Do we have any pool players here at OO?

Everything else!

Moderators: Bakhtosh, EvilHomer3k

User avatar
PeteRock
Posts: 3258
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 11:20 am
Location: Chandler, AZ (but my heart is in Philly)

Do we have any pool players here at OO?

Post by PeteRock »

While in college I lived in a house with a group of graduate students who owned a beautiful 9' Olhausen tournament table. For my final three years of college rather than having wild parties or spending excessive amounts of money in bars we instead pretty regularly had friends over and held weekly pool tournaments. Everyone would put up $10 and first place took home the pot.

I could "hold my own" for the most part, but I found that I was rather inconsistent. And no matter how much I played or practiced I never really seemed to correct that inconsistency. Some shots felt just "right" while others from the moment I shot them were off from the start. I never really felt like I had a good "feel" of the game.

A few years after college I found a local pool hall near my house in the Philadelphia area and every Sunday they offered a flat-rate for the day, costing one hour whether you played for one hour or 12 hours. Each and every Sunday a friend and I would play for four or five hours, and I still couldn't seem to develop any kind of consistency or a good "feel" for the game. And I often found myself making a difficult shot only to follow it up by missing what most would consider a "gimme". It was frustrating and I just didn't know what I was doing wrong or how to correct my problems. And during this time I had always wanted to purchase my own cue, but I always feared that I would be viewed as some sort of "poser", breaking out my two-piece cue and then playing like garbage. I also couldn't seem to justify the expense.

After moving to Arizona I didn't play any pool for over two years. Until about a month and a half ago. I went out with a group from the office for happy hour one Friday night, and the bar we chose had four coin-op tables. We wound up playing pool for almost five hours, and I rediscovered that love of the game I had so many years ago. But, I also rediscovered that same level of inconsistency and frustration.

Being the "nerd" that I am, I decided that I would have to learn how to correct some of my problems in order to better enjoy the game of pool, and applying one of the lessons of my college education, I determined that what better place to begin than books? And so I picked up two books on pool fundamentals. I read them both cover to cover in one day, and to my astonishment I learned a great deal of information. I learned about the history of pool, proper stance, aiming techniques (such as aiming point versus contact point), cue selection, cue maintenance, why many follow a difficult shot by missing an "easy" shot, how aim, contact location, and ball trajectory are not necessarily intuitive (you don't aim the cueball for the contact point, but instead for the location where the cueball will have to be in order to connect at the contact point), and so many other aspects of the game. I also learned that I was doing a number of things wrong and that my inconsistency and frustration stemmed from not having sound fundamentals or a firm understanding of how to play the game.

After learning so much about fundamentals, concepts, and techniques, I became extremely anxious to apply what I learned. The very next day I went with a group of friends to a local pool hall to see if what I learned would really work. But, being a little self conscious about where I learned about the game, I kept that little tidbit to myself. And for four hours I didn't lose a single game. :shock:

I no longer feared the long expanse of green on shots at the other end of the table, I developed a better understanding of how to aim for bank shots, I made a number of cut shots I would have in the past considered rather difficult, but when applying appropriate aiming techniques I learned that they weren't so difficult after all, and most importantly, I shot with consistency. I learned to take a moment after a tough shot to regain my composure and allow the adrenaline to subside, my stroke was much smoother and straighter, my shots were more accurate, and I started to gain a "feel" for the game. My confidence also improved, which many say is an important part of playing good pool. I was once again hooked on the game, and because of my new understanding of fundamentals and how to correctly play the game, I wasn't concerned that I would once again become frustrated and quit.

After a few weeks of playing well with house cues, I recently took the plunge and picked up my very first cue stick. I went to a well-known billiard supply store in the area and spent over an hour with the salesman shopping for the right cue for me. We tried different weights, different tapers, different grips, and different materials. I walked out with a solid maple Wynn cue with no inlays (but some bad-ass graphics including a skeleton demon on a skeleton horse and a skull at the base) along with a hard case and basic maintenance tools (too keep the shaft clean and smooth and to scuff and shape the leather tip). And I must say that playing with my new cue has blown my mind. I at first wondered if having my own cue would make much of a difference, and I was shocked at just how much of a difference it made. Better control, more confidence, better consistency from playing with the same cue all the time.

