World of Darkness-Kine Strikes Back-Game Over-Kindred Win

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:10 pm

tru1cy wrote:Btw, is this the first game the Grund actually survived til the end?

No. I think there have been a few.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:15 pm

Scoop20906 wrote:I'm in Lassr!!

Post In Most Dire Need Of A Comma Award 2007

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:18 pm

Chaosraven wrote:
Scoop20906 wrote:I'm in Lassr!!
Post In Most Dire Need Of A Comma Award 2007

Sorry, Austin....

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:19 pm

Chaosraven wrote:
Scoop20906 wrote:I'm in Lassr!!
Post In Most Dire Need Of A Comma Award 2007

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:23 pm

Grundbegriff wrote:
tru1cy wrote:Btw, is this the first game the Grund actually survived til the end?
No. I think there have been a few.

Speaking of which, how's the Index Thread?

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:27 pm

Chaosraven wrote:
Grundbegriff wrote:
tru1cy wrote:Btw, is this the first game the Grund actually survived til the end?
No. I think there have been a few.
Speaking of which, how's the Index Thread?

I've decided to handle that differently. I'm creating a database all about the games we've played since the beginning. (Most tables exist, but not all have been populated). After that, I'll probably make a little web app that allows people to ask questions of the data (e.g., "In which games has Chaosraven survived until the end?").

That's in-progress, though.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:28 pm

Chaosraven, you need to call Rev and let him know that he will need to meet the PM requirement to ease play. I'm not sure what they are right now. I think it is a minimum number of posts? Austin, what do new members need to be able to PM?

Of course Rev could always just give us his email and use that until he does meet them as could Austin's RL friend.

Last thing, Chaos, before Rev signs up, are you really sure that you want another player who is going to kill you every chance they get?

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:32 pm

Remus West wrote:Chaosraven, you need to call Rev and let him know that he will need to meet the PM requirement to ease play. I'm not sure what they are right now. I think it is a minimum number of posts? Austin, what do new members need to be able to PM?

Of course Rev could always just give us his email and use that until he does meet them as could Austin's RL friend.

Last thing, Chaos, before Rev signs up, are you really sure that you want another player who is going to kill you every chance they get?

Also make sure he meets the minimum time and posting requirements for PMs. I don't think he's posted but a half dozen times and I think you need ten or twenty posts to unluck the ability to send PMs.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:36 pm

LordMortis wrote:
Remus West wrote:Chaosraven, you need to call Rev and let him know that he will need to meet the PM requirement to ease play. I'm not sure what they are right now. I think it is a minimum number of posts? Austin, what do new members need to be able to PM?

Of course Rev could always just give us his email and use that until he does meet them as could Austin's RL friend.

Last thing, Chaos, before Rev signs up, are you really sure that you want another player who is going to kill you every chance they get?
Also make sure he meets the minimum time and posting requirements for PMs. I don't think he's posted but a half dozen times and I think you need ten or twenty posts to unluck the ability to send PMs.

This is why I think nobody reads my posts.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:53 pm

Chaosraven wrote:
Scoop20906 wrote:I'm in Lassr!!
Post In Most Dire Need Of A Comma Award 2007

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:19 pm

Grundbegriff wrote:
tru1cy wrote:Btw, is this the first game the Grund actually survived til the end?
No. I think there have been a few.

There have, ask Lassr about his bitterness.

(once Scoop is done with him)

Anyway I think you have to be a member for 1 week + 20 posts before PM'ing. Search meta, how am I supposed to know?

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:33 pm

Remus West wrote:Last thing, Chaos, before Rev signs up, are you really sure that you want another player who is going to kill you every chance they get?

With any luck I can bribe him with Magic cards to kill you, instead...

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:57 pm

Chaosraven wrote:
Remus West wrote:Last thing, Chaos, before Rev signs up, are you really sure that you want another player who is going to kill you every chance they get?
With any luck I can bribe him with Magic cards to kill you, instead...

I have a plainswalker I can offer. You still want to go that route?

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:58 pm

Remus West wrote:
Chaosraven wrote:
Remus West wrote:Last thing, Chaos, before Rev signs up, are you really sure that you want another player who is going to kill you every chance they get?
With any luck I can bribe him with Magic cards to kill you, instead...
I have a plainswalker I can offer. You still want to go that route?

I have an entire Type II deck he wants to play at Tournaments.

I'll see your League Plainswalker and Raise you 59 cards from a Constructed Environment

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:06 pm

despite losing good game guys. really good game. genghis you played that very very well. When i went back and read the thread, you didnt leave anything to make me think you were a vamp.....when kraeggor broke down...sorry kraeggor....it made me think him more likely a vamp...

Couple of things tough.

1. When i did read the thread, i thought that remus was a vamp, prior to reading...so i was interested to see that kraeggor made some comments about remus v. grund arguing....the thought struck me...why would a vamp blow the cover of his other two vamps...i should have listened to that.

