Neighborhood watch shooting in FL

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Grifman
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Re: Neighborhood watch shooting in FL

Post by Grifman » Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:15 pm

Victoria Raverna wrote:About the lone eyewitness that "saw" Martin was on top of Zimmerman:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... -1.1052713" target="_blank
Police in Sanford, Fla., have said that Austin Brown, who went out to walk his dog on Feb. 26 near where Trayvon was shot, saw Zimmerman lying in the grass crying for help just before the slaying.

But Austin’s mom, Cheryl Brown, told the News that when cops interviewed her son eight days after Trayvon’s death, he told them he saw only one person lying in the grass and he couldn’t tell who it was.

“He kept telling them he couldn't see anything because it was too dark,” she said. “He said he couldn't see the race or anything. He never saw a second person. ”

“Then they asked him if he saw what the man was wearing. They gave him a multiple choice question and gave him three colors. He said, ‘I think it was red.’”

Zimmerman, 28, was wearing a red and black jacket. Trayvon, 17, was wearing a grey hoodie.

“Knowing my son, I believe he felt pressured to give the color,” Brown said.

“He really couldn't see anything,” she said. “I think when interviewing a 13 year old you don't give them three options.”
I guess there was no eyewitness that saw the fight.
You're mistaken. The article mentions two "eyewitnesses", one a man and another the 13 year old you quoted above. However, neither of these is the eyewitness I linked to a couple of time above in prior posts. If you had read the links I provided, you would have known these are not the same people. Here it is again:

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/se ... z1phFMGCu4" target="_blank
A man who witnessed part of the altercation contacted authorities.

"The guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911," said the witness, who asked to be identified only by his first name, John.

John said he locked his patio door, ran upstairs and heard at least one gun shot.

"And then, when I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point."
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silverjon
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Re: Neighborhood watch shooting in FL

Post by silverjon » Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:32 pm

noxiousdog wrote:But again, if Trayvon was the aggressor, he might not show any effects.
They specifically mentioned his hands, and the kinds of injuries you get when you punch somebody in the face.
wot?

To be fair, adolescent power fantasy tripe is way easier to write than absurd existential horror, and every community has got to start somewhere... right?

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Jag
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Re: Neighborhood watch shooting in FL

Post by Jag » Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:33 pm

Grifman wrote:
Jag wrote:SYG exactly is in play here (and that article is shit, I read it).[/i].
LOL! Forgive me if I find the opinion of a blog run by a group of law professors more authoritative than your opinion. That's why we call them "expert" opinions. :)
I wouldn't call this particular guy an expert, unless you consider the fact that the author of that article is also the editor of several gun magazines and articles such as "Guns in the right hands makes society safer!" Funny thing is I thought the article was crap before I read how crappy, whacked out and biased the 'expert' who wrote it was.
Grifman wrote:I think the point is that once Zimmerman is attacked, SYG doesn't matter any more. It's plain self defense. SYG says you don't have to retreat if threatened, and you can respond to the threat of force. Here there's no question of retreat or standing your ground, the attack has taken place, so regular self defense applies.
Assuming arguendo that Zimmerman was attacked, then-- he--stood -- his----ground therefore would be immune under....SYG!
Grifman wrote:Here there's no question of retreat or standing your ground, the attack has taken place, so regular self defense applies.
Zurai wrote:This shows a basic failure to understand what it is that you're talking about.
Agreed

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Re: Neighborhood watch shooting in FL

Post by msduncan » Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:21 am

gameoverman wrote:I read that Spike Lee has settled with that couple he targeted with his retweet.

Haha, what a crazy world. One guy in Florida kills another guy and somehow Spike Lee is the first person who pays in this whole tangled mess.

They are calling it 'settled', but I think Spike Lee just did the right thing. See quote from story below:
“The McClains’ claim is fully resolved,” Matt Morgan, their attorney, said in an email. “Mr. Lee personally called them to give a very heartfelt apology. Further, he agreed to compensate them for their loss and the disruption to their lives.

