Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell
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Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell
Well let's see. 30% of female veterans admit to being sexually assaulted while in the service. The Pentagon figures assaults are up and over 90% of all assaults go unreported. Mostly for fear of retaliation. There are no numbers on the girls that compromise themselves because of the situation they were in. This ain't no dorm room.
So before they can get this straightened out they'll allow gays not only in, but integrated in with straight young boys. So you have to figure at least half of all future veterans will be sexually assaulted while serving. Yep that's the place we'll all be proud to send our kids off to.
You ideological Democrats are just as close minded and dangerous as the Republicans.
So before they can get this straightened out they'll allow gays not only in, but integrated in with straight young boys. So you have to figure at least half of all future veterans will be sexually assaulted while serving. Yep that's the place we'll all be proud to send our kids off to.
You ideological Democrats are just as close minded and dangerous as the Republicans.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell
I don't follow this logic. Explain.tripcrow wrote:So before they can get this straightened out they'll allow gays not only in, but integrated in with straight young boys. So you have to figure at least half of all future veterans will be sexually assaulted while serving.
Insert witty comment here.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell
I like how you paint the straight people as boys (even the women?)... Makes them seem more defenseless and pure? Or are they allowing underage people in now?
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell
What The? I don't even...
First of all, there are lots of homosexual servicemen and women already. Many, many other countries have fully integrated armed forces. Sexual assault is a problem. It's just not going to get worse with DADT being repealed.
First of all, there are lots of homosexual servicemen and women already. Many, many other countries have fully integrated armed forces. Sexual assault is a problem. It's just not going to get worse with DADT being repealed.
They're going to send you back to mother in a cardboard box...
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell
Fuckin' A! I'd be very proud to send my son to find IEDs the easy way in a decade long idealogical war against guerillas, but I just couldn't bear it if some fag tried to kiss him...tripcrow wrote: Yep that's the place we'll all be proud to send our kids off to.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell
Gay panic is always so fascinating to watch.tripcrow wrote:Well let's see. 30% of female veterans admit to being sexually assaulted while in the service. The Pentagon figures assaults are up and over 90% of all assaults go unreported. Mostly for fear of retaliation. There are no numbers on the girls that compromise themselves because of the situation they were in. This ain't no dorm room.
So before they can get this straightened out they'll allow gays not only in, but integrated in with straight young boys. So you have to figure at least half of all future veterans will be sexually assaulted while serving. Yep that's the place we'll all be proud to send our kids off to.
You ideological Democrats are just as close minded and dangerous as the Republicans.
Even with DADT repealed, everyone knows that the cultural climate of the military will remain homophobic for a long time. The repeal of DADT is not going to lead to an influx of Out & Proud soldiers. It just means that gay soldiers can join up and stay in without worrying about having their careers trashed if their are identified.
The point you're trying to make is nonsensical. How does allowing gays to serve without fear of expulsion threaten to raise the levels of sexual assault?
Last edited by Holman on Sat Dec 18, 2010 4:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell
And it's official. Woooo!
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell
If 30% of female vets admit to being assaulted the number assaulted must be higher than that. No?
If gay men are as likely to assault men as gay women and straight men are to assault women, then one can assume that 30% of male vets will be assaulted.
Also consider, and you would if it was your kid, a servicemen that agrees to having sex because they are in a situation where fear or well-being are the primary reasons they agree to compromising themselves to sexual advances as a victim of an assault.
So yes I'm guessing at 50%. It depends on the number of gays that join. But what percentage would you feel safe at sending your kid off? 33%? 20%? How about 10%? How does a 1 in 10 chance that some guy will cornhole your son sound? Be freakin reasonable.
I used the term boys because I joined at 17 years 2 weeks old and when I look back I was an innocent boy. And because obviously, if you were open minded on the subject, you'd realize the younger are the most likely to be abused?
If gay men are as likely to assault men as gay women and straight men are to assault women, then one can assume that 30% of male vets will be assaulted.
Also consider, and you would if it was your kid, a servicemen that agrees to having sex because they are in a situation where fear or well-being are the primary reasons they agree to compromising themselves to sexual advances as a victim of an assault.
So yes I'm guessing at 50%. It depends on the number of gays that join. But what percentage would you feel safe at sending your kid off? 33%? 20%? How about 10%? How does a 1 in 10 chance that some guy will cornhole your son sound? Be freakin reasonable.
I used the term boys because I joined at 17 years 2 weeks old and when I look back I was an innocent boy. And because obviously, if you were open minded on the subject, you'd realize the younger are the most likely to be abused?
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell
When I hear the angry reactions to each and every step towards treating gays (and women, and non-Christians, and people of different damn skin colors) as full and equal human beings, I am thankful for the First Amendment.
