Game of Thrones - Season 2 Discussion

[Odin]

I was surprised to hear that they've changed the title theme. Most surprising is the fact that I haven't seen anyone else mention this so far, so it caught me completely flat-footed. The changes aren't exactly massive, but they are noticeable. I suspect I'll prefer this new version as it sounds more natural and dynamic than the original, which was made in a hurry.

As I was watching it, I thought, "Is this different?" but didn't pay that much attention otherwise. I kind of assumed they might have needed to make it longer to accommodate all the additional cast members or something.

The part at the end (you know what I'm talking about) was pretty gruesome to watch. I wonder how many viewers they'll lose to that particular scene alone.

If we're talking about the scene with the guards going around killing people (mostly kids), my only real surprise was that they didn't make it clearer who those people were. Unless they did and I missed it. I got who they were, but I'm not sure I would have if I hadn't read the books.

[dedewhale]

the pacing while seemed rushed compared to the books but seems to grab all the salient points. It covers 100 pages of the books in a matter of seconds.

Spoiler:

I felt the Danaaeris chapters in the books terribly slow and outright boring....I think the producers are pulling that crap out of the story as a whole

[Jag]

the pacing while seemed rushed compared to the books seems to grab all the salient points. It covers 100 pages of the books in a matter of seconds.

Spoiler:

I felt the Danaaeris chapters in the books terribly slow and outright boring....I think the producers are pulling that crap out of the story as a whole

Agreed. Do we really need spoilers? I think it should be obvious that you should not visit the thread if you haven't watched the latest episode. I actually forced my wife to stay up so I could talk about it today!

The episode was awesome. My minor niggle was the same as last season. The gratuitous sex scenes. Maybe the whore instruction scene was in the book, but it really didn't add anything. I'm a fan of porn and all, but they way they seem to add it just doesn't fit. I guess if Fifty Shades of Grey is mommy porn. Game of Thrones is geek porn?

[Zaxxon]

If we're talking about the scene with the guards going around killing people (mostly kids), my only real surprise was that they didn't make it clearer who those people were. Unless they did and I missed it. I got who they were, but I'm not sure I would have if I hadn't read the books.

I thought it was clear; the scene immediately preceding is essentially Joffrey going OMG DADDY HAD *BASTARDS!!!* Also, we saw everyone in that subsequent scene last season.

But then again my wife did ask me to confirm what was happening, so perhaps it's not as clear as a GoT geek like me thinks it is.

[Exodor]

If we're talking about the scene with the guards going around killing people (mostly kids), my only real surprise was that they didn't make it clearer who those people were. Unless they did and I missed it. I got who they were, but I'm not sure I would have if I hadn't read the books.

I thought it was clear; the scene immediately preceding is essentially Joffrey going OMG DADDY HAD *BASTARDS!!!* Also, we saw everyone in that subsequent scene last season.

I've never read the book and I knew they were killing the King's bastards - I remember a scene with Ned, the woman in the whorehouse and the baby from season 1.

I liked how they changed the intro to introduce Dragonstone but I didn't notice any changes in the music.

Can someone give a non-spoilery explanation of the poison-drinking Lady in Red? I get that Stannis is Robert's brother but is that his wife? An advisor?

[Zaxxon]

Can someone give a non-spoilery explanation of the poison-drinking Lady in Red? I get that Stannis is Robert's brother but is that his wife? An advisor?

An advisor would be the closest title I can think of. Her name is Melisandre, and she's a priestess of R'hllor, a god worshipped in the east. She's latched onto Stannis, hoping to spread her religion into Westeros through him.

[pr0ner]

If we're talking about the scene with the guards going around killing people (mostly kids), my only real surprise was that they didn't make it clearer who those people were. Unless they did and I missed it. I got who they were, but I'm not sure I would have if I hadn't read the books.

I thought it was clear; the scene immediately preceding is essentially Joffrey going OMG DADDY HAD *BASTARDS!!!* Also, we saw everyone in that subsequent scene last season.

But then again my wife did ask me to confirm what was happening, so perhaps it's not as clear as a GoT geek like me thinks it is.

Nah, it's perfectly clear. Joffrey ranting about bastards, pulling out the girl Ned Stark talked to in the brothel last season, looking for Gendry at the end. Unless the viewer's forgotten the puzzle Ned Stark put together last season, there shouldn't be any mystery.