“The McClains were very moved by Mr. Lee's apology,” Morgan said. “They would like the Lee family to be left in peace,” Morgan said.
So good for Mr. Lee. Good to see someone do the right thing.
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Re: Neighborhood watch shooting in FL

Post by YellowKing » Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:42 am

So good for Mr. Lee. Good to see someone do the right thing.
I see what you did there. :D

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Re: Neighborhood watch shooting in FL

Post by noxiousdog » Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:44 am

silverjon wrote:
noxiousdog wrote:But again, if Trayvon was the aggressor, he might not show any effects.
They specifically mentioned his hands, and the kinds of injuries you get when you punch somebody in the face.
I've punched people in the face. I didn't show any injuries.
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Re: Neighborhood watch shooting in FL

Post by GreenGoo » Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:56 am

noxiousdog wrote:
silverjon wrote:
noxiousdog wrote:But again, if Trayvon was the aggressor, he might not show any effects.
They specifically mentioned his hands, and the kinds of injuries you get when you punch somebody in the face.
I've punched people in the face. I didn't show any injuries.
It's unlikely that they did either, then.

It's hard to imagine feeling your life was threatened if the guy wasn't hitting your hard enough to split the skin on his knuckles, but I guess if he knocked him down and choked him or something. Isn't Zimmermann's story that he got sucker punched and hit the ground from it though?

For the record, I've had to punch people in the face too, and my knuckles are covered in scar tissue.

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Re: Neighborhood watch shooting in FL

Post by noxiousdog » Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:07 am

GreenGoo wrote:
noxiousdog wrote:
silverjon wrote:
noxiousdog wrote:But again, if Trayvon was the aggressor, he might not show any effects.
They specifically mentioned his hands, and the kinds of injuries you get when you punch somebody in the face.
I've punched people in the face. I didn't show any injuries.
It's unlikely that they did either, then.
Right, but we know that Zimmerman (assuming that's him in the video.. I'm skeptical of everything at the moment) didn't show any facial injuries.

It's hard to imagine feeling your life was threatened if the guy wasn't hitting your hard enough to split the skin on his knuckles, but I guess if he knocked him down and choked him or something. Isn't Zimmermann's story that he got sucker punched and hit the ground from it though?
I think you're correct. Is the police report public record yet?
For the record, I've had to punch people in the face too, and my knuckles are covered in scar tissue.
I haven't done it that much. Two times I can remember. Both turned into wrestling matches pretty quickly.
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Re: Neighborhood watch shooting in FL

Post by GreenGoo » Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:36 am

As Gladiator learned me, punching someone's skull really hurts. But the face is full of boney angles and teeth. Even cheek bones are like spikes after the cheek has been squished/flattened.

I would expect punches to the skull to bruise knuckles at a minimum, but I'm fairly sure Zimmermann's injures have been identified as being from having his head smashed on the ground, which would normally be done by grabbing his hair. Since Zimmermann's hair is so short, it was probably done by shoving his head down and Zimmermann lifting it up again, which probably wouldn't result in much marking on Martin.

That's what CSI tells me anyway. :D But in all seriousness, with a case like this, so volatile, I assume there is a coroner's report coming eventually.

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JSHAW
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Re: Neighborhood watch shooting in FL

Post by JSHAW » Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:38 am

So, does anyone want to predict how this situation is going to end?

Shooter finally get's charged, jail time. Murdered in prison?

Shooter is cleared of all charges, Sanford burns to the ground, race war in Florida?

:pop:

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Re: Neighborhood watch shooting in FL

Post by Chaosraven » Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:49 am

msduncan wrote:
This is what happens when you only get your news from Fox News. Here's a more balanced treatment of what happened:
1. Infer or accuse someone of being racist -- CHECK
2. Use "straw man" dismissal of argument -- CHECK
3. Roll out the tired old "OMGZ FOX NEWWWWWWWS!" shit -- CHECK
4. Calling someone an idiot or saying you aren't going to read another thing that person posts? -- CHECK

What's next in this thread from the typical OO political mob: accusations of homophobia? a lecture of how to post better?

