Linux makes me feel dumb
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- ChaoZ
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Linux makes me feel dumb
I've been using DOS and Windows since the early/mid 1990s and I would like to think I'm quite proficient at it. I can edit the registry, do minor tweaks, change settings etc.
Yesterday I purchased a used netbook with Xandros Linux installed on it. It's basic, has features most people will need (word processor, spreadsheet, Firefox, etc.), but in looking to install other things, it's just making my head explode!
Anybody have a good primer I can take a look at? Otherwise I'm installing Windows on this thing.
Yesterday I purchased a used netbook with Xandros Linux installed on it. It's basic, has features most people will need (word processor, spreadsheet, Firefox, etc.), but in looking to install other things, it's just making my head explode!
Anybody have a good primer I can take a look at? Otherwise I'm installing Windows on this thing.
- RunningMn9
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Re: Linux makes me feel dumb
Linux is very hands on. For anything that you want to install, a quick internet search should yield a how-to or an equivalent to get you through it.
They have made a lot of progress in this area with stuff like yum, but I never took the time to really learn how to use it effectively. There are some linux folks around here that might be able to help though.
They have made a lot of progress in this area with stuff like yum, but I never took the time to really learn how to use it effectively. There are some linux folks around here that might be able to help though.
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
- Anonymous Bosch
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Re: Linux makes me feel dumb
The articles on this site should get you off to a good start.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." — P. J. O'Rourke
- Victoria Raverna
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Re: Linux makes me feel dumb
Get Ubuntu. Installing popular software and auto updating them are much easier on Ubuntu than Windows.
- RunningMn9
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Re: Linux makes me feel dumb
Having used Ubuntu (as well as a half a dozen other distros), that's a bit of a stretch. But it is fairly easy to use in it's own right.Victoria Raverna wrote:Get Ubuntu. Installing popular software and auto updating them are much easier on Ubuntu than Windows.
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
- Default
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Re: Linux makes me feel dumb
For what most people use it for, Ubuntu Desktop is great. Between Ubuntu and OSX, we haven't had downtime. The Windows boxes had all collapsed at one time or another (remember that MS update that killed dns?), but the *nix boxes have been rocks.RunningMn9 wrote:Having used Ubuntu (as well as a half a dozen other distros), that's a bit of a stretch. But it is fairly easy to use in it's own right.Victoria Raverna wrote:Get Ubuntu. Installing popular software and auto updating them are much easier on Ubuntu than Windows.
I'll be building a Vista comp in the next couple of month, but that'll only be a low priority gaming box. Anything goes wrong with that, I blow away the HD and start over.
"pcp, lsd, thc, tgb...it's all good." ~ Kraken
- RunningMn9
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Re: Linux makes me feel dumb
In terms of uptime - absolutely. In terms of installing/updating software? My experience has been "not yet".Default wrote:For what most people use it for, Ubuntu Desktop is great. Between Ubuntu and OSX, we haven't had downtime. The Windows boxes had all collapsed at one time or another (remember that MS update that killed dns?), but the *nix boxes have been rocks.
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
- hepcat
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Re: Linux makes me feel dumb
Agreed. Yes, I believe it's a more reliable OS. however, that reliability comes at a price and that price is ease of use.RunningMn9 wrote:In terms of uptime - absolutely. In terms of installing/updating software? My experience has been "not yet".Default wrote:For what most people use it for, Ubuntu Desktop is great. Between Ubuntu and OSX, we haven't had downtime. The Windows boxes had all collapsed at one time or another (remember that MS update that killed dns?), but the *nix boxes have been rocks.
Covfefe!
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Re: Linux makes me feel dumb
All OSes are pretty stable if you don't install any software on them. Even more so if you don't allow user access.hepcat wrote:Agreed. Yes, I believe it's a more reliable OS. however, that reliability comes at a price and that price is ease of use.RunningMn9 wrote:In terms of uptime - absolutely. In terms of installing/updating software? My experience has been "not yet".Default wrote:For what most people use it for, Ubuntu Desktop is great. Between Ubuntu and OSX, we haven't had downtime. The Windows boxes had all collapsed at one time or another (remember that MS update that killed dns?), but the *nix boxes have been rocks.
