[America] Domestic violent extremism

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malchior
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by malchior »

FWIW - I'd rather they take this guy alive. Maybe he is just a loon. Maybe he isn't but any time we get them alive we typically can learn more than figuring it out from whatever clues they leave behind.
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by LawBeefaroni »

malchior wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 12:11 pm FWIW - I'd rather they take this guy alive. Maybe he is just a loon. Maybe he isn't but any time we get them alive we typically can learn more than figuring it out from whatever clues they leave behind.
Ok, but if we have to her MTG or some other idiot blather on about how his "protest" was justified and there's a GoFundMe for his legal fees, I'll probably loose it.
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malchior
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by malchior »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 12:38 pm
malchior wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 12:11 pm FWIW - I'd rather they take this guy alive. Maybe he is just a loon. Maybe he isn't but any time we get them alive we typically can learn more than figuring it out from whatever clues they leave behind.
Ok, but if we have to her MTG or some other idiot blather on about how his "protest" was justified and there's a GoFundMe for his legal fees, I'll probably loose it.
I'm with you there.
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

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LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 12:38 pm
malchior wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 12:11 pm FWIW - I'd rather they take this guy alive. Maybe he is just a loon. Maybe he isn't but any time we get them alive we typically can learn more than figuring it out from whatever clues they leave behind.
Ok, but if we have to her MTG or some other idiot blather on about how his "protest" was justified and there's a GoFundMe for his legal fees, I'll probably loose it.
If the reports are accurate and one sitting official calls the homicidal nutsack a patriot...
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by Smoove_B »

Suspect surrenders:
The suspect in an ongoing bomb threat outside the Library of Congress has been taken into police custody after more than five hours of negotiations, U.S. Capitol Police say.

Floyd Ray Roseberry, 49, of Grover, NC is accused of sitting in a black pickup truck outside the Library of Congress claiming to have explosives in his car, according to USCP Chief J. Thomas Manger.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by Holman »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 12:38 pm Ok, but if we have to her MTG or some other idiot blather on about how his "protest" was justified and there's a GoFundMe for his legal fees, I'll probably loose it.
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

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This is why I don't give him an inch of doubt about his intentions on 1/6.
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

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Does he understand our citizens anger toward his path to destroy the union, our liberty, freedom, and the very fabric of American society? He can take his vision of ironic patriotism and shove it up his treason supporting ass.

(Holman, you pulled the patriotism card just to rile me up, didn't you?)
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

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Holman wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 4:04 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 12:38 pm Ok, but if we have to her MTG or some other idiot blather on about how his "protest" was justified and there's a GoFundMe for his legal fees, I'll probably loose it.
Yeah, there it is. Godamnit.
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

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"Dictatorial Socialism" = anything I don't like
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by malchior »

Skinypupy wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 5:22 pm "Dictatorial Socialism" = anything I don't like
He might as well say 'Lib Shit'
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by malchior »

Good clip talking through some analysis of what's potentially at the root of this type of behavior and targeting.

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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

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LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 4:19 pm
Holman wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 4:04 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 12:38 pm Ok, but if we have to her MTG or some other idiot blather on about how his "protest" was justified and there's a GoFundMe for his legal fees, I'll probably loose it.
Yeah, there it is. Godamnit.
God, I hate that fucktard and he represents my district. I've hated him ever since he was district attorney for Huntsville back in the 90's. He's always been a slimy piece of shit but somehow keeps getting elected. Never voted for him and never will.
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by malchior »

It's probably not great that we're at the point where we have right-wing thugs meeting in hand-to-hand combat [and a little shooting] with 'antifa' types every weekend in one city or another.







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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by Blackhawk »

It is such a small step from this to open, armed warfare.

We discuss in the Afghanistan thread how they can't function because it is less a nation than a bunch of warring tribes that share a space. We seem to want the same thing here.
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

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And our cops are nowhere. Official position is they’re not going to interfere on either side in the moment, but, don’t worry: They’re watching the social media channels and may take action after the fact.

Great. That makes me feel SOOOOOO much better.
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

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Just remember: the cops can stand there and watch someone beat you to death, and they're not legally required to intervene.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by LordMortis »

Kurth wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 7:56 pm And our cops are nowhere. Official position is they’re not going to interfere on either side in the moment, but, don’t worry: They’re watching the social media channels and may take action after the fact.

Great. That makes me feel SOOOOOO much better.

I'm missing a key piece. What are the both sides and non-interference for an organized group destroying and looting an handicapped van?
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by malchior »

LordMortis wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:20 am
Kurth wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 7:56 pm And our cops are nowhere. Official position is they’re not going to interfere on either side in the moment, but, don’t worry: They’re watching the social media channels and may take action after the fact.

Great. That makes me feel SOOOOOO much better.