I'm sure the other two are coming because in one page you guys have circled the wagons and covered the first four. It really gets old.
You really should use Bullet Points for the list... heh. Bullet Points.
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Re: Neighborhood watch shooting in FL

Post by Chaosraven » Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:04 pm

noxiousdog wrote:
RunningMn9 wrote:
noxiousdog wrote:Anyway, this is all pretty much a philosophical argument. You guys think people carrying handguns are asking for trouble. I don't.
I've talked to enough people carrying handguns to *know* that some of them are desperately hoping that they get a chance to use them. Most of them, no. But a subset of them? They literally can't wait to be threatened.
That's pretty sick. Are you sure it's not just false bravado?
Shoot the leg, Johnnie!
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Re: Neighborhood watch shooting in FL

Post by JSHAW » Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:23 pm

I haven't read through any of the previous pages, not gonna. So I'm going to throw this out there and if sticks to the wall, so be it.

IF Zimmerman was treated for injuries at the scene by EMT's/Medics, those medics would have seen the extent of his injuries and
be able to give sworn statements about those injuries.

SO...no blood, no broken nose, no back of head injuries - "sorry, we didn't see any injuries"

Broken nose, blood on back of head - "yes, we treated him for injuries, here's what they were"

The investigation takes all the info gathered and they take everything to grand jury, and let the chips fall where they're gonna.

Watching this thing unravel there are things that I'm seeing, shaking my head and trying not to take either side, but it's really damn difficult not
to do.

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Re: Neighborhood watch shooting in FL

Post by msduncan » Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:26 pm

JSHAW wrote:So, does anyone want to predict how this situation is going to end?

Shooter finally get's charged, jail time. Murdered in prison?

Shooter is cleared of all charges, Sanford burns to the ground, race war in Florida?

:pop:
Situation works it way through our Justice System which takes an excess of time dragging it out far longer than anyone really wants. Everyone is exhausted by the length of time it takes to do anything at all that nothing happens in either scenario.
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Re: Neighborhood watch shooting in FL

Post by msduncan » Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:27 pm

Chaosraven wrote:
msduncan wrote:
This is what happens when you only get your news from Fox News. Here's a more balanced treatment of what happened:
1. Infer or accuse someone of being racist -- CHECK
2. Use "straw man" dismissal of argument -- CHECK
3. Roll out the tired old "OMGZ FOX NEWWWWWWWS!" shit -- CHECK
4. Calling someone an idiot or saying you aren't going to read another thing that person posts? -- CHECK

What's next in this thread from the typical OO political mob: accusations of homophobia? a lecture of how to post better?

I'm sure the other two are coming because in one page you guys have circled the wagons and covered the first four. It really gets old.
You really should use Bullet Points for the list... heh. Bullet Points.
That's strange. Did the page and a half of battling that the mods cleansed reappear in the thread?

Edit: Good one with the 'bullet points' through. :)
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Re: Neighborhood watch shooting in FL

Post by Chaosraven » Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:40 pm

I finally had a day to sit down and read through this thread, just to understand the references between RW and HepC about LM shooting one of them in his yard.

My two cents is the repeated "Property is Worth More Than Life" and "Life Not In Danger" stuff...

The CRIME is the Offense in the Former, and BODILY HARM is the concern in the Latter, isn't it?

If the law supports the use of X Level of Force to STOP someone committing a Crime, and your level of outrage about this is vehemently against said Law, go do something about that!
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Re: Neighborhood watch shooting in FL

Post by gameoverman » Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:56 pm

JSHAW wrote:So, does anyone want to predict how this situation is going to end?

Shooter finally get's charged, jail time. Murdered in prison?

