Morrowind the mess

dfs · Post by **dfs** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 3:52 pm

I'm having trouble.

Some time ago I was running a moded morrowind without the expansions and I reached the point where I said...I'll wait for a cheap versions of the expansions when I have hardware that can run this puppy easily. Recently that day came.

So, I remover morrowind from my PC. Did a clean install with both expansions. Worked my way down the great DVD looking forward to starting afresh.

Ran Testool and the level list resequencer. Fired up Morrowind and ...got an error. Clicked yes to all and ....ended up at my desktop.

Scaled back on the mods till nothing was left but the expansions, but the error stayed.

Reinstalled the expansions. Ran testool and the resequencer with no mods. Things fired up fine.

At this point any mod I enable seems to hang testool. One mod, 180 mods...it doesn't seem to matter, when I click on "Just fix it" the program eats resources till it crashes.

....ideas?

Kelric · Post by **Kelric** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 3:54 pm

Out of the blue, but try a fresh install of testool. Probably won't do crap and I'm not the right person to be answering this (paging Blackhawk, resident Morrowind master) but it's worth a shot.

JSL · Post by **JSL** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 3:59 pm

Dfs, after you added the new hardware did you completely reformat your PC as well? I doesn't seem like you did, so I am guessing it sounds like an old driver is causing problems or the old install of Morrowind and the mods are causing problems.

Blackhawk might have more light to shed on this topic though.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 4:07 pm

dfs wrote:Ran Testool and the level list resequencer. Fired up Morrowind and ...got an error. Clicked yes to all and ....ended up at my desktop.

I'm not sure - I'd have to know the error.

dfs wrote: At this point any mod I enable seems to hang testool. One mod, 180 mods...it doesn't seem to matter, when I click on "Just fix it" the program eats resources till it crashes.

....ideas?

I've never experienced that. I'll look around.

Hipolito · Post by **Hipolito** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 4:46 pm

When you uninstalled Morrowind, did you also manually delete the C:\Program Files\Bethesda Softworks subdirectory? When I had uninstalled the game to do a fresh install with the DVD plugins, I found that the subdirectory and all my old mods were still there. Your older installations could be interfering with your newer one.

dfs · Post by **dfs** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:00 pm

Hipolito you could be right on the mark. I'll try that.

Jeff. I don't think the new video card is the problem, but something to do with my mod sequence. Once I had the game and the expansion paks stable, I was able to fire up the game and get the prison ship.

Blackhawk, I've been so trained to ignore errors on loading esp files it never crossed my mind that it would be important. I just read that again and realize how stupid it must sound, but ...there you go. Like I said I was able to go back to a clean install and thought I was OK.

Will try backtracking and nuking the whold subdirectory tree from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:34 pm

Eh, I wouldn't have looked, either.

Also, and this is a silly one, but make sure you install in the proper order - Morrowind, Tribunal, Bloodmoon. There have been issues from installing Bloodmoon before Tribunal.

JSL · Post by **JSL** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 6:25 pm

dfs wrote:Will try backtracking and nuking the whold subdirectory tree from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

Just make sure that your dropship doesn't crash and burn on you before you get back into orbit.

Kagath · Post by **Kagath** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 7:03 pm

DAMNIT! Stop talking about this game! I have enough stuff in my backlog without getting the $20 GotY edition at Target that has been tempting me! Argh.

dfs · Post by **dfs** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:44 am

this is a silly one, but make sure you install in the proper order - Morrowind, Tribunal, Bloodmoon. There have been issues from installing Bloodmoon before Tribunal.

It wasn't quite that stupid, but it was pretty close. I installed all three products and THEN applied the patches. (Don't look, that's not what your directions say to do) Nuking it from orbit and reinstalling made it much better.

One last query...
Is there an east way to make the menus/icons bigger at a higher screen resolution? I really liked the scale of those things at 800X600, but boy does the game look better at a higher resolution.

Gonna work on an unsociable female bosmer mage/thief.
Arrows, support spells and stealth. It's my way.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 12:20 pm

One last query...
Is there an east way to make the menus/icons bigger at a higher screen resolution? I really liked the scale of those things at 800X600, but boy does the game look better at a higher resolution.

