Occupy Wallstreet people are Nucking Futs!

[Little Raven]

Linking arms is now considered an act of violence by police.

The videos taken by protesters, journalists and casual observers show UC Berkeley police and Alameda County sheriff's deputies in riot gear ordering students with linked arms to leave a grassy area outside the campus administration building Wednesday. When the students didn't move, police lowered their face shields and began hitting the protesters with batons.

University police say the students, who chanted "You're beating students" during the incident, were not innocent bystanders, and that the human fence they tried to build around seven tents amounted to a violent stance against police.

...

"The individuals who linked arms and actively resisted, that in itself is an act of violence," UC police Capt. Margo Bennett said. "I understand that many students may not think that, but linking arms in a human chain when ordered to step aside is not a nonviolent protest."

[GreenGoo]

Sigh.

[Covenant72]

And this is the point where all the "partyers" will give up and go home. I'll be interested in seeing what happens to the movement and popular opinion now that they are dealing with real resistence.

[GreenGoo]

And this is the point where all the "partyers" will give up and go home. I'll be interested in seeing what happens to the movement and popular opinion now that they are dealing with real resistence.

I'm more interested in finding out who authorized beating people with sticks for the crime of non-compliance. We both have something we're curious about!

[Covenant72]

Civil Disobediance relies on these sorts of things happening, so the public at large will pay attention and force change. If nobody cares, then change can't happen.

[Little Raven]

New ruling on OWS in New York.

Go get em, NYPD.

[Zarathud]

Violence does not mean what you think it means, Mr. Policeman.

[Scuzz]

Violence does not mean what you think it means, Mr. Policeman.

The protesters who don't think things will turn violent are the ones who have never picked up a history book or read a newspaper.

Cops ask protesters to leave, protesters don't, cops react accordingly. Let the games begin.
They all know the rules.

[Smoove_B]

Wonkette is suggesting that the various crackdowns nationwide were coordinate by Homeland Security. That certainly makes me...uncomfortable.

[$iljanus]

"Hey man, watch the hair. And the $120 jeans. Hold on a sec while my buddy takes a pic on his iPhone!"

[GreenGoo]

"Hey man, watch the hair. And the $120 jeans. Hold on a sec while my buddy takes a pic on his iPhone!"

[LawBeefaroni]

Wonkette is suggesting that the various crackdowns nationwide were coordinate by Homeland Security. That certainly makes me...uncomfortable.

It's great practice.

[Alefroth]

"Hey man, watch the hair. And the $120 jeans. Hold on a sec while my buddy takes a pic on his iPhone!"

Guess that disabuses the myth that the protesters are unwashed, jobless, hippies.

Ale

[GreenGoo]

Guess that disabuses the myth that the protesters are unwashed, jobless, hippies.

Ale

It would if I could understand where the caption comes from.

[coopasonic]

Guess that disabuses the myth that the protesters are unwashed, jobless, hippies.

Ale

It would if I could understand where the caption comes from.

I'm with GG, that guy looks like an unwashed, jobless hippie.

[Pyperkub]

Guess that disabuses the myth that the protesters are unwashed, jobless, hippies.

Ale

It would if I could understand where the caption comes from.

I'm with GG, that guy looks like an unwashed, jobless hippie.

Looks more like someone living at home with their parents, or at least on their dime.

However, those are the people most affected by the actions of the 1% in this case. It's their futures that are being bankrupted by the 1% using their money to influence politics and regulation to benefit the 1%.

[LawBeefaroni]

Now this is just making it way too easy for the police:

[Enough]

Actually someone did a survey recently and found more OWS folks have jobs than Tea Partiers. And based on the age range of our local Tea sample being skewed heavily to ancient I'm not surprised.

Edit: and now I give you Twitter Tweet forensics on OWS and Tea Party postings.

[Alefroth]

Guess that disabuses the myth that the protesters are unwashed, jobless, hippies.

Ale

It would if I could understand where the caption comes from.

I'm with GG, that guy looks like an unwashed, jobless hippie.

Is that what GG is saying?

Ale

[Alefroth]

Guess that disabuses the myth that the protesters are unwashed, jobless, hippies.

Ale

It would if I could understand where the caption comes from.

I'm with GG, that guy looks like an unwashed, jobless hippie.

Looks more like someone living at home with their parents, or at least on their dime.

How in the world do you come to that conclusion?

Ale

[Biyobi]

Guess that disabuses the myth that the protesters are unwashed, jobless, hippies.

