OOWW: JLA ... GAME OVER!

[triggercut]

theohall is a very good vote, I think.

I firmly believe in the eviltude of Mr Bubbles, but failing that I can get behind theohall.

[Chaosraven]

GET IT STRAIGHT!

VOTE

3 theohall - bb2112, Unagi, Austin

2 Isgrimnur - RMC, El Guapo
2 Mr Bubbles - triggercut, Grundbegriff
2 bb2112 - Lagom Lite, theohall
2 Unagi - tru1cy, Mr Bubbles

1 Lagom Lite - Remus West
1 purge - Isgrimnur
1 Remus West - Lassr


No Vote: coopasonic, purge



16 Players remain, Majority is 9

((fixed))

[Mr Bubbles]

Really? One word response from Austin flies around here?

Who do you think you are, CR?

The more Remus talks, the more I think he should be tested - there's something about him... I can't quite put my finger on it.

Austin isn't the only one who doesn't feel the need to explain themselves.

Has someone else placed a vote without explaining the reason?

Do tell.

Funny that you of all people respond to this.

[Lassr]

 theohall 
 


he was #2 on my list so no big jump for me.

[Unagi]

Not that I saw but the comment was so bizarre I figured it had to be a hint of some form or another.

It was a statement of men's general health. The premise being that if we could all relax with the thought that tru1cy was totally unpowered, perhaps that would bring, as a result - peace of mind, lower blood pressure, an increase in sperm count.... pick your indicator.

It was a joke (a silly, and pretty lame one, clearly).

[bb2112]

If you are color blind, just vote for Theohall, Isgrimnur or Mr Bubbles and make yourself useful.

So glad I was not drinking milk when I read this.

[bb2112]

No Vote: coopasonic, purge

Coop and Purge, please pick your favorite candidate for all around evilness. Kthx.

[Grundbegriff]

If Batman was out there he would have been given Two-Faces identity (assuming it was one of the previously scanned targets). If that happened and he did not shout it from the roofs right away he truly has bats in his belfry.

Why are you trying to dictate Batman's behavior? If he exists and faces that circumstance, he could have valid reasons to stay quiet for a while.

[Grundbegriff]

theohall is a very good vote, I think.

I firmly believe in the eviltude of Mr Bubbles, but failing that I can get behind theohall.

This attitude bothers me. We shouldn't settle for the "Oh, I guess I could do X" approach, just as we shouldn't settle for rolling dice. Instead, we should identify the person we consider most likely to be Evil and then make the case, sway the crowd, and optimize our chance of actually making progress.

[Grundbegriff]

No Vote: coopasonic, purge

Coop and Purge, please pick your favorite candidate for all around evilness. Kthx.

Again with the bull in china shop approach!

[triggercut]

Here is a question I think I already know the answer to...because I know what I know about two other players in the game via the failed Newcastle lynch.

Can Team Villain scan, get the result of that scan, and then target a member of Team Hero after receiving that knowledge for any of their night kill/convert activity?

I say that "I think I know the answer" based upon the target choice for the Monday Night kill of Qantaga. Had they scanned Qantaga prior to submitting a kill order, I do not think he would have been their choice, which assumes that they also hold a scan and that knowledge from Sunday night.

[Grundbegriff]

Interesting point. Given your info, it would be prudent to assume (unless Chaosraven corrects) that if they have a scanner, they've scanned someone who's still alive.

If they receive the scan first, they might
(a) retain that info and
(b) take a shot at someone else to perhaps score a(nother?) special

If they don't receive the scan first, they might nevertheless take a shot at someone else to perhaps score a(nother?) special.

So I'm not sure the timing of the scan is the key factor. The key factor is that even if they had a scan, and found someone interesting with it, that's not necessarily the person they'd try to kill.

[triggercut]

Interesting point. Given your info, it would be prudent to assume (unless Chaosraven corrects) that if they have a scanner, they've scanned someone who's still alive.

With the question then being: did their night one scan give them information they were able to action upon on night one?

Followup question: is it possible, even perhaps likely, that perhaps Team Evil is working without a scanner in this game?

[Unagi]

No Vote: coopasonic, purge

Coop and Purge, please pick your favorite candidate for all around evilness. Kthx.

Again with the bull in china shop approach!

Do you have some rule against bulls purchasing china.

