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Windows 9, er, 10.

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Isgrimnur
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Windows 9, er, 10.

Post by Isgrimnur » Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:03 pm

ZDNet
It seems only a few months have passed since Windows 8.1 was released, probably because it was, and we're already hearing about 'Threshold'. This is the next big update for Windows that is going to solve all of Microsoft's problems with adoption of its OS.

Windows 9, as the next version is reported to be called, is no doubt a push to get more people to make the switch to the new Windows that Microsoft has so much riding on. The adoption to the current phase of Windows hasn't been great, according to Paul Thurrott of WinSuperSite.
...
Microsoft isn't sharing information about Windows 9, but Thurrott speculates that a windowed version of Metro will run on the desktop. I'm not sure what to make of that if it becomes a reality. Many call for the elimination of the desktop to avoid the bipolar nature of Windows 8. Moving windowed Metro to the desktop seems backwards to me.
Last edited by Isgrimnur on Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Windows 9

Post by LordMortis » Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:22 pm

When I took a class in server 2012, I was mortified to see how committed MS are to all of things I don't like about 8. The interface is going nowhere and I'm going to have to teach a lot of people how to use it and pray that pretty much everything we do/use doesn't go completely legacy.

MS need to take long hard look at things. What they are attempting (integrating touch devices and traditional computers) needs to happen but it needs to happen slower and with more thought to integration and buidling rather than sweeping change. It took a half decade or longer for small software developers to adapt to 7x64. Going to 8 and making the desktop a faux desktop with even less (easy) control is oddly enough seems to be more painful to my vendors than was changing from 32bit to 64bit with all of the security changes.

When last I checked, Cisco still didn't support Windows 8 for their VPNs (which I need to check on again)

OtOH thumbs up to PowerShell and its framework. That gets better all of the time.

Having all three interfaces (Keyboard based, mouse driven GUI based, and touch based) available and integrated one OS seems like the natural way to go. You can even remove the desktop and command line based aspects of the OS for your 100% touch based devices.

Gimping the easy control you get with a right click is a sin.

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Re: Windows 9

Post by Jag » Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:28 pm

The metro screen is an abomination. I don't like looking at it and I have no desire to configure it as my home screen, something I like to do with my desktop.

As an OS, 8.1 is fine, but whenever it slips into touch mode I do get annoyed.

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Windows 9

Post by Carpet_pissr » Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:32 pm

I'm sure when they talk about adoption they are mostly referring to corporate clients, but from a sole consumer perspective, I haven't upgraded from 7 just because I haven't seen a good reason to.

If by now, it's MUCH faster than 7, that's a good reason (for me).

I guess they polished 7 too well. :)

I guess also, it worries me that they had to compromise somewhere to make touch feasible (maybe I'm afraid some of the resulting design decisions seeped into the "mouse and keyboard" interface.)

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Re: Windows 9

Post by LordMortis » Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:50 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote:I'm sure when they talk about adoption they are mostly referring to corporate clients, but from a sole consumer perspective, I haven't upgraded from 7 just because I haven't seen a good reason to.
And that's what became clear with I first saw server 2012. MS are committed to change their corporate clients' environments. It'll be an interesting gamble.

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Re: Windows 9

Post by Giles Habibula » Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:08 pm

I'm woefully behind on Windows 8 and how it works, but from what I've gathered, Win8 was designed primarily for touchscreens, right? And isn't that the main problem most people have with it?

If so, why couldn't they have put an option in there during the set-up of your new Win8 install whereby the user is asked: "Will you be using a touchscreen?" And if you click "No", you could then opt for a choice between classic Win7 functionality or the new Win8 look.

Reading what I just wrote, it's more likely that I'm misunderstanding what the problem actually is, since the solution couldn't possibly be that simple. In that case, you'll have to excuse me. I have yet to see Windows 8 in action on a real, live machine, anywhere. All I've seen are screenshots, and a couple of Youtube videos, both of which just make it appear ugly.

I suppose what I need to do is head up to Best Buy someday and actually get some hands-on time with a demo machine, but last time I was up there, they had very few desktop machines set up to try out, and I was in too big of a hurry.
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Re: Windows 9

Post by Blackhawk » Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:50 pm

The solution could be that simple, if Microsoft were interested. Microsoft has this new strategy, however, where they decide what the future will look like, and then insist that it is peoples' only option, regardless of whether they actually like it.