I liked how they changed the intro to introduce Dragonstone but I didn't notice any changes in the music.

Listen for it next week - Djawadi expanded on the orchestration a bit and added some fuller sounding choir, so the theme sounds more epic.

[Anonymous Bosch]

Can someone give a non-spoilery explanation of the poison-drinking Lady in Red? I get that Stannis is Robert's brother but is that his wife? An advisor?

That's Melisandre. She's not Stannis's wife, but rather a priestess of an eastern religion that is little-known in Westeros, and she has ingratiated herself to become a close spiritual advisor of Stannis and his clan.

[MHS]

Listen for it next week - Djawadi expanded on the orchestration a bit and added some fuller sounding choir, so the theme sounds more epic.

And it was what the Imp was whistling when he came into the Small Council, yes? I wasn't 100% sure, but thought it was.

[dedewhale]

Watching Melisandre brought back something that irk'd me in the books and now appearing in the show. Not a spoiler really, but I will spoil it.

Spoiler:

Martin is genius when it comes to many of the different aspects in the books but I felt the installation of the supernatural (aka magic) often was really poor, random and misaligned. The supernatural around Mel was very off ..aka drinking the poison without effect and things later in the story

[pr0ner]

Listen for it next week - Djawadi expanded on the orchestration a bit and added some fuller sounding choir, so the theme sounds more epic.

And it was what the Imp was whistling when he came into the Small Council, yes? I wasn't 100% sure, but thought it was.

I must not have been paying any attention to what he was whistling, because I totally missed this! I'll have to record it again later this week and listen for myself.

[Carpet_pissr]

I'll say it again, I am shocked that people that have not read the books can have any idea what's going on. Things whip so fast from one thing to the next, and (heh, I
guess much like the books) if you don't have all the details of the previous episodes in your mind, you are likely not getting quite a few things. Not a complaint, more of a surprise that it has done so well with the non book crowd.

I think they are doing a stellar job with it, considering the amount of material they have to cover, but there are definitely scenes that to me feel overly rushed (poison scene for one, although that was a relatively minor scene/of minor importance in the book I guess).

I am grateful for the show if only to allow future me the ability to go back and get a video refresher (which I will definitely need) before and if the next book comes out. (how healthy is Martin BTW? Eat your veggies and get some exercise dammit...if you die on us before you finish, I will...well I will...speak ill of you!)

[Odin]

I am grateful for the show if only to allow future me the ability to go back and get a video refresher (which I will definitely need) before and if the next book comes out. (how healthy is Martin BTW? Eat your veggies and get some exercise dammit...if you die on us before you finish, I will...well I will...speak ill of you!)

Not sure about his overall health, but most irritating to me is that he hasn't even STARTED to work on the next book yet. It's not a surprise, either - when he finally published the last one, he outright said that it would be spring of 2012 before he got rolling on The Winds of Winter. I'm just sincerely hoping that the last two books have gotten him through the "knot" and past the period that he had originally planned to time-skip through, and that Winds of Winter can finally start to pick up some energy. I found both of the last two books (particularly A Feast for Crows) to be pretty disappointing as compared to the first three.

[Isgrimnur]

most irritating to me is that he hasn't even STARTED to work on the next book yet. It's not a surprise, either - when he finally published the last one, he outright said that it would be spring of 2012 before he got rolling on The Winds of Winter.

The what the hell was he reading in Toronto? (30:20)

Spoiler:

The latest novel still doesn't have a confirmed publication date, but the bestselling author recently told CTV news in Canada that he has written roughly 200 pages so far, and expects to finish it in "two or three years."

[pr0ner]

most irritating to me is that he hasn't even STARTED to work on the next book yet. It's not a surprise, either - when he finally published the last one, he outright said that it would be spring of 2012 before he got rolling on The Winds of Winter.

The what the hell was he reading in Toronto? (30:20)

Spoiler:

The latest novel still doesn't have a confirmed publication date, but the bestselling author recently told CTV news in Canada that he has written roughly 200 pages so far, and expects to finish it in "two or three years."

There's already a Theon chapter from THE WINDS OF WINTER on Martin's website, too.