I'm missing a key piece. What are the both sides and non-interference for an organized group destroying and looting an handicapped van?
It is a confusing situation. A lot of folks are making the obvious comparison. BLM protests last year were met with brutal crackdowns by the authorities. Riots by white nationalist groups are being met by amateurs/vigilantes with plastic shields. And those same authorities are just standing back and watching it happen. It raises real questions about tacit support and tolerance of white nationalism by authorities, and the general decline of law and order.
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

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I'm a very long way from Portland, but the story I've read is that the Portland cops are deeply demoralized.

For a very long time, they've felt like the city administration doesn't have their backs. They've felt like the local DA doesn't support them and won't prosecute anyone they arrest anyway. Anything they do just gets them screamed at on social media. And there's so few of them left that they're overworked, overextended, and just plain burned out. So a lot them are basically saying "Fuck it. If nobody else in this city cares, I guess I don't either. If the idiots want to brawl, let them."

And that is now the official policy.
City officials say Portlanders should expect a hands-off approach from the Portland Police Bureau ahead of anticipated clashes this weekend between far-right groups and leftist counterprotesters.

“We are dedicated to keeping the peace. Our ask is simple: We are asking you to choose love,” Mayor Ted Wheeler said during a Friday afternoon press conference. “People should not necessarily expect to see the police standing in the middle of the crowd trying to keep people apart. People need to keep themselves apart and avoid physical confrontation.”
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

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So Portland is now a demilitarized zone with neither authorities nor laws.

My sister lives near Portland. If she wanders in, should I call Snake Plissken to get her out?
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

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It's what happens when the police are treated like the enemy by politicians who are supposed to lead them and the DAs/SAs that pander to public opinion (as elected officials). It's happening here in Chicago. Why risk death, injury, prison, or a lawsuit for a system that doesn't have your back? Why police a community that won't cooperate and will openly interfere in any investigation?

How we got here is irrelevant to the cops on the beat. To them, we're here and they respond accordingly.
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

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Oh, and the Proud Boys, etc, know this and are taking advantage of it where it favors them. Notice they don't march through East St. Louis or South Chicago.
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by malchior »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:58 am It's what happens when the police are treated like the enemy by politicians who are supposed to lead them and the DAs/SAs that pander to public opinion (as elected officials). It's happening here in Chicago. Why risk death, injury, prison, or a lawsuit for a system that doesn't have your back? Why police a community that won't cooperate and will openly interfere in any investigation?

How we got here is irrelevant to the cops on the beat. To them, we're here and they respond accordingly.
I have some sympathy for this idea but the theory has some major gaps. Especially where it constantly seems to fall apart on first contact with non-white. Also the idea that the system doesn't have their back is ludicrous. It is absolutely non-factual. I get they express this but it's just bluster to cover for the fact that policing as an institution in our nation is completely dysfunctional. Which isn't surprising since *we* are dysfunctional.
LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:01 am Oh, and the Proud Boys, etc, know this and are taking advantage of it where it favors them. Notice they don't march through East St. Louis or South Chicago.
Indeed. I enjoyed watching them get run out of downtown Philadelphia as the entire city turned on those assholes.
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

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LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:58 am It's what happens when the police are treated like the enemy by politicians
I think 'disposable tools' would be more accurate.
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

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malchior wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:29 am Indeed. I enjoyed watching them get run out of downtown Philadelphia as the entire city turned on those assholes.
You can't out-asshole Philadelphia.
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Blackhawk wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 11:03 am
LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:58 am It's what happens when the police are treated like the enemy by politicians
I think 'disposable tools' would be more accurate.
Agreed.
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by LawBeefaroni »

malchior wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:29 am
LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:58 am It's what happens when the police are treated like the enemy by politicians who are supposed to lead them and the DAs/SAs that pander to public opinion (as elected officials). It's happening here in Chicago. Why risk death, injury, prison, or a lawsuit for a system that doesn't have your back? Why police a community that won't cooperate and will openly interfere in any investigation?

How we got here is irrelevant to the cops on the beat. To them, we're here and they respond accordingly.
I have some sympathy for this idea but the theory has some major gaps. Especially where it constantly seems to fall apart on first contact with non-white. Also the idea that the system doesn't have their back is ludicrous. It is absolutely non-factual. I get they express this but it's just bluster to cover for the fact that policing as an institution in our nation is completely dysfunctional. Which isn't surprising since *we* are dysfunctional.

I wouldn't say it's completely non-factual. Policing can be a dysfunctional institution that has members that are not supported. There are countless examples of lack of prosecution or bonding out violent criminals.

