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Shogun Total War 2 Expansion

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Shogun Total War 2 Expansion

Postby Matrix » Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:26 pm

The Creative Assembly have just announced that they’ll be releasing a huge standalone expansion for Total War: Shogun 2 called Fall of the Samurai. It will be set in the period leading up to the Boshin War, in which European and American forces introduce a new wave of military technology that threatens to wipe out the Samurai.

Fall of the Samurai will add six new factions. Some, like the Nagaoka, sill support the might of the Shogun. Others, like the Satsuma clan, want to embrace Imperial power. Externally, British, French and American forces are vying for influence in the Land of the Rising Sun. Over the course of the campaign, you’ll get to decide Japan’s fate.

New tech trees will reflect the evolving technology of a country adapting to the influx of devastating new weaponry from the west. That technology includes new naval units like “steamers, torpedo boats and mighty Ironclad battleships.” For the first time in Total War, these will be able to launch artillery attack on land units from the safety of the sea. Coastal defences will also be able to launch ranged attacks on incoming fleets, and the fight for influence will rage across a new campaign map that will incorporate the Northern Ezo territories and railways. Railways can be used to move troops incredibly fast, and can be sabotaged by the enemy.

On the battlefield, 39 new units will be available, including Gatling guns, US Marines and British Royal Marines. There will be three new agent types, Foreign Veteran, the Ishin Shishi and the Shinshengumi. These campaign map agents will have all new progression trees, and the Geisha and Ninja skills will be updated.

The six new factions are divided into pro-Shogunate and pro-Imperial groups. The Aizu, Nagaoka, and Jozai clans fight for traditional Japan, while the Choshu, Satsuma and Tosa factions fight for the Empire.

A number of improvements will be made to siege battles. New tower defenses can be upgraded and specialized to become archery, matchlock or gatling gun towers. A new “port siege” battle will let armadas brave coastal defenses to take control of coastal towns by occupying their harbors.

Shogun 2′s multiplayer features will also be expanded. You’ll be able to create a separate Fall of the Samurai avatar with access to 40 new retainers, 30 new armour pieces and a new tech tree. There will be a new 19th century conquest map and you’ll be able to create multiple avatars to try out different tech tree builds.


Fall of the Samurai is shaping up to be a huge update. It’s standalone, too, so you won’t need Shogun 2 to play it. It’s due out in March.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/11/28/total ... 0&ns_fee=0

Anyone excited? i always played the least on water in TW series, i always found it either immensely confusing or just didnt enjoy it much. I like the land + water combination, that part should be interesting. I played first shogun total war a lot, second for some reason i player modestly.
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Re: Shogun Total War 2 Expansion

Postby hepcat » Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:35 pm

I'm always a bit wary about standalone expansions. They tend to command a higher price than a regular expansion while still giving you about the same as a one. Also, I'm not a fan of having two separate installs of a program that have a lot of duplicated code. Combine them for a smaller footprint, dagnabit.

of course, i'm just nitpicking and i'll obviously buy this on day one.
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Re: Shogun Total War 2 Expansion

Postby Octavious » Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:40 pm

When they released Napoleon did they sell it as a expansion pack? I'm pretty sure they billed it as a whole new game which miffed some people. I'm pretty burnt out on the series at this point so I doubt I'll be grabbing it anytime soon. They really got wayyyyy too far into the whole DLC thing which I really hate. A blood pack dlc? Really!?!!? :grund:
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Re: Shogun Total War 2 Expansion

Postby tgb » Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:51 pm

Octavious wrote: They really got wayyyyy too far into the whole DLC thing which I really hate. A blood pack dlc? Really!?!!? :grund:


I agree that blood packs and dlc's that offer nothing more than additional sprites are ridiculous. But to not buy a game because of them?

I must have missed your post about how the guys from CA broke into your house, kidnapped your daughter, and refused to release her until you spent the $3.
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Re: Shogun Total War 2 Expansion

Postby Octavious » Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:11 pm

Oh no I'm not buying the game because I'm burnt out on the series.

Does kind of make me lose some respect for a company when they nickle and dime us to death. Which is pretty much most of the companies now. :(
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Re: Shogun Total War 2 Expansion

Postby Doomboy » Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:38 pm

I think this expansion is going to be better than Napoleon was. Napoleon turned out to be a bit of a wash for me. I was hoping I would love it, and parts of it were better than Empire, but for the most part it just felt smaller.