Black Lives Matter
- Victoria Raverna
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Re: Linux makes me feel dumb
If the software is in the ubuntu repositories then installing software is as easy as adding windows components. Updating software is as easy as running windows update. Most popular software are included in the repositories. For other popular software that isn't in those repositories, you can find website where you can add additional repositories and the signature key.
If the software are not in those then you can install it easily by downloading .deb files from website if they're available.
Only if the software are not available in repositories or .deb file then you need to install it manually which is harder if you are not familiar with linux. For binaries, most of them come with installation script. For source code, most of them have standarized compile and install procedure:
# tar xvzf package.tar.gz (or tar xvjf package.tar.bz2)
# cd package
# ./configure
# make
# make install
Most of them come with documentation that tell you how to install them. Linux used to be hard to use but not anymore. Still there are some problem with some Linux distro like for example Ubuntu's default installation still has bug if you want to use static ip.
If the software are not in those then you can install it easily by downloading .deb files from website if they're available.
Only if the software are not available in repositories or .deb file then you need to install it manually which is harder if you are not familiar with linux. For binaries, most of them come with installation script. For source code, most of them have standarized compile and install procedure:
# tar xvzf package.tar.gz (or tar xvjf package.tar.bz2)
# cd package
# ./configure
# make
# make install
Most of them come with documentation that tell you how to install them. Linux used to be hard to use but not anymore. Still there are some problem with some Linux distro like for example Ubuntu's default installation still has bug if you want to use static ip.
- RunningMn9
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Re: Linux makes me feel dumb
You're right, that's so much easier than clicking "setup.exe".
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
- Arcanis
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Re: Linux makes me feel dumb
since high school I have so wanted to get into linux but it is just too hands on to get anything to work on it and I can't play my games on it so that was always the deal breaker.
I understand it has gotten better about the use of windows games but i doubt it will be enough to get me to jump ship, plus i need to be comfortable with windows since that is what everyone who i work for uses.
I understand it has gotten better about the use of windows games but i doubt it will be enough to get me to jump ship, plus i need to be comfortable with windows since that is what everyone who i work for uses.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."--George Orwell
- farley2k
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Re: Linux makes me feel dumb
This is my situation too. I actually have various Linux distros installed on a few machines but generally I still have to have Windows.Arcanis wrote:since high school I have so wanted to get into linux but it is just too hands on to get anything to work on it and I can't play my games on it so that was always the deal breaker.
I understand it has gotten better about the use of windows games but i doubt it will be enough to get me to jump ship, plus i need to be comfortable with windows since that is what everyone who i work for uses.
I still love Linux though and wish I could use it more.
Never, under any circumstances, take a sleeping pill and a laxative the same night
- Dave Barry
- Dave Barry
- hepcat
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Re: Linux makes me feel dumb
RunningMn9 wrote:You're right, that's so much easier than clicking "setup.exe".
All OSes are pretty stable if you don't install any software on them. Even more so if you don't allow user access.
Well, you won me over. I'm uninstalling all the applications from my users' computers this afternoon.
Covfefe!
- Victoria Raverna
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Re: Linux makes me feel dumb
Clicking .deb or .rpm files are as easy as clicking "setup.exe".RunningMn9 wrote:You're right, that's so much easier than clicking "setup.exe".
Using Ubuntu default repositories are much easier than that. You don't have to find the website and download the installation files. You just go to the applet and choose what you want to install.
Updating programs are much easier. You don't have to go to website to download update files for each installed program. You don't have to run multiple auto-update programs from your start-up or scheduled task.