FPS optimizer. 'misc/2' tab, at the bottom. It magnifies the interface, although you will have to reposition the windows afterward. The only problem is that it magnifies in-world names, too. It makes them more readable, but sometimes, if you are really close, pushes them off the top of the screen. IE - if you walk up to a door, the name will be above the top of the screen and you'll have to look up to see it.

Discalced · Post by **Discalced** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 3:01 pm

Anyone still playing this game should have installed a MMORPG by now.

Kelric · Post by **Kelric** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 3:17 pm

Discalced wrote:Anyone still playing this game should have installed a MMORPG by now.

Not if they don't want to pay $20 every month in addition to the original buying price.

(And I didn't start playing this game until this month or so anyways.)

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 3:48 pm

Discalced wrote:Anyone still playing this game should have installed a MMORPG by now.

There's a rather huge difference between a MMORPG and a RPG. Specifically, all the other people running around (and the monthly fee, of course). Some of those people will make the game more fun, some of them will deliberately try to make the game less fun, and all of them change the dynamic incredibly. Just because somebody likes RPGs doesn't mean they'll enjoy MMORPGs, nor does the MMO part automatically make them superior.

I spent much of my 10 months playing WoW running around solo. In many ways, I'd have been just as happy (sometimes happier) in an offline RPG that had many of the same elements as WoW.

Sith

dfs · Post by **dfs** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:00 pm

FPS optimizer. 'misc/2' tab, at the bottom.

You are the man.

I like your taste in music too.

Kelric · Post by **Kelric** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:02 pm

Which reminds me, anyone have a way for me to give a listen to some of the stuff Blackhawk threw on that DVD? I need more music in this game, you start getting sick of hearing the same songs twice a 'day.'

dfs · Post by **dfs** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:56 pm

Oh..I know that one.

Program Files/Bethesda/Morrowind/Data Files/Music

Throw your MP3's in there.

edit...
doh...

it's more like
Program Files/Bethesda/Morrowind/Data Files/Music/explore or something.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 6:54 pm

Kelric wrote:
Discalced wrote:Anyone still playing this game should have installed a MMORPG by now.
Not if they don't want to pay $20 every month in addition to the original buying price.

Amen to that! Neverwinter and modules are about as close as I'll get to MMORPG's. I refuse to spend $200-$300/yr for a game.

Kelric · Post by **Kelric** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 8:14 pm

dfs wrote:Oh..I know that one.

Program Files/Bethesda/Morrowind/Data Files/Music

Throw your MP3's in there.

Well, yes. But, see....I don't have the mp3s.

JSL · Post by **JSL** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 8:20 pm

Kelric wrote:
dfs wrote:Oh..I know that one.

Program Files/Bethesda/Morrowind/Data Files/Music

Throw your MP3's in there.
Well, yes. But, see....I don't have the mp3s.

I don't think he realized you don't have the DVD. Are you ever going to get it?

IamChuckles · Post by **IamChuckles** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 8:27 pm

Aha Blackhawk. I was wondering why the text for doors and such were only slightly viewable. I had found that misc/2 tab earlier and modified it and forgot about it. Thanks for letting me know. It was bugging me a bit. While we are talking about Morrowind problems, I have a couple. Since I have installed the mods, I get a different color screen background if I am loading a new area. It is not a problem just different. Also I get a lot of fog pull in when I am talking to someone or buying from a vendor. Wierd. However the most troublesome is a freezing I am suddenly getting that "pauses" the game ever so often. It just started recently and did not exist before. I have installed no new mods so that should not be it. It is not a big problem but it is troubling. Thoughts anyone?

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 9:23 pm

IamChuckles wrote:Since I have installed the mods, I get a different color screen background if I am loading a new area.

Do you have an ATI card? This sounds like a known ATI issue if you have antialiasing enabled, not related to any plugins. The color is actually the color of the fog in that zone.

IamChuckles wrote:Also I get a lot of fog pull in when I am talking to someone or buying from a vendor.

Check the FPS Optimizer for a setting for seperate menu and game FPS settings (it should be on the first page). It draws the fog in to give you a smoother FPS while you are manipulating inventory and selecting dialogue, but the seperate numbers can be disabled.

IamChuckles wrote:However the most troublesome is a freezing I am suddenly getting that "pauses" the game ever so often. It just started recently and did not exist before.

