Windows 9, er, 10.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Aug 19, 2015 9:55 am

Or type 'programs and features' or 'uninstall' into Start to have it surfaced for you.

dbt1949 · Post by **dbt1949** » Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:18 am

I ended up (before I asked for help) typing it in and looking for it. I had just hoped there was an easier way. (as wonderpug showed)

Victoria Raverna · Post by **Victoria Raverna** » Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:27 pm

dbt1949 wrote:Where is the Add and Remove Programs feature at in Win 10?

Thanks!

Right click on the Start icon and then choose the first item in the menu (Programs and Features).

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Sun Aug 30, 2015 7:21 pm

I've decided to clear my drive and do a clean install of Win10 for a few reasons. I'm running the media creation tool to create a Win10 DVD now.

One thing I've heard about 'in the wild' is that Microsoft now enforces their OEM licensing. Like most people who make their own systems, I run (ran) an OEM version of Windows (7 in my case.) If you're upgrading to Win10 from an OEM version of Win7 or 8, Windows 10 will be tied to your motherboard. Upgrade it and Microsoft blocks that copy from being activated again. A new motherboard will now cost and extra $120 for a new copy of Windows.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Sun Aug 30, 2015 7:25 pm

Blackhawk wrote:I've decided to clear my drive and do a clean install of Win10 for a few reasons. I'm running the media creation tool to create a Win10 DVD now.

No, I'm not.

The media creation tool for making a Windows 10 DVD creates an image that won't fit on a DVD.

Anonymous Bosch · Post by **Anonymous Bosch** » Sun Aug 30, 2015 8:32 pm

Blackhawk wrote:
Blackhawk wrote:I've decided to clear my drive and do a clean install of Win10 for a few reasons. I'm running the media creation tool to create a Win10 DVD now.
No, I'm not.

The media creation tool for making a Windows 10 DVD creates an image that won't fit on a DVD.

If you have a sufficiently large USB flash drive, you can quickly and easily use Rufus to create a bootable USB drive from the ISO.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Sun Aug 30, 2015 8:35 pm

The tool has a USB drive option built in, which is what I used. I preferred not to, as I need the only flash drive I have in the mean time, and because I prefer to have a hard copy should I need it again in the future. Ah, well. I'll make it work!

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:28 am

Blackhawk wrote:One thing I've heard about 'in the wild' is that Microsoft now enforces their OEM licensing. Like most people who make their own systems, I run (ran) an OEM version of Windows (7 in my case.) If you're upgrading to Win10 from an OEM version of Win7 or 8, Windows 10 will be tied to your motherboard. Upgrade it and Microsoft blocks that copy from being activated again. A new motherboard will now cost and extra $120 for a new copy of Windows.

That stinks.

I've been running OEM Windows 7 for years, happily. No way am I binding my OS to a motherboard! My computer is due for an overhaul in the near future, and this sort of thing would have been a bit of a derail for that project. Good to know.

Victoria Raverna · Post by **Victoria Raverna** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:18 am

Paingod wrote:
Blackhawk wrote:One thing I've heard about 'in the wild' is that Microsoft now enforces their OEM licensing. Like most people who make their own systems, I run (ran) an OEM version of Windows (7 in my case.) If you're upgrading to Win10 from an OEM version of Win7 or 8, Windows 10 will be tied to your motherboard. Upgrade it and Microsoft blocks that copy from being activated again. A new motherboard will now cost and extra $120 for a new copy of Windows.
That stinks.

I've been running OEM Windows 7 for years, happily. No way am I binding my OS to a motherboard! My computer is due for an overhaul in the near future, and this sort of thing would have been a bit of a derail for that project. Good to know.

I think OEM version of Windows 7 also tied to a specific PC. So if you buy OEM version then it is only for one PC. If you change your PC, you are not supposed to install it on the new PC.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:56 am

That's been the policy since at least Windows 98. It has also something they've never bothered to pay attention to before. It was just another line in an EULA. Now it is something they've decided to start enforcing.

They're not wrong in enforcing their established policies, but it is a new practical limitation, as a lot (lot, lot, lot) of people who build their own systems have purchased OEM in the past, as there was no downside to doing so.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:29 pm

I installed it on the laptop last night. Got the BSOD during the first attempt. After a reboot it installed with no problems. Next up is the desktop.

JetFred · Post by **JetFred** » Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:42 pm

If no one is screaming that it broke all of their Steam games, I will probably try in a week or two after I swap out my video card.

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:53 pm

The only one I noticed an issue with was FSX. Dovetail released an update and it's working much better now.

