[Boardgame] Race for the Galaxy

[freelunch]

has anyone played any Race for the Galaxy solitaire?

I'll be away for a week later this month, spending lots of time alone in a hotel room and I'm considering taking RftG along and learning the solo rules but I haven't played the standard game yet so I'm wondering how hard it'll be to pick up on my own...

[hepcat]

Calling Zarathud.

He and I both own the game with all the expansions and play it pretty regularly. He, however, has played the solitaire version quite a few times. If I remember correctly, he said it was fun but left him jonesing to play with other people.

[Jow]

incidentally, for those who may have missed it or don't hang out on Boardgamegeek, a user there by the name of Keldon has released an AI for the game. I haven't played it yet, but I've played well over 100 games of Blue Moon vs. the AI he created for that game. If the RftG AI is anywhere near as competent it's definitely worth checking out. Here's a link to the announcement post with link to the download:

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/438698

[LordMortis]

Jow brought the game by this weekend and while I totally such at it, I thoroughly enjoy it. It's much more in depth than San Jaun and it the added element of processing victory points over getting to 12 structures completely changes the game... So much so that I haven't quite figures out the competitive play yet. Thumbs up.

[Butterknife]

I've played the solitaire version several times. It is fun, but when you finish a game you always want to turn right around and ... play with a real person.

This game is my second-most favorite, by the way. I wish it were easier to get people to play it with me.

[edit -- Oh yeah, prepare to have the robot kick your butt several times when you play the solitaire version at first]

[Zarathud]

Race for the Galaxy is one of my must-play games. When I broke hepcat after playing a few too many times, I turned to playing solitaire against the AI robot. I consider the AI robot more of a "point simulator" rather than another player.

After playing against the AI robot, you realize the level of interaction you're missing from playing against people in the turn selection. You can set up some nice combos by guessing the options a player is likely considering, while the AI usually becomes much more random in its turn selection. Plus, the AI really doesn't play a consistent strategy.

The AI is also much slower than playing against a person -- even if they suffer from analysis paralysis. Still, the AI does a great job in developing the pacing of your mid and end-game. After the AI jumps ahead in points (6-cost developments) after a few turns, you're playing catch-up to its score. After playing two rounds at Origins, I realized that our group's game strategy had become woefully inefficient in wringing out VPs and cards. A few games against the AI will allow you to better understand the combos you NEED to score about as well. I credit the AI with keeping me in competition for the win.

OMG -- Just played with the Computer Program, and it's AWESOME!! Excuse me, I'll be in my bunk.

[hepcat]

My only problem with the game is the icons that they tried to use for gameplay mechanics. They're rather obtuse at times. I think they realized this in the expansions, though, as the newer cards seem to include additional explanations alongside the icons as well.

[LordMortis]

OMG -- Just played with the Computer Program, and it's AWESOME!! Excuse me, I'll be in my bunk.

Computer game?

[Jow]

The recently-released AI I mentioned a few posts back, I assume.

[hepcat]

The recently-released AI I mentioned a few posts back, I assume.

hol-eee-crap. thanks jow! i just downloaded and fired it up! that'll itch a scratch I sometimes get.

[Zarathud]

The recently-released AI I mentioned a few posts back, I assume.

hol-eee-crap. thanks jow! i just downloaded and fired it up! that'll itch a scratch I sometimes get.

Only if it feeds your urge to play more Race for the Galaxy, hepcat. I can't have you burning out on me so seppe is the only one who wants to play me.

[Butterknife]

That computer version of the game is absolutely awesome!

I hesitate to ask this because of the huge amount of my time it may waste ... are there any other good board games out there with single-player computer versions like this?

[Seppe]

there is a geeklist on BGG of boardgames that have computer versions available. It is a big list with varying degrees of quality and AI.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/8323/item/134488#item134488

[Chaosraven]

We played this tonight (after a couple games of N.Hex, of course) and based on the past experiences with San Juan (and Puerto Rico etc) I have to say this game is awesome.

Quick (relatively), SemiRandom, SemiStrategy.

[Jow]

Having read some of the immense strategy threads for the game on BGG, there's a lot more strategy to this than "semi", for sure. Knowing when to abandon something when it's not working and transition into something else without putting yourself way behind is huge and something I'm still learning. I'm also still figuring out how to deal with someone who's got a heavy military plateau (big produce/consume strategy seems reasonable since, unless they're real lucky, I don't think most military players can keep pace with the VPs possible in that sort of strategy)... must...play...more.