Shooter is cleared of all charges, Sanford burns to the ground, race war in Florida?

:pop:
Cleared of all charges by state, Feds decline to prosecute for any race based charges.

No race war, at most some random 'payback' killings vaguely motivated by this case. I say vaguely motivated because in truth the racial groups involved do not get along to begin with, so you could say those killings would have happened anyways.

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Re: Neighborhood watch shooting in FL

Post by Reemul » Sat Mar 31, 2012 7:57 am

Following this thread was interest but as an outsider felt I couldn't really comment. One thing though is being from the UK it's amazing how different it seems the Amercians are from us English people, from killing people to owning guns to the anger and outrage and so one.

While we may speak the same language it seems in many ways we just aren't the same. It makes me sad to see this whole issue happening and how we as humans are developing and becoming.

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Re: Neighborhood watch shooting in FL

Post by Chrisoc13 » Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:46 pm

Reemul wrote:Following this thread was interest but as an outsider felt I couldn't really comment. One thing though is being from the UK it's amazing how different it seems the Amercians are from us English people, from killing people to owning guns to the anger and outrage and so one.

While we may speak the same language it seems in many ways we just aren't the same. It makes me sad to see this whole issue happening and how we as humans are developing and becoming.
Expound please.

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Re: Neighborhood watch shooting in FL

Post by Chaosraven » Sat Mar 31, 2012 3:21 pm

Meh.

What's the Percentage of Crazies? People have been killing each other FOREVER, with any type of available implement of demisemaking.

We all make the cooing sounds of civilized roosting happy birds, but really... mention an atrocity committed MILES away or YEARS ago, and the AngryBird Instinct rears it head and we want to SMASH CRUSH and KNOCK SHIT DOWN.

Look at any responses to (innocence lost)/(badguydoesbadshit) threads on here.
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Re: Neighborhood watch shooting in FL

Post by Chaosraven » Sat Mar 31, 2012 3:35 pm

The most recently published comparative homicide figures published by Eurostat compare homicide rates averaged over the years 2006 to 2008 wrote: Country Rate per million population
Finland 23.4 Portugal 14.6 Greece 10.4
Scotland 21.4 France 13.7 Netherlands 10.2
Ireland 20.0 England and Wales 13.5 Spain 10.2
Belgium 19.7 Denmark 12.2 Germany 8.4
Luxembourg 16.1 Italy 11.3 Austria 6.1
Northern Ireland 15.2 Sweden 10.6

Among the countries that joined the EU on or after May 2004, rates for Eastern European
countries tend to be higher, rising to 87.6 in Lithuania and 66.0 in Estonia, though the rate for
Poland is 12.9, which is lower than that for England and Wales.
Although the rate of murder and non-negligent manslaughter in the USA has fallen
substantially in recent years, to 56 per million population in 2008, it is still well above those
experienced in Western Europe
Though it would appear they split their Butchery a bit differently, preferring a sharp instrument.
"Where are you off to?"
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The door shut again and Snufkin entered his forest, with a hundred miles of silence ahead of him.

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Re: Neighborhood watch shooting in FL

Post by Rip » Sat Mar 31, 2012 3:38 pm

Chaosraven wrote:
The most recently published comparative homicide figures published by Eurostat compare homicide rates averaged over the years 2006 to 2008 wrote: Country Rate per million population
Finland 23.4 Portugal 14.6 Greece 10.4
Scotland 21.4 France 13.7 Netherlands 10.2
Ireland 20.0 England and Wales 13.5 Spain 10.2
Belgium 19.7 Denmark 12.2 Germany 8.4
Luxembourg 16.1 Italy 11.3 Austria 6.1
Northern Ireland 15.2 Sweden 10.6

Among the countries that joined the EU on or after May 2004, rates for Eastern European
countries tend to be higher, rising to 87.6 in Lithuania and 66.0 in Estonia, though the rate for
Poland is 12.9, which is lower than that for England and Wales.
Although the rate of murder and non-negligent manslaughter in the USA has fallen
substantially in recent years, to 56 per million population in 2008, it is still well above those
experienced in Western Europe
Though it would appear they split their Butchery a bit differently, preferring a sharp instrument.
and watch out for the headbutt. Scottish bastards love to do that!