- RunningMn9
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Re: Linux makes me feel dumb
Alright, let's compare. I want to install Microsoft Office 2007 on my PC. What are the steps to do that on Ubuntu?
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
- Grundbegriff
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Re: Linux makes me feel dumb
Why would an Ubuntu user want to install a Microsoft product?
- Victoria Raverna
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Re: Linux makes me feel dumb
With Ubuntu Desktop, you get OpenOffice installed by default. That is much easier than installing Microsoft Office 2007 on Windows OS.RunningMn9 wrote:Alright, let's compare. I want to install Microsoft Office 2007 on my PC. What are the steps to do that on Ubuntu?
- RunningMn9
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Re: Linux makes me feel dumb
We are discussing the issue that Ubuntu is easier to install and manage software on than Windows. The point I was going to illustrate is that a big part of Ubuntu even being included in the discussion is the acceptance that I cannot always run the software I want. I can only run the software available. The typical office suite offerings on Ubuntu are awful. So while it's true that I can install and keep OpenOffice updated easily, OpenOffice sucks. So I don't really win.Grundbegriff wrote:Why would an Ubuntu user want to install a Microsoft product?
In consideration of being able to install what I actually want to use - Ubuntu isn't quite up to par with Windows (in some cases through no fault of their own).
Let's consider the algorithm that VR offered for installing software on Ubuntu:
1) If software is in the Ubuntu repositories, then installing software is as as adding windows components (not easier, but as easy).
2) Updating software that is in the Ubuntu repositories is as easy as running windows update (not easier, but as easy).
3) For popular software that isn't in those repositories, I find a website where I can add additional repositories and the signature key (not as easy).
4) For popular software that isn't in those repositories, and isn't in an additional repository, I can install it by downloading .deb files from a website (if they are available).
5) For software that isn't in those repositories, and isn't in an additional repository, and doesn't have a .deb file available, I can install it either with an installation script (if binaries are packaged) or through the following build process if only source is offered:
# tar xvzf package.tar.gz
# cd package
# ./configure
# make
# make install (he failed to note that this last step only works if you don't get caught in dependency hell)
Let's consider the algorithm offered for installing software on Windows:
1) If install package is on web, double-click to download.
2) Double click on "setup.exe"
Which algorithm do you imagine is the easier one? Without question, Linux has gotten about 10 billion times better than it was when I started messing around with Slackware in 1994. There is no question that for most common software tasks, I can find some tool available for Linux that installs as easily as any windows installation can be. But that is achieved by limiting my choices in terms of what software I can install.
I can't choose any office suite. I can choose the office suites that play nice with Linux (all of which suck *tremendously* compared to the one I actually want to use).
Take installing the nvidia drivers. I just download and run the install package on Windows. No muss, no fuss. On Linux I have to download the install package, unpack it, see the helpful install script, run it, realize that I had to be root to do that, elevate myself to root, run it again, have it complain that I didn't kill the X server first, kill the X server, run the install script a third time, verify that it didn't fubar my X config file, restart the X server, hope that I knew what I was doing when checking the X conf file so that I don't have to debug a fubar'd X conf file.
In fairness, that was on Fedora Core 11, and not Ubuntu. And when I got done, I actually remarked at how easy they've made it to install the nvidia drivers these days.
And while just running Update Software on a modern linux distro is great, both times I've done it with my recent Fedora installations (Core 10 and Core 11), it installed a new kernel, and upon a reboot would no longer startup the system. I had to reboot and go back to the previous kernel to get it to boot up.
This is all better than it was last year even. And I'm not saying that Linux can't be user-friendly. It's a lot closer, but it's not on par with Windows (yet).
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
- RunningMn9
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Re: Linux makes me feel dumb
And that's the point. OpenOffice is garbage. Having it installed by default isn't a win.Victoria Raverna wrote:With Ubuntu Desktop, you get OpenOffice installed by default. That is much easier than installing Microsoft Office 2007 on Windows OS.