A cop arrests someone for UUW or carjacking and sees the guy on the same beat the next day. And he can't do a terry stop. I'd say in my car waiting for lunch time too.
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by malchior »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:01 pmI wouldn't say it's completely non-factual. Policing can be a dysfunctional institution that has members that are not supported. There are countless examples of lack of prosecution or bonding out violent criminals.
It is hard to take this too seriously in the system with the most violent and non-violent people in custody in the world. Most of our states would be #1 if they weren't in the United States. The very idea that "countless" people are being released into the wild to undermine the police is just not reality. It is what they say when the system starts to pull back from the immense overreach we have in this system. Are their wider issues? Sure but this narrative is just not supportable when you look at basic facts.
A cop arrests someone for UUW or carjacking and sees the guy on the same beat the next day.
While I'm sure this has happened, that it happens wholesale and somehow indicates lack of police support is ... exactly what I mean by not factual. Yet. Bail reform policies are new and we don't have a lot of data on them. If I was to pull up a random story say in the WSJ about these type of complaints from a month ago in Chiacago all you'll see are anecdotes. And we have little reason to believe the police on these issues at this point. And that isn't politician's or the public's fault either. If they wanted to be trusted, they should have acted in a trustworthy manner.
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by LawBeefaroni »

I don't know that it's a matter of trusting the police. These are provable facts. Either there are prosecution and bail issues not there aren't.

Whether it indicates lack of systemic support I suppose is debatable but there is no debate that it affects morale. Anecdotes and experience are what the beat cop goes by, not national data sets.

So it's really no surprise when they "go fetal."
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by Zarathud »

The job is the job. It doesn’t get easier when it’s done terribly.

I might feel differently if I didn’t know the police let shit slide before. Officers knew there were bad cops doing nothing or wrong, and let them do a shitty job sitting in the car waiting for lunch. Now everyone slacks off? I understand the feeling, but overcoming low morale is what being a responsible grown up is all about. These are the self-proclaimed tough guys, not Care Bears.

That said, the police department needs to hire more and train better.
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Zarathud wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 1:38 pm The job is the job. It doesn’t get easier when it’s done terribly.

I might feel differently if I didn’t know the police let shit slide before. Officers knew there were bad cops doing nothing or wrong, and let them do a shitty job sitting in the car waiting for lunch. Now everyone slacks off? I understand the feeling, but overcoming low morale is what being a responsible grown up is all about. These are the self-proclaimed tough guys, not Care Bears.

That said, the police department needs to hire more and train better.

It's not slacking off. It's avoiding liability and injury/death. Hell, it's official policy now not to initiate a car chase without command approval. In most cases car chases are called off. Foot chases have a detailed decision tree:
Among its rules, the new policy prohibits foot pursuits for minor traffic violations, bars officers from separating from partners if they can’t see the person they’re chasing or if the officer or the person is injured. Under the new policy, the chase must end if the officer has lost track of their location or their surroundings, if there is too much distance or obstacles between the officer and the person they are chasing, and if they will not be able to control the subject of the chase in a confrontation.

In addition, officers must first consider if the need to apprehend a suspect is worth the risk to the officer, the public or the subject before a foot pursuit takes place. The policy also says officers can pursue people on foot only if they have probable cause the person committed a crime or believe that they’re about to commit one.

Police officers must activate body worn cameras for every foot pursuit.
You want to make the job more like working a call center than policing, you're going to get candidates to match. Nothing against someone working a call center, they're just not willing or expected to risk their life on a daily basis.
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

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Zarathud wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 1:38 pmThat said, the police department needs to hire more and train better.
They can't.
he bureau is authorized to have 916 sworn officers, but Chief Lovell believes they need 1,100 to minimally staff patrol, investigations, traffic and gun violence teams. But rebuilding the bureau, according to PPB, will likely take years.

Hiring a new officer in Portland takes about six months and then an officer isn’t considered fully trained for 18 months from hire.

PORTLAND, OR (KPTV) - A new survey from the Portland Police Association shows increasingly low morale among rank-and-file officers.

To top these staffing shortages off, according to a survey from the Portland Police Association, there is increasingly low morale among officers. The survey found they don’t feel valued as city employees.
Leaders in Portland, Ore., are looking to combat the city’s rising homicide rate by resurrecting a police unit focused on gun violence. But after a year of growing tension within the department, they can’t find enough officers to join.

Since 14 job openings were announced in May, only four police personnel have applied to work with the new version of Portland’s Gun Violence Reduction Team, which was shut down last year amid long-running protests seeking racial justice and an overhaul of police practices. None have yet been assigned.

Portland officers say such positions, once considered prestigious, are now less desirable, given the increased scrutiny that accompanies them. The new unit has its own citizen-advisory board, instituted after the old unit was criticized by city leaders for racial profiling. A job description says qualifications include the ability to fight systemic racism.
Can you imagine the level of self-hatred you would have to have to voluntarily sign up with the Portland PD right now? There are lots of places that don't openly loath their cops if you really want to wear the blue, and if you really want to stay in Portland but still want to fight crime, just sign up as an armed security guard.
Private armed security outfits have been hired to patrol a popular section of Portland known for its bars and nightlife after the city slashed police funding and saw a year of violence in the area.