[Chaosraven]

Anything that random (based on card drawing) stays on my list as "Semi" in regards to strategy.

Same goes for N.Hex, where you are at the mercy of what you draw and what you can do with it.

[LordMortis]

We played this tonight (after a couple games of N.Hex, of course) and based on the past experiences with San Juan (and Puerto Rico etc) I have to say this game is awesome.

Quick (relatively), SemiRandom, SemiStrategy.

I already told you that. You need to be careful or soon you will start forming your own opinion.

Looks like ally'all ran late on Friday.

[LordMortis]

I accidentally redownloaded the computer version of this over the weekend and wasted hours playing it. I'm getting better at playing against the AI which is not good as I am learning AI rhythms (and plays they make which make no sense) rather than learning the game better.

I once got 98 points in a game.

I used to think the 6 player game was close to impossible to win (I won about 1 out of every 10 times or less). But now I'm winning it about 40% of the time and the 60% loss rate is always because of draws. The game happens too quickly to get out of that rut.

But now when I move to the player game I lose more often. I used to win more than fair 25% of games but now I'm well below.

The hard thing with the computer is remembering that you are playing the game, not trying to beat the AI, specifically. In a six player game against the AI, you can count on someone producing after you consume, allowing you to consume again.

I'm starting to win military builds again, which is good because you have to be flexible, a lesson I quickly forget after two or three games in a row with a win in a specific way.

I've found swaying with the cards you are dealt can do powerful things. Two consume cards from hand for VPs plus a large set of card generation not generating VPs can walk all over a game.

I've yet to figure out how to make a take over work in the sim. Remus picked up the military expansion and taught me the dynamic but I still can't make it work on the computer simulation.

There are some starts that you just can't deal with and that kind of sucks. I don't false start game right off the bat but if I can't bounce into the game about 4 to 5 turns in, I will claim the right of false start and write it up as a loss rather than playing the game through.

I am prone to putting up blinders. I won't adequately see what the computer players are doing as I pursue my own goals. Suddenly one player will be picking up 15 points a turn. I have no idea how and it wouldn't matter if I did because their machine is being fueled by other computer players.

[Jow]

This is probably my biggest problem with Race (and even then it's not a big deal): the general lack of interaction (with the base set and first expansion, anyway) means you only need a very general sense of what other players are doing other than being aware of their overall direction (military, produce/consume, etc). The greater the number of players, the greater this is compounded. In a 2 or 3 player game, there's a greater likelihood certain actions might not be chosen for a given round, making your choice of action much more important if you're trying to force your opponent(s) to have to choose the actions they need to keep their engine moving. With 4 or 5 players, suddenly the chances of a given action (settle, for example) not being drawn drop to slim to none, so you lose that level of interaction.

Trying to deprive players of needed cards (high military worlds and the like) isn't really viable either, since cards are rapidly spent and holding onto things likely hurts you more than it hurts your opponent.

Other than those two approaches, I can't think of any other way you can affect what other players are doing.

I'm really curious what's in this new expansion and how much it improves interaction. I love this game but think boosting interaction to give players options when their engine falls behind another's just due to draw luck alone is a grand idea.

I haven't downloaded the AI yet and probably won't. I share the same experience you've had, but with the Blue Moon AI, in that the AI plays so differently from any human that it really can affect your game against other organics.

[paulbaxter]

Bought this last weekend to try out with my son. He's seven, quite smart, does well at Monopoly, enjoys San Juan, Ticket to Ride (Europe), Starship Catan, etc. Trying to learn how to play from the rule book for our first game was just an exercise in frustration. They need to do what they did with some of the other complex games and make a Professor Easy book to guide you through a first game. I finally watched a three part video tutorial on Youtube just to figure out the basics of this thing.

Since it shares so many features with San Juan, I thought it would just come naturally, but I was wrong. I'll be happy to stick with it, since I've heard so many good things about it.

Anyone else tried to learn to play just from the rulebook, or did y'all have someone else teach you?

[Remus West]

Once you get the mechanics they are pretty simply actually. I stopped playing the actual game due to lack of opponenets and desire not to shuffle cards constantly. I play the computer version daily though.

