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Desktop PC Path Questions - Rig turned 5 in Sep

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Yojimbo
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Desktop PC Path Questions - Rig turned 5 in Sep

Post by Yojimbo » Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:41 pm

My current desktop rig was a 2013 self-build with a 2015 SSD upgrade and its starting to show it’s age a bit:

CPU: Intel Core i7-3770K Ivy Bridge Quad-Core 3.5GHz (3.9GHz Turbo) LGA 1155 77W BX80637I73770K
MB: ASUS P8Z77-I Deluxe LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Mini ITX Intel Motherboard with USB BIOS
Video Card: ASUS GeForce GTX 690 DirectX 11 GTX690-4GD5 4GB 512-Bit GDDR5
RAM: Ballistix Tactical 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3L 1600 (PC3L 12800) Low Profile (Newegg shell shocker I think)
OS SSD: OCZ ARC 100 2.5" 240GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (added later)
Data HDD: Someone’s 2TB SATA (I don’t remember anymore)
PSU: Seasonic SS-660XP2 ATX 12V / EPS 12V, 660W, 80 PLUS PLATINUM

A few comments about this build:
It has help up amazingly well for a 5-year-old system. My PSU was barely adequate at the time because of that video card.
I would like to upgrade this rig but with 2 kids at Uni I am not exactly swimming in green right now. I would value any comments on the following courses of action:

1. Replace the Video card only. GTX 1070 used 1070 from ebay for $250 or so (I have been watching these auctions this week). A newer card will draw half or less of the watts that my current 690 is pulling and have much better performance if I am reading correctly. Then use that 1070 in any new rig I build in the next year or so.

2. Replace the motherboard, and video card for $700-1000k to get ready for a new CPU “someday”. Would need to replace my RAM also depending on MB setup. I don't think this would be good due to the 1155 vs newer 1151 pin-out; any board I would want would not support a 9th gen i7 CPU upgrade next year. Any 1155-style MB would not be that much of an upgrade - I think [citation needed].

3. New rig all around: $1500 (more?). Build or buy (I’ve built more than a few over the years but I am by no means current – I would have to use a guide). Whatever I do I am thinking about a fresh install of Win10 (Win7 today). Even if I don’t upgrade I need to re-install Steam (its taking like 5min of HD “chatter” to start Steam - most all of my games are on the spinning data HD.

I am not really a big FPS gamer but I have enjoyed a the long life this setup has given me (it has been nice not to be upgrading my setup ever 10 months for a while). Getting 5.5 years (almost) out of this system has made the 2k I spent seem like a good investment.

A few minor things are really attractive about the new MBs: On board 10Gb Ethernet would rock for in-home files moves to/from to a NAS (fictional NAS this point). The onboard (MB attached) M.2 SSDs drives are really cool to me: I have several 500G SSDs around from laptop upgrades that I ended up eating the cost of. I've started stalking the daily deals and system build sites and I can tell that I may be using part of my New Years vacation on a build.

Thanks in advance for any options. The last time I thought I was a hardware expert IDE's were new tech.

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Re: Desktop PC Path Questions - Rig turned 5 in Sep

Post by Isgrimnur » Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:51 pm

$~1500 got my wife a Cyberpower rig as close to identical to mine as I could. Mine was ~$300 more back in January.

i7-7800X
16GB DDR4
X299 RAIDER ATX motherboard
800 Watt PSU
GTX 1070 8GB
500GB SSD, 2 TB spinny

I'm sure they'd have some similar deals headed into the holidays.
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Re: Desktop PC Path Questions - Rig turned 5 in Sep

Post by Yojimbo » Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:17 pm

Thank you, its good to know that $1,500.00 is realistic.

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Re: Desktop PC Path Questions - Rig turned 5 in Sep

Post by hitbyambulance » Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:27 pm

replacing just the video card will buy you a lot of time. i'm stilllll using a 9 year old i7-960 CPU that is working just fine, thanks to the GTX 970 i installed (fourth video card upgrade during the lifetime of this machine).