Bad Demographic · Post by **Bad Demographic** » Sun Oct 18, 2015 3:44 pm

JetFred wrote:If no one is screaming that it broke all of their Steam games, I will probably try in a week or two after I swap out my video card.

In a weak moment I installed Windows 10. It had a lot of difficulties with my setup (which isn't all that odd), tried to fix itself, removed most of my apps (Steam, Steam games, print drivers, Office 2007, and bunches of others) and would not offer me the option of backing up to Windows 7. After many tears and swear words, I got most of what I wanted re-installed (except I don't have disks for Office 2007 so that's gone). And after talking to LordMortis at Octocon, I decided to re-install Windows 7. I'm much happier now.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:57 am

Finally had a pop up that notified me Win 10 was ready to go. I'm pretty sure the day before Thanksgiving is exactly not the time I want to upgrade my PC O/S, but thanks. Clicked on the "No thanks" or "Not now" at which point it tells me Win 10 is now installing.

So yeah. They need to fix that because doing the exact opposite of what I just selected doesn't instill confidence in me that your new O/S is something I want to engage in.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:17 am

Smoove_B wrote:So yeah. They need to fix that because doing the exact opposite of what I just selected doesn't instill confidence in me that your new O/S is something I want to engage in.

Aside from opposite message boxes, their new OS is something that you want to engage in. Once your old man fears are dislodged and you realize that there's no reason to be computing like it's 1995.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:21 am

Blackhawk wrote:That's been the policy since at least Windows 98. It has also something they've never bothered to pay attention to before. It was just another line in an EULA. Now it is something they've decided to start enforcing.

My understanding is that it was always enforced. If you tried to install the same OEM copy on a new set of hardware, the activation would fail if enough hardware pieces were changed (I think that it's more than just the motherboard, because motherboards break). When the activation fails, you call them and tell them your sad tale (of breaking motherboards) and they flip a bit and allow activation.

I want to say that I've even had to do this before, when reusing a key on a rebuild while I was in between MSDN subscriptions.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:22 am

RunningMn9 wrote:
Blackhawk wrote:That's been the policy since at least Windows 98. It has also something they've never bothered to pay attention to before. It was just another line in an EULA. Now it is something they've decided to start enforcing.
My understanding is that it was always enforced. If you tried to install the same OEM copy on a new set of hardware, the activation would fail if enough hardware pieces were changed (I think that it's more than just the motherboard, because motherboards break). When the activation fails, you call them and tell them your sad tale (of breaking motherboards) and they flip a bit and allow activation.

I want to say that I've even had to do this before, when reusing a key on a rebuild while I was in between MSDN subscriptions.

Yep, I definitely ran into that during the XP era.

JetFred · Post by **JetFred** » Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:28 am

Smoove_B wrote:Finally had a pop up that notified me Win 10 was ready to go. I'm pretty sure the day before Thanksgiving is exactly not the time I want to upgrade my PC O/S, but thanks. Clicked on the "No thanks" or "Not now" at which point it tells me Win 10 is now installing.

So yeah. They need to fix that because doing the exact opposite of what I just selected doesn't instill confidence in me that your new O/S is something I want to engage in.

I find that mine now says it's downloading Win 10 no matter what Windows Update is actually doing.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:57 pm

Zaxxon wrote:
RunningMn9 wrote:
Blackhawk wrote:That's been the policy since at least Windows 98. It has also something they've never bothered to pay attention to before. It was just another line in an EULA. Now it is something they've decided to start enforcing.
My understanding is that it was always enforced. If you tried to install the same OEM copy on a new set of hardware, the activation would fail if enough hardware pieces were changed (I think that it's more than just the motherboard, because motherboards break). When the activation fails, you call them and tell them your sad tale (of breaking motherboards) and they flip a bit and allow activation.

I want to say that I've even had to do this before, when reusing a key on a rebuild while I was in between MSDN subscriptions.
Yep, I definitely ran into that during the XP era.

Odd, I never did. I ran (legitimate) OEM copies of XP and 7 across full system changes.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Nov 25, 2015 1:18 pm

Could maybe have had to do with the edition? That or my memory is hazy and it was the Win2k era. I distinctly recall calling in after a failed activation, mentioning that I'd nuked the insides of my machine, and them getting me activated somehow.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:50 pm

I've honestly got no idea. I know that I had OEM copies of XP and 7, that I installed it on multiple machines, and that they carried across multiple-component changes including mobos and video cards. I also know that I've never had to directly activate a copy of Windows.

