Anyone have a lot of experience with these?
I actually have a decent amount of experience with VirtualBox, but it has some weaknesses.
I'm thinking of providing my kids with VM's so I can just refresh them from time to time. They do enough bad things that I'm tired of cleaning up constantly. Just nuking it from orbit is starting to look like an acceptable solution.
Any recommendations for home use? Has to be free.
Virtual Machines
Moderators: Bakhtosh, EvilHomer3k
-
Paingod
- Posts: 13135
- Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:58 am
Re: Virtual Machines
Vitrual machines tend to be pretty purpose-specific and you need to remote into them to use them, which may not be ideal for gaming. I mean, it's great for businesses that need control over the instances and places where you want to blow it away easily and replace it after testing something. You can't beat the recovery time of a virtual machine that goes down and is restored from the last backup.
Now, I could be wrong - maybe there is an easy way to run a virtual machine inside a host computer and have that virtual machine show up on the monitor without wrangling it through another layer. Maybe, but I've never seen it. Every virtual host I've set up has 100% control over the video output and you can't see the virtual machines inside until the boot process is done and you open the right app to view them. In all honesty, I've never even contemplated trying to get a virtual machine to be the primary output for a video card... so I may not be very helpful there.
This guy at a Reddit forum for Linux claims to have solved the problem of gaming from a virtual machine, but he's an advanced Linux user and it took him days to get it working.
While the virtual host software can be free, you do still need to make sure you have a Windows license to install there. That part isn't free.
However... if you're looking for a clean way to restore a computer to a known good configuration in a short period of time without mucking around with trying to use it remotely, a good image is all you need. I don't know that I'd trust a free imaging software suite in a pinch (you know, you might recover 30% of the computer and it'll refuse to finish the job until you pay $60 to buy a full license or something), but the paid versions are pretty inexpensive and can save mountains of headaches.
This list of imaging software options may be appealing. I've personally used O&O software and liked it, as well as WinISO and DaemonTools.
Now, I could be wrong - maybe there is an easy way to run a virtual machine inside a host computer and have that virtual machine show up on the monitor without wrangling it through another layer. Maybe, but I've never seen it. Every virtual host I've set up has 100% control over the video output and you can't see the virtual machines inside until the boot process is done and you open the right app to view them. In all honesty, I've never even contemplated trying to get a virtual machine to be the primary output for a video card... so I may not be very helpful there.
This guy at a Reddit forum for Linux claims to have solved the problem of gaming from a virtual machine, but he's an advanced Linux user and it took him days to get it working.
While the virtual host software can be free, you do still need to make sure you have a Windows license to install there. That part isn't free.
However... if you're looking for a clean way to restore a computer to a known good configuration in a short period of time without mucking around with trying to use it remotely, a good image is all you need. I don't know that I'd trust a free imaging software suite in a pinch (you know, you might recover 30% of the computer and it'll refuse to finish the job until you pay $60 to buy a full license or something), but the paid versions are pretty inexpensive and can save mountains of headaches.
This list of imaging software options may be appealing. I've personally used O&O software and liked it, as well as WinISO and DaemonTools.
Black Lives Matter
2021-01-20: The first good night's sleep I had in 4 years.
2021-01-20: The first good night's sleep I had in 4 years.
-
GreenGoo
- Posts: 42336
- Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
- Location: Ottawa, ON
Re: Virtual Machines
Most of the gaming for 2 of the kids is browser based.
OS licenses are covered.
I use clonezilla for disk and partition images. restoring a vm is faster, although if that weren't an option having images would be fine as well. And of course I'll have an image of the whole thing before I let the rats loose on the ship.
Thanks for the reddit link. I'll check it out.
One of the sticking points is that I'd prefer the kids be able to log into their vm directly, instead of login into the host and then the VM. Still, I can lock down their accounts so the only thing they can do on the host is start the vm and log into it. I'd just like something a little cleaner.
OS licenses are covered.
I use clonezilla for disk and partition images. restoring a vm is faster, although if that weren't an option having images would be fine as well. And of course I'll have an image of the whole thing before I let the rats loose on the ship.
