[TV] Fringe spoilers welcome

[tgb]

Did they ever explain how Walternate discovered what happened to (his) Peter? I don't remember seeing it. It's some leap from "My son is missing" to "My son's been taken by my double from a parallel world as the opening salvo of a war".

Yes, in the episode "Subject 13" from Season 3. Excellent summary about the sketchbook from the wiki:

Spoiler:

One of Walter's subjects is young Olivia Dunham, aka "Subject 13". Walter suspects Olivia's stepfather is abusing her based on scars she carries and frightening drawings in her sketchbook, but Olivia refuses to talk about it. One night, as Olivia is about to be struck by her stepfather, she temporarily finds herself in a different place; the next day, she draws what she saw in her book, a zeppelin. Walter realizes that Olivia crossed over to the parallel universe, and can be the means for returning Peter. Walter puts Olivia under several tests to try to coax her ability to cross over, eventually eliminating all but fear as catalysts. He arranges a traumatic test for Olivia, but instead of crossing over, she exhibits pyrokinesis and sets the room afire. In the confusion in putting it out, she disappears.

Peter, discovering a picture of white tulips in Olivia's book, is able to find her nearby. After they introduce themselves, Olivia admits to being scared of going home to her stepfather. Peter tells her to trust Walter and face her fear, and then returns her to the child care center to everyone's relief. As Olivia waits for her stepfather, she draws her and Peter into her book. As he is about to arrive, Olivia decides she must tell Walter about him, and rushes to his office. Olivia, in tears, hands Walter the sketchbook, explaining about her stepfather's abuse and that she knew she had crossed over to the parallel universe. She is interrupted by a sound from behind her: it is Walter. Olivia had temporarily entered the parallel universe and spoken to Walternate. Walter takes Olivia to her stepfather, but warns the man that he will be reported to social services if Olivia is harmed again.

Elizabeth and Peter return to Reiden Lake, and Peter eventually comes to call Elizabeth his mom, but Elizabeth becomes forlorn after she realizes the lie she has been maintaining for the last few months. The episode ends in the parallel universe, where Walternate has reviewed Olivia's sketchbook, including her latest picture of her and Peter; now aware of the parallel universe, Walternate gains new resolve to get his Peter back.

I missed that somehow. Thanks.

[Smoove_B]

I missed that somehow. Thanks.

I also think we saw this same phenomenon this past Friday when she was having confusion over the blue folder; I think she briefly slipped into the alternate universe.

[hepcat]

...and John Noble continues to put to shame every actor who isn't on an AMC show once again.

I can't disagree with this. Why hasn't he won every dramatic TV actor award there is?

His heartbreaking confession to Nina that started off as an angry accusation was just fantastic. He really does deserve some accolades for his work.

[JonathanStrange]

There are definitely dramatic moments in Fringe; scenes very well played by the actors. Yet the leisurely pace of the episodes towards advancing the storyline - in a show that's average something in the low three millions of viewers and being air on Friday (where shows go to die) - makes me wonder if Fringe will get the series conclusion I think it deserves.

[rshetts2]

...and John Noble continues to put to shame every actor who isn't on an AMC show once again.

I can't disagree with this. Why hasn't he won every dramatic TV actor award there is?

His heartbreaking confession to Nina that started off as an angry accusation was just fantastic. He really does deserve some accolades for his work.

Its amazing how many different roles Noble has had to adapt to while simply playing Walter. He does such an incredible job with the small nuances of each portrayal, that you can totally buy into the story he tells with no reservations. His latest Walter, whos past doesnt include Peters positive influence, has been great. You can see the lingering effects of his years in the asylum still grip him and debilitate him much more than last seasons Walter.


If they decide to cancel this series down the road, I hope the give us fans a final season like they did with Lost and allow the writers to give us some kind of closure, instead a sloppy slapped on goodby episode.

[Vorret]

What's a "good" rating number if 3m isin't much?

[hepcat]

I hope the give us fans a final season like they did with Lost and allow the writers to give us some kind of closure, instead a sloppy slapped on goodby episode.