For some reason, Microsoft has determined that every electronic device should function like a phone. That is what they will design, that is what they will give their customer - even if they show, repeatedly, that they hate it.
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Re: Windows 9

Post by gilraen » Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:54 pm

If MS follows their pattern of "good OS, followed by crappy OS, followed by another good OS", then Win 9 should turn out pretty decent :D

I refuse to touch Windows 8. I waited to switch to 64-bit Win 7 until they worked the kinks out with the driver backward compatibility with some older devices (and some other minor problems that were driving me nuts at the time but now I can't remember what it was) :coffee:

Tablet computing brought a paradigm shift into the whole world of consumer-driven operating systems, so I'm willing to give MS the benefit of a doubt. They are trying to adapt on the fly (and not doing too terribly - but just because it works on a Surface tablet, doesn't mean I want anywhere near my home desktop computer...that's the part they are still struggling with)

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Re: Windows 9

Post by Teggy » Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:23 am

Word is that games have started performing better on 8 than 7. However, I have such a large backlog of older games I doubt that that will be enough to convince me to change.

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Re: Windows 9

Post by Blackhawk » Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:37 am

They had their NT and 9X lines for so long that, at least at one point, they recognized that different tasks require different tools. Now they're trying to turn bolts with a hammer.
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Re: Windows 9

Post by Kraken » Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:35 am

gilraen wrote:If MS follows their pattern of "good OS, followed by crappy OS, followed by another good OS", then Win 9 should turn out pretty decent :D

I refuse to touch Windows 8.
If I can afford to, I need to replace my Win XP laptop when MS cuts off support this year. I dread buying a Win 8 machine. Do not want. Now I'm thinking I might flog the old girl until Win 9 is available.

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Re: Windows 9

Post by hitbyambulance » Fri Jan 17, 2014 3:58 am

Kraken wrote:
gilraen wrote:If MS follows their pattern of "good OS, followed by crappy OS, followed by another good OS", then Win 9 should turn out pretty decent :D

I refuse to touch Windows 8.
If I can afford to, I need to replace my Win XP laptop when MS cuts off support this year. I dread buying a Win 8 machine. Do not want. Now I'm thinking I might flog the old girl until Win 9 is available.
any Windows-specific software that you need on that? because i would otherwise suggest installing some Linux distro and running games under WINE.

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Re: Windows 9

Post by Kraken » Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:00 pm

hitbyambulance wrote:
Kraken wrote:
gilraen wrote:If MS follows their pattern of "good OS, followed by crappy OS, followed by another good OS", then Win 9 should turn out pretty decent :D

I refuse to touch Windows 8.
If I can afford to, I need to replace my Win XP laptop when MS cuts off support this year. I dread buying a Win 8 machine. Do not want. Now I'm thinking I might flog the old girl until Win 9 is available.
any Windows-specific software that you need on that? because i would otherwise suggest installing some Linux distro and running games under WINE.
It's my business machine. MS Office and Quickbooks together are 75% of what I use.

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Re: Windows 9

Post by LordMortis » Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:21 am

Kraken wrote:If I can afford to, I need to replace my Win XP laptop when MS cuts off support this year. I dread buying a Win 8 machine. Do not want. Now I'm thinking I might flog the old girl until Win 9 is available.
any Windows-specific software that you need on that? because i would otherwise suggest installing some Linux distro and running games under WINE.[/quote]

It's my business machine. MS Office and Quickbooks together are 75% of what I use.[/quote]


7 is solid. I would look into getting 7 and worry about 9 later. As far as Linux goes, Open Office should suffice. I don't know if QB make Linux version. I know the Windows version can be pretty petty. We run Enterprise to serve the application out and the damned software hates being run off of an actual Windows server.