Thanks for the reddit link. I'll check it out.
One of the sticking points is that I'd prefer the kids be able to log into their vm directly, instead of login into the host and then the VM. Still, I can lock down their accounts so the only thing they can do on the host is start the vm and log into it. I'd just like something a little cleaner.
-
Paingod
- Posts: 13135
- Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:58 am
Re: Virtual Machines
That's a hard one, then. Maybe someone else will have a better idea.
Virtual computers are amazingly fast to recover from the old image - just unmount the broken one, mount the a new copy of the good one, and you're done. Your kids computers will essentially become Thin Clients to themselves, which seems odd but could work.
If the quirks of trying to accomplish this don't bother you (launching the desktop after the desktop boots) then you've got a couple big options, and a lot of smaller ones.
I think Hyper-V is pretty easy to use overall, but you'll need to turn it on to use it. If you're using Windows 7. If you're using Windows 8. If you're using Windows 10. Once it's running you can simply select to create a new virtual computer and it works real slick and quick, but that new Windows install will crap out and demand a license after a while.
The virtual computer it creates is stored in the hard drive (occupying as much drive space as you allocated to it). Exporting it stores the entire virtual computer safely elsewhere, and then you can import it to recover it.
Virtual computers are amazingly fast to recover from the old image - just unmount the broken one, mount the a new copy of the good one, and you're done. Your kids computers will essentially become Thin Clients to themselves, which seems odd but could work.
If the quirks of trying to accomplish this don't bother you (launching the desktop after the desktop boots) then you've got a couple big options, and a lot of smaller ones.
I think Hyper-V is pretty easy to use overall, but you'll need to turn it on to use it. If you're using Windows 7. If you're using Windows 8. If you're using Windows 10. Once it's running you can simply select to create a new virtual computer and it works real slick and quick, but that new Windows install will crap out and demand a license after a while.
The virtual computer it creates is stored in the hard drive (occupying as much drive space as you allocated to it). Exporting it stores the entire virtual computer safely elsewhere, and then you can import it to recover it.
Black Lives Matter
2021-01-20: The first good night's sleep I had in 4 years.
2021-01-20: The first good night's sleep I had in 4 years.
-
Isgrimnur
- Posts: 82290
- Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
- Location: Chookity pok
- Contact:
Re: Virtual Machines
You might consider having the equivalent of a live CD or a USB key for each kid that will allow them a sandbox to play in. Since it's browser-based gaming, there shouldn't be an issue with saved games.
That would allow you to lock out the user accounts on the main OS, leaving them to insert their personal USB when they want to do things.
That would allow you to lock out the user accounts on the main OS, leaving them to insert their personal USB when they want to do things.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
-
hitbyambulance
- Posts: 10261
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:51 am
- Location: Map Ref 47.6°N 122.35°W
- Contact:
Re: Virtual Machines
this is a better idea, in my opinion. and if they're just doing browser-based stuff, what does it matter what OS they use?Isgrimnur wrote:You might consider having the equivalent of a live CD or a USB key for each kid that will allow them a sandbox to play in. Since it's browser-based gaming, there shouldn't be an issue with saved games.
That would allow you to lock out the user accounts on the main OS, leaving them to insert their personal USB when they want to do things.
-
Anonymous Bosch
- Posts: 10514
- Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 6:09 pm
- Location: Northern California [originally from the UK]
Re: Virtual Machines
Indeed, if their activities are mostly browser-based, there are several Linux distributions specifically designed to be kid-friendly that can be used from a Live CD/USB flash drive.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." — P. J. O'Rourke
-
Punisher
- Posts: 4066
- Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:05 pm
Re: Virtual Machines
Another option is the program Deep Freeze.
It basically does what it says. It freezes your system at what ever point you want. Usually after a clean install. You can also assign unfrozen folders such as pictures, documents, etc... that it leaves alone.