I now play at least two nights during the week and again on weekends. It has become an addiction. I must play at least one night a week, and by Friday I can't go to a happy hour location unless they've got pool tables. Sunday afternoon has become my practice time, working on fundamentals and running through drills at a local pool hall. If I go more than two or three days I have to play again. Learning how to correctly improve my game and remedy many of the problems I had in the past has help tremendously to improve not just my play but also my enjoyment of the game. I've been really excited about my newfound appreciation of the game and just had to share with the group. Of course, my improvement has made it a little more difficult to convince my friends to play as often as I'd like, but some have embraced the challenge and now really enjoy beating me when they're able to.

I don't think I've ever really seen much of a discussion on pool here on the forums and I began wondering if there were other fans of the game in our little community. Anyone else care to share? And if any fans of the game live in the Phoenix area, let me know as I'm always looking for someone new to play with.
Fly Eagles fly, on the road to victory.
Fight Eagles fight, score a touchdown 1-2-3.

Hit 'em low,
Hit 'em high,
And we'll watch our Eagles fly.

Fly Eagles fly, on the road to victory.

E-A-G-L-E-S...........EAGLES!
User avatar
Mr. Fed
Posts: 15111
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:05 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Post by Mr. Fed »

My senior year in college I lived in what had been the ATO house before ATO was kicked off campus in the 70s.

It had a pool table. I played probably an hour a day. I was decent, if not great. But it was a lot of fun.

It also had a sauna. Now that rocked. Use your imagination.
Popehat, a blog.
User avatar
Peacedog
Posts: 13148
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 7:11 pm
Location: Despair, level 5
Contact:

Post by Peacedog »

Pete, you sound somewhat like me. I was always inconsistent at best, occasionally showing flashes of decent-ness (and occasionally playing solid and consistently solid for hours). I entered a weird phase where if I played doubles with two specific friends, I usually did pretty good if they aided in my lining up of shots.

I think I struggled with the exact same things as you. I rarely feel that comfortable with stance or how I'm holding the queue, and often get frustrated because I seem to be aiming at the queu ball wrong (when I think I'm aiming right). I always assumed trouble here arose in part from a gawky stance/swing (such as it is).

It's a very fun game, no question.

One difference between you and me is that I' have posted links to the fucking books I read, in case anyone was interested in sharing in the knowledge bounty.
User avatar
rrmorton
Posts: 8760
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:06 pm
Location: Pleasantville NY

Post by rrmorton »

I love pool. I played a ton during college and for years afterward, occasionally playing in straight pool leagues at my local pool hall.

ahem:

Image
Image

I haven't played much in recent years, mostly because my best friend and pool partner moved away to Boston. But we still play whenever we get together.

It's the best game in the world. The physics of colliding spheres and mastery of the position game is endlessly fascinating. I fuckin love it.
User avatar
Grundbegriff
Posts: 22277
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:46 am
Location: http://baroquepotion.com
Contact:

Post by Grundbegriff »

Do you find it hard to steady your shot while balancing on a hovercraft?
User avatar
rrmorton
Posts: 8760
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:06 pm
Location: Pleasantville NY

Post by rrmorton »

I admit, that took some getting used to. Fortunately, I spent some time studying under a disciplined instructor who was well-versed in the McFly Technique.

Image
User avatar
Austin
Posts: 15192
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:49 pm
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Contact:

Post by Austin »

I'm really, really, really good. See I use my special strategy where I leave as many of my balls in play on the table and block my opponent from any really good shots. This rarely wins me the game but I'm consistent and am really, really, really good at playing that style.
Your ad here.
User avatar
coopasonic
Posts: 20992
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 11:43 pm
Location: Dallas-ish

Post by coopasonic »

I have an 8' table in my house and I pretty much never, ever play. it's not even like it's down in the basement or somewhere out of the way, it's right outside my office where the formal dining/living areas should be. It's handy for wrapping christmas gifts and not bad for setting up heroscape either. :oops:
-Coop
Black Lives Matter
User avatar
Bob
Posts: 5091
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:09 pm
Location: Suburbia, MI

Post by Bob »

Mr. Fed wrote:It also had a sauna. Now that rocked. Use your imagination.
No.
Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?
User avatar
Bob
Posts: 5091
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:09 pm
Location: Suburbia, MI

Post by Bob »

I play Midnight Pool 3D on my mobile phone.
Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?
User avatar
PeteRock
Posts: 3258
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 11:20 am
Location: Chandler, AZ (but my heart is in Philly)

Post by PeteRock »

Peacedog wrote:One difference between you and me is that I' have posted links to the fucking books I read, in case anyone was interested in sharing in the knowledge bounty.
:lol: :ninja:

As silly as this first book may seem on the surface, I found it to be a great introduction to some of the more complex aspects of the game without being too overwhelming. It is a fantastic introduction and provides a lot of extremely useful basics, and you can probably read it in an evening. The concepts are introduced in a clear and concise way, the book is easy to understand, and I would consider it to be an "easy to swallow" starting point. I would recommend this book as a great place to begin.