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Re: Desktop PC Path Questions - Rig turned 5 in Sep

Post by JCC » Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:52 pm

I am not sure upgrading a 690 to a 1070 is going to be a huge leap. Yes, it will use less power but it's only one slot up in the Tom's Hardware hierarchy. I believe the general rule of thumb is if you don't move up 2 slots it's not going to be a huge difference.

I would suggest you may want to consider upgrading your data drive to an SSD data drive. That will cost you less money than the 1070. (Though not cheap)

Or you may just want to upgrade the CPU/MB/Memory and wait until all the Geforce 2XXX cards are out.

If/when you build a new PC, get a 80+ gold power supply.

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Re: Desktop PC Path Questions - Rig turned 5 in Sep

Post by Yojimbo » Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:00 pm

That is good to hear.

I just lost an ebay auction for a GTX 1070 (I stopped at $225 - card sold at $240). I think I will keep trying until I win one and start there. I think a lot people are selling off cards after an upgrade combined with some mining operations shutting down. Its nice the see the tide move in the other direction on GPU prices for a change.

My theory is that a 1070 would be fine even if I did get a new MB/CPU some time next year.
Last edited by Yojimbo on Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Desktop PC Path Questions - Rig turned 5 in Sep

Post by Yojimbo » Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:04 pm

JCC wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:52 pm
I am not sure upgrading a 690 to a 1070 is going to be a huge leap. Yes, it will use less power but it's only one slot up in the Tom's Hardware hierarchy. I believe the general rule of thumb is if you don't move up 2 slots it's not going to be a huge difference.

I would suggest you may want to consider upgrading your data drive to an SSD data drive. That will cost you less money than the 1070. (Though not cheap)

Or you may just want to upgrade the CPU/MB/Memory and wait until all the Geforce 2XXX cards are out.

If/when you build a new PC, get a 80+ gold power supply.
Oh, I was operating under the assumption that 690 to 1070 would be a worthy upgrade (in fact I've already tried to snag a used one on ebay). I will try some more "research" (Google searching) on 690 v 1070 metrics.

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Re: Desktop PC Path Questions - Rig turned 5 in Sep

Post by Isgrimnur » Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:20 pm

JCC wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:52 pm
I am not sure upgrading a 690 to a 1070 is going to be a huge leap. Yes, it will use less power but it's only one slot up in the Tom's Hardware hierarchy. I believe the general rule of thumb is if you don't move up 2 slots it's not going to be a huge difference.
My memory says three, but the current page does not have a suggestion against which to prove either alternative.
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Re: Desktop PC Path Questions - Rig turned 5 in Sep

Post by JCC » Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:07 am

For what it's worth the Passmark charts paint a different picture on the difference between 690 and newer cards. (ie. these listings indicate a big boost by upgrading)

https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/

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Re: Desktop PC Path Questions - Rig turned 5 in Sep

Post by Carpet_pissr » Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:00 pm

You currently have a Geforce GTX 690?

If that is the case, I have no idea what benchmarks you guys are looking at, but its performance is far, far below a 1070. Is there a Radeon with that number maybe?

FWIW I did an upgrade this past summer, but chose to 'only' replace the mobo, memory and CPU. Just doing that made a significant and noticeable speed boost in the games I play (and of course all around snap of the system outside of games). I wasn't expecting that, because the graphics card is the biggest factor in speeding up games. I guess my mobo and CPU were so old that I was able to pull off an upset! :P My motherboard was at least as old as yours, so you would likely have similar results.

I recommend doing the upgrade incrementally if money is tight. I am running a Geforce 760 currently, and when I did my upgrade, chose not to do the video card at the time since that was right in the middle of all the crazy high prices for memory and video cards due to Bitcoiners. I will likely be getting the video part of the upgrade in the nesxt several months now that prices on cards are getting reasonable again.