And the Second.
And the Second.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell
Wouldn't the Fourth be more appropriate in this instance?Mr. Fed wrote:When I hear the angry reactions to each and every step towards treating gays (and women, and non-Christians, and people of different damn skin colors) as full and equal human beings, I am thankful for the First Amendment.
And the Second.
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Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell
You know it ain't enough what these people have to go through and try and live with the rest of their lives. Now you gotta go dump this shit on them too. And then try and paint it as red, white, and blue.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell
No.Pyperkub wrote:Wouldn't the Fourth be more appropriate in this instance?Mr. Fed wrote:When I hear the angry reactions to each and every step towards treating gays (and women, and non-Christians, and people of different damn skin colors) as full and equal human beings, I am thankful for the First Amendment.
And the Second.
Because I expect this to inspire a serious upswing in the rhetoric calling for violent revolution in order to "restore" "American values."
The Second Amendment helps me be prepared for defending against such people.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell
First off, do you have a cite that 30% of women are assaulted while in the service?tripcrow wrote:If 30% of female vets admit to being assaulted the number assaulted must be higher than that. No?
If gay men are as likely to assault men as gay women and straight men are to assault women, then one can assume that 30% of male vets will be assaulted.
Also consider, and you would if it was your kid, a servicemen that agrees to having sex because they are in a situation where fear or well-being are the primary reasons they agree to compromising themselves to sexual advances as a victim of an assault.
So yes I'm guessing at 50%. It depends on the number of gays that join. But what percentage would you feel safe at sending your kid off? 33%? 20%? How about 10%? How does a 1 in 10 chance that some guy will cornhole your son sound? Be freakin reasonable.
I used the term boys because I joined at 17 years 2 weeks old and when I look back I was an innocent boy. And because obviously, if you were open minded on the subject, you'd realize the younger are the most likely to be abused?
Second, if it's accurate, and it it's so dangerous, shouldn't we prevent all straight men from serving so those 30% don't get assaulted?
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell
By your logic, any reasonable parent should absolutely forbid his or her daughter from joining the U.S. military. Is that the case?tripcrow wrote:If 30% of female vets admit to being assaulted the number assaulted must be higher than that. No?
If gay men are as likely to assault men as gay women and straight men are to assault women, then one can assume that 30% of male vets will be assaulted.
Also consider, and you would if it was your kid, a servicemen that agrees to having sex because they are in a situation where fear or well-being are the primary reasons they agree to compromising themselves to sexual advances as a victim of an assault.
So yes I'm guessing at 50%. It depends on the number of gays that join. But what percentage would you feel safe at sending your kid off? 33%? 20%? How about 10%? How does a 1 in 10 chance that some guy will cornhole your son sound? Be freakin reasonable.
The pattern of sexual assault in the military is nearly all hetero males assaulting females. The reason most of it goes overlooked or unreported is that the female victim usually has to report it to another male, who has a lot invested in not rocking the boat of good-old-boy military culture.
Ask yourself if that good-old-boy military culture is likely to wrap its loving arms around homosexuals who assault other soldiers.
Patterns of assault also have a lot to do with the gender imbalance in the military itself. It's still a boys' club. Some men feel that they can treat female soldiers roughly because the females don't belong or because it's all part of being the service. Do you think many gay soldiers will feel that same empowerment when they make up, say, 5% of the service and they are still treated (as they will be) as outsiders?
I'm sure there will be some case of male-on-male sexual assault or female-on-female sexual assault in the military some time in the next ten years. I'm equally sure that the conservative media will leap on it and treat as if it is somehow rampant. (And I'm absolutely sure that the same people will ignore the patterns of heterosexual assault that you have already pointed out *are* rampant.)
If I had to guess, I'd say that a military that has to adapt itself to the existence of gays will be *less* prone to treat sexual assault as no big deal.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell
The statistics are different for male victims of sexual assault and female victims of sexual assualt. In general, 1 in 6 women and 1 in 33 men will be a victim of sexual assault in their lifetime.
It's not unreasonable to expect those willing to volunteer for the military would be generally more prone or willing to engage to violence. From there, it's not too much to anticipate an increased risk potential for sexual assualt. Using the prior female vet statistic, the risk appears to double from 16% to 30%. If the same applies, the increased risk for men would run from 3% to 6%. Those statistics are hardly a reason for gay panic.
If you're willing to die for your country, you should have that opportunity. Bullets don't discriminate.
It's not unreasonable to expect those willing to volunteer for the military would be generally more prone or willing to engage to violence. From there, it's not too much to anticipate an increased risk potential for sexual assualt. Using the prior female vet statistic, the risk appears to double from 16% to 30%. If the same applies, the increased risk for men would run from 3% to 6%. Those statistics are hardly a reason for gay panic.