I thought you said you DIDN'T want a sloppy, slapped on goodbye episode?

[Fellstrike]

My life needs more Fringe
*waits impatiently*

[ChaoZ]

Apparently there's only a couple more episodes for 2011. Two more weeks, then no Fringe until mid January

[tgb]

Apparently there's only a couple more episodes for 2011. Two more weeks, then no Fringe until mid January

That's not good. It's been doing worse and worse in the ratings, and a break like this could be fatal. Although I understand the series finale has already been laid out.

Spoiler:

Walter wakes up, still in the asylum. It was all just a crazy dream.

[Smoove_B]

With this last episode, I'm beginning to think Peter is in another new universe - not the one he left when he activated the machine. Part of my theory is hinged on how many buttons Olivia leaves undone on her blouses, but as you can imagine searching for that information sends me off on various tangents.

Anyway, I seem to remember Fauxlivia leaving a two of them unbuttoned and someone commented to her that she needed to button more in order to look like Olivia (so only the top was undone). However, this new Alt-livia seems to keep her blouse unbuttoned in a similar manner to Fauxlivia, leading me to believe it's a subtle clue as to the nature of this new alternate universe.

Or I'm just OCDing over blouse buttons.

[theohall]

With this last episode, I'm beginning to think Peter is in another new universe - not the one he left when he activated the machine. Part of my theory is hinged on how many buttons Olivia leaves undone on her blouses, but as you can imagine searching for that information sends me off on various tangents.

Anyway, I seem to remember Fauxlivia leaving a two of them unbuttoned and someone commented to her that she needed to button more in order to look like Olivia (so only the top was undone). However, this new Alt-livia seems to keep her blouse unbuttoned in a similar manner to Fauxlivia, leading me to believe it's a subtle clue as to the nature of this new alternate universe.

Or I'm just OCDing over blouse buttons.

Yes, it seems like something else is going on besides the two "known" worlds. Especially with the way strange things keep happening to Olivia - like getting something from someone, talking to someone else, then getting that exact same thing from that exact same person as if it hadn't happened before.

[hepcat]

Apparently there's only a couple more episodes for 2011. Two more weeks, then no Fringe until mid January

That's not good. It's been doing worse and worse in the ratings, and a break like this could be fatal. Although I understand the series finale has already been laid out.

Spoiler:

Walter wakes up, still in the asylum. It was all just a crazy dream.

Spoiler:

I had read that Walter wakes up next to a suzanne pleshette lookalike and he realizes he's actually a psychiatrist in Chicago.

[$iljanus]

With this last episode, I'm beginning to think Peter is in another new universe - not the one he left when he activated the machine. Part of my theory is hinged on how many buttons Olivia leaves undone on her blouses, but as you can imagine searching for that information sends me off on various tangents.

Anyway, I seem to remember Fauxlivia leaving a two of them unbuttoned and someone commented to her that she needed to button more in order to look like Olivia (so only the top was undone). However, this new Alt-livia seems to keep her blouse unbuttoned in a similar manner to Fauxlivia, leading me to believe it's a subtle clue as to the nature of this new alternate universe.

Or I'm just OCDing over blouse buttons.

Yes, it seems like something else is going on besides the two "known" worlds. Especially with the way strange things keep happening to Olivia - like getting something from someone, talking to someone else, then getting that exact same thing from that exact same person as if it hadn't happened before.

Also the opening credits are not the blue or red universe color but a orangeish color with a whole bunch of technologies floating on the screen that are either new or a mix of the two universes that we're familiar with. At first I thought the orange color was a blend of the two universes but . Pretty tricky, writers!

[Smoove_B]

As someone with TiVo that fast-forwards through the opening credits, I'm feeling pretty silly right now, but damn that's slick. I picked up on the change when they did it for the "Red" universe, but apparently the Orange (Amber?) opening credits were way more subtle.

[Vorret]

Wow... that's very interesting.
We need to go deeper!