In all seriousness, I'm in line with bb2112's desire to see some people participate more. (or at all)
Perhaps some of us just have different pacing that feels fun to us.


Theohall will be by shortly to point the finger at bb2112 for trying to lead us all to our doom or something.
Or me, for defending those without saintly patience.

[Grundbegriff]

No Vote: coopasonic, purge

Coop and Purge, please pick your favorite candidate for all around evilness. Kthx.

Again with the bull in china shop approach!

Do you have some rule against bulls purchasing china.

I'm all for making progress. Progress implies participation and change.

I just want to see us optimize our chance of actually making progress in the right direction. We have not much to work with, but something. So I'd like to see participation that consists of more than "Yeah, ok, anything to make the sun set."

[El Guapo]

If Batman was out there he would have been given Two-Faces identity (assuming it was one of the previously scanned targets). If that happened and he did not shout it from the roofs right away he truly has bats in his belfry.

I agree. But we don't know if Batman is out there.

And as Grund says it's possible that Batman is choosing to stay quiet, but that seems exceeding unlikely (as the other good players would then beat him about the head after the game).

[Grundbegriff]

Followup question: is it possible, even perhaps likely, that perhaps Team Evil is working without a scanner in this game?

It appears that Lex Luthor and Riddler are the to natively Evil scanners. Riddler's scanning power looks very hard to use successfully, so having him is hardly having anything. But Lex Luthor is huge. So if they lack him, that's as good as having no scanner unless they have a Joker who makes a Harley out of a Good scanner.

[Grundbegriff]

If herding 9 cats wasn't a factor at all, whom would you name as your top suspect?

This question is for everyone.

[Isgrimnur]

Riddler's scanning power looks very hard to use successfully, so having him is hardly having anything.

I disagree that Riddler's power is hamstrung, but at the risk of not giving him any ideas, I will refrain from elaborating on that.

[coopasonic]

Riddler's scanning power looks very hard to use successfully, so having him is hardly having anything.

I disagree that Riddler's power is hamstrung, but at the risk of not giving him any ideas, I will refrain from elaborating on that.

 isgrimnur 
 


There. I don't have any idea who is evil, but since Isgrimnur apparently has the power to make useless evil powers useful, he's a danger to us all.

[theohall]

No Vote: coopasonic, purge

Coop and Purge, please pick your favorite candidate for all around evilness. Kthx.

Again with the bull in china shop approach!

Do you have some rule against bulls purchasing china.

In all seriousness, I'm in line with bb2112's desire to see some people participate more. (or at all)
Perhaps some of us just have different pacing that feels fun to us.


Theohall will be by shortly to point the finger at bb2112 for trying to lead us all to our doom or something.
Or me, for defending those without saintly patience.

Already said. No need to repeat it, unless repeating things counts as more participation.

[bb2112]

No Vote: coopasonic, purge

Coop and Purge, please pick your favorite candidate for all around evilness. Kthx.

Again with the bull in china shop approach!

Do you have some rule against bulls purchasing china.

I'm all for making progress. Progress implies participation and change.

I just want to see us optimize our chance of actually making progress in the right direction. We have not much to work with, but something. So I'd like to see participation that consists of more than "Yeah, ok, anything to make the sun set."

I agree with moving things in the right direction. I've made clear what I thought the right direction is, but Purge and Coop may see things different than I do. If they place a vote, we all get more info. Besides, with only 4 votes being the max on someone, how would it become night if Coop and Purge cast votes? By my count it would be 6 votes max if they both happened to vote for Theo. Is that a wrong direction? I thought you were keen on voting Theo?

And if you are suddenly not keen on voting Theo, then what exactly is the wrong direction to you anyway? Your post is confusing me.

[Grundbegriff]

Besides, with only 4 votes being the max on someone, how would it become night if Coop and Purge cast votes?... Your post is confusing me.

Your own misreading is confusing you wholly apart from my efforts!

I'm not against coop or purge doing whatever he wants to do. I was merely pointing out the style of your approach to "encouraging" them: brusque, Pattonesque commands that seem to take for granted your unquestioned (a) goodness and (b) leadership.

It feels as if you're trying to manage things, and that -- as others have pointed out -- feels decidedly lupine.

[triggercut]

Chaos: does Team Villain get the results of any Lex Luthor or Riddler inquiries before they select a target for that evening's kill? If Joker is in the game, does he get that info before selecting a conversion target on that specific night?

