OOWW: JLA ... GAME OVER!

[Grundbegriff]

The badguy votes however? Those are "pure". The motive there is simple: "Let's get us one less goodguy." Newc making it seem as if he's just a non-powered and disengaged player makes it easy for badguys to hop on the train, too. Built-in excuse when he would have come back as a Team Hero corpse: he wasn't being helpful enough.

That seems to imply one of the following:
Either
(A) Isgrimnur is evil
Or
(B) A bunch of badguys are on the Isgrimnur train

After all, he was easy pickins-- as easy as it ever gets, given his utter disengagement for a while.

[triggercut]

The badguy votes however? Those are "pure". The motive there is simple: "Let's get us one less goodguy." Newc making it seem as if he's just a non-powered and disengaged player makes it easy for badguys to hop on the train, too. Built-in excuse when he would have come back as a Team Hero corpse: he wasn't being helpful enough.

That seems to imply one of the following:
Either
(A) Isgrimnur is evil
Or
(B) A bunch of badguys are on the Isgrimnur train

After all, he was easy pickins-- as easy as it ever gets, given his utter disengagement for a while.

Yep. Which is why--and I miscounted earlier--I have four primo suspects:

1. Mr Bubbles
2. Unagi
3. Lassr
4. RMC

[Mr Bubbles]

You hurt my feelings Triggercut. I considered you a friend and you stab me in the back. I'd to hear your justification, other than trying to misdirect the masses.

[triggercut]

You hurt my feelings Triggercut. I considered you a friend and you stab me in the back. I'd to hear your justification, other than trying to misdirect the masses.

If only I'd given some reasons for my vote.

[purge]

What binge, Isgrimnur? Was I mistaken in staying my hand while you were at N-1? Were you and the other ne'er-do-wells all hanging out at La Maison de Qantaga, with full access to our dead friends' eats?

Sorry to mess up your color charts, Grund.

 Isgrimnur 
 


For nothing other than Triggercuts' Principle - and perhaps for the more plausible idea that Grim is playing the silent wolf, waiting while the others bark us up.

[Isgrimnur]

Last night's drinking. I dunno, I just went through a lot of pages of stuff to try and find something, and other than a vague unease about you, I didn't really come up with anything else.

[purge]

 Withdraw Isgrimnur 
 


Grund asked why not Remus West, and I can't come up with anything other than his almost-zerker-like threat of it would not be good for us.

Thoughts?

[Grundbegriff]

Why are you bouncing around like a ping-pong ball?

[triggercut]

 Withdraw Isgrimnur 
 


Grund asked why not Remus West, and I can't come up with anything other than his almost-zerker-like threat of it would not be good for us.

Thoughts?

Remus was kidding, spoofing Grund's "We don't want to do that" line.

[Lassr]

When I'm evil I know I like to have a vote cast somewhere

Noted!

and now your noted is noted

[Lassr]

Lassr's work showing the votes of folks not on certain vote trains is suspect.

Chaos (or whomever) isn't re-setting the vote counts with the change of day.

So, in Lagom's case, he voted for bb2112 exactly once. He never withdrew the vote. He placed that vote back on March 13.

What looks like Lagom Lite hounding bb2112 with votes is not that at all.

are you saying that Lagom's vote was not reset for the new day? What kind of vote count is that if true! I didn't notice that.

[Grundbegriff]

Chaos (or whomever) isn't re-setting the vote counts with the change of day.
So, in Lagom's case, he voted for bb2112 exactly once. He never withdrew the vote. He placed that vote back on March 13.
What looks like Lagom Lite hounding bb2112 with votes is not that at all.

are you saying that Lagom's vote was not reset for the new day? What kind of vote count is that if true! I didn't notice that.

I'm not sure what trig's saying that Chaosraven is failing to do, but I provided a total accounting of today's vote. AFAIK, it includes everything up to the time I posted/fixed it.

This is the only vote update that Chaosraven has given since Qantaga's death.