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
- Grundbegriff
- Posts: 22277
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:46 am
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Re: Linux makes me feel dumb
The latest OpenOffice, 3.1, does 90% of what 90% of users want an Office Suite to do. And it does it without a ribbon.RunningMn9 wrote:So while it's true that I can install and keep OpenOffice updated easily, OpenOffice sucks. So I don't really win.
I grant that Access is more user friendly than Base (which is really just a wrapper around HSQLDB), but that doesn't really matter much in a world where MySQL is free.
What one wants to use might evolve with experience at living Microsoft-free. PC gaming, of course, requires Windows for the most part-- or a Win emulator for older stuff.In consideration of being able to install what I actually want to use
What exactly are you doing with Office that binds you to Office?I can't choose any office suite. I can choose the office suites that play nice with Linux (all of which suck *tremendously* compared to the one I actually want to use).
I think that's a fair statement wrt usability. However, the cost of all that handholding is and has been high.This is all better than it was last year even. And I'm not saying that Linux can't be user-friendly. It's a lot closer, but it's not on par with Windows (yet).
- Grundbegriff
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Re: Linux makes me feel dumb
I've been using it constantly lo these several years, and (especially in its latest incarnation) I think it's peachy. What's your gripe about it?RunningMn9 wrote:And that's the point. OpenOffice is garbage. Having it installed by default isn't a win.Victoria Raverna wrote:With Ubuntu Desktop, you get OpenOffice installed by default. That is much easier than installing Microsoft Office 2007 on Windows OS.
- RunningMn9
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Re: Linux makes me feel dumb
Grundbegriff wrote:The latest OpenOffice, 3.1, does 90% of what 90% of users want an Office Suite to do. And it does it without a ribbon.
I'm a user interface snob, and OO.org is offensive to me. It feels like a cheap, java-based knock off. Which is what it is. If you don't have money, you can accept the compromises I suppose. But in terms of user interface design - Office 2007 may be one of the best software packages I've ever used. MS Word 2007 >>>>> OpenOffice.org Writer. MS Excel >>>>>>>>> OpenOffice.org Calc.
It would be insulting to even compare PowerPoint to Impress.
And there is no MS OneNote equivalent in OpenOffice (which may be the single greatest productivity application I've ever used).
If I was just writing text documents with the bare minimum of formatting, OpenOffice.org might be sufficient. But the quality of the documents produced in Word 2007 is far superior. And when it comes to spreadsheets, there is no peer to Excel.
If I had to make a direct comparison, I would say that feature-wise, and in terms of aesthetics, OpenOffice.org is probably on par with MS Office 2002.
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
- Grundbegriff
- Posts: 22277
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:46 am
- Location: http://baroquepotion.com
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Re: Linux makes me feel dumb
I'm a user interface snob and ui designer, and OO.o 3.1 is very close to Office 2003. But for its bugs, I prefer Office '03 to Office '07; the latter is so labored on the UX front that the enhancements end up impeding productivity.RunningMn9 wrote:I'm a user interface snob, and OO.org is offensive to me.Grundbegriff wrote:The latest OpenOffice, 3.1, does 90% of what 90% of users want an Office Suite to do. And it does it without a ribbon.
Have you used it lately? Seems like you haven't.It feels like a cheap, java-based knock off. Which is what it is.
Some people like gaudy, overwrought swathes of wasted acreage. Some like the combination of simplicity and power. I'm in that second group.But in terms of user interface design - Office 2007 may be one of the best software packages I've ever used.
True, insofar as the MS products can support advanced features not available in OO.o; but then, most people don't need or care about those advanced features.MS Word 2007 >>>>> OpenOffice.org Writer. MS Excel >>>>>>>>> OpenOffice.org Calc.
Impress is good enough. Presentations that exploit the more glorious features of PowerPoint harm the individual and collective cortex.It would be insulting to even compare PowerPoint to Impress.