This Shogun 2 expansion sounds like it changes everything around, and it at least takes place on the same size map (maybe with a new island in the north, I have heard), with more factions and things to do. Sounds like a winner to me. I wish I had it to play right now. I guess I will just have to wait until they release it though.
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Re: Shogun Total War 2 Expansion

Postby Little Raven » Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:00 pm

Sounds great! I haven't even played Rise of the Samurai yet but I'm sure I'll get this when it comes out.

Shogun 2 has renewed my faith in CA. It's everything I wanted a TW game to be.

Now if they would only release a DLC that added more castles. I'd gladly fork over 5 or 10 bucks for that.
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Re: Shogun Total War 2 Expansion

Postby Doomboy » Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:46 pm

Little Raven wrote:Sounds great! I haven't even played Rise of the Samurai yet but I'm sure I'll get this when it comes out.

Shogun 2 has renewed my faith in CA. It's everything I wanted a TW game to be.

Now if they would only release a DLC that added more castles. I'd gladly fork over 5 or 10 bucks for that.


They added more castles to the main campaign with a patch a few months ago, apparently. According to PC Gamer:

PC Gamer wrote:Free castle pack

Three newly-designed castles specifically for the Shogun 2 campaign map:

1 standard sized castle of new configuration
1 standard sized castle on a clifftop with limited approaches
1 top-tier castle, considerably larger than any other castle in Shogun 2


Each castle appears across five maps, resulting in 15 new siege battle-map variants.
These maps do not appear in the Rise of The Samurai DLC campaign.
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Re: Shogun Total War 2 Expansion

Postby Matrix » Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:59 am

Ohh didnt know about castles, i might need to revisit shogun. I think i will just restart campaign, since they did a lot of updates lately, maybe get a DLC while i am at it.
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Re: Shogun Total War 2 Expansion

Postby Sepiche » Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:32 am

Out this Friday. Looking sweeeet:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udta9VwQ90k
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Re: Shogun Total War 2 Expansion

Postby Citizen » Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:57 am

...yet there are no seiges in Shogun TW 2 - At least not in vanilla. Something about Japanese buildings being built to withstand earthquakes which allows me to simply climb the walls. I got burned on Napolean for $49, then bit again on Shogun because it was the first and I had fond memories. I say no to DLC and most certainly a NO to a stand alone expansions. The vanilla version always sucks anyway, so let it go bargin bin steam sale which will also give the modders time to make the game fun.
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Re: Shogun Total War 2 Expansion

Postby Little Raven » Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:12 am

Oh man, that expansion looks SWEET!
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Re: Shogun Total War 2 Expansion

Postby WarPanda » Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:44 am

I cannot wait to play this. Sepiche get ready for some multiplayer man.
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Re: Shogun Total War 2 Expansion

Postby Sepiche » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:51 am

Ignore the cheesy intro and there's some good footage of the game in there:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... G2C8TaPDwg

Edit: Pretty sweet video of a naval bombardment during battle starting at around 6:15.
Cannons & first person mode are shown off around 7:30
Gatling guns are shown around 8:15
Naval battle (with HMS Warrior) starts around 10:30
Torpedo hit is shown around 13:25

Oh, and 40 units per stack!
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Re: Shogun Total War 2 Expansion

Postby Sepiche » Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:27 pm

This one's a bit longer and shows off the campaign map a little more including railroads:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7gm4diPOL8
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Re: Shogun Total War 2 Expansion

Postby Doomboy » Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:31 pm

I want to click on those videos. But I also want to play it on Friday and have it all be new to me. So I think I will avoid clicking. What's a couple more days? (argh!)

40 unit stacks make it sound like my video card might melt. I hope there is an option to go with the regular amount of units.
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Re: Shogun Total War 2 Expansion

Postby Sepiche » Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:45 pm

Doomboy wrote:40 unit stacks make it sound like my video card might melt. I hope there is an option to go with the regular amount of units.