"My job is to get you home safe," one guard for the Ravencrest Force Protection Group, Jean-Pierre LaFont, told Willamette Weekly. "Unless you’re the perpetrator. The only way for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing. So I’m going to do something."

"This once was a great city," he added. "This is a great city. It’s the best. We just forgot."

LaFont, a Navy SEAL veteran, patrols Portland’s Old Town wearing a bulletproof vest, and carrying a 9 mm pistol and an AR-15 rifle. He’s become a common sight in the area every Friday and Saturday night after a local bar owner hired Ravencrest following a shooting in June in the area when two men were shot and bullets sprayed across eight cars.
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by LordMortis »

I was going to say Hire more, train better, and pay better with the corollary that we pay more taxes.
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Suburban departments are offering CPD cops like $40K to switch jobs. They save on academy/training costs, the cops get a job where they aren't completely hated, and Chicago ends up with one less experienced cop.

Last time I was at our district, they were down an Lt because he got poached by some rural office. They had no one to fill the job. And with over 150 budgeted Sgt vacancies, they aren't printing new Lts.

And the clown rotation at the top doesn't help. They go from a guy who was ousted for passing out drunk in his car after getting a blowjob from a subordinate to a mayoral puppet who called Ella French (officer killed in LOD) "Ella Fitzgerald" at a press conference.
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by Blackhawk »

Pre-disclaimer: Not defending, just adding a perspective. Let's assume that you're a good cop with the right motivations and are doing things the right way.

Anyway you look at it, police officer is a miserable job. You spend most of your time dealing with the worst of the worst, and dealing with the good people on their worst days. You're constantly lied to until it becomes so ingrained that you can't turn it off, and you find yourself looking for the lies when anyone's talking to you - including your spouse and kids. Even if you are a good cop doing things the right way for the right reason, you're going to be sued for it. They're going to try - it's not if, it's when. And the only thing that will keep you from losing everything is the knowledge that the department and city/state/etc have your back and will stand up for you when you're sued. And after you've alienated your spouse and kids, and the public doesn't want to be around you, the only people you have left are other cops. And yeah, you see some of them doing wrong. And you know that if you take action against them, the rest will turn against you. And then who do you have? And it'll probably get brushed under the rug to avoid a black eye for the department anyway. So you don't say anything (and if you do, you're probably done being a cop anyway.) If you try to do good, you'll be feared and hated. And if you finally do solve some problems, the courts turn around and un-solve them as if you'd never been there. And because the system itself is flawed, and because anyone wearing a badge is equated with everyone else wearing a badge, you're hated, feared, threatened, and despised.

And that's in a city that isn't like Portland.

So no, I don't blame the cops, but what is being done isn't sustainable, either. I don't have the solution. A reboot of society is about the only think I can think of that will help, and that won't happen. It's a no-win.
(˙pǝsɹǝʌǝɹ uǝǝq sɐɥ ʎʇıʌɐɹƃ ʃɐuosɹǝd ʎW)
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Smoove_B
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Location: Kaer Morhen

Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by Smoove_B »

At Macon County GOP event yesterday, Madison Cawthorn called January 6 rioters “political hostages,” and spoke of trying to “bust them out.” Then-
Attendee: “When are you gonna call us to Washington again?"
Cawthorn: “We are actively working on that one.”
Deeper in the thread:
Cawthorn at 1:22:27: "if our election systems continue to be rigged, continue to be stolen, it's going to lead to one place and that's bloodshed."

Says he is "willing to defend liberty at all costs" but would "dread" "having to take up arms against a fellow American"
Maybe next year, maybe no go
malchior
Posts: 24794
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by malchior »

Just some more Proud Boy fun this weekend in Olympia. FWIW, I saw another photo of the injury described below - won't post it - but it appears to be entry above the knee exiting in the shin/ankle area. If real, it totally feels like a belt/holster/pocket shot but the lore still will be that antifa shot a proud boy. I also won't post the video but they chased a woman down the street (you can hear her shrieking), they bear maced her, and laughed as she writhed on the ground. Not a police officer in sight while she is being chased down by a crowd and attacked. This is escalating.





And look at this weird shit. They are attempting to build some sort of larger movement by appealing to more groups with actions like this. The girl does seem to break character a little when this idiot prays for this HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT to find a 'Righteous Husband'.

Last edited by malchior on Sun Sep 05, 2021 9:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Blackhawk
Posts: 43496
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Location: Southwest Indiana

Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by Blackhawk »

A man has gun
Hey, man, have fun
Nice shot
(˙pǝsɹǝʌǝɹ uǝǝq sɐɥ ʎʇıʌɐɹƃ ʃɐuosɹǝd ʎW)
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