If you're willing to die for your country, you should have that opportunity. Bullets don't discriminate.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell
Of course not.Holman wrote:The repeal of DADT is not going to lead to an influx of Out & Proud soldiers.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell
Zekester, is that you?
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell
""They will do what is asked of them," McCain said of service members. "But don't think there won't be a great cost."
I only wish there was a way to make all those selfcentered assholes that hold gay inclusion in society more important than our servicemen pay that price 10 times over.
I only wish there was a way to make all those selfcentered assholes that hold gay inclusion in society more important than our servicemen pay that price 10 times over.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell
Yeah, but they're not. In the majority of sexual assaults perpetrated against straight men, the assailant is another man who would also identify himself as straight.tripcrow wrote:If gay men are as likely to assault men as gay women and straight men are to assault women, then one can assume that 30% of male vets will be assaulted.
(Edit: Incidentally, these types of assaults frequently occur in circumstances where many men are together without women. Like the military. Prisons. Hazing for frats and sports teams....)
wot?
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To be fair, adolescent power fantasy tripe is way easier to write than absurd existential horror, and every community has got to start somewhere... right?
Unless one loses a precious thing, he will never know its true value. A little light finally scratches the darkness; it lets the exhausted one face his shattered dream and realize his path cannot be walked. Can man live happily without embracing his wounded heart?
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell
The OP struck me as a tremendous trolling attempt. That said, woot to the repeal!
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell
The military's leaders conducted an extensive survey into the impact of this change -- a change which every major civilized nation has already undergone, without the dire consequences you state -- and concluded that it would be minimally disruptive. In the end, the value of letting every American willing to put on a uniform and serve, and perhaps die, for his or her country outweighs the hysterical concerns of gay haters like you.
This is a great day for our nation, and will make the pool of talented, qualified military recruits larger, and thus in the end will make our military stronger and the rest of us safer.
This is a great day for our nation, and will make the pool of talented, qualified military recruits larger, and thus in the end will make our military stronger and the rest of us safer.
Wed Oct 20, 2004 1:17 am
Zarathud: The sad thing is that Barak Obama is a very intelligent and articulate person, even when you disagree with his views it's clear that he's very thoughtful. I would have loved to see Obama in a real debate.
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Zarathud: The sad thing is that Barak Obama is a very intelligent and articulate person, even when you disagree with his views it's clear that he's very thoughtful. I would have loved to see Obama in a real debate.
Me: Wait 12 years, when he runs for president. :-)
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell
Winner of "How many logical fallacies and erroneous assumptions can you squeeze into one sentence"!tripcrow wrote: If gay men are as likely to assault men as gay women and straight men are to assault women, then one can assume that 30% of male vets will be assaulted.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell
seriously.Fireball1244 wrote:The military's leaders conducted an extensive survey into the impact of this change -- a change which every major civilized nation has already undergone, without the dire consequences you state -- and concluded that it would be minimally disruptive. In the end, the value of letting every American willing to put on a uniform and serve, and perhaps die, for his or her country outweighs the hysterical concerns of gay haters like you.
This is a great day for our nation, and will make the pool of talented, qualified military recruits larger, and thus in the end will make our military stronger and the rest of us safer.
I can't fathom the argument that a body that already assaults thirty percent of women in their ranks (to ND, I've seen studies that put the # higher) needs protecting from a small percentage of gay men who already are looked down upon and isolated from the general culture.
I can't help but picture some queen in a hard hat holding down a construction worker while the rest of the roughnecks run in terror.
WTF.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell
What price will the servicemen pay, exactly?tripcrow wrote:I only wish there was a way to make all those selfcentered assholes that hold gay inclusion in society more important than our servicemen pay that price 10 times over.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell
This self centered asshole holds that US servicemen for more than two centuries have died to uphold certain ideals, and that a current hiccup in our society has resulted in us violating those ideals.
This move reaffirms what centuries of our servicemen have paid that price to protect.
This move reaffirms what centuries of our servicemen have paid that price to protect.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell
Hide your wife, hide your kids, hide your soldiers too: They be raping everybody.Exodor wrote:What price will the servicemen pay, exactly?tripcrow wrote:I only wish there was a way to make all those selfcentered assholes that hold gay inclusion in society more important than our servicemen pay that price 10 times over.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell
If this was the beginning of the AI invasion, it just failed my Turing test.tripcrow wrote:Well let's see. 30% of female veterans admit to being sexually assaulted while in the service. The Pentagon figures assaults are up and over 90% of all assaults go unreported. Mostly for fear of retaliation. There are no numbers on the girls that compromise themselves because of the situation they were in. This ain't no dorm room.