I would definitely not make any decisions based around the possibility of re-using a motherboard for future CPU's. I think that is pretty much a fallacy since the formats change so quickly. Especially for someone like you and me who keep their gear for a loooong time, relatively. You also lose a LOT of the performance upgrades that the new chipsets bring by going that route.

If you think prices are low enough to jump into a video card now, that's probably the best option if your primary goal is to get better gaming performance. Then when you have more cash available, do the rest of the upgrade (mobo/CPU/memory). Personally, I think we will see more of a return to price normalcy in the coming months for video cards, so I continue to wait.

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Re: Desktop PC Path Questions - Rig turned 5 in Sep

Post by Yojimbo » Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:44 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:00 pm
You currently have a Geforce GTX 690?

If that is the case, I have no idea what benchmarks you guys are looking at, but its performance is far, far below a 1070. Is there a Radeon with that number maybe?
Yes, I'm running a GTX 690 today. It was way ahead of the pack 5 years ago but it struggles in top-end games at 1440 and above now. I'm driving 2 x 29" Ultrawides (an old 29EA73-P from the pre-order a newer LG version from Frye's). I think the modest step up to a 1070 would be worthwhile to me (opinions across the spectrum are very much appreciated). I read most of last evening and this morning from 4 to 6am about moving from a 690 to a 1070 and I think its worthwhile for anyone who is gaming at 1440 and over IF they can score a cheap card. If I was paying $500 for a GTX 1070 I would be looking at a 1080 for a bit more or even waiting for the new 2*** cards.

I'm winning* an eBay auction for for a GTX 1070 $190 right now. I guess the miners have mined out all of the easy money and now they are selling off lots and lots of GPU farms. I have had 3 different second chance offers over the last few days from people who "have lots of cards". I never trust these situations because of the shill factor (the possibility of a seller driving up their own goods then offering them for sale at your last bid - inflated by competing against the false bidder(s)). I think the $220 used GTX 1070 is possible** and a person could probably buy all they want at $250 right now.

* "Winning" is defined as the euphoric pseudo-state that exists after I bid but before I am sniped in the last 3 seconds of the auction only to end up being a "loser".
** This is a lot of bold talk from a guy who has not done it yet. Keep in mind that in 1984 I decided that; "I could probably ask out Loni Anderson". I was not ever able to secure a date with Miss Anderson and when she was seen with Burt Reynolds I decided to focus on my studies.

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Re: Desktop PC Path Questions - Rig turned 5 in Sep

Post by Yojimbo » Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:04 pm

JCC wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:52 pm
If/when you build a new PC, get a 80+ gold power supply.
Thank you for this - I had a pleasant time reading about the various certifications on PSUs and the idea of a "voluntary certification program" makes me happy.

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Re: Desktop PC Path Questions - Rig turned 5 in Sep

Post by Carpet_pissr » Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:15 pm

Yojimbo wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:44 pm
Carpet_pissr wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:00 pm
You currently have a Geforce GTX 690?

If that is the case, I have no idea what benchmarks you guys are looking at, but its performance is far, far below a 1070. Is there a Radeon with that number maybe?
I'm winning* an eBay auction for for a GTX 1070 $190 right now. I guess the miners have mined out all of the easy money and now they are selling off lots and lots of GPU farms. I have had 3 different second chance offers over the last few days from people who "have lots of cards". I never trust these situations because of the shill factor (the possibility of a seller driving up their own goods then offering them for sale at your last bid - inflated by competing against the false bidder(s)). I think the $220 used GTX 1070 is possible** and a person could probably buy all they want at $250 right now.
I would be wary of buying a card that has likely been used in a Bitcoin mining farm. Like buying a car with 120K, hard miles on it! :D

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Re: Desktop PC Path Questions - Rig turned 5 in Sep

Post by Yojimbo » Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:06 pm

And Daehawk just reported $375 new 1070s at Newegg.

I would feel like a fool if I "saved" $150 but ended up with a DOA GPU.