True. But in a world where EverNote schools OneNote in almost every respect, who cares? And EverNote is free.And there is no MS OneNote equivalent in OpenOffice (which may be the single greatest productivity application I've ever used).
Until compatibility issues force you to install adapters or strip out proprietary formatting codes.... But again, there's no question that Word can do stuff OO.o cannot do. However, Open Office covers 90% of needs for 90% of people. I find it hard to believe that your documents are so rich and complex that Writer couldn't handle them. And then save them in an open, non-proprietary file format.If I was just writing text documents with the bare minimum of formatting, OpenOffice.org might be sufficient. But the quality of the documents produced in Word 2007 is far superior.
True, but then it's only a small subset of people who need the peerless features. The vast majority uses only features that Excel, Calc, and docs.google have in common. And a plurality probably only uses Excel to organize lists.And when it comes to spreadsheets, there is no peer to Excel.
It's closer to Office 2003 with all service packs and updates, I'd say. And that was a good Office Suite.If I had to make a direct comparison, I would say that feature-wise, and in terms of aesthetics, OpenOffice.org is probably on par with MS Office 2002.
- RunningMn9
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Re: Linux makes me feel dumb
It seemed like that when I first fired up Office '07. After a few hours of using it, I found the exact opposite to be true. Of all versions of MS Office that I've used (and I think that is all of them), '07 feels like the first one that was actually designed around usability and productivity. And not just a slight variation over what they were using in the early 1990s. And while I would accept that familiarity is a big deal in terms of usability, it was time to cut the cord and come up with something better. And they did.Grundbegriff wrote:I'm a user interface snob and ui designer, and OO.O 3.1 is very close to Office 2003. But for its bugs, I prefer Office '03 to Office '07; the latter is so labored on the UX front that the enhancements end up impeding productivity.
Unless they overhauled the UI in the past two weeks, yes. It's what I use when I'm working in Linux and am too lazy to switch back to Windows. I don't install it on Windows because I refuse to install apps that make me install the JRE.Grundbegriff wrote:Have you used it lately? Seems like you haven't.
Fair enough. I prefer user interfaces that are purposefully designed towards enhancing productivity, rather than just using what you've always used, for no other reason that you've always used it. After a very brief learning curve, the difference to me is night and day. And in particular, I had to constantly experience the direct comparison, using Office 07 at home, and Office 03 at work. I came to dislike Office 03 a great deal because of that. Which probably doesn't help the comparison to OpenOffice much.Grundbegriff wrote:Some people like gaudy, overwrought swathes of wasted acreage. Some like the combination of simplicity and power. I'm in that second group.
But even comparing OO to MS '03, I prefer '03. I do not care for the cheap look and feel of OO at all, even in the current versions. If you do, that's fine with me. The issue wasn't whether or not I should be convinced that OO is acceptable to me, it was whether or not forcing me to accept that OO is sufficient counts as a "win" for linux in terms of installing it.
As a counter-example, installing and updating Windows Media Player is exactly as easy as installing and updating OpenOffice is on Ubuntu. It's there as part of the install, and updates itself automatically without me expending any effort. The problem is that I never use Windows Media Player, and have no desire to use it. As a media player, I prefer many other alternatives (including iTunes). Would the ease of install and updating WMP on Windows be a plus if a consequence of that was that it was only one of two equally inferior media players that I could choose from?
Maybe a lot of people are ok with that, I don't know. I'm not.
In many cases, even when the features are coincident - the MS '07 implementation is superior in look, feel and actual functionality. Even simple stuff like coherent style formatting.Grundbegriff wrote:True, insofar as the MS products can support advanced features not available in OO.O; but then, most people don't need or care about those advanced features.
Web clipper bookmarklet? Ewww. Google Notebook has a free offering too, but that was crap the last time I tried it. I'll test drive EverNote though, to offer a more thorough comparison.Grundbegriff wrote:True. But in a world where EverNote schools OneNote in almost every respect, who cares?