Ale

It would if I could understand where the caption comes from.

I'm with GG, that guy looks like an unwashed, jobless hippie.

Looks more like someone living at home with their parents, or at least on their dime.

How in the world do you come to that conclusion?

Ale

It's his nephew.

[Kraken]

Occupy Boston got a court injunction preventing the police from evicting them, at least until a Dec. 1 hearing.

While the city maintained in court that it had no current plans to evict the protesters, Judge Frances A. McIntyre said she was, for now, ruling in favor of the protesters to protect their right to express their views on public property.

“The abridgement of First Amendment rights is an irreparable crime,’’ McIntyre said. “The potential for irreparable harm to the plaintiff is very real.’’

...

“It’s beside the point, Your Honor, if the City of Boston has or has not done something yet,’’ Cooper said. “There is an imminent threat of the impairment of civil rights in the middle of the night.’’

[Pyperkub]

Guess that disabuses the myth that the protesters are unwashed, jobless, hippies.

Ale

It would if I could understand where the caption comes from.

I'm with GG, that guy looks like an unwashed, jobless hippie.

Looks more like someone living at home with their parents, or at least on their dime.

How in the world do you come to that conclusion?

Ale

Sheer baseless speculation, what else?

Epic 4g/Tapatalk

[Matrix]

New York had some call to action day after they evicted on tuesday. Now they are occupying subways too, since 1% is clearly riding those subways....

If this goes a little longer and into spring, since it just starting to get cold, this can get really nasty. I can see how at some points gangs will see it to their advantage to "support" a movement and use it as shroud, and violent crime will skyrocket. What annoys me is the people are complaying about jobs, yet college educated employment is 4.5% nation wide and if we look in Europe they are way way worse off. Spain, Greece, Itally they screwed bad. And here we have ignorant bunch running around crying me a river. I can see why in Arab countries they revolted, the standards of living there was autracious. But in US? really?! maybe government will just print out those jobs. I think protesters just have nothing to compare too, they should visit Russia just for giggles. yes life is not a picnic, but forgive all my college debt.... give us jobs.... ummm, i don't think government has that kind of magic powers. Welcome to global economy. We should note that our average standards of living are amazingly higher than any time before and yet we have this ignorance who find a way to blame "1%" excuse and make it a tangible by finding scape goat.

[GreenGoo]

Lol.

[Rip]

I am hoping for a wicked ass blizzard to hit the north soon. Then we will see how dedicated they are.

[Fitzy]

I am hoping for a wicked ass blizzard to hit the north soon. Then we will see how dedicated they are.

Pretty damn dedicated considering they are already standing up to lightsabers!

[LordMortis]

Whoda guessed that OWS would start to focus on people who took out way too much debt in college and now think they have the right not to pay it back?

http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2011 ... s.facebook" target="_blank

Applebaum -- along with many of the protesters -- sees it differently. The notion of "good debt" is a lie, he says. "In the last 30 years, we've turned education into a commodity," he says. "We used to fund higher education through a series of grants and scholarships and savings. We've lied to a generation of Americans by telling them it's quote-unquote 'good debt.' We've sold them a bill of goods."

You know it. I've been saying that for years, even while I was still in college. So you bought the lie. I did too. What do you want done about it?

By the time I pay off my debt, I will have paid the government double what I borrowed

No shit Sherlock. By the time I pay off my house I will have paid the banks 2.5 times what I borrowed. That's how it works. Maybe you or your parents should have considered this before taking the loans.

If we start giving away higher education and room and board to pursue it, I'm quitting my job tomorrow, walking away from my mortgage, and going back to school.


It's like they want me to become teapartier, just to say "why don't you just fuck off"? I think the last bit of empathy I had for this group has worn down to the knuckle. Everything they put in front of me is beginning to get under my skin.

[GreenGoo]

I don't have a huge amount of sympathy for those paying back student loans either, but you seem to have a particular dislike for them, LM. Which is fine, I guess, just noteworthy. I'm not sure why you think the OWS movement should be judged by the people who's situations are they ones you hate, but we all have our prejudices.

Of course I live in a country with heavily subsidized universities, so while there is a bill for attending university (and it is substantial) it's not normally as much as a mortgage, so my perspective is probably skewed.

The various protests around Canada are all about to get a simultaneous boot off the properties they are occupying, as the various governments with jurisdiction in each city announce they intend to put an end to the protests, or at least evict the protesters.

Might be interesting, but more likely just anti-climatic.