I suppose it is possible that they changed how active they were on this during different eras of the OS lifespan.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:05 pm

How did you never have to directly activate Windows? Every edition since XP was set to auto blue screen after 30 days without activation?

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:39 pm

RunningMn9 wrote:How did you never have to directly activate Windows? Every edition since XP was set to auto blue screen after 30 days without activation?

I mean that I've never had to intervene and do it myself. The automated process has always handled it without having to make calls/contact Microsoft.

JetFred · Post by **JetFred** » Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:49 am

Well, thanks to the persistence of Windows Update and some limited and misleading options it was giving me, my son's laptop is now Win 10. At least it appears to have updated without a problem, so that's 2 out of 3 in the house.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:33 pm

JetFred wrote:Well, thanks to the persistence of Windows Update and some limited and misleading options it was giving me, my son's laptop is now Win 10. At least it appears to have updated without a problem, so that's 2 out of 3 in the house.

Computerworld.com reports that this is going to get worse, too. Microsoft apparently continues to release updates for Windows 7 and 8 designed to help push Windows 10 - and they plan to make it a "Recommended" update that you can accidentally kick off.

I've read that the move to give it away is an attempt to woo people into wanting the same OS between phones, tablets, and PC's ... with phone sales climbing crazily and desktop sales declining they have some fear of being left behind ... and the new revenue is supposed to come from selling premium services, cloud services, and scraping percentages from app developers ... but the fact that they want me on it so badly just pushes me further from it.

They should be doing what Apple's doing. Where I live, Apple has signed a contract with the state to supply tablets to kids - essentially making Apple junkies before they ever hit puberty.

JetFred · Post by **JetFred** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 8:08 pm

Tried again on the third PC, again it prepared for hours, then gave me error 80070005 with no other options or explanation. I am not doing a clean Win 7 install just to upgrade to Win 10. I'm going to try the SubInAcl tool.

(I'm back)

So I tried that, which is what comes up from Microsoft if you get that permissions error, and it ran for 30 min or so. Then it tried to prepare to update for another few hours and failed again with the same error. Perfect.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 4:33 pm

JetFred wrote:If no one is screaming that it broke all of their Steam games, I will probably try in a week or two after I swap out my video card.

Didn't break them all for me, but more than a handful won't start or play under Win 10. Even using run as admin and other attempted workarounds. Very frustrating. When a game like Dying Light won't even run (for *me*, a relatively new game), I get upset.

gilraen · Post by **gilraen** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 5:43 pm

After some careful consideration, I have now decided that my main PC will not get Win 10 until Microsoft announces end-of-life for Win 7 support. I have absolutely no reason to update otherwise. I already corrupted a harddrive, lost a video card and bricked a cell phone this year...I'd like to NOT have to spend the next year troubleshooting everything that breaks with the new Windows, I'm tired of stuff breaking!

I might experiment with my 2nd PC, it's hardly ever used for anything important.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 7:42 pm

gilraen wrote:end-of-life for Win 7 support

Lifecycle

End of extended support - January 14, 2020

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 7:55 pm

FYI, you don't have to do a clean install of 7 to go to 10. 7 keys will now activate on fresh 10 installs.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 10:56 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:
gilraen wrote:end-of-life for Win 7 support
Lifecycle

End of extended support - January 14, 2020

Maybe he meant "end of free upgrade period."

I got a little experience with Win 10 while setting up Wife's new laptop, but I still don't want to upgrade my machines until after xmas. First I'll do my gaming desktop, then if that goes well I'll do my business laptop. Like gilraen I just don't want to risk any computer headaches right now.

Hrdina · Post by **Hrdina** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 3:28 pm

I've got Windows 8, which I really dislike, but I still haven't felt motivated to take my free upgrade to 10. I signed up for it, and MS helpfully checks the "install" box every patch Tuesday so that I have to go and un-check it. I've just never felt that I had the time set aside to make sure that everything is ready for me to switch, and to fix everything afterwards. I guess I plan to do it before the 1 year expires, but I still have some time yet.

MonkeyFinger · Post by **MonkeyFinger** » Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:54 am

Hrdina wrote:I've got Windows 8, which I really dislike, but I still haven't felt motivated to take my free upgrade to 10. I signed up for it, and MS helpfully checks the "install" box every patch Tuesday so that I have to go and un-check it. I've just never felt that I had the time set aside to make sure that everything is ready for me to switch, and to fix everything afterwards. I guess I plan to do it before the 1 year expires, but I still have some time yet.