[purge]

Bored, mostly. There is little contribution with this many players. Grim Accused me- I TP'd. CR hasn't put up an official count, so I'm not prepared to leave it on someone who seems to have been capitulated and has a high vote count. Sofar we've hunted ghosts and the one proven we have has been lined up by the firing squad. You dump a good amount of time into this game on the weekend, but honestly it feels hollow in effort. Besides, references to games I haven't played (in some cases almost pages at a time) put me at a disadvantage, so all I can go on is gut. I have three people in mind, but at this point I'm not sure, and so I'm willing to get this moved forward under another players test. That plan has 5/16 chance of sucking big time, but remember their are communicators out there on our side. So Grim accused me- and has yet to withdraw. Were he less at jeopardy I'd leave my vote there. What would you suggest we should do... sit around, polishing the kings pawn? Do we instead let someone select a person, and summarily execute them?
Sent from my SGH-i917R using Board Express

[Lassr]

I have four primo suspects:

1. Mr Bubbles
2. Unagi
3. Lassr
4. RMC

don't think all 4 would be on the vote.

El Guapo, and Lagom Lite may be worth considering. The only one so far in this game that I had that feeling about was BB2112 early in the game. I've backed off a little but it always seems to be a mistake when I ignore my gut feeling.

[triggercut]

I missed a Lagom Lite vote on March 22. Mea culpa!

[Chaosraven]

The Bird is working 36 hr this weekend (including right now). Will be on in the am.

[Chaosraven]

VOTE
4 Isgrimnur - RMC, bb2112, El Guapo, Unagi
1 purge - Isgrimnur
1 bb2112 - Lagom Lite
1 Lagom Lite - Austin
1 Unagi - tru1cy
1 Mr Bubbles - triggercut
No Vote: coopasonic, Remus West, theohall, purge, Grundbegriff, Lassr, Mr Bubbles

16 Players remain, Majority is 9

[bb2112]

The most telling train is NC's, because of all four trains, his is the only one we got results from. Who was on that train yet avoided the others?

NC Train

9 Newcastle - Qantaga, theohall, bb2112, Grundbegriff, Unagi, RMC, Mr Bubbles, Lassr, tru1cy

Skipped

8 skipped Lagom Lite: coopasonic, El Guapo, Grundbegriff, Isgrimnur, Lagom Lite, triggercut, theohall, tru1cy

9 skipped Grundbegriff: Grundbegriff, Isgrimnur, Lagom Lite, Lassr, Mr Bubbles, triggercut, RMC, theohall, Unagi

9 skipped Isgrimnur : Austin, coopasonic, Grundbegriff, Isgrimnur, Lagom Lite, Lassr, purge, Remus West, theohall, tru1cy

Grund and Theo

Discuss

Am I the only one that sees something here worth at least discussing a little? There is a small subset of people who voted for an innocent (NC), who also shied away from every other vote. Why?

[Remus West]

and I'd take it a step further and look at the players that were not on a train but had a vote cast elsewhere. When I'm evil I know I like to have a vote cast somewhere and I've seen it often where that vote is cast on a partner early in the game.

Such as Lagom on bb2112?

now did you bring that one up because it looks the most suspicious or because of your lover's quarrel with bb?

I brought it up because it seemed to fit your outlined idea and I did not see another blatant example in this game of someone voting off on a tangent for a single other player. That made me think you were referring to that vote and I wanted to check. Lagom voted early for another player that garner little to no other attention. Was that not what you were implying was your plan as a villain? I'm not saying either/both of them are evil. I'm asking if it fits your suggestion.

[Lassr]

I brought it up because it seemed to fit your outlined idea and I did not see another blatant example in this game of someone voting off on a tangent for a single other player. That made me think you were referring to that vote and I wanted to check. Lagom voted early for another player that garner little to no other attention. Was that not what you were implying was your plan as a villain? I'm not saying either/both of them are evil. I'm asking if it fits your suggestion.

it does fit but I had not checked to see who had voted for whom at that time so I had no idea if that was the only vote that fit. Just thought you might be trying to get BB killed by tying them together.

[Lassr]

 El Guapo 
 

[Grundbegriff]

My head hurts.

[triggercut]

The most telling train is NC's, because of all four trains, his is the only one we got results from. Who was on that train yet avoided the others?