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Re: Neighborhood watch shooting in FL

Post by Moat_Man » Sat Mar 31, 2012 3:54 pm

In case anyone is wondering the Canadian rate of homicides per million people in 2010 was 16.29. There were 554 homicides in 2010.

Homicides: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableau ... 2a-eng.htm" target="_blank

Population: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population ... da_by_year" target="_blank
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Re: Neighborhood watch shooting in FL

Post by Bob » Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:52 am

The Orlando Sentinel decided not to wait for the Justice department's voice experts and did their own analysis of the 911 recording.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/201 ... -certainty" target="_blank
A leading expert in the field of forensic voice identification sought to answer that question by analyzing the recordings for the Orlando Sentinel.

His result: It was not George Zimmerman who called for help.
Uh oh.
Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?

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Re: Neighborhood watch shooting in FL

Post by AjD » Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:28 am

Bob wrote:
A leading expert in the field of forensic voice identification sought to answer that question by analyzing the recordings for the Orlando Sentinel.

His result: It was not George Zimmerman who called for help.
Uh oh.
And also this:
The director of the Fort Lauderdale funeral home where Trayvon Martin's body was taken says there were no marks of the teenager that would support the argument that he was punching or in some kind of scuffle prior to his death.
Funeral director: No signs of fight on Trayvon Martin

And this:
A woman who says she and her roommate witnessed the final moments of Trayvon Martin's life told Dateline NBC that George Zimmerman had "his hands pressed on his back" and "never turned him over or tried to help him." Mary Cutcher told Dateline that she and her roommate both saw Zimmerman "straddling the body, basically a foot on both sides of Trayvon's body, and his hands pressed on his back."
Witness: Zimmerman 'never ... tried to help' Trayvon Martin

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Re: Neighborhood watch shooting in FL

Post by GreenGoo » Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:08 am

Time for a medical examiner's report.

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Re: Neighborhood watch shooting in FL

Post by Anonymous Bosch » Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:48 am

Rip wrote:
Chaosraven wrote:
The most recently published comparative homicide figures published by Eurostat compare homicide rates averaged over the years 2006 to 2008 wrote: Country Rate per million population
Finland 23.4 Portugal 14.6 Greece 10.4
Scotland 21.4 France 13.7 Netherlands 10.2
Ireland 20.0 England and Wales 13.5 Spain 10.2
Belgium 19.7 Denmark 12.2 Germany 8.4
Luxembourg 16.1 Italy 11.3 Austria 6.1
Northern Ireland 15.2 Sweden 10.6

Among the countries that joined the EU on or after May 2004, rates for Eastern European
countries tend to be higher, rising to 87.6 in Lithuania and 66.0 in Estonia, though the rate for
Poland is 12.9, which is lower than that for England and Wales.
Although the rate of murder and non-negligent manslaughter in the USA has fallen
substantially in recent years, to 56 per million population in 2008, it is still well above those
experienced in Western Europe
Though it would appear they split their Butchery a bit differently, preferring a sharp instrument.
and watch out for the headbutt. Scottish bastards love to do that!
AKA "The Glasgow Kiss".
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Re: Neighborhood watch shooting in FL

Post by msduncan » Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:26 pm

Firstly:

The expert's findings in forensic voice identification? Troubling for Zimmerman. Knocks a hole in his defense if what we are hearing about his account of the situation is accurate. At this point I'm taking whatever the media feeds us with a grain of salt.