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Re: Windows 9

Post by RunningMn9 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:44 am

Kraken wrote:If I can afford to, I need to replace my Win XP laptop when MS cuts off support this year. I dread buying a Win 8 machine. Do not want. Now I'm thinking I might flog the old girl until Win 9 is available.
I find this to be mind-boggling. It's 2014 - I can't even comprehend someone still using Windows XP, for anything. And why dread Windows 8? There is literally nothing wrong with it. Because you might have to click on a tile instead of a menu item?!?
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range

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Re: Windows 9

Post by LordMortis » Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:23 pm

RunningMn9 wrote:I find this to be mind-boggling. It's 2014 - I can't even comprehend someone still using Windows XP, for anything. And why dread Windows 8? There is literally nothing wrong with it. Because you might have to click on a tile instead of a menu item?!?
Charm bars. Blech.

Modernizing the interface for 8 Internet browsing broke legacy browsing for too many things for me. Of course MS' solution to this is put IE 11 on 7 and break a lot of legacy browsing there too.

When you open an MS ap, it remembering your thing and trying to go to it again (usually on a USB thumb drive) is inconvenience that continually wastes like three seconds of my life.

And again, when last I checked (which admittedly was last July) Major players like Cisco still didn't support 8 and not having Cisco VPN to work with makes 8 a non starter. (made? But now it's too late for this go around. I've already purchased, configured, and rolled out 40 machines and made the plan to continue to support 7. Even though nearly none of my customer sites support IE anything newer than IE 9 or 10 and don't support any other browser)

Just randomly typing a command on the desktop or in Metro (or whatever you call the tile screen) and having the interface know what's up is teh awesome, though.

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Re: Windows 9

Post by RunningMn9 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:41 pm

You are talking about a large business environment where you have to support tons of machines and legacy software. Kraken is talking about old-man fear of change. :)
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range

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Re: Windows 9

Post by Kraken » Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:18 pm

RunningMn9 wrote:Kraken is talking about old-man fear of pointless change. :)
FTFY.

Did you embrace Win ME because it was new? To me, Win 8 belongs in the same category.

I use XP because my six-year-old laptop came with XP and it still works fine. My desktop machine has Win7 and that works fine. Both OSs are refinements of an unbroken chain dating back to Win95.

Win8 breaks that chain because MS decided everybody should use touchscreens now? I don't want to fight an interface that was made for a machine I don't have. I want it to work the same way windows has worked for 20 years -- transparently, so that I can just go about my work.

As I understand it, 8.1 fixes the worst excesses but it's still a schizophrenic interface. If my next laptop comes with Win 8 installed I'll deal with it. I would rather downgrade to 7 or wait for 9, but it's probably a moot point anyway; the way 2014 is going I won't be able to afford a new machine.

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Re: Windows 9

Post by RunningMn9 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:31 pm

Kraken wrote:Did you embrace Win ME because it was new? To me, Win 8 belongs in the same category.
Did I embrace it? No. Did I install it and use it without incident? Yes.

Kraken wrote:I use XP because my six-year-old laptop came with XP and it still works fine.
I wouldn't suggest installing a new OS on your laptop while it's working fine. I'm not mocking your old-man-ness for that. :)
Kraken wrote:As I understand it, 8.1 fixes the worst excesses but it's still a schizophrenic interface.
Yeah, this is the part that makes me want to make fun of you. :)

The problem with Windows Me and Windows Vista were primarily stability and performance related. On those fronts, I've found Windows 8 to be superior to Windows 7.

I think you would find that windows still works the same as it always has. Other than being visually less primitive, there is very little difference.

Using Metro apps can take getting used to - but most apps aren't metro apps.
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range

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Re: Windows 9

Post by Teggy » Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:32 pm

Whoa - HP is offering Windows 7 PCs "back by popular demand" (and $150 cheaper) and the top of their standard pc page is Windows 7 machines:

http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/20/53268 ... lar-demand" target="_blank

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Re: Windows 9

Post by gilraen » Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:37 pm

I had Win XP on my work laptop up until 2 months ago (and some of my coworkers still do). Our company is now pushing to get us all Win 7 laptops before the end of March just because they can't have us run an OS that's no longer supported by Microsoft. But we definitely can't and won't support Win 8, it will break ALL internal software tools (and even with Win 7 there are limitations, like we cannot use IE11). By the time our customers decide they want to upgrade from Win 7, it'll probably be time for Win 9 anyway :)

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Re: Windows 9

Post by RunningMn9 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:11 pm

I guess I am lucky. Every application I owned on Windows 7 worked without incident on Windows 8. Apparently I support better application developers than you all do. :)

Having spent two decades developing Windows software, I'm more than a little surprised that this is such a problem still.
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range

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Re: Windows 9

Post by Blackhawk » Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:38 pm

I use XP on every machine in my house save my gaming system. Why? Because I have it. It would cost me hundreds to upgrade, and one of the machines probably wouldn't even run Win 7 or 8.