[bb2112]

Besides, with only 4 votes being the max on someone, how would it become night if Coop and Purge cast votes?... Your post is confusing me.

Your own misreading is confusing you wholly apart from my efforts!

I'm not against coop or purge doing whatever he wants to do. I was merely pointing out the style of your approach to "encouraging" them: brusque, Pattonesque commands that seem to take for granted your unquestioned (a) goodness and (b) leadership.

It feels as if you're trying to manage things, and that -- as others have pointed out -- feels decidedly lupine.

No, I don't think so. My reading comprehension is quite good. If you said the above the first time around, I would understand better. What you actually wrote was different. You were worried that my pushing votes would get us to night, which it wouldn't, and that my bull in a china shop style would steer us wrong. Which it could, but so far it remains to be seen whether it has helped or hurt.

I just want to see us optimize our chance of actually making progress in the right direction. We have not much to work with, but something. So I'd like to see participation that consists of more than "Yeah, ok, anything to make the sun set."

So, again I ask, if my direction is wrong, what is the "in the right direction" mean to you?

[Mr Bubbles]

Mr Bubbles... I am fairly certain.

[Grundbegriff]

I was merely pointing out the style of your approach to "encouraging" them: brusque, Pattonesque commands that seem to take for granted your unquestioned (a) goodness and (b) leadership.

No, I don't think so. My reading comprehension is quite good. If you said the above the first time around, I would understand better. What you actually wrote was different.

Ok, I'll bite: which part of "bull in a china shop" don't you understand?

You were worried that my pushing votes would get us to night, which it wouldn't, and that my bull in a china shop style would steer us wrong.

icwydt

My point regarding you was that your style has become even more aggressive since you delivered your litany of excuses for being aggressive. My broader point, occasioned by Unagi's entry into the china shop, was applicable to a broader set of factors, since others, not you, had seemed to take the casual "OK, let's nail that one" approach. You seemed to be ginning up more of that carelessness.

I wasn't worried that your pushing votes would get us to night, but that by whatever means, we'd get to night stupidly rather than prudently. I want to know what Isgrimnur and coop and theohall and Bubbles think not when coerced by you in your Think You're The Boss Of Everyone mode, but rather in their own unforced way, as a reflection of their best consideration of the game's state.

In other words, I believe that if we optimize, we stand a decent chance of making progress. I said that before, but you mistook 'making progress' for 'getting us to night'. The former is my concern, and it only happens when we kill an Evil:

I just want to see us optimize our chance of actually making progress in the right direction. We have not much to work with, but something. So I'd like to see participation that consists of more than "Yeah, ok, anything to make the sun set."

So, again I ask, if my direction is wrong, what is the "in the right direction" mean to you?

Really?

 bb2112 
 


I think you're the purloined wolf.

[bb2112]

My point regarding you was that your style has become even more aggressive since you delivered your litany of excuses for being aggressive. My broader point, occasioned by Unagi's entry into the china shop, was applicable to a broader set of factors, since others, not you, had seemed to take the casual "OK, let's nail that one" approach. You seemed to be ginning up more of that carelessness.

Nope. Wrong. I've sat back for a while, and things are degenerating into one off votes again.

I wasn't worried that your pushing votes would get us to night, but that by whatever means, we'd get to night stupidly rather than prudently. I want to know what Isgrimnur and coop and theohall and Bubbles think not when coerced by you in your Think You're The Boss Of Everyone mode, but rather in their own unforced way, as a reflection of their best consideration of the game's state.

Wrong again. I don't think I'm the boss of everyone. I do think I can demand they vote, or give opinions. And in turn, they can demand to do the same of me, or ignore me, or come back at me, or laugh at me, or whatever. They are not locked into their reactions and have free will to choose. However they react though will give me, and others, some information. There is a method to my madness.

In other words, I believe that if we optimize, we stand a decent chance of making progress. I said that before, but you mistook 'making progress' for 'getting us to night'. The former is my concern, and it only happens when we kill an Evil:

That's great. How are you doing that? Voting for me sure isn't going to find an evil. As a matter of fact, you haven't really been hostile to me until now. What is different now? I've started actively going after Theo. Which is funny, because I thought Theo was someone you were suspicious of? I thought you would be a little more eager than this to also place your vote on Theo.