NC Train

9 Newcastle - Qantaga, theohall, bb2112, Grundbegriff, Unagi, RMC, Mr Bubbles, Lassr, tru1cy

Skipped

8 skipped Lagom Lite: coopasonic, El Guapo, Grundbegriff, Isgrimnur, Lagom Lite, triggercut, theohall, tru1cy

9 skipped Grundbegriff: Grundbegriff, Isgrimnur, Lagom Lite, Lassr, Mr Bubbles, triggercut, RMC, theohall, Unagi

9 skipped Isgrimnur : Austin, coopasonic, Grundbegriff, Isgrimnur, Lagom Lite, Lassr, purge, Remus West, theohall, tru1cy

Grund and Theo

Discuss

Am I the only one that sees something here worth at least discussing a little? There is a small subset of people who voted for an innocent (NC), who also shied away from every other vote. Why?

I'm going to guess that Grundbegriff decided not to vote for himself, so there's that.

theohall? Interesting.

[Grundbegriff]

 El Guapo 
 

The weirdest thing El Guapo has done, as far as I can tell, is offer possibly contrary explanations for his language in describing the teams. Not exactly poking the innocents, and indeed fairly small beer, but weird.

Of course, a Wolf (or supervillain) needn't do weird things.

[Lassr]

 El Guapo 
 

The weirdest thing El Guapo has done, as far as I can tell, is offer possibly contrary explanations for his language in describing the teams. Not exactly poking the innocents, and indeed fairly small beer, but weird.

Of course, a Wolf (or supervillain) needn't do weird things.

that is my point; he hasn't drawn much attention to himself.

[El Guapo]

 El Guapo 
 

The weirdest thing El Guapo has done, as far as I can tell, is offer possibly contrary explanations for his language in describing the teams. Not exactly poking the innocents, and indeed fairly small beer, but weird.

Of course, a Wolf (or supervillain) needn't do weird things.

that is my point; he hasn't drawn much attention to himself.

Booga booga booga!

There - does that help?

[purge]

He also hopped on behind my vote pretty damn quick on day one.

Is there a smiley for "eyebrow raised"?

[purge]

Google images sure has one.

[Remus West]

I brought it up because it seemed to fit your outlined idea and I did not see another blatant example in this game of someone voting off on a tangent for a single other player. That made me think you were referring to that vote and I wanted to check. Lagom voted early for another player that garner little to no other attention. Was that not what you were implying was your plan as a villain? I'm not saying either/both of them are evil. I'm asking if it fits your suggestion.

it does fit but I had not checked to see who had voted for whom at that time so I had no idea if that was the only vote that fit. Just thought you might be trying to get BB killed by tying them together.

Even if we followed your idea we would target Lagom first as the more likely of the duo to be Evil, IMO. That is, based off your idea not any other game posts/events.

[Unagi]

Theohall seems wolfishly in control of himself.
Coop is certainly one that I spaced was playing.

I certainly can still see Isgimnur being villain, not much else to gather.

Frankly... sadly... the tru1cy move on Newcastle at N-1, with his 'so lynch me' comment still seems off. But that may just be tru1cy...

I mean, if tru1cy is indeed good but say Newcastle just wasn't Superman, specifically, we'd have Newcastle dead and tru1cy very likely killed off today.

I could see Lassr as a villain, he's been good and middle of the road on things.

Mr B, I'll not take the reigns on this, but meh - seems evil enough.

Grund started off like the zerker-type Grund (zerker or not, I suppose... the taunting-type Grund, perhaps is better) that wants to get lynched eventually, but not on day 1... since then he's come across more normal (his favorite role ) - but I really can't pretend to be able to read him entirely. On the fense.

Remus has been looking off a bit this game, IMO. His arguments seem below him, and it just seems like a self emulating Remus, if that makes sense. Seems a little opertunistic.

Now.... who's that leave that I don't list.

Lagom? oh hell no... Yeah, he certail isn't in the clear from his half-claim, and then pending nightly survival. I think he's evil, and if he's not - it's best to at least pretend we are going to lynch him eventually so that he may 'stop an attack' and make himself useful.