The Everything Pool & and Billiards Book: From Breaking to Bank Shots, All You Need to Master the Game

The second book I picked up takes a more "professional" approach and presents concepts in a much more detailed and technical way. It is much longer than the "Everything..." book and is chock full of illustrations, but the concepts are presented in a less lighthearted and more complex manner. If I would have started with the second book I might have been a little discouraged by its complexity and overwhelmed by the almost painful detail. But, I think the "Everything..." book gave me a helpful and easy-to-understand foundation of the basics to work from and prepared me for the more complex "teachings" in the second book.

The Illustrated Principles of Pool and Billiards

I would suggest the "Everything..." book if you're looking for a better understanding of fundamentals and basics, and I'd only suggest "The Illustrated Principles" if you were then looking to go into more detail and learn the more complex and challenging aspects of the game. But I found both to be great resources and they continue to act as helpful references when I run into questions or want to refresh my memory on certain concepts. "The Illustrated Principles" also includes links to video footage online, but I haven't looked into whether these links still exist.
Fly Eagles fly, on the road to victory.
Fight Eagles fight, score a touchdown 1-2-3.

Hit 'em low,
Hit 'em high,
And we'll watch our Eagles fly.

Fly Eagles fly, on the road to victory.

E-A-G-L-E-S...........EAGLES!
User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 70212
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Post by LordMortis »

If the jukebox is crankin' then I play a mean poolstick. Aside from that, not so much.
User avatar
PeteRock
Posts: 3258
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 11:20 am
Location: Chandler, AZ (but my heart is in Philly)

Post by PeteRock »

rrmorton wrote:It's the best game in the world. The physics of colliding spheres and mastery of the position game is endlessly fascinating. I fuckin love it.
+fucking1000
Grundbegriff wrote:Do you find it hard to steady your shot while balancing on a hovercraft?
I'm not sure why, but that was pretty damn funny. :lol:
Fly Eagles fly, on the road to victory.
Fight Eagles fight, score a touchdown 1-2-3.

Hit 'em low,
Hit 'em high,
And we'll watch our Eagles fly.

Fly Eagles fly, on the road to victory.

E-A-G-L-E-S...........EAGLES!
User avatar
Peacedog
Posts: 13148
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 7:11 pm
Location: Despair, level 5
Contact:

Post by Peacedog »

Thanks Pete, for posting the books. I'll put them on the list.
User avatar
rrmorton
Posts: 8760
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:06 pm
Location: Pleasantville NY

Post by rrmorton »

I'll throw in some recommendations for Robert Byrne's pool instruction books, both of which I enjoyed:

Byrne's New Standard Book of Pool and Billiards
&
Byrne's Advanced Technique in Pool and Billiards
User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55361
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, outrageous taxes on everything

Post by LawBeefaroni »

I prefer to play darts, but yeah, I'll play pool.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT
User avatar
Peacedog
Posts: 13148
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 7:11 pm
Location: Despair, level 5
Contact:

Post by Peacedog »

Darts - another game I suck at but at one point was gaining mild competency at.
User avatar
Octavious
Posts: 20040
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 2:50 pm

Post by Octavious »

I used to play all the time. I won the 9 Ball D class tournies 4 or 5 times but never did anything past that. I'd love to have my own table at home that I could pratice on. I'm hoping sometime down the road I get time to really give it a decent shot. For whatever reason I've very good under pressure.
Capitalism tries for a delicate balance: It attempts to work things out so that everyone gets just enough stuff to keep them from getting violent and trying to take other people’s stuff.

Shameless plug for my website: www.nettphoto.com
User avatar
CSL
Posts: 6209
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm
Location: Brandon, Manitoba

Post by CSL »

I've been known to play an inconsistent game of poll every once and awhile.

Keep me away from darts though.
User avatar
YellowKing
Posts: 30194
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:02 pm

Post by YellowKing »

My in-laws have a pool table at their beach house. Back when I was dating my wife, we'd go down there almost every weekend and shoot pool after dinner.

The interesting part of this story is that they had a neighbor everybody called "Uncle Ira." This guy was amazing. He was well into his 80s, drank like a fish, smoked like a chimney, and cussed like a sailor. He was also an outstanding pool player.