So before they can get this straightened out they'll allow gays not only in, but integrated in with straight young boys. So you have to figure at least half of all future veterans will be sexually assaulted while serving. Yep that's the place we'll all be proud to send our kids off to.
You ideological Democrats are just as close minded and dangerous as the Republicans.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell
Ah, be not deceived PLW. The Truing test can only measure an AI as compared to human intelligence. And as we can see here, if indeed they are humans, that isn't necessarily the best.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell
obviouslytripcrow wrote:Ah, be not deceived PLW. The Truing test can only measure an AI as compared to human intelligence. And as we can see here, if indeed they are humans, that isn't necessarily the best.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell
I am filled with joy that they thought to program you to give such an eloquent response to that.tripcrow wrote:Ah, be not deceived PLW. The Truing test can only measure an AI as compared to human intelligence. And as we can see here, if indeed they are humans, that isn't necessarily the best.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell
What an excellent surprise! Kudos to the 8 Republicans who bucked their party and helped knock this bigotry down.
Ever the gracious loser, here's McCain channeling a bitter old man.
Ever the gracious loser, here's McCain channeling a bitter old man.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell
I'm thrilled they finally managed to get this done. This is long overdue and helps correct a serious injustice that has been perpetrated to a lot of excellent service people that this country sorely needs.
The OP is flat out nuts, btw.
The OP is flat out nuts, btw.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell
On Monday I have a few a people to talk to who claimed they would retire if this ever happened. Now we have to deal with how we are going to get separate bathrooms and dorms for them all.
I am betting that life doesn't change at all. The debates on Monday are going to be awesome though.
I am betting that life doesn't change at all. The debates on Monday are going to be awesome though.
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2010 Totals: Biking: 65 miles Running: 393 miles
2009 Finals: Biking: 93 miles Running: 158 miles (I know it sucked, but I had a hernia most of the year)
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell
I'm betting the foxhole talk is going to go something like this:
Jim: "Joe, we've served together since 2004, and I just want to get it off my chest. I'm gay."
Joe: "Well, duh."
Jim: "Joe, we've served together since 2004, and I just want to get it off my chest. I'm gay."
Joe: "Well, duh."
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell
I am glad that it was repealed.
There was a lot of work done to get people to become aware of it.
I highly doubt that gay men will just start assaulting people. THOUGH. I would not be surprised to find straight men finding reason to start assaulting gay men. We'll see how it works out.
There was a lot of work done to get people to become aware of it.
I highly doubt that gay men will just start assaulting people. THOUGH. I would not be surprised to find straight men finding reason to start assaulting gay men. We'll see how it works out.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell
"In the middle of a military conflict is not the time to do it," said Saxby Chambliss, R-Georgia.
These lads have a message for us, if only we could hear them.
These lads have a message for us, if only we could hear them.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell
Does that mean over 300% of female veterans have been sexually assaulted while in the service? If so, that should be some kind of record.tripcrow wrote:Well let's see. 30% of female veterans admit to being sexually assaulted while in the service. The Pentagon figures assaults are up and over 90% of all assaults go unreported.
Insert witty comment here.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell
As I skim this thread, I can feel my IQ dropping.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell
I thought the Pentagon report concluded that they wouldn't create separate facilities?Lee wrote:On Monday I have a few a people to talk to who claimed they would retire if this ever happened. Now we have to deal with how we are going to get separate bathrooms and dorms for them all.
Black Lives Matter.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell
My brother is in the local theater scene, which has a pretty high percentage of homosexuals. As a result I've been around a lot of gay dudes. I've talked to them at length, I've hung out with them, we've been to family gatherings together - these guys aren't serial rapists waiting for an opportunity to grab your dick. They're interested in other gay dudes. Admittedly I'm talking anecdotal evidence of a small group, but I've never seen the slightest indication that any of these guys would actively pursue a guy they knew was straight. As pointed out somewhere above, it's FAR more likely it's the homosexual that's going to be assaulted in this scenario.
It seriously worries me and confounds me that we continue to discriminate against people who were born biologically wired a different way. I 100% believe that discrimination against homosexuals is exactly the same as saying "black people can't get married" or "Asian people can't serve in the military." There's no difference. We, as a country, have been through enough shit in our history relating to discrimination that we should not be repeating the same mistakes over and over and over again.
It seriously worries me and confounds me that we continue to discriminate against people who were born biologically wired a different way. I 100% believe that discrimination against homosexuals is exactly the same as saying "black people can't get married" or "Asian people can't serve in the military." There's no difference. We, as a country, have been through enough shit in our history relating to discrimination that we should not be repeating the same mistakes over and over and over again.