As to change in Win8 - it is, as someone said, pointless change. It is changing something that is effective, efficient, and logical into something that is catchy instead.
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Re: Windows 9

Post by JCC » Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:21 pm

LordMortis wrote: And again, when last I checked (which admittedly was last July) Major players like Cisco still didn't support 8 and not having Cisco VPN to work with makes 8 a non starter. (made? But now it's too late for this go around. I
I have used Shrew Soft's Access Manager has a Cisco VPN Client alternative. It could get me to my work's old VPN with the .pcf file in Windows 8. The Cisco AnyConnect client seems to work in Windows 8 fine.

I am in the Aero sucks crowd when it comes to Windows 8. There is no reason I would trade a mouse/keyboard interface for a touchscreen interface on a desktop PC.

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Re: Windows 9

Post by RunningMn9 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:17 pm

JCC wrote:There is no reason I would trade a mouse/keyboard interface for a touchscreen interface on a desktop PC.
Ummm...you don't have to. My keyboard and mouse still work...

As for pointless change...spoken like a true old person, Blackhawk. :)
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range

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Re: Windows 9

Post by Smoove_B » Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:22 pm

HP believes in us "old folks"...

Where's Lawbeef to tell us how HP stock is doing now?

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Re: Windows 9

Post by Blackhawk » Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:28 pm

RunningMn9 wrote:
JCC wrote:There is no reason I would trade a mouse/keyboard interface for a touchscreen interface on a desktop PC.
Ummm...you don't have to. My keyboard and mouse still work...

As for pointless change...spoken like a true old person, Blackhawk. :)
Grumble grumble.

Maybe we can get Microsoft to reinvent book indexes for us. Alphabetical works well enough, but it could always be snazzier and hey - the alphabet - how last century is that?

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Re: Windows 9

Post by Kraken » Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:57 am

Smoove_B wrote:HP believes in us "old folks"...

Where's Lawbeef to tell us how HP stock is doing now?
As of a couple months ago Dell was still offering Win 7 machines as well. Maybe only us old folks are still buying real computers.

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Re: Windows 9

Post by RunningMn9 » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:25 am

Kraken wrote:As of a couple months ago Dell was still offering Win 7 machines as well. Maybe only us old folks are still buying real computers.
Yeah, it's a good bet that desktop PCs are mostly being purchased by old people. Young people are buying laptop/tablet hybrids or MacBooks.
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range

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Re: Windows 9

Post by LordMortis » Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:07 am

Kraken wrote:
Smoove_B wrote:HP believes in us "old folks"...

Where's Lawbeef to tell us how HP stock is doing now?
As of a couple months ago Dell was still offering Win 7 machines as well. Maybe only us old folks are still buying real computers.
Dell definitely are. Lenovo had pretty much discontinued 7 until the new round of computers came out in November when 7 was made available on pretty much all business machines again but also not only made their home machines exclusively 8. You can't get drivers to remove 8 and put 7 on them anymore.

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Windows 10

Post by Isgrimnur » Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:43 pm

Make that Windows 10
But on September 30, during a preview event for that operating system, Microsoft officials took the wraps off the new name, which is Windows 10.

During the Microsoft planning and early development process, Windows 10 was codenamed "Threshold." That codename, like a number of recent Microsoft ones, came from Microsoft's Halo franchise.
...
But Microsoft went instead with Windows 10 because they wanted to signify that the coming Windows release would be the last "major" Windows update. Going forward, Microsoft is planning to make regular, smaller updates to the Windows 10 codebase, rather than pushing out new major updates years apart. Windows 10 will have a common codebase across multiple screen sizes, with the UI tailored to work on those devices.

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Re: Windows 9, er, 10.

Post by wonderpug » Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:54 pm

Never another major PS release, eh? That's some confidence!

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Re: Windows 9, er, 10.