It was a good Office Suite (and was better than OO is today). But it's been eclipsed by a better Office Suite (that isn't named OO ).Grundbegriff wrote:It's closer to Office 2003 with all service packs and updates, I'd say. And that was a good Office Suite.
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
- Grundbegriff
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Re: Linux makes me feel dumb
Do you install the .NET framework's CLR?RunningMn9 wrote:I don't install it on Windows because I refuse to install apps that make me install the JRE.
I think it would be fair to say that Office 07's approach to UX will enhance the productivity, and tickle the aesthetic centers, of people like RunningMn9.After a very brief learning curve, the difference to me is night and day. And in particular, I had to constantly experience the direct comparison, using Office 07 at home, and Office 03 at work. I came to dislike Office 03 a great deal because of that. Which probably doesn't help the comparison to OpenOffice much.
I guess I'm just not sure what you're finding cheap in the current look and feel of OO.o relative to Office 03.I do not care for the cheap look and feel of OO at all, even in the current versions.
You're begging the question. The issue was whether the inability to install Microsoft Office was an enormous deficit for, say, Kubuntu. Your argument seems to be this: if the inability to install MS Office is a dealbreaker, then the inability to install MS Office is a dealbreaker. What I'm trying to point out to you is that for most people, the distinctives of MS Office won't bring them to the point of satisfying that antecedent.The issue wasn't whether or not I should be convinced that OO is acceptable to me, it was whether or not forcing me to accept that OO is sufficient counts as a "win" for linux in terms of installing it.
True in some particular cases, yes. But then, have you ever tried to lay out images in Word and then govern their behavior as the document's complexity increases? It's a joke even now. This was a problem Ami Pro had solved in the 90s.RunningMn9 wrote:In many cases, even when the features are coincident - the MS '07 implementation is superior in look, feel and actual functionality. Even simple stuff like coherent style formatting.Grundbegriff wrote:True, insofar as the MS products can support advanced features not available in OO.O; but then, most people don't need or care about those advanced features.
It's much more than that. (I don't even use bookmarklets. In fact, I hardly use bookmarks.) There's a thick client if that's how your antiquated self rolls. As a former devotee of OneNote, I understand the appeal of dumping everything into a well-labeled intersection of tabs and subtabs (for longterm storage in a proprietary format...).Web clipper bookmarklet? Ewww.Grundbegriff wrote:True. But in a world where EverNote schools OneNote in almost every respect, who cares?
In addition to the fat EverNote, there's a sophisticated web clipper which, combined with the corresponding browser plugin, has proved quite useful and unusually usable.
It was pretty minimal; they finally killed it a few months ago.Google Notebook has a free offering too, but that was crap the last time I tried it.
- RunningMn9
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Re: Linux makes me feel dumb
Well, that didn't take long. Why exactly do you think that EverNote is superior?
I just downloaded and installed it.
Test #1: Clip a portion of a website. When I fired up Firefox, I was informed that the plugin is not compatible with the version of Firefox (3.5.1) I am using. No matter, I think I can do it anyway. I want to clip the "Post A Reply" box I am typing in write now. Alright, I use the mouse to highlight what I want to clip, press the Win+A hotkey, and there it goes. It has taken a note.
Hmm....here is the note that EverNote took:
Note that I was not able to highlight the entire section with the mouse. So while I got all the smilies I could want, it didn't actually record any of the text in the text window that I wanted to record. Also note that it looks nothing at all like the source material.
Here is the corresponding note that OneNote took:
Note that curiously, they look nothing alike, and that OneNote actually has the temerity to look exactly like what I was looking at while typing this post.
So far, I'm not all that impressed. Although one positive for it is that because of how it clips, it can preserve URLs. OneNote is clipping an image (which is still searchable), but because of that, you would lose any URLs that you are clipping.
I just downloaded and installed it.