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Re: Desktop PC Path Questions - Rig turned 5 in Sep

Post by Isgrimnur » Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:08 pm

Consider it the cost of a warranty.
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Re: Desktop PC Path Questions - Rig turned 5 in Sep

Post by Yojimbo » Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:41 pm

Maybe it's good that I keep missing these at 200-230.

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Re: Desktop PC Path Questions - Rig turned 5 in Sep

Post by Isgrimnur » Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:48 pm

When my furnace went out, the repair was going to cost close to $2k. The system was original, 15+ years old for a device that are currently manufactured to last 10. He told me that, even if I spent the $2k for the repair, there was no guarantee that something else wouldn't break before he got off the block, necessitating even further repair expenditures.

I spent the $6k for a new system with a 10-year warranty.

If you buy a used card for more than half of a new one, it installs properly, works fine, and then dies before Easter, where does that leave you?

It's a capital expenditure. Assume another 5 years of good gaming with a new card. Even if you only get to use it for it's strongest purpose on two days a week, that's 500+ days of premium gaming. At $500, that would be a dollar a day of gaming for that part.

That's less than any decent trip to an arcade back in the day.
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Re: Desktop PC Path Questions - Rig turned 5 in Sep

Post by Z-Corn » Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:54 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:48 pm
At $500, that would be a dollar a day of gaming for that part.

That's less than any decent trip to an arcade back in the day.
:clap:

Jesus Christ dude, I thought I was a Master Enabler. I suspect I may be in the company of a fellow traveller in a hedonistic sense of the phrase.

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Re: Desktop PC Path Questions - Rig turned 5 in Sep

Post by Daehawk » Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:25 pm

Yojimbo wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:06 pm
And Daehawk just reported $375 new 1070s at Newegg.

I would feel like a fool if I "saved" $150 but ended up with a DOA GPU.
GTX 1070 ti at that.
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Re: Desktop PC Path Questions - Rig turned 5 in Sep

Post by Isgrimnur » Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:01 pm

Z-Corn wrote:
Isgrimnur wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:48 pm
At $500, that would be a dollar a day of gaming for that part.

That's less than any decent trip to an arcade back in the day.
:clap:

Jesus Christ dude, I thought I was a Master Enabler. I suspect I may be in the company of a fellow traveller in a hedonistic sense of the phrase.
:D

I do like to play devil’s advocate. Some days are more devilish than others.
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Re: Desktop PC Path Questions - Rig turned 5 in Sep

Post by Daehawk » Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:54 am

Looks like the regular GTX 1070 is around $299
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Re: Desktop PC Path Questions - Rig turned 5 in Sep

Post by Yojimbo » Sat Dec 22, 2018 10:47 am

Update: After a week and a half of failed bidding I won a 1070 (no ti) on eBay. The card in sojourning in Ohio at the moment on its way to me after Christmas.

I ended up paying just over $200 but somehow I won the one auction with shipping charges for another $16. I used some eBay credits that I gleaned from failed guaranteed delivery dates (one "advantage" to living in the sticks). I just can't justify spending money on a whole new rig right now.

I DID start a bin (more of a square laundry hamper) where I plan to accumulate parts towards a mid-2019 build (it only has a 500Gb SSD in it right now) and a Newegg wish list. Funny story; I showed my 22-year son old my wish list and he ordered those parts that morning (he is building it out right now in my dining room). He needs a machine for his new apartment (leaving the one he uses now for his siblings). So at least I didn't pass on my "cheap to the point of taking risks" gene to him.

I appreciate all of the advice but having spent like $800 on old books this year (late 1800's history and fiction mostly) I need to start 2019 as flush as I can.

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Re: Desktop PC Path Questions - Rig turned 5 in Sep

Post by Yojimbo » Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:00 am

Follow up: $200 GTX 1070 arrived and works so far.

I traded some unused sporting equipment for a 2TB SSD to replace my data drive.

I am pleased with both the card and the SSD installed. I will probably get another year out of this setup if I want.

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