I don't think 20 unit stacks are an option, but you can still control the size of units, so hopefully that will keep your computer from imploding. :P

Watching those videos it's pretty clear why they went with 40 unit stacks... the amount of damage a well equipped army with naval support can do is staggering and you need those extra units just to survive long enough to get in melee range. The second video in particular has a massive land battle with a more advanced army slaughtering a traditional army.
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Re: Shogun Total War 2 Expansion

Postby tgb » Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:14 am

GamersGate seems to have this available today - the listing now says "New" instead of "Pre-order". Who will take the bullet?

[edit] It's available on Steam as well. For some reason I thought this didn't hit until tomorrow. Also Greenman Gaming has it for $20, but I think you just get a Steam code.

Impressions, anyone? At $20 I'm about ready to pull the trigger.
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Re: Shogun Total War 2 Expansion

Postby Sepiche » Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:11 am

tgb wrote:GamersGate seems to have this available today - the listing now says "New" instead of "Pre-order". Who will take the bullet?

[edit] It's available on Steam as well. For some reason I thought this didn't hit until tomorrow. Also Greenman Gaming has it for $20, but I think you just get a Steam code.

Impressions, anyone? At $20 I'm about ready to pull the trigger.

It was supposed to drop tomorrow around noon, but I hope this is the case. Sadly I won't be able to try it until later, but I'll post impressions when I do.

Those videos I posted earlier should give you a fairly good idea of some of the changes though.
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Re: Shogun Total War 2 Expansion

Postby dbt1949 » Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:24 am

I just bought Shogun2 and Rise of the Samurai for a total of $10 a couple of days ago. Started messing with it yesterday. Now they're adding a new patch. I wonder if it has anything to do with this one.
With the extra units does this one require a better video card?
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Re: Shogun Total War 2 Expansion

Postby Sepiche » Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:28 am

dbt1949 wrote:I just bought Shogun2 and Rise of the Samurai for a total of $10 a couple of days ago. Started messing with it yesterday. Now they're adding a new patch. I wonder if it has anything to do with this one.
With the extra units does this one require a better video card?

I think I heard that, even though it's standalone, it will still be a menu option in the main game for anyone that owns it.

If you're right on the edge I would imagine you might need to lower the unit size a bit or tweak some graphic options, but the minimum hardware specs are the same between them at least.
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Re: Shogun Total War 2 Expansion

Postby tgb » Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:00 am

I worry about how my video card (Geforce 9800 XT) will handle the bigger stacks.

What I really want to know is if the Realm Divide has been tuned down a bit, because it killed vanilla Shogun 2 for me. I get that putting up a roadblock to keep you from steamrolling all over the map is typical CA design, and that's fine, but the fact that even your allies and vassals turned on you seemed a bit much, and made diplomacy meaningless.
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Re: Shogun Total War 2 Expansion

Postby Sepiche » Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:02 am

On the topic of stack sizes... I actually just read a clarification from one of the devs:
Jack Lusted wrote:Clarification on 40 units item in patch notes. Campaign army stacks are still limited to 20 units, but you can control 40 units in a campaign battle if you have 2 full stacks. See below pic:

Seems I misunderstood that. :|

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=529538

Edit: Oh wow, it looks like that patch for Shogun 2 is pretty massive as well. Lots of bug fixes to the base game in addition to things from FotS being added to it like the 40 unit battles.
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=529388
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Re: Shogun Total War 2 Expansion

Postby Sepiche » Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:18 pm

tgb wrote:What I really want to know is if the Realm Divide has been tuned down a bit, because it killed vanilla Shogun 2 for me. I get that putting up a roadblock to keep you from steamrolling all over the map is typical CA design, and that's fine, but the fact that even your allies and vassals turned on you seemed a bit much, and made diplomacy meaningless.

As I understand it in FotS it works a little differently and sounds like a great compromise for people that want an extra challenge late game, and those that don't.

Once you fill up your prestige bar in FotS you'll be given an option of who you want to formally declare for... the emperor or the shogun. That makes the end game a little more of an even war between the members of each faction. There's also apparently a third option to declare yourself an independent republic where you'll have to fight off both other factions to win, and that's the option for people who want more of a challenge.

For any history buffs, that option is based on the Ezo Republic which briefly formed toward the end of the Meiji Restoration.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Ezo
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Re: Shogun Total War 2 Expansion

Postby tgb » Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:31 pm

Sepiche wrote:
tgb wrote:What I really want to know is if the Realm Divide has been tuned down a bit, because it killed vanilla Shogun 2 for me. I get that putting up a roadblock to keep you from steamrolling all over the map is typical CA design, and that's fine, but the fact that even your allies and vassals turned on you seemed a bit much, and made diplomacy meaningless.

