op-ed, clearly the only logical reaction is to nuke your friend from orbit; it's the only way to be sure. ;)
We just got together for a zoom meeting last night to grieve another dear friend that died of alcoholism last week, thanks for your warm concerns. Apparently unlike you, my buddy can take some sparing over media sources and their biases therein. I am beyond proud of him for having a best seller on the NYT list and celebrate his success as a friend and also as a friend I challenge him when I think he's getting off-base as he does for me.
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Re: An interesting perspective on yesterday's rioters in the Capitol…

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And yes, the Federalist has morphed into a steaming trash heap instead of the promising intellectual right-leaning site many of us had hoped it could be. Everything Trumpism touches and all I guess, but still a bummer. I miss WF Buckley levels of discourse from the conservasphere.
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Re: An interesting perspective on yesterday's rioters in the Capitol…

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Enough wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:22 pm We just got together for a zoom meeting last night to grieve another dear friend that died of alcoholism last week, thanks for your warm concerns. Apparently unlike you, my buddy can take some sparing over media sources and their biases therein. I am beyond proud of him for having a best seller on the NYT list and celebrate his success as a friend and also as a friend I challenge him when I think he's getting off-base as he does for me.
Yeah, pardon me for my uncouth flippancy, and neglecting to make the sign of the cross and decry the horrific heresy of one of your friends regularly being published by the Voldemort. Quelle horreur! :P
"Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters." -- Daniel Webster
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Re: An interesting perspective on yesterday's rioters in the Capitol…

Post by Enough »

Anonymous Bosch wrote:
Enough wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:22 pm We just got together for a zoom meeting last night to grieve another dear friend that died of alcoholism last week, thanks for your warm concerns. Apparently unlike you, my buddy can take some sparing over media sources and their biases therein. I am beyond proud of him for having a best seller on the NYT list and celebrate his success as a friend and also as a friend I challenge him when I think he's getting off-base as he does for me.
Yeah, pardon me for my uncouth flippancy, and neglecting to make the sign of the cross and decry the horrific heresy of one of your friends regularly being published by the Voldemort. Quelle horreur! :P
I really don't get the Jekyll and Hyde with you AB. I know you as one of the most generous and interesting folks here. I am truly grateful for your posts and our friendship over the last decades but I don't get this at all.

Edit: I'm sorry, I wrote that right after I slipped on some black ice and crashed hard on the pavement and was still pretty shaken up. I dig you as you are, salty dawg and all is why you are interesting. You be you mate and I'll be me, which not surprisingly includes being be gutted when I want.

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Re: An interesting perspective on yesterday's rioters in the Capitol…

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Enough wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:04 am I really don't get the Jekyll and Hyde with you AB. I know you as one of the most generous and interesting folks here. I am truly grateful for your posts and our friendship over the last decades but I don't get this at all.

Edit: I'm sorry, I wrote that right after I slipped on some black ice and crashed hard on the pavement and was still pretty shaken up. I dig you as you are, salty dawg and all is why you are interesting. You be you mate and I'll be me, which not surprisingly includes being be gutted when I want.

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Perhaps you're reading something into my posts here that was not intended on my part. Just to elucidate, I did make a flippant response to your post above because it struck me as a wee bit histrionic. As horrifying as you seemingly found the notion of a friend of yours being regularly published by a prominent web site with a political ideology that diverges from your own, that is something that quite literally would not faze me in the slightest. If anything, were I in your shoes, I'd be proud to celebrate said friend's success, even if they were being published on site with a differing ideology from my own. But it would seem YMMV.

Anyway, I didn't mean to offend and FWIW, I certainly do extend warm concerns towards you for having taken such a harrowing tumble on black ice. Because that does strike me as worthy of such.
"Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters." -- Daniel Webster
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Re: An interesting perspective on yesterday's rioters in the Capitol…

Post by malchior »