Secondly:

The fact that Zimmerman didn't try to help Martin? Irrelevant. If his defense is that he was attacked and defended himself, why would he try to then turn around and help the person that attacked him?
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It's a college football record 61 bowl appearances.
It's 34 bowl victories.
It's 24 Southeastern Conference Championships.
It's 15 National Championships.

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Re: Neighborhood watch shooting in FL

Post by triggercut » Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:36 pm

Bob wrote:The Orlando Sentinel decided not to wait for the Justice department's voice experts and did their own analysis of the 911 recording.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/201 ... -certainty" target="_blank
A leading expert in the field of forensic voice identification sought to answer that question by analyzing the recordings for the Orlando Sentinel.

His result: It was not George Zimmerman who called for help.
Uh oh.
Yep. I'm not going to join a chorus in pronouncing George Zimmerman guilty of anything, but I am seeing enough evidence out there to suggest that he should have been charged and should be charged with at least manslaughter, and should be brought to trial and receive due process.
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Re: Neighborhood watch shooting in FL

Post by Mr. Fed » Sun Apr 01, 2012 3:44 pm

NBC deceptively alters 911 call for broadcast.
Great news right there. As exposed by Fox News and media watchdog site NewsBusters, the “Today” segment took this approach to a key part of the dispatcher call:

Zimmerman: This guy looks like he’s up to no good. He looks black.

Here’s how the actual conversation went down:

Zimmerman: This guy looks like he’s up to no good. Or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about.

Dispatcher: OK, and this guy — is he black, white or Hispanic?

Zimmerman: He looks black.
Whoever did that should never work in journalism again.
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Re: Neighborhood watch shooting in FL

Post by Captain Caveman » Sun Apr 01, 2012 4:15 pm

Mr. Fed wrote:NBC deceptively alters 911 call for broadcast.
Great news right there. As exposed by Fox News and media watchdog site NewsBusters, the “Today” segment took this approach to a key part of the dispatcher call:

Zimmerman: This guy looks like he’s up to no good. He looks black.

Here’s how the actual conversation went down:

Zimmerman: This guy looks like he’s up to no good. Or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about.

Dispatcher: OK, and this guy — is he black, white or Hispanic?

Zimmerman: He looks black.
Whoever did that should never work in journalism again.
He doesn't. He works at the Today show.

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rhinohelix
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Re: Neighborhood watch shooting in FL

Post by rhinohelix » Sun Apr 01, 2012 4:21 pm

msduncan wrote:Firstly:

The expert's findings in forensic voice identification? Troubling for Zimmerman. Knocks a hole in his defense if what we are hearing about his account of the situation is accurate. At this point I'm taking whatever the media feeds us with a grain of salt.

Secondly:

The fact that Zimmerman didn't try to help Martin? Irrelevant. If his defense is that he was attacked and defended himself, why would he try to then turn around and help the person that attacked him?
There is so much noise about "evidence" in the case at this point it going to be even more difficult for anyone to determine what happened. Did Zimmerman so "f*cking c**ns" or "it's f*cking cold" on the 911 tape? Did Martin attack a bus driver or have "burglary tools" on him when he was suspended? Wasn't there a witness who reported opening the door, seeing Martin on top of Zimmerman, and hearing him shout for help while calling 911? Then the new witness who saw Zimmerman on top of Martin? Then also the recently reported fact that the closest store to neighborhood that Martin was going to get Skittles is over a mile from the house he was coming from, and that there is no mention by the police of the Skittles/Arizona Iced Tea his family's legal team was referring to in their initial statements. Now the Funeral Director/Orlando Sentinel reports on top of that.

The problem we have now is that every party involved is running up the spin machine to 11 and there is very little to actually go on. Meanwhile, agitators are pushing the race angle so hard there is going to be violence in the streets somewhere if there isn't the verdict they demand.
Stars swelled to dawns, and dawns burst into fountains of gold, carmine, and purple, and still the dreamer fell.