[Enough]

Fox News says in response to UC Davis pepper-spraying,

“Pepper spray, that just burns your eyes, right?” O’Reilly asked Kelly.

“Right,” Kelly said. “I mean, its like a derivative of actual pepper. It’s a food product, essentially.”

Now that I know it's food grade, I can't wait for Friday night when some friends and I are going to pepper-spray our eyes for kicks.

[GreenGoo]

"that just burns the eyes, right?"

Lol. Who the hell thinks burning their eyeballs is a harmless action? There's a reason it fucking hurts, even if full recovery is possible.

[silverjon]

I haven't been following the Occupy Edmonton movement much, but the park they've occupied is actually privately owned. The company tolerated them for over a month, I believe, but has now served them with an eviction notice. Local police have said they're not going to remove the protestors.

[silverjon]

I think we can turn to Jean Chretien for a few choice words on pepper spray and protestors
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWf2LLaHkM0" target="_blank

[LordMortis]

I don't have a huge amount of sympathy for those paying back student loans either, but you seem to have a particular dislike for them, LM. Which is fine, I guess, just noteworthy. I'm not sure why you think the OWS movement should be judged by the people who's situations are they ones you hate, but we all have our prejudices.

Of course I live in a country with heavily subsidized universities, so while there is a bill for attending university (and it is substantial) it's not normally as much as a mortgage, so my perspective is probably skewed.

The various protests around Canada are all about to get a simultaneous boot off the properties they are occupying, as the various governments with jurisdiction in each city announce they intend to put an end to the protests, or at least evict the protesters.

Might be interesting, but more likely just anti-climatic.

Day or Rage started out with the big complaint that they weren't getting press. I sympathized with that. The message before press happened was Wallstreet is corrupt and the shortsighted pursuit of a corrupt wallstreet sleeping with Congress is destroying this country and we need to change. I empathize with that. OWS quickly splintered in to those beefs... and drum circles... and people complaining about their mortgages... and people complaining about paying for higher education and having too much debt before they've even started life. This complaint came to forefront. So much so that our Federal government moved toward increasing the hand outs of more free college money, something Obama has already been doing like crazy. And as time goes on the press OWS wanted is focusing more on this message. And the people who back OWS support this press and this message and this press, so that's what is reaching me, what they hold up as example of the change we need politically in this country makes blood boil and I am very much reactionary in my opinion. I found myself getting more and more liberal as grow older. But the political environment of the last three years has reversed all of that, even as I despise the republican party (of no).


In short and less rambling mode, the "I don't want to pay back my loan" crowd are the only ones that have shown to be effective at all and they've been effective in ways that I don't like. They want to be rewarded for their gullibility and short sighted approach to life. Much like the people they are protesting. And they're winning. And while they're winning, they still cry "victim."...

OK maybe that wasn't less rambling... This does appear to be the hill I'll die on.

[Combustible Lemur]

I don't really disagree too much, but it's telling that universities are the largest shareholders on wall street. Well, except California Teachers.
Universities are a racket, and we just keep feeding them unprepared and inappropriate freshmen.

[Isgrimnur]

Oh, yeah, pepper spray is harmless. Except to all those pasty, white kids with asthma:

My own purpose here is to focus on the dangers of a high level of capsaicin exposure. But as pointed out in the 2004 paper, Health Hazards of Pepper Spray, written by health researchers at the University of North Carolina and Duke University, the sprays contain other risky materials:

Depending on brand, an OC spray may contain water, alcohols, or organic solvents as liquid carriers; and nitrogen, carbon dioxide, or halogenated hydrocarbons (such as Freon, tetrachloroethylene, and methylene chloride) as propellants to discharge the canister contents.(3) Inhalation of high doses of some of these chemicals can produce adverse cardiac, respiratory, and neurologic effects, including arrhythmias and sudden death.

...
The more worrisome effects have to do with inhalation – and by some reports, California university police officers deliberately put OC spray down protestors throats. Capsaicins inflame the airways, causing swelling and restriction. And this means that pepper sprays pose a genuine risk to people with asthma and other respiratory conditions.

And by genuine risk, I mean a known risk, a no-surprise any police department should know this risk, easy enough to find in the scientific literature. To cite just three examples here:

1) Pepper Spray Induced Respiratory Failure Treated with Extracorporeal Membrane Oxygenation

2) Assessing the incapacitative effects of pepper spray during resistive encounters with the police.

3) The Human Health Effects of Pepper Spray.