As I understand it in FotS it works a little differently and sounds like a great compromise for people that want an extra challenge late game, and those that don't.

Once you fill up your prestige bar in FotS you'll be given an option of who you want to formally declare for... the emperor or the shogun. That makes the end game a little more of an even war between the members of each faction. There's also apparently a third option to declare yourself an independent republic where you'll have to fight off both other factions to win, and that's the option for people who want more of a challenge.

For any history buffs, that option is based on the Ezo Republic which briefly formed toward the end of the Meiji Restoration.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Ezo


Does that mean that you can play most of the game aligned with one faction and then switch at that point if you see the other is winning? Not to be overly negative, but that sounds a bit gamey to me.
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Re: Shogun Total War 2 Expansion

Postby Sepiche » Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:38 pm

tgb wrote:Does that mean that you can play most of the game aligned with one faction and then switch at that point if you see the other is winning? Not to be overly negative, but that sounds a bit gamey to me.

From what I've seen you can switch sides at any time, but I suspect there will be some penalties for doing that... an honor hit at least I would expect, but I don't know that for sure.

Edit: After messing around with it a bit... you can change allegiance, but once you do you won't be able to switch again until you have a new daimyo, and you take a diplomatic and happiness hit for a while after switching.
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Re: Shogun Total War 2 Expansion

Postby hepcat » Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:10 pm

tgb wrote:Also Greenman Gaming has it for $20, but I think you just get a Steam code.

Impressions, anyone? At $20 I'm about ready to pull the trigger.


Ah, that's the ticket. Thanks for the heads up. Bought it and then activated it on steam with no issues. I bought shogun 2 off greenmangaming when it was released as they had it for 33 percent off then as well. they must have some kind of deal with the studio.
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Re: Shogun Total War 2 Expansion

Postby tgb » Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:54 pm

I was getting ready to pull the trigger when I remembered that I bought Rise of the Samurai during the last Steam sale but never played it.

I think I'll tackle that one first, and by the time I'm done this will be really cheap.
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Re: Shogun Total War 2 Expansion

Postby hepcat » Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:59 pm

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Re: Shogun Total War 2 Expansion

Postby Sepiche » Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:58 pm

U.S. Marines fighting alongside samurai.
Enlarge Image

Great game or greatest game?
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Re: Shogun Total War 2 Expansion

Postby Zurai » Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:15 pm

I just finished my first campaign. Holy shit, modern units obliterate traditional units. Also, a handful of cannons and naval support will win even top-tier castle sieges all by themselves (except maybe against gun emplacements). Cannons have absurd range and a direct hit will kill like 10-15 people (more if they're stacked densely), and naval artillery will just fuck shit up. A Wide bombardment with explosive shells was enough to basically depopulate the entire upper tier of a castle for me.
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Re: Shogun Total War 2 Expansion

Postby Doomboy » Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:11 pm

I have been having a blast with Fall of the Samurai. I decided to lower the number of guys in each unit, just to be on the safe side if any 40x40 battles occur. I tell myself that there probably wouldn't be thousands of guys on each side anyway in any particular battle at this time.

The artillery is awesome. I think it will probably be getting a nerf hammer soon. I hope it doesn't, but in each game up to this one, they have had great arty that gets lowered in accuracy and damage with the first patch. I personally love the carnage.

I'm not sure I'm playing it right though. I started as the Shimazu and I went straight for development and westernizing my army. I actually have no idea which side is supposed to be for traditional units, and which side is supposed to want rifles. The intro video didn't make it clear, either.

I still haven't had a naval battle yet. Looking forward to that.

All in all, I love this combination of Shogun + Napoleon. It is weirdly alien having my Japanese troops lining up and blasting away with rifles instead of charging in with swords. But in a way that I am really enjoying.
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Re: Shogun Total War 2 Expansion

Postby Zurai » Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:39 pm

Theoretically, the Shogunate is for modernizing and the Imperial faction is for tradition, but both sides have major clans that get benefits for traditional and modern gameplay. That said, heavily-Imperial provinces seem to have really nasty unhappiness for modernization.