2. Grund was really acting "quiet" in the final stages of the game...i mean he was present...but he wasnt doing the hard court press to discredit genghis...which also gave me pause for thought....

3. Grund mentioned that genghis does not leave bread crumbs...again another thing that should have struck me as odd.

I know hindsight is 20-20 but these things were one of many things that were swirling in my brain last night.

However, i took the leap of faith deciding to trust grund.

Scoop - it takes time to really learn these games. If anything its going to be a learning lesson for you. PLaying a special is also tough work...i have only ever really played a bad guy, mason, and a hunter (1 time). So those roles dont come around too often for you to practice at.

Anyway...good game all.

Kraegor · Post by **Kraegor** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:17 pm

when kraeggor broke down...sorry kraeggor....it made me think him more likely a vamp...

I didn't break down.

I like to lash out when I'm attacked. It tickles my sarcastic vein. Considering I have responded in that same manner regardless of guilt or innocence in every game I've played for over a year now...at some point....perhaps folks will pay more attention to WHAT is being said as opposed to HOW...when HOW is pure caricature.

/shrug. even if he was weird at times, at least PR_GMR had some understanding of playing a character

Kraegor · Post by **Kraegor** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:19 pm

How much ya wanna bet that if I don't lash out someone will say THAT makes me evil?

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:21 pm

I miss PR_GMR's play. I like the roleplayers more than those who, like me, approach it from a purely deductive viewpoint with their posts. I think I will try adopting a role for the BSG game. We shall see how it goes.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:21 pm

Kraegor wrote:How much ya wanna bet that if I don't lash out someone will say THAT makes me evil?

That is a total sucker bet.

Kraegor · Post by **Kraegor** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:23 pm

Remus West wrote:
Kraegor wrote:How much ya wanna bet that if I don't lash out someone will say THAT makes me evil?
That is a total sucker bet.

cool so how much you in for?

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:23 pm

Kraegor wrote:
when kraeggor broke down...sorry kraeggor....it made me think him more likely a vamp...
I didn't break down.

I like to lash out when I'm attacked. It tickles my sarcastic vein. Considering I have responded in that same manner regardless of guilt or innocence in every game I've played for over a year now...at some point....perhaps folks will pay more attention to WHAT is being said as opposed to HOW...when HOW is pure caricature.

/shrug. even if he was weird at times, at least PR_GMR had some understanding of playing a character

It's not the lashing out, at least not for me. I expect it and enjoy it. It was when it became, OMG everyone is out to get me! I've been playing under the radar and now people are believing the mage over me!!1!

Well duh... it wasn't because it was you, it was because we decided following the mage was the best bet. Had Genghis outed me as guilty I'm sure I would have been turned on too. I don't know why people didn't go for the Grund votes though.

Kraegor · Post by **Kraegor** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:25 pm

Everyone was out to get ME. WTF?!?!@?!@!!@BBQ?#@?@#$?

well actually, I had no cogent argument against Genghis' accusations. Hell, I looked at the evidence and agreed with him. Most of it held up pretty well because I posted more than he did, and I tried to sway more people.

what else was I gonna do? throw in a vote for myself? that worked out so well for Chaos and Trigger....at least it got Remus to withdraw his votes...

so I was stuck at the only viable argument being "Why trust Genghis". ya'll responded with "Why not?" so I said "PHUCK YOU!" then ya'll went "FINE!!"

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:31 pm

Austin wrote:Well duh... it wasn't because it was you, it was because we decided following the mage was the best bet. Had Genghis outed me as guilty I'm sure I would have been turned on too. I don't know why people didn't go for the Grund votes though.

Between "nobody is disputing him, it MUST be true" and the "Well, he only has 2 votes on him and the Vampires aren't jumping on it..." all I could do was silently

SCREAM "OH COME ON!"

Seriously... TWO "Vampires ID'd" and NEITHER OF THEM CLAIMS COUNTER-MAGE?

I'm glad you guys killed me.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:36 pm

Chaosraven wrote:I'm glad you guys killed me.

You are very welcome.

Bitch at me for not converting you will ya.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:48 pm

Chaosraven wrote:
Austin wrote:Well duh... it wasn't because it was you, it was because we decided following the mage was the best bet. Had Genghis outed me as guilty I'm sure I would have been turned on too. I don't know why people didn't go for the Grund votes though.
Between "nobody is disputing him, it MUST be true" and the "Well, he only has 2 votes on him and the Vampires aren't jumping on it..." all I could do was silently SCREAM "OH COME ON!"

Seriously... TWO "Vampires ID'd" and NEITHER OF THEM CLAIMS COUNTER-MAGE?

I'm glad you guys killed me.

Always kill the mage who offers you either nothing or a picture when it is too late to contradict him.