Needsa more info - does everything freeze? Does sound continue? Is it happening if you are stationary, or does it only happen when you move around? Have you upgraded drivers recently for your hardware?

IamChuckles wrote: Thoughts anyone?

I like cheese.

IamChuckles · Post by **IamChuckles** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:55 am

Blackhawk I think you hit the nail on the head. I will have try it tonight after I get off work but I did enable antialiasing and ani filtering the other day for Nascar Racing 2003. Yes I have an ATI card. I will disable those and see what that does. I wonder if that will affect the "freezing" as well. Remind me to make a push to assist you in purchasing Oblivion when it comes out so you can help us with that one as well!

Meghan · Post by **Meghan** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:34 pm

is the freezing like a constant stutter? I had that at one point and solved it by reverting back to an older set of drivers. In my experience MW runs best on the drivers that were current when you video card was made.

I've never had an ati card soe I can't be more specific, but my money is on it being a driver issue.

IamChuckles · Post by **IamChuckles** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 8:46 pm

I have not purchased Bloodmoon but I have Tribunal. If I install Bloodmoon I would assume that I would go thru the procedure like for any mod. Is this true?

dfs · Post by **dfs** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:43 pm

FWIW turning OFF audio hardware acceleration improved my performance noticably.I wasn't really happy even at 800X600.

Now I've got everything maxed out and it's still smooth. This is nice.

This game is beautiful and unique. I hope it's good as well.

IamChuckles · Post by **IamChuckles** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:40 pm

I have narrowed down my problem with the freezing. Basically Caldera is loading slower and slower each time. At this point, it never finishes loading Caldera. Everything else seems to be fine. Has anyone else seen anything like this? Blackhawk is there anything I can do? I do not want to start over after all the time I have put into this.

Also I have a related question. What is everyone else's save game file sizes? Mine have been growing since I began. It started at 500k and now my saves are 6M in size since Sunday night. This was a doubling at this time. Could this be related to my problem?

Kelric · Post by **Kelric** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:47 pm

My save files run between 1.4 megs up to 3.3 megs and the newest aren't necessarily the largest.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:40 pm

IamChuckles wrote:I have narrowed down my problem with the freezing. Basically Caldera is loading slower and slower each time. At this point, it never finishes loading Caldera. Everything else seems to be fine. Has anyone else seen anything like this? Blackhawk is there anything I can do? I do not want to start over after all the time I have put into this.

Also I have a related question. What is everyone else's save game file sizes? Mine have been growing since I began. It started at 500k and now my saves are 6M in size since Sunday night. This was a doubling at this time. Could this be related to my problem?

1.5-3.5MB for a very stuff-heavy world (150+plugins).

I've never had that problem, but for some reason, your description makes think of a script gone wild. Do me a favor - open you Morrowind folder, open morrowind.ini with notepad, then paste everything below 'Game Files' into a post. It should look a bit like:

Code: Select all

[Game Files]
GameFile0=Morrowind.esm
GameFile1=Tribunal.esm
GameFile2=Bloodmoon.esm

Also paste the contents of Warnings.txt and ProgramFlow.txt from the same directory if you have those files.

IamChuckles · Post by **IamChuckles** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:36 am

Here ya go Blackhawk

[Game Files]
GameFile0=Better Heads Tribunal addon.esm
GameFile1=Better Heads.esm
GameFile2=Book Rotate.esm
GameFile3=GIANTS.esm
GameFile4=Morrowind.esm
GameFile5=Tribunal.esm
GameFile6=2xTimeMod.esp
GameFile7=A good place to stay, Ver 1,8.esp
GameFile8=AtmosphericSoundEffects-3.0-Tribunal.esp
GameFile9=AV_fem_shirts.esp
GameFile10=Balance - items.esp
GameFile11=Balmora Expansion v1.4.esp
GameFile12=Better Bodies.esp
GameFile13=Book Rotate - Tribunal v5.2.esp
GameFile14=Cait's Critters Unleashed 2.0 (Tribunal).esp
GameFile15=Clean Potions.esp
GameFile16=Clean Scrolls.esp
GameFile17=farrp_WeaponCompilationMod_V1.esp
GameFile18=Gameplay - Dialogue.esp
GameFile19=Gameplay - Faction.esp
GameFile20=GIANTS Ultimate Control file.esp
GameFile21=IceBradyRobeReplacerTB.esp
GameFile22=Merged_Dialogs.esp
GameFile23=Merged_Leveled_Lists.esp
GameFile24=Merged_Objects.esp
GameFile25=ModMan_windowlights_purist_2.esp
GameFile26=New Icons.esp
GameFile27=New Trees Replacement Project 0.2 [omega version].esp
GameFile28=No-Glo_0709.esp
GameFile29=OfficialMods_v5.esp
GameFile30=PotionSorter.esp
GameFile31=Re-coloured Ebony and Dwarven.esp
GameFile32=Ring Texture Fix.esp
GameFile33=Textured_Signs_Neutral.esp
GameFile34=Underwater Ruins.esp
GameFile35=VGreetings-Hit.esp
GameFile36=VGreetings-Thief.esp
GameFile37=VGreetings.esp
GameFile38=Windows Glow.esp
GameFile39=Wizard's High 2.0.esp