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JSHAW
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Re: Neighborhood watch shooting in FL

Post by JSHAW » Sun Apr 01, 2012 4:43 pm

The problem we have now is that every party involved is running up the spin machine to 11 and there is very little to actually go on. Meanwhile, agitators are pushing the race angle so hard there is going to be violence in the streets somewhere if there isn't the verdict they demand.
The one thing that I feel needs to be addressed BEFORE a final report is released to the media IF it proves that Zimmerman won't be charged is this;

The governor of Florida needs to have his state national guard on stand by, and have them ready to be deployed to Sanford before the official announcement
is made. If they aren't, and Zimmerman isn't charged, not arrested, the city of Sanford could wind up looking like L.A did after the Rodney King verdict was
announced. OR, I hope the Sanford Police Dept. has adequate staffing to handle the problem.

You've got Sharpton coming pretty close to inciting civil unrest, and every pro-Trayvon activist down there wanting Zimmerman's head on a platter.
The place is gonna be a power keg waiting to explode. If they don't get the verdict they demand it won't suprise me to see people in Sanford rioting
in the streets.

I hope I am 100% wrong on this one, but to me things aren't looking good for a peaceful resolution, unless Zimmerman is charged and arrested.
If the facts prove that he should be arrested, so be it.

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mike
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Re: Neighborhood watch shooting in FL

Post by mike » Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:53 pm

Not really a mirror of what happened, but I am reminded of this:

A Time To Kill

If a black man shot a white kid, I do wonder how different it would play out.
/\/\ike

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noxiousdog
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Re: Neighborhood watch shooting in FL

Post by noxiousdog » Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:34 am

mike wrote:Not really a mirror of what happened, but I am reminded of this:

A Time To Kill

If a black man shot a white kid, I do wonder how different it would play out.
Signed, OJ Simpson. Or does that not count because he's celebrity?
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RuperT
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Re: Neighborhood watch shooting in FL

Post by RuperT » Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:39 am

Another big problem with Stand Your Ground in Florida is that the alternative is so bad.
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Remus West
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Re: Neighborhood watch shooting in FL

Post by Remus West » Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:29 am

Reemul wrote:Following this thread was interest but as an outsider felt I couldn't really comment. One thing though is being from the UK it's amazing how different it seems the Amercians are from us English people, from killing people to owning guns to the anger and outrage and so one.

While we may speak the same language it seems in many ways we just aren't the same. It makes me sad to see this whole issue happening and how we as humans are developing and becoming.
You do realize that one of the main reasons guns are so engrained in our culture is that we needed them to get your nation's boot off our throat, don't you? As for how "we as humans are developing and becoming" you should probably do some light reading into the history of man. We are beasts. Look at the bloody eagle the Norsemen used to make out of their enemies. The beheadings in the Middle East. Genocidal wars in Africa and the Baltics. There is a sadly almost unending list of the barbarity of man versus man.
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken

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GreenGoo
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Re: Neighborhood watch shooting in FL

Post by GreenGoo » Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:49 am

Remus West wrote:You do realize that one of the main reasons guns are so engrained in our culture is that we needed them to get your nation's boot off our throat, don't you? As for how "we as humans are developing and becoming" you should probably do some light reading into the history of man. We are beasts. Look at the bloody eagle the Norsemen used to make out of their enemies. The beheadings in the Middle East. Genocidal wars in Africa and the Baltics. There is a sadly almost unending list of the barbarity of man versus man.
Remus, keeping the dream alive.

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Bob
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Re: Neighborhood watch shooting in FL

Post by Bob » Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:50 am

GreenGoo wrote:
Remus West wrote:You do realize that one of the main reasons guns are so engrained in our culture is that we needed them to get your nation's boot off our throat, don't you?
Remus, keeping the dream alive.
Ain't you from Canukistan or sumthin'? Stay outta 'merica bizness, commie.
Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?

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GreenGoo
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Re: Neighborhood watch shooting in FL

Post by GreenGoo » Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:55 am

:P

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