He'd come over and shoot pool with us on occasion, but when playing against us he'd always hold back and let us win a few, or just barely squeak out a win for himself at the end. If you asked him to put on a demonstration, however, he'd run a table for you or do trick shots. We once saw him sink the 9 on a break 3 times in a row.

He had tons of pool jokes, and he often told us with a grin to always choose the high numbers when playing Elimination, because "they're heavier and fall in the pocket faster."

He ended up accidentally burning his house down with a cigarette. He made it out alive, but was put in a nursing home as his health deteriorated. He ended up living into his 90s, still smoking, still cussing, and according to stories we got from the nursing home every now and then - still chasing women.

He's passed away now, but whenever I shoot pool I always smile thinking about Uncle Ira.
User avatar
rrmorton
Posts: 8760
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:06 pm
Location: Pleasantville NY

Post by rrmorton »

PeteRock wrote:
rrmorton wrote:It's the best game in the world. The physics of colliding spheres and mastery of the position game is endlessly fascinating. I fuckin love it.
+fucking1000
The real thrill of the game for me was when it dawned on me that not only do you need to leave yourself good position for the next ball, but you also want good position and natural shape off that ball to get to the following shot. In other words going from two balls ahead, to three.

But I found that once I tried straight pool, eight and nine ball really paled in comparison. Nothing beats the fun and satisfaction of playing a good match of straight pool.

For those unfamiliar with how it works, this is the game that uses those strings of abacus-lookin beads that are strung up over pool hall tables, or alternately, the plastic score dials on the ends of the tables. You can hit any ball you want, but you have to call every shot. 1 point per ball you make. Slop doesn't count, unless you make your intended shot. First player to 100 wins. (Or 50 or 200 or whatever you and your opponent choose.)

But the fun part is when there's only one ball left and the remaining 14 balls get re-racked at which point you can continue your run by sinking that lone ball and breaking up the pack.

For me, there's no greater satisfaction in pool than choosing your break ball, shooting all the balls around it, leaving a good angle on your break ball, racking up the other 14, and successfully sinking your shot while breaking open the pack so you can continue your run. I think my high run was only around 26 or something but I used to sit and watch the front table where the pros played and they could routinely run rack after rack after rack. 50, 80, 120, or more. Amazing.

The defensive side of the game is unlike any other in pool. If the rack is still tight and you don't have a shot, then you want to leave your opponent with nothing as well. To hit a legal shot, you need to hit a ball and then a rail (either your cue ball or another ball can hit the rail.)

The trick is you don't want to break up the cluster too much to give your opponent a ball to hit. So you see lots of delicate, glancing kiss shots off the side of the triangle cluster that send the cue ball way down the table to leave your opponent with no makable balls and a long way from the pack. It requires a lot of touch and imagination to play smart defense.

It's also a lot of fun to analyze the cluster of balls and see if you can get creative and find a makable ball in the pack with a tight combo that's lined up dead on a pocket.

Unfortunately, straight pool is pretty slow-paced so it's rarely if ever televised. The fast, aggressive game of nine ball where high turnover and luck is a factor tends to get all the attention on ESPN.
User avatar
PeteRock
Posts: 3258
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 11:20 am
Location: Chandler, AZ (but my heart is in Philly)

Post by PeteRock »

rrmorton wrote:<<Explanation of Straight Pool>>
The pool hall in Philly I mentioned above that had the nice "Sunday special" is where I first learned of the game of straight pool. There was a father and son who would be there every Sunday, and this seemed to be their special time together. They would play for hours, chatting about current events, the family, sports, etc, and I remember seeing them doing just what you describe above, reracking the other 14 balls when one was left on the table, and intentionally glancing shots off of the triangle cluster, but at the time I had no idea what they were playing.

It wasn't until I recently picked up the books I linked to above that I finally learned that they were playing straight pool. I had a :shock: moment when the realization finally hit. I finally learned what the "abacus-looking beads" were for, how the game was played, what the rules were, and strategies behind succeeding at the game. I have yet to convince a friend to give it a try as they are all casual pool players (more or less whenever I "make" them) and when I begin explaining the rules they quickly say, "That's too complicated, let's keep it simple with 8-ball." :( Another friend "only plays 8-ball", and the rest I'm lucky to even get to come along let alone actually play.

But I really look forward to playing, especially as it is a great game to play when planning to be at it for a while with the same person. I'm scheduled to play pool with my father-in-law tonight after work, and perhaps I'll be able to convince him to give it a try as he's a pretty good pool player in general and with the wife and her mother shopping for the evening he and I will be the only people playing. A slower-paced game with strategy might be the perfect thing to keep us playing for hours.