And

Warnings.txt:
Texture "Textures\_land_default.tga" count 3.
Texture "Textures\Tx_WG_rockydirt_01.tga" count 3.
Texture "Textures\menu_thick_border_bottom_right_corner.dds" count 2.

Programflow.txt:
000204: Program Started
000204: Computer Name: Chuck Bryant
000204: Creating Windows
000204: Begin loading of archive header and invalidation of archived files
000306: Finished with header loading and invalidation
000306: Initializing Main
000306: Video adapter: RADEON 9800 PRO (6.14.10.6490)
000613: Creating Scene
000714: Loading Master/Plugin
001939: Done Loading Master/Plugin
001939: Done Creating Scene
002346: Done Initalizing Main
003468: Loading...Loading Objects from file...
003672: Loading...Initializing Loaded Objects...
003673: Loading...Initializing Player 3D...
003673: Loading...Initializing Player Mob...
003979: Loading...Initializing Loaded References...
005204: Loading...Resetting projectiles...
005204: Loading...Resetting Spellmanager...
005204: Loading...Parsing Quests...
005204: Loading...Done.

Thanks.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 9:27 am

Hmm. I don't see anything obvious in the warnings or Program Flow. I recognize all of the plugins as solid and reliable except OfficialMods_v5.esp, which quick research shows should be reliable, too.

The only real problem I see with the installation is the order - The Better Heads addon, for example, should load after Better Heads, and the merged items should be last. Take a look at the 'ReorderPlugins' section of my Readme for a guide to that. You don't have all the same files, but you have lots of the same ones. I'll be honest, though - I don't think that is the problem. It doesn't hurt to try, but I'm not sure it will fix it.

Try reordering your plugins, then check things out with a fresh save instead of reloading the lagging one. If that doesn't help, I'd go to the experts on the official forums.

IamChuckles · Post by **IamChuckles** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 9:09 pm

I finally broke down and picked up the GOTY edition at Target to get Bloodmoon. With the problems I already had should I just reinstall and start over or do you think I can add Bloodmoon and then just go to an older save? Even the older save has slowdown in Caldera for some reason. I think I should reinstall with Bloodmoon then level up from the console to make it easier to get the stuff I had. But I do not have time for that if that is overkill.

IamChuckles · Post by **IamChuckles** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 3:50 pm

OK. I managed to fix what seems like all my problems. I wanted to pass on what I had found. As I mentioned before, Caldera area began loading slowly and framerate was horrible in that area. Also, I noticed my save files were over 6M. After some research I concluded I had the "doubling" problem that created multiple instances. I must have been creating oodles of something around Caldera. Anyway I looked at pumaman's site. He wrote GIANTSs. He had notes that said I should uncheck all the mods and then resave. I then turned all the mods back on and all was right with the world. My save files were then 1.7M. I played last night for several hours and everything is good. I just wanted to pass that along.

Spoilers follow......

On a lighter note, I had a little fun last night. I wanted to increase my standing in the mage's guild and at the same time make Galbedir(sp?) look foolish. So while her back was turned I confiscated all the gems on the desk behind her and the limeware platter they were on. That should knock her down a notch or two while I increasing my standing in the guild. I should be running the place in no time. (Not to mention that everyone else in the guild never does anything but stand around and complain!)

Octopus Overlords

Morrowind the mess

Morrowind the mess

Re: Morrowind the mess