[Smoove_B]

Fox on Fringe renewal -- 'We're not in the business of losing money':

“The hesitation in my voice is that it’s an expensive show. We lose a lot of money on the show. But with that rating on that night it’s almost impossible for us to make money on it. We’re not in the business of losing money. We need to figure out if there’s a [deal with studio Warner Bros. that] will make sense or will this be it.

Also Fringe returns from a nearly two-month hiatus starting on 1/13.

[Remus West]

Fox on Fringe renewal -- 'We're not in the business of losing money':

“The hesitation in my voice is that it’s an expensive show. We lose a lot of money on the show. But with that rating on that night it’s almost impossible for us to make money on it. We’re not in the business of losing money. We need to figure out if there’s a [deal with studio Warner Bros. that] will make sense or will this be it.

Also Fringe returns from a nearly two-month hiatus starting on 1/13.

If it needs to be said, I hate FOX.

[theohall]

Fox on Fringe renewal -- 'We're not in the business of losing money':

“The hesitation in my voice is that it’s an expensive show. We lose a lot of money on the show. But with that rating on that night it’s almost impossible for us to make money on it. We’re not in the business of losing money. We need to figure out if there’s a [deal with studio Warner Bros. that] will make sense or will this be it.

I hate it when ass-hats say things like "that night" when they are the ass-hats that moved it to "that night." It really helps our Friday night lineup, but is too expensive. So what are you going to put in it's place, numbnuts??

[Remus West]

Fox on Fringe renewal -- 'We're not in the business of losing money':

“The hesitation in my voice is that it’s an expensive show. We lose a lot of money on the show. But with that rating on that night it’s almost impossible for us to make money on it. We’re not in the business of losing money. We need to figure out if there’s a [deal with studio Warner Bros. that] will make sense or will this be it.

I hate it when ass-hats say things like "that night" when they are the ass-hats that moved it to "that night." It really helps our Friday night lineup, but is too expensive. So what are you going to put in it's place, numbnuts??

CSI Fargo.

[tgb]

Fuck you, Fox.

[Doomboy]

Hey, they kept it on the air for three seasons. That is progress with Fox. The old Fox would have cancelled it midway through the first season, and not aired the last episodes.

If a show fails to build a big audience in three years, it isn't entirely Fox's fault. Mostly, I think the show asks too much from the average moron who watches tv these days. You have to tune in each week to keep up, and you have to be able to understand the concept of alternate universes.

[hepcat]

I know there's a lot of hate for Fox but to be honest, they've kept more than one show that was amazingly good yet drew small audiences on the air longer than I expected. Arrested Development got three full seasons and Dollhouse about 2 if I remember correctly. Firefly is the only one I thought they took down too quickly.

Blame the right people: American audiences. They're generally not interested in complex, fascinating stories. We're mostly idiots who want to watch reality tv stars doing dumb things or 19 talent shows that are almost identical to each other.

[tgb]

It is Fox's fault for moving it to Fridays, traditionally the place television shows go to die (that was the death knell for TOS, too). I know, TIVO, DVR's, yada yada yada.........

.......but the real killer was the two month hiatus. People who are marginal viewers probably don't know that it's coming back this week, or care enough to check into it.

[hepcat]

Doesn't change the fact that if the show featured a kardashian it would probably see a spike in viewership. Yeah, fox isn't helping with the hiatus, but the viewership was down even before that move. It's been sliding since season 1 with an almost 50 percent drop in viewership from season 1 to season 2...and the slide continued for season 3 (although not nearly as much).

Like I said, I blame American audiences more than anything. They watch in a large enough number, the show makes money off advertisers. The show makes money, it stays on the air.

[Remus West]

Do the ratings account for the DVRing public? I swear that fringe type shows tend to be more towards the DVR and watch later type audience. I think that I may have actually watch a show in it's time slot this fall (any show, not just Fringe) but I wouldn't bet on it. I can't be the only one.

[Isgrimnur]

I believe that DVR counts if it's viewed within a week of airtime. People leaving shows to languish on their DVRs do the show no favors.