I have continued to have the same question, and perhaps you can finally answer it. How does the game begin? I understand that all shots are called, that you rerack after one ball is left on the table (doesn't the lone ball get placed on the dot in the "kitchen" when it interferes with the placement of the rack?), each ball is worth one point, either the cue ball or an object ball must hit at least one rail if you play a "safety", and that you can play to any finite score of your own choosing. But, because all shots are called, what happens on the break on the very first rack of the game/series/etc? Must you call a particular ball, if something falls do you still lose your turn as it is near impossible to call anything, does it work against you to break up the rack, and if so, what kinds of strategies are helpful on that very first rack?
Fly Eagles fly, on the road to victory.
Fight Eagles fight, score a touchdown 1-2-3.

Hit 'em low,
Hit 'em high,
And we'll watch our Eagles fly.

Fly Eagles fly, on the road to victory.

E-A-G-L-E-S...........EAGLES!
User avatar
Kraken
Posts: 43779
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:59 pm
Location: The Hub of the Universe
Contact:

Post by Kraken »

Grew up with a pool table in the basement. It wasn't quite level, and the slate was a tad warped. My skills didn't translate very well to the pool hall.
User avatar
Turtle
Posts: 6310
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 2:09 am
Location: Southern California
Contact:

Post by Turtle »

I'm like Peter Griffin.

While sober, I suck. But I get better the more buzzed I am.
User avatar
PeteRock
Posts: 3258
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 11:20 am
Location: Chandler, AZ (but my heart is in Philly)

Post by PeteRock »

Turtle wrote:I'm like Peter Griffin.

While sober, I suck. But I get better the more buzzed I am.
I think we've all more or less experienced this phenomenon, but I have found that the beer/skill curve follows a 1-1 slope only up to a certain point. And then everything drops off into oblivion. There is no slow degradation or prior warning. Just better-better-better-better-better-oh-dear-god-what-just-happened. It certainly is no bell curve. More like the slow climb of a roller coaster followed by a severely steep plunge back to Earth.
Fly Eagles fly, on the road to victory.
Fight Eagles fight, score a touchdown 1-2-3.

Hit 'em low,
Hit 'em high,
And we'll watch our Eagles fly.

Fly Eagles fly, on the road to victory.

E-A-G-L-E-S...........EAGLES!
User avatar
KeriKitKat
Posts: 1801
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2005 8:36 pm
Location: Houston, TX

Post by KeriKitKat »

Excellent thread! Thank you for posting the books. My dad is an extremely good player (at least he still was 7 or 8 years ago when I last played with him) and my brother is pretty decent as well. I never really figured out the whole angles thing. I want to learn!

I also want a pool table. They can be had for cheap on Criagslist if one has something to transport it in. Hmm.
If you cannot convince them, confuse them.
User avatar
nomorals
Posts: 380
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 3:05 am

Post by nomorals »

I play an ungodly amount of darts at the local pub... but when I get talked into a game of pool I win far more often than I lose. I've always been fairly good with angles and naturally understood the whole contact point thing which made me unstoppable at cut shots. My biggest weakness is my stroke can be a bit inconsistent at times.

Also I play HORRIBLY while sober. I stopped drinking for a bit and played like complete ass.
User avatar
happydog
Posts: 298
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 4:10 pm

Post by happydog »

More detail at GT but,

Foosball > Pool
User avatar
Anonymous Bosch
Posts: 10514
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 6:09 pm
Location: Northern California [originally from the UK]

Post by Anonymous Bosch »

rrmorton wrote:Nothing beats the fun and satisfaction of playing a good match of straight pool.
Except the fun and satisfaction of playing a good match of snooker. :P
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." — P. J. O'Rourke
User avatar
rrmorton
Posts: 8760
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:06 pm
Location: Pleasantville NY

Post by rrmorton »

PeteRock wrote:How does the game begin?
In straight pool, you don't want the break shot. Players usually lag for break. (That's where you hit the cue ball up and down the table and whoever is closer to the rail you're standing at -- without actually hitting or touching it -- wins the lag and doesn't have to break.) Or you could just flip a coin.

You're allowed to call a ball and a pocket on the break, but that's not normally done.

Normally you play a safety. To do that, the player has to hit the pack and make at least *two balls* and the cue ball hit a rail.

The typical way this is done is by positioning the cue ball on the line about halfway between the dot and the rail (to either side of the dot). Then you aim straight down the table at one of the back corner balls (left back corner if you positioned the cue ball left of the dot, right back corner if you positioned the cue ball right of the dot. The shot should go approximately straight down table.)