Also, there's a hidden win condition. The objectives say you have to have X number of provinces yourself and your side must have Y>X provinces, but if you manage to wipe out the other faction before hitting X provinces, you still win.
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Re: Shogun Total War 2 Expansion

Postby Sepiche » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:54 am

Wow. Be sure to research explosive shells if you plan on fighting any naval battles. I'm in the mid-game now and, while the AI is pretty ruthless in harassing your ports now, I've been able to rout larger AI fleets by using explosive shells on his still wooden ships. Only a 3 or 4 volleys is usually enough to set them on fire and get the ship to surrender.

Sadly my only ironclad took a lot of hits from AP shells in it's first battle and I didn't have the 2500 needed to repair it so I scrapped it to save money. The best ships are pretty expensive.
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Re: Shogun Total War 2 Expansion

Postby tgb » Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:47 pm

I finally got this today, and the first thing I noticed was AI weirdness - Playing as the Jozai, starting at war with my neighbor to the North, the Koga. It's Winter, and we both have armies standing at the border, staring at each other, waiting for Spring. The big difference is I have a couple of gunboats, but he apparently has no navy at all.

So while waiting for nicer weather, I decide to see if I can bombard his army that's just sitting there, and how he will react. I spent the next 3 months lobbing shells into his camp, killing off units and members of the General's (the Daimyo) retinue, and the army never moved. Even though they could have moved out of the range of my gunboats and remained in the same province, it never did. It just sat there, getting shelled.

Granted, I started on "easy" just to get a feel for the new mechanics, but geez.......
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Re: Shogun Total War 2 Expansion

Postby Pyperkub » Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:58 pm

I'm concerned about the modern units and balance. Are they too powerful or does the (single player) game treat them well? I almost think I'd rather have the original if I were choosing between the two...
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Re: Shogun Total War 2 Expansion

Postby Sepiche » Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:59 pm

tgb wrote:I finally got this today, and the first thing I noticed was AI weirdness - Playing as the Jozai, starting at war with my neighbor to the North, the Koga. It's Winter, and we both have armies standing at the border, staring at each other, waiting for Spring. The big difference is I have a couple of gunboats, but he apparently has no navy at all.

So while waiting for nicer weather, I decide to see if I can bombard his army that's just sitting there, and how he will react. I spent the next 3 months lobbing shells into his camp, killing off units and members of the General's (the Daimyo) retinue, and the army never moved. Even though they could have moved out of the range of my gunboats and remained in the same province, it never did. It just sat there, getting shelled.

Granted, I started on "easy" just to get a feel for the new mechanics, but geez.......

Yeah, the game is good for the most part, but there's definitely a couple patches worth of little things to fix. I suspect they just need to update the AI a little more to handle all the new additions intelligently to fix a lot of issues.
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Re: Shogun Total War 2 Expansion

Postby Zurai » Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:14 pm

Pyperkub wrote:I'm concerned about the modern units and balance. Are they too powerful or does the (single player) game treat them well? I almost think I'd rather have the original if I were choosing between the two...


Guns trump swords pretty hard, but even the "traditional" forces get access to guns. Just not well-trained guns (foreign marines, line infantry, etc). Also, even most of the well-trained gun units really, really suck in melee, so if you can get even a cheap spear unit in melee with them they'll either lose badly or at least get tied up in melee combat for the entire rest of the battle.

On the up side, traditional units are way cheaper than modern ones. Good modern units cost 1000+ per unit; traditional units more closely resemble standard Shogun 2 prices.
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Re: Shogun Total War 2 Expansion

Postby Sepiche » Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:35 pm

I was worried about the balance at first until I realized the game isn't really about a traditional faction versus a modern one... both factions are really intended up work their way to modernization, but your clan, preferred strategy, and happiness can dictate how fast you want to do it.

The role of traditional units is really as one option in the early to mid game. They have their advantages and disadvantages, but really do pretty well on the whole versus early modern units, especially with a little artillery or rifle support. Once you start getting into the mid and late game though you should really be transitioning away from melee units as they just can't handle the firepower late game armies can throw out there.
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Re: Shogun Total War 2 Expansion

Postby tgb » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:09 am

In Vanilla Shogun 2, didn't an alliance include indefinite military access, or am I misremembering? In my current game, my main army got stranded because surrounding provinces were captured by my "allies", who then refused me access.
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