Anonymous Bosch wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:54 amAs horrifying as you seemingly found the notion of a friend of yours being regularly published by a prominent web site with a political ideology that diverges from your own, that is something that quite literally would not faze me in the slightest. If anything, were I in your shoes, I'd be proud to celebrate said friend's success, even if they were being published on site with a differing ideology from my own. But it would seem YMMV.
Not jumping into your discussion with Enough but referencing it because it sheds context on another post.
Anonymous Bosch wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:58 pm
Enough wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:44 pm One of my best friends has recently taken to getting regularly published on the Federalist and it has totally gutted me.
Given all the pearl-clutching in this thread courtesy of quoting a simple description of Capitol police that appeared in a Federalist op-ed, clearly the only logical reaction is to nuke your friend from orbit; it's the only way to be sure. ;)
The quote above seems to crystalize what you are talking about. That you think the Federalist is a 'prominent' website solely with a different ideology is outrageous at this moment. That site has played a prominent part in feeding the ongoing delusions that fed this attack on our Democracy. Even now, Ben Domenech is talking about tech company overreach silencing Conservative thoughts.

In that frame, I'll cut through the bullshit because I am done being nice about this. The Federalist is gateway drug mind poison. It is not just a different ideology. It is feeding into a victim narrative that leads people into a web of violence that tried to overthrow the United States. Maybe they live only on the outskirts of that locus of insurgency but even now they are *STILL* pushing a victim narrative (see below). The Federalist's editors aren't victims. They have stoked these fires for year. I'll say with conviction that in that context these comments talking about histrionics or pearl clutching are unacceptable. Enough. Face reality. That was once what Conservatives believed in.



Edit: Another absurd article recently published on 'The Federalist' that indicates this isn't some 'pure' difference in ideology. They are stoking the fires of insurrection by reducing the scope to 'riot' and minimizing what happened. It is in the service of building an alternative victimhood reality.
Media Outrage Over Capitol Riot Isn’t About Defending Democracy, It’s About Wielding Power

After the pro-Trump mob stormed the U.S. Capitol on Wednesday, Twitter blue-checks, politicians, and elite corporate journalists wailed and rent their garments in outrage. But they weren’t really outraged.

Yes, the breach of the capitol was appalling and disturbing. Most people didn’t see it coming and were understandably shocked when images of MAGA bros fighting capitol police began popping up on social media (although the authorities should have been better prepared, most of all D.C. Mayor Muriel Bowser, who had earlier rejected offers of additional law enforcement.) There’s no question the protesters who decided to riot should be prosecuted, as all rioters everywhere should be.

But elite outrage is not really about what happened at the capitol—about the “sacred citadel of our democracy being defiled” and so on. The outrage, like almost all expressions of righteous indignation from our elites in the Trump era, is performative. It is in service of a larger purpose that has nothing to do with the peaceful transfer of power and everything to do with the wielding of power.

Specifically, it’s about punishing supporters of President Trump. If the pro-Trump mob can be depicted as “terrorists” and “traitors,” then there’s almost nothing we shouldn’t do to silence them. Right? Rick Klein, the political director at ABC News, said the quiet part out loud on Thursday when he mused (in a now-deleted tweet) that getting rid of Trump is “the easy part” and the more difficult task will be “cleansing the movement he commands.”
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Anonymous Bosch
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Re: An interesting perspective on yesterday's rioters in the Capitol…

Post by Anonymous Bosch »

malchior wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:31 am
Anonymous Bosch wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:58 pm Given all the pearl-clutching in this thread courtesy of quoting a simple description of Capitol police that appeared in a Federalist op-ed, clearly the only logical reaction is to nuke your friend from orbit; it's the only way to be sure. ;)
The quote above seems to crystalize what you are talking about. That you think the Federalist is a 'prominent' website solely with a different ideology is outrageous at this moment. That site has played a prominent part in feeding the ongoing delusions that fed this attack on our Democracy. Even now, Ben Domenech is talking about tech company overreach silencing Conservative thoughts.

In that frame, I'll cut through the bullshit because I am done being nice about this. The Federalist is gateway drug mind poison. It is not just a different ideology. It is feeding into a victim narrative that leads people into a web of violence that tried to overthrow the United States. Maybe they live only on the outskirts of that locus of insurgency but even now they are *STILL* pushing a victim narrative (see below). The Federalist's editors aren't victims. They have stoked these fires for year.
You misinterpreted what I said. If the site was not prominent (i.e. a very noticeable or important part of something else), its effects upon "our democracy" would be negligible and utterly irrelevant. So even by your own description, it clearly and obviously is a prominent and influential site for those with divergent political beliefs from your own, regardless of how sinister you find their motives to be.
malchior wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:31 amI'll say with conviction that in that context these comments talking about histrionics or pearl clutching are unacceptable.
Image
"Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters." -- Daniel Webster
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gilraen
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Re: An interesting perspective on yesterday's rioters in the Capitol…