You could go into the OS, delete whatever folders Windows let's you and reboot back to the way it was... I haven't seen anything that could break it at my old job short of a hardware failure... We even purposely infected a few machines with the worst things we could find to the point that the PC was useless, then reboot and everything was gone.
It basically does what it says. It freezes your system at what ever point you want. Usually after a clean install. You can also assign unfrozen folders such as pictures, documents, etc... that it leaves alone.
You could go into the OS, delete whatever folders Windows let's you and reboot back to the way it was... I haven't seen anything that could break it at my old job short of a hardware failure... We even purposely infected a few machines with the worst things we could find to the point that the PC was useless, then reboot and everything was gone.
All yourLightning Bolts are Belong to Us
-
xwraith
- Posts: 1085
- Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 6:42 pm
Re: Virtual Machines
If you were ambitious you could look into centralizing the storage/processing part (ie have one powerful server) and push dumb clients out to the kids. That's where you would probably be using locked down VMs.
You are an expert in VDI, right?
You are an expert in VDI, right?
I forgot to call it "a box of pure malevolent evil, a purveyor of
insidious insanity, an eldritch manifestation that would make Bill
Gates let out a low whistle of admiration," but it's all those, too.
-- David Gerard, Re: [Mediawiki-l] Wikitext grammar, 2010.08.06
insidious insanity, an eldritch manifestation that would make Bill
Gates let out a low whistle of admiration," but it's all those, too.
-- David Gerard, Re: [Mediawiki-l] Wikitext grammar, 2010.08.06
-
Arcanis
- Posts: 7235
- Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 12:15 pm
- Location: Lafayette, LA
- Contact:
Re: Virtual Machines
I run a mini data center on my work laptop using Hyper V, my lab environment, so that is a good free choice. If you are dedicating a machine to it you can install a copy of server 2012r2 that is Hyper V only that is also free, sorry MS makes the link almost impossible to find. You also haveVMware as a bare metal option as well, since they have a free version too.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."--George Orwell
-
GreenGoo
- Posts: 42336
- Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
- Location: Ottawa, ON
Re: Virtual Machines
I'm decent in virtualbox. All I know of vdi is converting their disk images to vmdk.xwraith wrote:If you were ambitious you could look into centralizing the storage/processing part (ie have one powerful server) and push dumb clients out to the kids. That's where you would probably be using locked down VMs.
You are an expert in VDI, right?
I'm not buying more hardware, but thanks for the suggestion.
-
GreenGoo
- Posts: 42336
- Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
- Location: Ottawa, ON
Re: Virtual Machines
Live CDs aren't going to cut it. The activities are *mostly* browser based, but even that requires saved data in some instances.
Something like a chromebook might do the job, but I don't want to spend any more money if I don't have to. If/when a VM gets compromised I'll just replace it with a previously saved image of it.
Something like a chromebook might do the job, but I don't want to spend any more money if I don't have to. If/when a VM gets compromised I'll just replace it with a previously saved image of it.
-
GreenGoo
- Posts: 42336
- Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
- Location: Ottawa, ON
Re: Virtual Machines
Thanks. I might look at a windows solution, but for personal reasons I'm leaning towards linux. Hell, depending on requirements (which are mostly, but not completely nailed down yet) the VM's could be linux as well.Arcanis wrote:I run a mini data center on my work laptop using Hyper V, my lab environment, so that is a good free choice. If you are dedicating a machine to it you can install a copy of server 2012r2 that is Hyper V only that is also free, sorry MS makes the link almost impossible to find. You also haveVMware as a bare metal option as well, since they have a free version too.
One problem is that activex still exists in places that cater to kids.
-
hitbyambulance
- Posts: 10261
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:51 am
- Location: Map Ref 47.6°N 122.35°W
- Contact:
Re: Virtual Machines
doesn't have to be CD/DVD/BD - you can use live USB keys/flash drives with defined amounts of writeable storage space.GreenGoo wrote:Live CDs aren't going to cut it. The activities are *mostly* browser based, but even that requires saved data in some instances.
and yeah, Linux VMs would cut the potential malware issues drastically.