Then you hit a gentle shot at the visible edge of the back corner ball you've chosen. The desired effect is to send this ball and the ball on the opposite back corner of the rack out to the nearest rails (one will go to the back rail, the other to a side rail) and then rebound back into the pack. Hopefully the other balls in the rack won't move too much.

Meanwhile, the cue ball glances off into the back rail, off the side rail, and back up the table, hopefully back up to the rail you're standing at thereby leaving a nice, long shot for your opponent. Usually a ball or two or three have broken free of the rack on this shot, but you've left them something long and difficult.

You and your opponent will want to practice this a few times before you start just to get a feel for what you're trying to accomplish. The best break shots come back and the cue ball just barely touches the back rail so your opponent has to deal with that difficulty as well.

Take it away Wiki!
wikipedia wrote:Unlike in most pool games, where pocketing a ball and spreading the balls is the aim on the break, the object in straight pool's standard initial break shot is to leave the opponent with a safety. This is because the call-pocket rule includes the break shot.

On the break, either a ball must be pocketed in a designated pocket or the cue ball and at least two additional balls must touch a rail. The failure to accomplish one of these two options results in a foul. Fouling on the initial break results in a special penalty of a loss of 2 points. In addition, the opponent has the choice either of accepting the table in position, or alternatively of having the balls re-racked and requiring the offending player to repeat the opening break.

All other fouls during the game result in a one point deduction, including fouling on an intragame rack. However, a third foul in a row at any time in a straight pool game results in a loss of 15 points (for purposes of this rule, a foul on the initial break, though it is a loss of two points, is not counted as two fouls). The 15 point deduction is in addition to the one point loss for each foul. Thus, the first two fouls are a loss of one point each, and the third foul in a row is a loss of 16 points; 1 point for the foul, and 15 points for it being the third contiguous foul.
PeteRock wrote:doesn't the lone ball get placed on the dot in the "kitchen" when it interferes with the placement of the rack?
Correct.

If an object ball interferes with the rack, it gets spotted on the other end of the table. Sometimes you can incorporate this into your strategy if you don't have a good break ball.

Here's a chart from wiki for all the variations on cue balls or object balls interfering with the rack:

Image
User avatar
rrmorton
Posts: 8760
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:06 pm
Location: Pleasantville NY

Post by rrmorton »

Find a good opponent and spend some time getting comfortable with straight pool and I swear you'll never go back. (Actually, you will go back because sometimes you only have time for some casual quick racks of 8 or 9 ball.) But your heart will belong to the strategy and challenge of straight pool. The beauty is you play against yourself as much as you play against your opponent.
User avatar
PeteRock
Posts: 3258
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 11:20 am
Location: Chandler, AZ (but my heart is in Philly)

Post by PeteRock »

rrmorton wrote:Find a good opponent and spend some time getting comfortable with straight pool and I swear you'll never go back. (Actually, you will go back because sometimes you only have time for some casual quick racks of 8 or 9 ball.) But your heart will belong to the strategy and challenge of straight pool. The beauty is you play against yourself as much as you play against your opponent.
After I posted my questions I actually checked wiki and yet again I found what I was looking for. One other question I have deals with fouls. Is it very common for many fouls to take place, incorporating the 15-point rule for three consecutive fouls, or do most fouls consist of issues with the break (which nets 2 penalty points), or scratches (one penalty point)?

And I do not at all understand the "ball frozen to the rail" rule. :? Is it bad form to keep things relatively simple at first (two points for a break foul, one point for scratching or not meeting the requirements of a safety, and the 1-point-plus-15-point "bonus" penalty for three fouls in a row) and just leave it at that? Some of the more specific aspects of the game seem to be a little confusing (and a bit overwhelming), so I'd like to apply the basics I list above and go into the more complex aspects of the game once I'm more familiar with the rules (like the frozen ball rule, reracking and rebreaking, etc).
Fly Eagles fly, on the road to victory.
Fight Eagles fight, score a touchdown 1-2-3.

Hit 'em low,
Hit 'em high,
And we'll watch our Eagles fly.

Fly Eagles fly, on the road to victory.

E-A-G-L-E-S...........EAGLES!
deadzone
Posts: 1265
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 10:07 am
Location: Cypress, TX.
Contact:

Post by deadzone »

Pool is definitely something that I enjoy. I have always wanted to get a table but never had enough room for it. Now that I have a house with plenty of room, it makes me think that I should start thinking about it again. :)

It's neat to see the different types of pool games and how they are played and the many different strategies that are employed. There is pretty much a game that most anyone may enjoy from 9-Ball to Straight Pool and everything in between.