El Guapo, ... not really seeing his 'use of words' issue as others, which is rare for me, and the event actually made me feel like Remus was trying to toss chum in the water or something with another 'is' / 'was' type argument. Frankly, I probably need to reconsider him, without regard to that post, as I don't want to blindly defend him just cause I think Remus was being weird to attack that.

bb2112 - is a bit like El Guapo to me, in that I also don't really see what some others are seeing - and I tend to then think he's the good guy and the others are bad guys. His active play seems in line with his play the last game (where I think I said he was sorta 'hosting' it). Not sure how he would play evil, but so far I'm fairly fooled by him if he is. I don't dismiss the idea. El G and bb both seem like they normally seem, to me. But that actually means: I feel like I'm being tricked - while I think they are both good.

RMC, also - I think he seems good, but I've been wrong about him so many times, I feel like I'm the wrong filter to pass him through, he just never passes. (Mr B is like that for me as well, to some regard... but currently I see him currently as more evil than RMC) (that's the kind of thing I will declare, and then RMC will be evil and Mr B will be good)

triggercut, seems (been a while, hard to gage) good, I believe. ... Unless he's all evil superman... sorta felt like it for a little bit at the start of his big reveal (IMO), but since then I feel a bit lees concerned. kinda.
tru1cy; if trig is good, then tru1cy is good. Which works out well for tru1cy.

purge... hmm. not sure, seems kinda normal purge for the most part, but other than the last game, it's been a while.

[Unagi]

The badguy votes however? Those are "pure". The motive there is simple: "Let's get us one less goodguy." Newc making it seem as if he's just a non-powered and disengaged player makes it easy for badguys to hop on the train, too. Built-in excuse when he would have come back as a Team Hero corpse: he wasn't being helpful enough.

That seems to imply one of the following:
Either
(A) Isgrimnur is evil
Or
(B) A bunch of badguys are on the Isgrimnur train

After all, he was easy pickins-- as easy as it ever gets, given his utter disengagement for a while.

That's an odd choice to present.

I mean, couldn't it be:
Both
(A)Isgrimnur is good
And
(B) A bunch of bad guys were not on the Isgrimnur train.

After all, he was easy pickis-- as easy as letting good guys devour the utterly disengaged.

I'm not saying that's what happened either - but your Or didn't seem normal to me.

[Grundbegriff]

That's an odd choice to present.

I mean, couldn't it be:
Both
(A)Isgrimnur is good
And
(B) A bunch of bad guys were not on the Isgrimnur train.

After all, he was easy pickis-- as easy as letting good guys devour the utterly disengaged.

I'm not saying that's what happened either - but your Or didn't seem normal to me.

If Isgrimnur were good and Isgrimnur were at N-2 and "A bunch of bad guys were not on the Isgrimnur train", then why is Isgrimnur alive?

[tru1cy]

I haven't read this thread in two days and I see that nothing really has changed since Friday. I'll leave my vote where it is

[Chaosraven]

VOTE


4 Isgrimnur - RMC, bb2112, El Guapo, Unagi


1 bb2112 - Lagom Lite
1 Lagom Lite - Austin
1 Unagi - tru1cy
1 Mr Bubbles - triggercut
1 purge - Isgrimnur
1 El Guapo - Lassr

No Vote: coopasonic, Remus West, theohall, purge, Grundbegriff, Mr Bubbles

16 Players remain, Majority is 9

[Lassr]

I brought it up because it seemed to fit your outlined idea and I did not see another blatant example in this game of someone voting off on a tangent for a single other player. That made me think you were referring to that vote and I wanted to check. Lagom voted early for another player that garner little to no other attention. Was that not what you were implying was your plan as a villain? I'm not saying either/both of them are evil. I'm asking if it fits your suggestion.

it does fit but I had not checked to see who had voted for whom at that time so I had no idea if that was the only vote that fit. Just thought you might be trying to get BB killed by tying them together.

Even if we followed your idea we would target Lagom first as the more likely of the duo to be Evil, IMO. That is, based off your idea not any other game posts/events.

Yes, I understand. I do agree that using my idea it points the finger at Lagom.
I find it odd that you are really emphasizing this when I was joking with you about how you always want to kill BB.