[Anonymous Bosch]

Bought this last weekend to try out with my son. He's seven, quite smart, does well at Monopoly, enjoys San Juan, Ticket to Ride (Europe), Starship Catan, etc. Trying to learn how to play from the rule book for our first game was just an exercise in frustration. They need to do what they did with some of the other complex games and make a Professor Easy book to guide you through a first game. I finally watched a three part video tutorial on Youtube just to figure out the basics of this thing.

Since it shares so many features with San Juan, I thought it would just come naturally, but I was wrong. I'll be happy to stick with it, since I've heard so many good things about it.

Anyone else tried to learn to play just from the rulebook, or did y'all have someone else teach you?

I would strongly recommend you watch Wei-Hwa Huang's tutorial videos for Race for the Galaxy. They do a splendiferous job of teaching the iconography and basics of the game, and he also walks you through sample 3-player and solitaire games.

[LordMortis]

Bought this last weekend to try out with my son. He's seven, quite smart, does well at Monopoly, enjoys San Juan, Ticket to Ride (Europe), Starship Catan, etc. Trying to learn how to play from the rule book for our first game was just an exercise in frustration. They need to do what they did with some of the other complex games and make a Professor Easy book to guide you through a first game. I finally watched a three part video tutorial on Youtube just to figure out the basics of this thing.

Since it shares so many features with San Juan, I thought it would just come naturally, but I was wrong. I'll be happy to stick with it, since I've heard so many good things about it.

Anyone else tried to learn to play just from the rulebook, or did y'all have someone else teach you?

You have to get used to reading the symbols until the game just flows. I suggest playing against computer for a while (with the instructions by your side) and then teach your son:

http://keldon.net/rftg/

[Zarathud]

Not sure if we learned from the book or at Origins. I keep playing the same husband-wife team for the past 4 years at Origins, and played the designer there too.

I would be happy to answer any questions. I really love RFTG as a game, especially when you can get a combo going.

[hentzau]

Zarathud taught me how to play. I thought it was a big old muddled mess, but I kept smiling and nodding my head like I knew what I was doing.

[hepcat]

That's basically how I've faced life for the past 45 years...

[El Guapo]

I had it explained to me. It's not that complicated once you get the symbols and mechanics down, though the 'once' is a big caveat. I'd basically say do solo play and/or play with another adult until you understand the rules completely before trying to work through it with the kiddo.

[NickAragua]

My wife and I play this game quite a bit.

At first, it was pretty easy to explain to guests, took maybe five-ten minutes and then people could easily look at the cheat sheets for reference when decoding the symbolic language on the cards. I would say the base game is pretty easy to pick up and fun to play.

The biggest mistake I made was getting the three expansions, which roughly tripled the size of the deck, doubled the size of the symbolic language, introduced fifty bazillion new game mechanics and made the game completely inaccessible to newcomers. Now, whenever I think of trying to explain this game, a single tear falls from my eye as I realize the futility of the endeavor. It's still fun to play, but I hesitate to show it to hardcore gamer adults, let alone children.

Bottom line: Stick with the base game until you've got it memorized. Afterwards, you can add expansions.

[paulbaxter]

Well, so far the consume phase has been the hardest to figure out. Maybe one of you could walk me through the various things that can happen there.

[Anonymous Bosch]

Well, so far the consume phase has been the hardest to figure out. Maybe one of you could walk me through the various things that can happen there.

The gist of the Consume phase is to get rid of Goods (which you accumulate on Production and Windfall worlds in your tableau during previous phases) and receive some reward for them. The reward comes either as a Victory Point (VP) value -- shown and given in VP chips -- or sometimes as new cards that you draw from the deck. So you can think of the Consume phase as the main VP-producing part of the game, or at least one of several roads to victory. The game ends once a player has 12 or more cards in their tableau, or once the last VP chip has been handed out. So while you can win by just accumulating cards in your tableau, the VP chips can -- and most often will -- be a deciding factor in your final score.

There are two possible action cards players can choose from for the Consume phase. The first is the Consume: Trade card, and the second is Consume: 2x VPs. They're somewhat similar to the two choices for the Explore action (i.e. Explore +1 +1, or Explore +5) in that they provide different bonuses to the player(s) that chose the action. Their basic function is the same (i.e. all players consume normally, whether the Consume: Trade or Consume: 2x VPs was chosen).