Test #1: Clip a portion of a website. When I fired up Firefox, I was informed that the plugin is not compatible with the version of Firefox (3.5.1) I am using. No matter, I think I can do it anyway. I want to clip the "Post A Reply" box I am typing in write now. Alright, I use the mouse to highlight what I want to clip, press the Win+A hotkey, and there it goes. It has taken a note.
Hmm....here is the note that EverNote took:
Note that I was not able to highlight the entire section with the mouse. So while I got all the smilies I could want, it didn't actually record any of the text in the text window that I wanted to record. Also note that it looks nothing at all like the source material.
Here is the corresponding note that OneNote took:
Note that curiously, they look nothing alike, and that OneNote actually has the temerity to look exactly like what I was looking at while typing this post.
So far, I'm not all that impressed. Although one positive for it is that because of how it clips, it can preserve URLs. OneNote is clipping an image (which is still searchable), but because of that, you would lose any URLs that you are clipping.
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
- RunningMn9
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Re: Linux makes me feel dumb
Nevermind, I just found the "Clip Screenshot" option in EverNote, which would have produced an identical result to OneNote. So it's got that going for it.
And I also realized that OneNote can clip text (preserving URLs) in the same manner as EverNote. I will continue to dig further.
And I also realized that OneNote can clip text (preserving URLs) in the same manner as EverNote. I will continue to dig further.
Last edited by RunningMn9 on Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
- Grundbegriff
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Re: Linux makes me feel dumb
That's because you don't have the content in OneNote. You have a screenshot of the content in OneNote.RunningMn9 wrote:Note that curiously, they look nothing alike, and that OneNote actually has the temerity to look exactly like what I was looking at while typing this post.
If that's all you want, use Gadwin Printscreen, which is free.
So far, I'm not all that surprised.So far, I'm not all that impressed.
- RunningMn9
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Re: Linux makes me feel dumb
I can do both in either.Grundbegriff wrote:That's because you don't have the content in OneNote. You have a screenshot of the content in OneNote.
I haven't seen anything that makes me conclude that EverNote schools OneNote in any way. Aside from being free.
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
- Grundbegriff
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Re: Linux makes me feel dumb
I don't have much spirit for this particular dispute. I have to admit that I still like OneNote a lot.RunningMn9 wrote:I can do both in either.Grundbegriff wrote:That's because you don't have the content in OneNote. You have a screenshot of the content in OneNote.
I haven't seen anything that makes me conclude that EverNote schools OneNote in any way. Aside from being free.
- RunningMn9
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Re: Linux makes me feel dumb
My guess from an hour or so is that loyalties would be dictated by whichever one you fired up first, or whether or not you could afford OneNote.Grundbegriff wrote:I don't have much spirit for this particular dispute. I have to admit that I still like OneNote a lot.
EverNote looks capable once you play with it and remove OneNote habits/biases. I would definitely say that it's closer to OneNote than OO is to Office.
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
- The Preacher
- Forum Moderator
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Re: Linux makes me feel dumb
My wife and non-office users probably find OO perfectly adequate. But I, too, find it laborious. That could just be because it's keyboard shortcuts are different than Msft's (and as a reformed 1-2-3 guy, I depend on kbrd shortcuts). My dislike of the OO presentation software went much deeper. The visuals it produced kind of sucked relative to what I can do in PPT (user error?). /shrug None of this is convincing me to go to Ubuntu
You do not take from this universe. It grants you what it will.
- hitbyambulance
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Re: Linux makes me feel dumb
as we all know, spreadsheet abuse runs rampant in our places of employment. what software application could/should act as a proper 'list organizer' instead of a spreadsheet program?Grundbegriff wrote:And a plurality probably only uses Excel to organize lists.
- SpaceLord
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Re: Linux makes me feel dumb
If you want to feel stupid:
Try using vi after almost 20 years of using Word Perfect and Word.
Try using vi after almost 20 years of using Word Perfect and Word.