[bb2112]

Thanks, Unagi, for your rundown post. I always look forward to when Q does it, so it was nice to see someone stepping up since Q is sleeping with the fishes. And Remus, get your head out of the gutter, he is not sleeping with them in a sexual way like Aquaman. Anyway. Couple of things to note that I completely agree with.

I certainly can still see Isgimnur being villain, not much else to gather.

And per Isgrimnur's quotes, we will never gather anything more. He is disinterested. It reminds me of Grund's quote on Newcastle.

I'm think bb and RMC are perhaps right about Newcastle in this sense: if he's evil, then huzzah! And if he's good but determined to play uselessly, then... huzzah!

Switch Newcastle with Isgrimnur and I really don't see a difference.

And don't get me started on Tru1cy. I agree. If Superman hadn't proved him, he would be hanging already. Now we are either going have to carry his dead weight with us into the end game and hope he decides to read the posts at some point, or the villians will do us a favor and take him out. I'm not sure which I'm hoping for.

Now for Theo:

Theohall seems wolfishly in control of himself.

It made me think of this quote, also by Grund.

Ok, that was pretty interesting. Reading straight through makes discrepancies stand out in higher relief than they seem to do when experienced in realtime.
The Ugly
Lagom Lite perturbs me in the same measure and for the same reason that he bothers everyone else who was bothered by him: apparent crude opportunism. theohall bothers me because when he's good he's usually a lot more engaged and obnoxious.

Unagi made an impassioned William Wallace like speech in the last BSG game saying he wanted to go down swinging at evils. Although Isgrimnur's lack of engagement deserves some attention, we can always come back to him later. Or finish dealing with him today. I'm ok with it either way.

But if we do decide to go in another direction and start swinging at evils, I would like to hear a little more from Theo before I change my vote off Issy.

[Lassr]

 El Guapo 
 

The weirdest thing El Guapo has done, as far as I can tell, is offer possibly contrary explanations for his language in describing the teams. Not exactly poking the innocents, and indeed fairly small beer, but weird.

Of course, a Wolf (or supervillain) needn't do weird things.

that is my point; he hasn't drawn much attention to himself.

Booga booga booga!

There - does that help?

for now:
 withdraw El Guapo 
 

[Mr Bubbles]

I can go with  Unagi 
 

[coopasonic]

Without resorting to a post count, this is my rank ordering of level of engagement. Looking at the list, this looks like it could be the list for any OOWW game with a couple minor exceptions. The same folks are generally active each game. theo and El G are the two that stand out to me as less engaged than usual. Nobody is striking me as more engaged than usual.

1) bb2112
4) triggercut
6) Remus West
17) Unagi
12) Lassr
14) Grundbegriff
5) El Guapo
10) purge
11) Lagom Lite
13) Mr Bubbles
9) theohall
3) coopasonic
16) RMC
15) Austin
8) tru1cy
2) Isgrimnur

Now that I am thinking about it, I was excusing bb's rabid behavior as trying to get the game moving and get some votes. In a game with no deadlines is that helpful or harmful? I can see it both ways, but I think the net effect is harmful. I'm just not sure it's evil.

Now I see Mr B, following tru1cy against Unagi. On the plus, we are pretty sure tru1cy is good, on the minus, do we really want to follow tru1cy?

[triggercut]

Without resorting to a post count, this is my rank ordering of level of engagement. Looking at the list, this looks like it could be the list for any OOWW game with a couple minor exceptions. The same folks are generally active each game. theo and El G are the two that stand out to me as less engaged than usual. Nobody is striking me as more engaged than usual.

1) bb2112
4) triggercut
6) Remus West
17) Unagi
12) Lassr
14) Grundbegriff
5) El Guapo
10) purge
11) Lagom Lite
13) Mr Bubbles
9) theohall
3) coopasonic
16) RMC
15) Austin
8) tru1cy
2) Isgrimnur

Now that I am thinking about it, I was excusing bb's rabid behavior as trying to get the game moving and get some votes. In a game with no deadlines is that helpful or harmful? I can see it both ways, but I think the net effect is harmful. I'm just not sure it's evil.

Now I see Mr B, following tru1cy against Unagi. On the plus, we are pretty sure tru1cy is good, on the minus, do we really want to follow tru1cy?

Mr B following tru1cy smacks of badguy opportunism.