Lots of clues got ignored that I saw in this game. Sadly, most of them stemmed directly from meta play. Exactly one of the meta clues left led to the wrong conclusion. And that was Raven's attack on the metagame clues being presented when was in fact a good guy. I'm still blown away by this and think Raven has been replaced. The meta clues also yielded an emotion which further gave away more clues about people that were not contradicted.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:05 pm

Kraegor wrote:well actually, I had no cogent argument against Genghis' accusations.

That's why I was silent at the end, Newcastle. For one reason or another, all the facts just fell into place beautifully once we had hammered out the trap's details over at Brujah Central.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:47 pm

i really should have thought it through more...however, it was a well played trap...if you compare the playing of genghis and kraeggor through the course of the day...it really came down to a comparison of the two....i could have gone with you grund....yet...i still believed in genghis...anyway, yeah, the fact that no counter claim didnt come up...should have paid more attention to it.

Anyway, a learning lesson...and i did read what you guys said on the secret forums...so i am tractable and maleable huh..them be fightin words!

You know, i am wondering if we could set up a permanent secret forums...i guess one person run it...and then he give the keys to the moderator....and the moderator allow them to give access to the bad guys. It is a very useful communication tool. is doing something like that possible? It's worth discussing at least.

Kraegor · Post by **Kraegor** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:05 pm

killing Grund would have confirmed Genghis. Next move: Kill Kraegor.
choosing Grund over me was not a winning scenario.

choosing Austin over me was also a loosing scenario.

Genghis was the only correct move on the last day.

The key as they mentioned in the vamp forum and in previous games, is to tell 1 lie as a mage. Easiest way to reveal the one lie: Kill the mage (as pointed out by LM)

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:15 pm

Kraegor wrote:killing Grund would have confirmed Genghis. Next move: Kill Kraegor.
choosing Grund over me was not a winning scenario.

choosing Austin over me was also a loosing scenario.

Genghis was the only correct move on the last day.

The key as they mentioned in the vamp forum and in previous games, is to tell 1 lie as a mage. Easiest way to reveal the one lie: Kill the mage (as pointed out by LM)

And if Genghis was the mage? We would have lost. That was our perspective.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:21 pm

Austin wrote:
Kraegor wrote:killing Grund would have confirmed Genghis. Next move: Kill Kraegor.
choosing Grund over me was not a winning scenario.

choosing Austin over me was also a loosing scenario.

Genghis was the only correct move on the last day.

The key as they mentioned in the vamp forum and in previous games, is to tell 1 lie as a mage. Easiest way to reveal the one lie: Kill the mage (as pointed out by LM)
And if Genghis was the mage? We would have lost. That was our perspective.

Which is why the Mage/Seer MUST come forward BEFORE that situation arises. Waiting until the village back is against the wall only helps the bad guys.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:24 pm

Remus West wrote:
Austin wrote:
Kraegor wrote:killing Grund would have confirmed Genghis. Next move: Kill Kraegor.
choosing Grund over me was not a winning scenario.

choosing Austin over me was also a loosing scenario.

Genghis was the only correct move on the last day.

The key as they mentioned in the vamp forum and in previous games, is to tell 1 lie as a mage. Easiest way to reveal the one lie: Kill the mage (as pointed out by LM)
And if Genghis was the mage? We would have lost. That was our perspective.
Which is why the Mage/Seer MUST come forward BEFORE that situation arises. Waiting until the village back is against the wall only helps the bad guys.

You're preaching to the choir. I'm typically a proponent of specials coming out earlier rather than later. I've had several bad guy games where we've had everything going smoothly and someone like Chaos comes out as the Hunter and announces he is kill someone today.

We had him scanned and was the next night's target.

Kraegor · Post by **Kraegor** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:38 pm

Austin wrote:
And if Genghis was the mage? We would have lost. That was our perspective.

yes but when your fingers were crossed you were also thinking "if this is wrong we are SCREWED!!!"....

that was true of ANY choice. Occam's Razor....the point you brought up says....choose the simplest answer....

Killing me was not the simplest answer becuase it required that you believe Genghis and disbelieve me.

Killing Genghis required you disbelieve Genghis.

.....shoulda thought of this before you killed me....it is the only cogent argument...damn......

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:15 pm

Kraegor wrote:
Austin wrote:
And if Genghis was the mage? We would have lost. That was our perspective.
yes but when your fingers were crossed you were also thinking "if this is wrong we are SCREWED!!!"....

that was true of ANY choice. Occam's Razor....the point you brought up says....choose the simplest answer....

Killing me was not the simplest answer becuase it required that you believe Genghis and disbelieve me.

Killing Genghis required you disbelieve Genghis.

.....shoulda thought of this before you killed me....it is the only cogent argument...damn......

I don't know if you noticed but I was leaning toward you being the innocent one IF Genghis was lying. Oh well, play and learn. Next the the mage comes out we kill him!