They're going to send you back to mother in a cardboard box...
- Victoria Raverna
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Re: Linux makes me feel dumb
vi is still much powerful than most modern text editor.SpaceLord wrote:If you want to feel stupid:
Try using vi after almost 20 years of using Word Perfect and Word.
http://www.viemu.com/a-why-vi-vim.html" target="_blank
Misconception #3: you gotta be nuts and/or a genius to use it
- Rip
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Re: Linux makes me feel dumb
It just can't beat vim. Get with the times.SpaceLord wrote:If you want to feel stupid:
Try using vi after almost 20 years of using Word Perfect and Word.
-
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Re: Linux makes me feel dumb
Let us know when it can psychoanalyze zippy the pinhead, like any decent editor should be able to do.Rip wrote: It just can't beat vim. Get with the times.
- xwraith
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Re: Linux makes me feel dumb
Heh, I ran into a guy who said he did all his programming in vi. He said a gui was a waste of resources. I've also run into guys at work who claim that inner joins are tools of the devilVictoria Raverna wrote:vi is still much powerful than most modern text editor.SpaceLord wrote:If you want to feel stupid:
Try using vi after almost 20 years of using Word Perfect and Word.
http://www.viemu.com/a-why-vi-vim.html" target="_blank
Misconception #3: you gotta be nuts and/or a genius to use it
I forgot to call it "a box of pure malevolent evil, a purveyor of
insidious insanity, an eldritch manifestation that would make Bill
Gates let out a low whistle of admiration," but it's all those, too.
-- David Gerard, Re: [Mediawiki-l] Wikitext grammar, 2010.08.06
insidious insanity, an eldritch manifestation that would make Bill
Gates let out a low whistle of admiration," but it's all those, too.
-- David Gerard, Re: [Mediawiki-l] Wikitext grammar, 2010.08.06
- Zitterbacke
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Re: Linux makes me feel dumb
Installing MS Office. One of the aims of Wine (see it as something to make Windows programs run under Linux, but a different approach to a simple emulator) was to have MS Office run under Linux with Wine Version 1. We surpassed that point (Version 1 in Linux means something completely different to Version 1 under Windows), so the answer to the question how to install MS Office to my knowledge is:
Install Wine (from your add/remove software entry in the main menu)
Install Office.
Installation in general under Ubuntu-Linux:
-Easiest: add/remove software from Ubuntus main menu. Add offers more than 20.000 programs.
-Medium: download the file regarding to your distribution, debian/Ubuntu: xyz.deb. That is probably closest to your Windows experience.
-Bleeding Edge: Small projects or latest up to date code. You see we are talking about stuff you would have to wait for a installer under Windows, under Linux you can already have a peek. You download the sourcecode, unpack and compile it with the three lines mentioned in an earlier post. (or the one-liner: ./configure && make && make install). Remember, this is more for software in stages where you wouldn't even have the chance to see it under Windows, or rely on third parties to act. You wouldn't want to buy the compilers for Windows just to have a peek.
I really like Windows, I use it for gaming!
Install Wine (from your add/remove software entry in the main menu)
Install Office.
Installation in general under Ubuntu-Linux:
-Easiest: add/remove software from Ubuntus main menu. Add offers more than 20.000 programs.
-Medium: download the file regarding to your distribution, debian/Ubuntu: xyz.deb. That is probably closest to your Windows experience.
-Bleeding Edge: Small projects or latest up to date code. You see we are talking about stuff you would have to wait for a installer under Windows, under Linux you can already have a peek. You download the sourcecode, unpack and compile it with the three lines mentioned in an earlier post. (or the one-liner: ./configure && make && make install). Remember, this is more for software in stages where you wouldn't even have the chance to see it under Windows, or rely on third parties to act. You wouldn't want to buy the compilers for Windows just to have a peek.
I really like Windows, I use it for gaming!
Gaming? Nope, I'm into Bitwig.