FWIW I went from 8.1 to 10 and it went through without a hiccup. Nothing to do to get ready and nothing to fix afterwards. YMMV as this was a newer PC, however even my older Samsung laptop upgraded pretty smoothly. It's also a pretty chatty update so you know what's going on all the time.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:57 pm

I really need to opt out of the preview build program.

My PC updated to the latest build last night and decided to just break my network card. So when I woke up this morning, no internet.

Luckily I had drivers already downloaded from an update I did a month ago, so a reinstall fixed everything, but it was still annoying. Thanks for telling me "ALL YOUR FILES WILL BE RIGHT WHERE YOU LEFT THEM" Windows 10, but I'm more concerned about you breaking my shit.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Fri Dec 25, 2015 10:55 pm

Windows 10 control panel (or "settings" as the cool kids are calling it now) does not seem to have Apply or OK buttons when you change something. Is it supposed to just know?

I keep resetting Wife's wireless card power management settings and said card works fine until she shuts down and restarts the machine, whereupon it goes back to its old ways. IDK if that's a Win 10 problem or if her laptop has some other utility that keeps undoing my changes.

Biyobi · Post by **Biyobi** » Sat Dec 26, 2015 6:55 am

Kraken wrote:Windows 10 control panel (or "settings" as the cool kids are calling it now) does not seem to have Apply or OK buttons when you change something. Is it supposed to just know?

I keep resetting Wife's wireless card power management settings and said card works fine until she shuts down and restarts the machine, whereupon it goes back to its old ways. IDK if that's a Win 10 problem or if her laptop has some other utility that keeps undoing my changes.

I run into this occasionally on my laptop, but not my desktop. Not sure what causes it. The lack of "Apply" button is a steal from the Mac way of doing things.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Sat Dec 26, 2015 2:23 pm

Biyobi wrote:
Kraken wrote:Windows 10 control panel (or "settings" as the cool kids are calling it now) does not seem to have Apply or OK buttons when you change something. Is it supposed to just know?

I keep resetting Wife's wireless card power management settings and said card works fine until she shuts down and restarts the machine, whereupon it goes back to its old ways. IDK if that's a Win 10 problem or if her laptop has some other utility that keeps undoing my changes.
I run into this occasionally on my laptop, but not my desktop. Not sure what causes it. The lack of "Apply" button is a steal from the Mac way of doing things.

That would explain why I don't like it and why it doesn't seem to be reliable. Her laptop was behaving itself very well all day yesterday; this morning it got back up to its old tricks. It insists on powering down the wireless card and ignores my orders to knock that off. An Apply button would at least assure me that it's getting the word.

Found some advice online about deleting an Intel wireless card program (or "app" as the cool kids are calling them now) that comes installed on Toshibas, so I guess I'll have to try that next.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:25 am

Carpet_pissr wrote:
JetFred wrote:If no one is screaming that it broke all of their Steam games, I will probably try in a week or two after I swap out my video card.
Didn't break them all for me, but more than a handful won't start or play under Win 10. Even using run as admin and other attempted workarounds. Very frustrating. When a game like Dying Light won't even run (for *me*, a relatively new game), I get upset.

Did you ever upgrade?

Of the approx. 12 games I have installed in the past 2 weeks, a good half of them don't start upon just clicking "play" under Win 10.

I have to either run as admin, or do some other fiddling to get it to work in a compatibility mode. And some of them just don't work at all even after trying the above (one in particular has a message from the developer saying that Win 10 was not supported while in development, so basically "sorry!" - and this is not an old game, maybe 2 years old).

Mostly these are indie games, that probably didn't have the budget for wide testing, so no big deal, but it is disappointing.

Also just noticing some quirky behavior that on a one off basis, I wouldn't comment on, but quite a few, in comparison to none from Win 7, makes me wonder if those are also 10 related.

I don't dislike the OS, but I am not a huge fan either at this point. It certainly boots and shuts down faster, but other than that, I was more than happy with Win 7. I am sure as patching continues, Win 10 will reach the same stability level as 7, but there are my thoughts in its current state (from a gamer's perspective).

JetFred · Post by **JetFred** » Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:49 am

I only managed to get my son's and my wife's laptops to upgrade. I run lots of different games on both of them, and have had a much higher first-try success rate than that. It must just be bad luck depending on which particular games you tried to run. Overall I don't think it's breaking half of the games.

I think an aggressive registry cleaner (that I will no longer use) is what broke my Win 7 so it won't upgrade no matter what I try.