Ok, that was pretty interesting. Reading straight through makes discrepancies stand out in higher relief than they seem to do when experienced in realtime.
The Ugly
Lagom Lite perturbs me in the same measure and for the same reason that he bothers everyone else who was bothered by him: apparent crude opportunism. theohall bothers me because when he's good he's usually a lot more engaged and obnoxious.

Your 180 on Theo and me is incredible. Or should I say not credible. If I wasn't so convinced I am on to something with Theo, I would change my vote back to you. You are not a good Grund.

[Grundbegriff]

That's great. How are you doing that? Voting for me sure isn't going to find an evil. As a matter of fact, you haven't really been hostile to me until now. What is different now?

You know what they say: leave no stone unturned.

 withdraw bb2112 
 

I've started actively going after Theo. Which is funny, because I thought Theo was someone you were suspicious of? I thought you would be a little more eager than this to also place your vote on Theo.

Maybe the difference between us is that I'm mostly lacking in knowledge and you're wholly in possession of it....

Theo is uncharacteristically quiet. I haven't hammered that issue because there are at least two strong reasons for which a player might play that way.

He bothers me; he's not one of the three who bother me the most.

[Grundbegriff]

Ok, that was pretty interesting. Reading straight through makes discrepancies stand out in higher relief than they seem to do when experienced in realtime.
The Ugly
Lagom Lite perturbs me in the same measure and for the same reason that he bothers everyone else who was bothered by him: apparent crude opportunism. theohall bothers me because when he's good he's usually a lot more engaged and obnoxious.

Your 180 on Theo and me is incredible.

Then you're delusional. For my attitude toward theohall hasn't changed a bit, and nothing I've said suggests otherwise. But it seems to me that Bubbles, Isgrimnur, and Lagom Lite are much weirder at this juncture.

Or should I say not credible. If I wasn't so convinced I am on to something with Theo, I would change my vote back to you. You are not a good Grund.

Quoted for later ridicule.

[Chaosraven]

Chaos: does Team Villain get the results of any Lex Luthor or Riddler inquiries before they select a target for that evening's kill? If Joker is in the game, does he get that info before selecting a conversion target on that specific night?

No.

Lex Luthor submits a Scan along with the Villains Attack order. Results given at same time.
Riddler asks question(s) about Hero Roles when DAY starts, after Night Attack is over.
Joker is given the opportunity to Convert a Successful Kill.

[bb2112]

.

Or should I say not credible. If I wasn't so convinced I am on to something with Theo, I would change my vote back to you. You are not a good Grund.

Quoted for later ridicule.

Well, my reaction is only genuine if your prod was. If you were merely testing me to "leave no stone unturned" as you put it, then my above read on you may not be valid.

[Chaosraven]

VOTE

4 theohall - bb2112, Unagi, Austin, Lassr

3 Isgrimnur - RMC, El Guapo, coopasonic

2 bb2112 - Lagom Lite, theohall
2 Unagi - tru1cy, Mr Bubbles

1 Mr Bubbles - triggercut
1 Lagom Lite - Remus West
1 purge - Isgrimnur


No Vote: purge, Grundbegriff



16 Players remain, Majority is 9

[bb2112]

Then you're delusional.

Noted for future ridicule.

[Grundbegriff]

Calculating....

[Grundbegriff]

Then you're delusional.

Noted for future ridicule.

Either a 180 occurred or it did not. If it did not and you think it did, then you're delusional. It did not. You think (or thought until corrected) that it did. QED.

The future ain't got nothin' to do with it.

[bb2112]

Then you're delusional.

Noted for future ridicule.

Either a 180 occurred or it did not. If it did not and you think it did, then you're delusional. It did not. You think (or thought until corrected) that it did. QED.

The future ain't got nothin' to do with it.

Wrong again. Either a 180 occurred, in which case I don't think you are a good Grund, or you were role playing to get a reaction out of me and didn't really believe in your own hype. In which case a 180 did not occur and my reaction was given under false pretenses.

[Grundbegriff]

No 180 occurred, which is why you're unable to point to one. End of story, n'est-ce pas?

[bb2112]

No 180 occurred, which is why you're unable to point to one. End of story, n'est-ce pas?

Fair enough.

[Grundbegriff]

This is like trudging through mucilage.