I tell you what I have played a lot of that really is a challenge. Snooker. Snooker is a thinking man's game that involves strategy and lot's of defensive position play in which the ball speed is very important. The table is much larger, the balls are smaller, the pockets are smaller, and the concept is much different from traditional pool games.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snooker

My mother is married to an Irishmen who played Snooker from a very young age for a long time who won lot's of tournaments in his time. It's amazing what his Snooker skills bring to the game of pool. His control, english, ball speed, and ability to read the table and plan a table run is something to behold. We got out a play pool sometimes and there are sometimes stretches of at least an hour or more where I DO NOT get a shot because he will break and run 7 or more games in a row. It's sort of disconcerting watching him play to be honest, because you really get an idea of what it's like to totally be in control of the cue ball when you watch him.
Biyobi
Posts: 5440
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:21 pm
Location: San Gabriel, CA

Post by Biyobi »

PeteRock wrote:
Turtle wrote:I'm like Peter Griffin.

While sober, I suck. But I get better the more buzzed I am.
I think we've all more or less experienced this phenomenon, but I have found that the beer/skill curve follows a 1-1 slope only up to a certain point. And then everything drops off into oblivion. There is no slow degradation or prior warning. Just better-better-better-better-better-oh-dear-god-what-just-happened. It certainly is no bell curve. More like the slow climb of a roller coaster followed by a severely steep plunge back to Earth.
I've played both darts and pool along these lines. At the peaks I've played a four round game of cricket and a straight run from break to 8-ball (normally not a great pool player). Three sips more of my Jack'n'7 and I'm wondering where all the love went. :cry:

Lately I've been playing 9-ball at a small bar with some of the other guys that hang out there along with the bartender. If it's a quiet night he'll pop open the side of the coin-op table and we'll play for free.
User avatar
PeteRock
Posts: 3258
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 11:20 am
Location: Chandler, AZ (but my heart is in Philly)

Post by PeteRock »

nomorals wrote:I play an ungodly amount of darts at the local pub... but when I get talked into a game of pool I win far more often than I lose. I've always been fairly good with angles and naturally understood the whole contact point thing which made me unstoppable at cut shots. My biggest weakness is my stroke can be a bit inconsistent at times.

Also I play HORRIBLY while sober. I stopped drinking for a bit and played like complete ass.
I've learned that the key to maintaining a consistent stroke is to 1) try to keep your bridge hand as flat as possible with your palm on the table (it's easy to raise your palm up a little bit and the higher you go the less stable your bridge will become); 2) don't grip the cue with a full five-finger grip and instead try to keep your pinky and sometimes even your ring finger off the cue (keeps you from gripping the cue too tightly); 3) your cue should impact the ball when your shot arm is perpendicular to the floor so that you pull back the same distance as you follow through; 4) the closer your bridge hand to the cue ball the more accurate your shot will be; 5) maintaining consistent form by taking a similar stance each time, going through the same motions each time, and setting up your shot the same each time.

Granted all of these things aren't possible in every shot, but they're some fundamentals that help to improve consistency.

Once I developed a better understanding of angles and contact points I become much more accurate in my shots, especially cut shots, but I had to line up shots by using my cue as a guide and then really focus on the contact point, constantly thinking about exactly what I was doing. But surprisingly over time I've learned to visualize the "ghost ball" and contact points without needing my cue as a visual aid and I can line up a shot, get into position, and shoot without as much firm concentration on exactly what I am doing. Visualization comes more naturally now and it really is a nice feeling to get to this point in my game.
Fly Eagles fly, on the road to victory.
Fight Eagles fight, score a touchdown 1-2-3.

Hit 'em low,
Hit 'em high,
And we'll watch our Eagles fly.

Fly Eagles fly, on the road to victory.

E-A-G-L-E-S...........EAGLES!
User avatar
PeteRock
Posts: 3258
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 11:20 am
Location: Chandler, AZ (but my heart is in Philly)

Post by PeteRock »

KeriKitKat wrote:Excellent thread! Thank you for posting the books. My dad is an extremely good player (at least he still was 7 or 8 years ago when I last played with him) and my brother is pretty decent as well. I never really figured out the whole angles thing. I want to learn!

I also want a pool table. They can be had for cheap on Criagslist if one has something to transport it in. Hmm.
If you're really serious about learning more about the game and need a place to start, I strongly recommend the "Everything..." book I linked to above. It really provides an easy-reading introduction to pool and necessary fundamentals inherent in improving one's game. But it doesn't get bogged down in minutia or excessive complexity. It presents pool in layman's terms for anyone to understand. But, even if you're at a higher skill level, it still presents information that can help the beginner as well as the veteran.