Post by Canuck » Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:12 pm

Since they're copying the way Apple does things with OSX they might as well go ahead and call it Windows X.

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Re: Windows 9, er, 10.

Post by xwraith » Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:44 pm

I'm playing with it now in a VM, not quite sure what to make of it yet.
I forgot to call it "a box of pure malevolent evil, a purveyor of
insidious insanity, an eldritch manifestation that would make Bill
Gates let out a low whistle of admiration," but it's all those, too.
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Re: Windows 9, er, 10.

Post by RunningMn9 » Wed Oct 01, 2014 9:03 pm

xwraith wrote:I'm playing with it now in a VM, not quite sure what to make of it yet.
Which VM?
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range

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Re: Windows 9, er, 10.

Post by xwraith » Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:11 pm

I'm using the latest VMWare Workstation Beta. Though it expires in a couple of days.
I forgot to call it "a box of pure malevolent evil, a purveyor of
insidious insanity, an eldritch manifestation that would make Bill
Gates let out a low whistle of admiration," but it's all those, too.
-- David Gerard, Re: [Mediawiki-l] Wikitext grammar, 2010.08.06

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Re: Windows 9, er, 10.

Post by Zaxxon » Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:15 pm

I'm playing with it in a Hyper-V environment. The Start Menu feels like what they should have gone with in the first place-an upgraded version of the 7 menu customizable with as many or few live tiles as you like.

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Re: Windows 9, er, 10.

Post by Isgrimnur » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:16 pm

Mashable
Windows' biggest transformation in years is happening right before our eyes. More than 1 million people downloaded the Windows 10 Preview, and the company reports that nearly half a million are actively using it. By most measures, this — and all that Microsoft revealed in the business-focused event last September — is only a preview of what's to come in Windows world.
...
On Wednesday, the company will finally reveal much of what it has planned.
...
Microsoft will likely reiterate the return of the Start Menu in Windows 10 and reveal progress it has made since last year. After the September preview release, the company has released one additional build and a handful of necessary bug fixes. However, I suspect Microsoft will spend more time explaining how the traditional desktop can be made touch-friendly.
...
This is supposed to be the consumer-focused event, so I wouldn’t expect too much of a deep dive during the live-streamed demo. On the other hand, Microsoft will probably talk about support for a wide range of hardware configurations, from the cheapest $250 laptop to the most powerful gaming rig. DirectX 12, which will ship with Windows 10, is clear proof Microsoft is not walking away from Windows as the best desktop gaming platform (something I’m sure Dell’s Alienware will be happy to hear). So don’t be surprised if we see a few Windows 10 gaming demos.

Everyone thinks Internet Explorer is about to become a second-class citizen in Windows 10, stepping aside for a completely new web browser codenamed "Spartan." This may be true. No matter what, Microsoft will spend time talking through its latest browser offering (which may have Cortana voice integration). There should also be time for demonstrating a new Outlook client.
...
As noted above, Xbox lead Phil Spencer will be on hand. He, too, will demonstrate how the Windows 10 ecosystem helps disparate systems connect to your Xbox One in the living room. Just what kind of benefit we’ll gain from this is not yet clear.

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Re: Windows 9, er, 10.

Post by tjg_marantz » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:45 pm

Pfft Alienware. Journalists need to stop referring to them as THE gaming laptops. They are royally screwing the pooch and will become second class in short order if they don't change their tune.
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Re: Windows 9, er, 10.

Post by $iljanus » Wed Jan 21, 2015 3:48 pm

Windows 10 free for the first year
Easily one of the most popular announcements, Microsoft said that Windows 10 will be a free upgrade to anyone using Windows 7 and up for the first year. That's a huge change from the way Windows has been licensed in the past. If you have Windows 7 (which we liked!) or higher, you can upgrade to Windows 10 without paying a dime. Microsoft even confirms that once you're upgraded, you'll get support for the lifetime of the product, so this isn't a trick where you'll have to pay after the first year. Windows Phone 8.1 users will also get a free upgrade, as well.
I can get behind that. Wait for a few months after release while they chase down bugs then upgrade my rock solid Win 7 to a hopefully rock solid Win 10.
tl;dr

Wise words of warning from Smoove B: Oh, how you all laughed when I warned you about the semen. Well, who's laughing now?

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