With the Consume: Trade bonus, the trading takes place before regular consumption. The Trade means that the player that chose the bonus can first trade one of their Goods and get new cards from the Trade. The amount of cards received depends upon the Good type: e.g. Alien technology = 5 cards, Genes = 4 cards, Rare elements = 3 cards, Novelty = 2. Also, the player can use any Trade special powers from cards in their tableau. Special Trade powers are depicted next to the dollar sign on the left side of a card, and usually award an extra card from a trade, or some extra cards for trading a selected Good (and not other Good types). If a Trade special power needs further explanation, it should be written on the card. e.g. if you have the Pirate World in your tableau and also a Good on it –- which is a Novelty because of the blue-coloured halo of the card -- you can trade the Pirate World Good for +3 cards, which means you will get a total of 5 cards (2 for trading a Novelty, plus the bonus of +3 cards):



After you trade the one Good (if you can), you then proceed with the regular consumption phase and use the consume powers of the cards (if any) in your tableau to consume other Goods (again, if any).

The Consume: 2x VPs basically means that VPs gained in the Consume phase by the player selecting this bonus phase are doubled. There are some exceptions to this, that are mostly written on the specific cards. There's also the general rule that VPs for discarding cards from your hand are not doubled by this bonus.

Again, I would strongly recommend watching Wei-Hwa Huang's tutorial videos for Race for the Galaxy, as well as his sample 3-player game to see how everything comes together within a game. In my experience, that usually helps everything click into place for anyone unfamiliar with the game.

[paulbaxter]

I guess what has been confusing me on the consume action is that some worlds don't have a color with them, they are just grey. I assume this means that, barring other bonuses, those goods are worth nothing. Is that correct?

[Zarathud]

When consume is triggered, any planets with goods (face down cards) must be sent to planets in play with consume icons. This usually turns them into victory points or cards depending on the IV icon on the world. Unless the icon says a world can consume multiple times, it only consumes 1 good. Each player chooses the order goods are consumed, but you can't save a good for later instead of consuming it now.

Each player who triggered the consume phase can either score x2 victory points in the phase or get a special "sale" action (for himself only) of 1 good to get cards depending on the color of the world which produced the good. This is why you have 2 versions of the consume phase to choose. Worlds which give bonuses to the sales bonus have icons next to the $.

The consume phase is the economic path to lots of cards or lots of victory points. It can be used offensively to force an opponent into a suboptimal consumption -- like consuming a yellow alien good for 1 card if the other player doesn't also trigger consume with a sales bonus that turn.

Very common moves are to trigger a consume with a sales bonus after playing a green (biology) or yellow (alien) windfall world (halo color on outside) where you get the good on playing the world. A player who triggers production is likely to consume the next turn and may continue to do so in a produce/consume cycle that can be very powerful.

If you need more explanation, I can do that tonight.

[LordMortis]

I guess what has been confusing me on the consume action is that some worlds don't have a color with them, they are just grey. I assume this means that, barring other bonuses, those goods are worth nothing. Is that correct?

Grey worlds don't produce goods so there are no good to have no worth.

Blue, Brown, Green, Yellow solid produce goods when someone uses the produce action.
Blue, Brown, Green, Yellow haloed produce goods when someone uses the produce action only if something triggers them to produce but they they get a good when waiting to be consumed when they come in to play. Solid worlds don't.

Consume/Trade says that you must consume every blue, brown, green, and yellow resource you can. It is up to you to find the best ways to consume them, so you run through all of the powers of your planets until either all resources are used or all of your planets consume/trade abilities are used. You only get the option to trade if you are the player who chose trade or you have a planet that grants you the ability to trade.

[Anonymous Bosch]

I guess what has been confusing me on the consume action is that some worlds don't have a color with them, they are just grey. I assume this means that, barring other bonuses, those goods are worth nothing. Is that correct?

Grey worlds cannot hold a Good, as they are neither Production nor Windfall worlds. They do not provide you with any kind of Good, but usually benefit you in other ways (e.g. their special powers).

[paulbaxter]

I guess what has been confusing me on the consume action is that some worlds don't have a color with them, they are just grey. I assume this means that, barring other bonuses, those goods are worth nothing. Is that correct?

Grey worlds cannot hold a Good, as they are neither Production nor Windfall worlds. They do not provide you with any kind of Good, but usually benefit you in other ways (e.g. their special powers).

That's what I needed. I actually downloaded the computer version a long time ago, but I only tried it once. The game is confusing enough to learn with the rule book

If there's a decent way to play with one (or more) of you on line, I'd love to do that, just to be able to chat through what's going on. I'm sure I'll get it eventually.