Plus, it also provides some background and history of the various games, rules for each game type of pool, drills to practice, etc. Once you are comfortable with the concepts presented and how to apply them in a real-world game of pool then I would recommend a more complex book. But the "Everything..." title is a great starting point and really helped to provide me with a nice foundation before moving on to more complicated aspects of the game.
Fly Eagles fly, on the road to victory.
Fight Eagles fight, score a touchdown 1-2-3.

Hit 'em low,
Hit 'em high,
And we'll watch our Eagles fly.

Fly Eagles fly, on the road to victory.

E-A-G-L-E-S...........EAGLES!
User avatar
KeriKitKat
Posts: 1801
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2005 8:36 pm
Location: Houston, TX

Post by KeriKitKat »

nomorals wrote:Also I play HORRIBLY while sober. I stopped drinking for a bit and played like complete ass.
Hahaha I'm glad this not a purely Keri-based phenomenon. I think I get better after drinking because I don't overanalyze (wrongly) every shot.

CL and I also get REALLY good at darts when drunk. How is that possible? We're both already pretty good, but last time we played, we faced off against this couple that was almost completely sober. Both of us had had quite a few pints of Sam Adams, and yet we totally kicked their asses. It was beautiful.
If you cannot convince them, confuse them.
User avatar
Chesspieceface
Posts: 4038
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 2:01 pm
Location: San Diego, CA

Post by Chesspieceface »

My high school had an "open campus" for lunch. Mostly we'd go get hoagies then go to the pool hall for the rest of the day. After a few years of daily playing you definitely learn how to handle a cue, I don't think I'll ever forget. But I certainly never got to the "three moves ahead" level that morton is talking about... only ever got to that with chess.
kind of like a cloud I was up way up in the sky and I was feeling some feelings that I couldn't believe; sometimes I don't believe them myself but I decided I was never coming down
User avatar
PeteRock
Posts: 3258
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 11:20 am
Location: Chandler, AZ (but my heart is in Philly)

Post by PeteRock »

KeriKitKat wrote:
nomorals wrote:Also I play HORRIBLY while sober. I stopped drinking for a bit and played like complete ass.
Hahaha I'm glad this not a purely Keri-based phenomenon. I think I get better after drinking because I don't overanalyze (wrongly) every shot.
It's not necessarily the overanalysis that is the problem, but nerves. Which is why many people follow a particularly difficult and crowd-pleasing shot with missing an easy shot. Adrenaline, no matter how minor, causes you to lose a bit of your focus, your mind doesn't line up the shot quite as accurately, your form falters a bit because the blood is pumping and your confidence is at an all-time high, you may not go through your typical pre-shot routine, and all of those minor disruptions eventually lead to WTF?

Alcohol, which is a depressant, helps to minimize the effects of adrenaline and also aids in keeping you a little calmer. You become a little more comfortable, a little more at ease, and less likely to get a little too jazzed after a good shot or nice toss of the dart.

However, inevitably you get to the point where you've had too much alcohol and you become a little too relaxed, a little too at ease, things become a little too blurry, and then the simple act of breaking even becomes a formidable challenge.

The calmer I am, the better I play as my nerves don't come into play, and usually the best way to immediately combat nerves is to have a drink or two.
Fly Eagles fly, on the road to victory.
Fight Eagles fight, score a touchdown 1-2-3.

Hit 'em low,
Hit 'em high,
And we'll watch our Eagles fly.

Fly Eagles fly, on the road to victory.

E-A-G-L-E-S...........EAGLES!
User avatar
Moliere
Posts: 12361
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:57 am
Location: Walking through a desert land

Post by Moliere »

rrmorton wrote:I'll throw in some recommendations for Robert Byrne's pool instruction books, both of which I enjoyed:

Byrne's New Standard Book of Pool and Billiards
&
Byrne's Advanced Technique in Pool and Billiards

Great recommendation. I have the video versions.

When I bought my first house 5 years ago I put an 8' Connelly table in the living room. I used to play and practice all the time. Now I just use it for when guests come over.

PeteRock, you should check out the TAP league in Phoenix. I played there for a couple of years. You will find some good competition.

Let me know if you want to play at Skip & Jan's some time.
"The world is suffering more today from the good people who want to mind other men's business than it is from the bad people who are willing to let everybody look after their own individual affairs." - Clarence Darrow
Post Reply