That second paper is from a law enforcement journal. And the summary for that last paper notes: Studies of the effects of capsaicin on human physiology, anecdotal experience with field use of pepper spray, and controlled exposure of correctional officers in training have shown adverse effects on the lungs, larynx, middle airway, protective reflexes, and skin. Behavioral and mental health effects also may occur if pepper spray is used abusively.

Pepper spray use has been suspected of contributing to a number of deaths that occurred in police custody. In mid-1990s, the U.S. Department of Justice cited nearly 70 fatalities linked to pepper-spray use, following on a 1995 report compiled by the American Civil Liberties Union of California. The ACLU report cited 26 suspicious deaths; it’s important to note that most involved pre-existing conditions such as asthma. But it’s also important to note a troubling pattern.

[LordMortis]

Universities are a racket, and we just keep feeding them unprepared and inappropriate freshmen.

I don't know if they are but it sure seems like they are. I figure in Michigan universities are a lot like the health care system. You never see how much they cost because a resident takes 50% right off the top. Then if you actually belong in college, you get free money for doing well on the ACT. Then you apply for financial aid based on need. Then you begin going to the Fed for subsidy and tax breaks and credits. Then if you can demonstrate need you can a chunk of your loan forgiven. Then the universities beg for money from the alumni.

And yet the teachers at the universities make very little and the universities play games to keep them from making money according to their work the way WalMart would.

As to feeding on freshman, that's a cultural thing that needs to change. That needs to start with parents and secondary schooling. Nothing to be done for the suckers who have gone through the system. We paid our dues, we took our chances and quite frankly we got a lot for the money we put in out of pocket, or we should have anyway.

[Zarathud]

In short and less rambling mode, the "I don't want to pay back my loan" crowd are the only ones that have shown to be effective at all and they've been effective in ways that I don't like. They want to be rewarded for their gullibility and short sighted approach to life. Much like the people they are protesting. And they're winning. And while they're winning, they still cry "victim."...

OK maybe that wasn't less rambling... This does appear to be the hill I'll die on.

Getting pepper sprayed in the face is a strange definition of "winning." And what specific new legislation has passed in response to OWS? Or to increase the "crazy" student loan give-aways? I just don't see the facts justifying your reactions.

I don't understand the vilification of unemployed college graduates. Why does having expectations for your future after going to college make you gullible and short-sighted? They're collectively not CHOOSING to be unemployed or living at home. That's the bad economy at work.

In my view, the cry is "I cannot find a job to earn money to pay back my loan." U.S. education policy has assumed employment demand for the college educated.

[Isgrimnur]

According to the DOL, if you're over 25, there's a > 95% demand for college graduates. So I guess they just need to wait four years...?

Even so, I worked at the same company for 4.5 years of schooling, graduated right after the dot com bust, and spent another 4 years there, never making more than $11/hour. I got the work experience to make myself a valuable commodity by working in jobs that I was "over-educated" for until such time as I could get my first "big boy" job four years ago at the age of 31.

Yes, the economy is bad, and there are a lot of career fields, especially those that rely on government money, that are seeing the retrenchment that my industry weathered in 2000. And I do have sympathy for them, but I don't see these protesters being willing to sign up for WPA-style jobs even if the government offered them as a dual-targeted solution to unemployment and addressing infrastructure needs.

[noxiousdog]

I don't understand the vilification of unemployed college graduates. Why does having expectations for your future after going to college make you gullible and short-sighted? They're collectively not CHOOSING to be unemployed or living at home. That's the bad economy at work.

In my view, the cry is "I cannot find a job to earn money to pay back my loan." U.S. education policy has assumed employment demand for the college educated.

Or are they not willing to take jobs that are available? Did they not get a marketable degree? Are they not willing to relocate? Is it very regional?

Conventional wisdom has always said that in a downturn, the old and expensive get laid off for the young and cheap.

Is this one of the other things that is different this time?

I don't know, but I'm skeptical that overall there aren't jobs available for college grads. They might not be at the pay they want. Might not be the job they want. But in a 95% employment (college grads) situation, I find it difficult to believe it's impossible to find a job.

I know we did some interviews recently, and were horrified at the prospect of hiring what was available. Luckily we got a competent person just before we settled on the least bad candidate. Granted it's a more technical field, and I'm not generalizing, but I'd like to see some real data/research either way.

Regardless, how many months is this going on, and we still don't know what they are protesting. What is it that would satisfy them and let them go home?