Post by gilraen »

Anonymous Bosch wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:54 pm
malchior wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:31 am
Anonymous Bosch wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:58 pm Given all the pearl-clutching in this thread courtesy of quoting a simple description of Capitol police that appeared in a Federalist op-ed, clearly the only logical reaction is to nuke your friend from orbit; it's the only way to be sure. ;)
The quote above seems to crystalize what you are talking about. That you think the Federalist is a 'prominent' website solely with a different ideology is outrageous at this moment. That site has played a prominent part in feeding the ongoing delusions that fed this attack on our Democracy. Even now, Ben Domenech is talking about tech company overreach silencing Conservative thoughts.

In that frame, I'll cut through the bullshit because I am done being nice about this. The Federalist is gateway drug mind poison. It is not just a different ideology. It is feeding into a victim narrative that leads people into a web of violence that tried to overthrow the United States. Maybe they live only on the outskirts of that locus of insurgency but even now they are *STILL* pushing a victim narrative (see below). The Federalist's editors aren't victims. They have stoked these fires for year.
You misinterpreted what I said. If the site was not prominent (i.e. a very noticeable or important part of something else), its effects upon "our democracy" would be negligible and utterly irrelevant. So even by your own description, it clearly and obviously is a prominent and influential site for those with divergent political beliefs from your own, regardless of how sinister you find their motives to be.
And I have long since decided that life is too short for me to be reading this garbage. Their "political beliefs" do not entitle them to their own reality.
malchior
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Re: An interesting perspective on yesterday's rioters in the Capitol…

Post by malchior »

Anonymous Bosch wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:54 pm
malchior wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:31 am
Anonymous Bosch wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:58 pm Given all the pearl-clutching in this thread courtesy of quoting a simple description of Capitol police that appeared in a Federalist op-ed, clearly the only logical reaction is to nuke your friend from orbit; it's the only way to be sure. ;)
The quote above seems to crystalize what you are talking about. That you think the Federalist is a 'prominent' website solely with a different ideology is outrageous at this moment. That site has played a prominent part in feeding the ongoing delusions that fed this attack on our Democracy. Even now, Ben Domenech is talking about tech company overreach silencing Conservative thoughts.

In that frame, I'll cut through the bullshit because I am done being nice about this. The Federalist is gateway drug mind poison. It is not just a different ideology. It is feeding into a victim narrative that leads people into a web of violence that tried to overthrow the United States. Maybe they live only on the outskirts of that locus of insurgency but even now they are *STILL* pushing a victim narrative (see below). The Federalist's editors aren't victims. They have stoked these fires for year.
You misinterpreted what I said. If the site was not prominent (i.e. a very noticeable or important part of something else), its effects upon "our democracy" would be negligible and utterly irrelevant. So even by your own description, it clearly and obviously is a prominent and influential site for those with divergent political beliefs from your own, regardless of how sinister you find their motives to be.
Oh FFS. What a spin. I wasn't arguing it wasn't prominent and you know it. If you got confused by the highlight that is possibly a fair misunderstanding but the context makes it clear that wasn't my point. The next sentence used prominent for emphasis.
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Anonymous Bosch
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Re: An interesting perspective on yesterday's rioters in the Capitol…

Post by Anonymous Bosch »

malchior wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:41 pm Oh FFS. What a spin. I wasn't arguing it wasn't prominent and you know it. If you got confused by the highlight that is possibly a fair misunderstanding but the context makes it clear that wasn't my point. The next sentence used prominent for emphasis.
I am not confused; I simply do not share your melodramatic reaction at the mere quotation of a mundane description of Capitol police simply because it originated from a site with divergent political beliefs from your own. Make no mistake, my quotation of that particular comment wasn't a tacit endorsement of everything that site has ever said or represented, nor the even the op-ed from which it originated. As far as I'm concerned, it's a political web site that I view apathetically, and you clearly do not. And that's okay. Because we ought to be able to agree to differ here without anyone getting their knickers in a knot.
"Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters." -- Daniel Webster
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