[tgb]

No wonder it's on it's deathbed when no one on a nerdy gaming site talks about the first episode after a two month hiatus.

Anyway, I thought it was OK. They telegraphed a big twist as to the season's villain, so I wasn't surprised that

Spoiler:

it wasn't Walternate, or that in this timeline David Robert Jones is still alive.

However, I did think

Spoiler:

Nina Sharp would be the one involved, not Broyles

As to the other twist that

Spoiler:

Olivia has to die - I'm guessing so Peter can get back to the other timeline in the season/series finale - since it's not the same "Olivia(s)" as the previous three seasons, it won't carry a whole lot of weight.

We will, of course, keep watching.

[Fellstrike]

The latest episode didn't quite do it for me. All the episodes up to this point IIRC had some sort of feeling of conclusion or change to it except this one. Hopefully the next episode will pull it together. I still like the series and plan on watching it but all I gotta say is Fringe is lucky Sherlock only has 3 episodes in a season

[TiLT]

I thought it was an awesome episode with a lot going on in it. The plot definitely moved forward by quite a few steps, and the theme of the season comes more to light.

[hepcat]

That they have continued to have interesting stories with decent twists long after they revealed the main mystery behind what's going on (alternate earths) is a testimony to the strength of the writers on this show. I really hope it can stay on the air.

edit: need it be written that John Noble is still one of the best damn dramatic and comedic actors working on television right now?

[Vorret]

Me and my GF were wondering a couple things

Spoiler:

Fauxlivia #2 mentionned she had a bad breakup, did we ever see who it was? We can't remember

What happended to William Bell in this universe?

[$iljanus]

So to answer your questions Vorret

Spoiler:

So based on last season, fauxlivia had a happy relationship with a doctor named Frank but after she came back pregnant from our universe with Peter's baby they broke up. Keep in mind though that we are now in completely new universes so all bets are off. But probably Frank still existed in this season's universe and there was just a breakup over something different. Now I have a headache.

As for William Bell We don't know how he died this season. Last season it was a car accident I believe in the alt universe. Nemoy is officially retired but you never know...

[Smoove_B]

I'm still really into this show but that 2 month hiatus really killed the momentum for me. If that was Fox's plan, it worked. I almost feel like I need to go back and watch the first half of this season again and then jump right into these last two weeks.

Bastards.

[TiLT]

Hasn't Fringe taken a long mid-season break every season so far?

[Smoove_B]

Yeah, most shows do. But I think this one was a 2+ weeks longer than what had been historically done and it felt like...forever.

[rshetts2]

From what I read of SyFy, there is still hope for a season 5 for Fringe. Fox doesnt make this show, they license it from Warner. The words is that they are negotiating a reduced licensing fee, so they can keeps it on the air and gives it one final season. The 5th season would also set Fringe up for syndication, making it more lucrative on the back end. Also JJ Abrams has offered to come back and work on Fringe if they got for the final season. He wont be a full time show runner but would help on the wrap up plots and directly a few episodes.
I hope they work this out because Fringe is probably my favorite show right now. Id love to see it get a wrap up season.
Oh and its been said before, but give John Noble a frikken emmy all ready!

[Chesspieceface]

This season is giving me anxiety... I don't like the feeling that half of what we've seen never happened... I mean it did, but no one knows about it but Peter.

I'd actually not watched this show, got pretty sick this week and watched every episode up to present in like 8-9 hour blocks. What a treat.

[Vorret]

This season is giving me anxiety... I don't like the feeling that half of what we've seen never happened... I mean it did, but no one knows about it but Peter.

I'd actually not watched this show, got pretty sick this week and watched every episode up to present in like 8-9 hour blocks. What a treat.

Fringe is very addictive, it's best used in small dosage

[Chesspieceface]

Sweet episode... kinda hoped the girl would draw Dunham's death before she bit it. I like the way the show's mythology make the ending a much tighter cliffhanger than usual.

Next week... trouble. >:)