[Zaxxon]

Yeah, he's started it. To clarify, he had started it back in 2011 and basically halted work until 2012 due to other commitments. But he's resumed.

Re: Tyrion's whistling. I just re-watched, and if it's the theme, I can't place it as such.

Re: moving so fast for folks who haven't read the books. I highly recommend HBO Go's 'watch with interactive features'. It places a sidebar to the right of the episode, and presents maps, house backgrounds, short summaries of who lesser characters are, video commentary, etc. For example, while I re-watched the council scene it popped up a summary of who Janos Slynt is.

[Odin]

most irritating to me is that he hasn't even STARTED to work on the next book yet. It's not a surprise, either - when he finally published the last one, he outright said that it would be spring of 2012 before he got rolling on The Winds of Winter.

The what the hell was he reading in Toronto? (30:20)

Spoiler:

The latest novel still doesn't have a confirmed publication date, but the bestselling author recently told CTV news in Canada that he has written roughly 200 pages so far, and expects to finish it in "two or three years."

Why's that spoilered?? Anyway, it was my understanding that he had a few hundred pages "left over" from stuff that ended up being cut out of ADwD, so that would account for what he's got "done" so far. If he's been actively working on it of late, then it's either been very little/very recent (particularly given his travel schedule and numerous other projects) or else he got moving on it sooner than he'd said he planned to. He was very clear last summer that he had no intention of resuming work before well into 2012. Beyond that, I find any predictions he might make about when he'll finish the thing to be somewhere between "highly dubious" and "laughable." I suppose time will tell.

[Zaxxon]

Man, these interactive features are awesome. I don't remember last season's being this impressive. Maybe I just have a poor memory. Other things it brings up in the first 11 minutes of this episode: An explanation from GRRM for the white raven shown in the council room scene along with why it's a big deal, a map of the Hollard household lands and of Torrhen's Square, a quick recap sidebar of where Jaime's at when Tyrion mentions him to Cersei, and an explanation as to why Tyrion was wearing armor in his grand entrance scene.

[Odin]

Man, these interactive features are awesome. I don't remember last season's being this impressive.

I tried using them once during a S1 episode, and they didn't impress me at all, to the point where I never tried them again. Maybe I'll give it another go for S2. I still have to fire up last night's episode again on the TiVo so I can pay more attention to the opening.

[Isgrimnur]

Why's that spoilered??

Because I felt like being cute.

[Carpet_pissr]

Man, these interactive features are awesome. I don't remember last season's being this impressive. Maybe I just have a poor memory. Other things it brings up in the first 11 minutes of this episode: An explanation from GRRM for the white raven shown in the council room scene along with why it's a big deal, a map of the Hollard household lands and of Torrhen's Square, a quick recap sidebar of where Jaime's at when Tyrion mentions him to Cersei, and an explanation as to why Tyrion was wearing armor in his grand entrance scene.

Hopefully that web site will be available via the waybackmachine or some-such in 2023 when the next book comes out.

[Odin]

The CGI dragons and direwolves didn't have a ton of screen time, but in all cases I thought they were well-done. Holy crap, large direwolves are intimidating.

To expand on this just a bit - at the end of Season 1, it was really cool to see the dragons onscreen. However, they had to do it in such a way that it looked as if Emilie Clarke was a mannequin - they had "frozen" her on the screen, and then CGI'd the dragons on over her. That was okay, but it clearly wasn't going to wash for the long term.

So it was extremely gratifying to see that they got it right in S2, ep1. There was Dany, walking along, talking and even feeding her dragon, and everybody was fully animated.

Makes me sympathize with George Lucas a bit, actually. I have to confess I wouldn't mind seeing them go back and re-do that final scene from S1, ep10 to make everything more lifelike.

[Vorret]

I'll say it again, I am shocked that people that have not read the books can have any idea what's going on. Things whip so fast from one thing to the next, and (heh, I
guess much like the books) if you don't have all the details of the previous episodes in your mind, you are likely not getting quite a few things. Not a complaint, more of a surprise that it has done so well with the non book crowd.

I think they are doing a stellar job with it, considering the amount of material they have to cover, but there are definitely scenes that to me feel overly rushed (poison scene for one, although that was a relatively minor scene/of minor importance in the book I guess).

I am grateful for the show if only to allow future me the ability to go back and get a video refresher (which I will definitely need) before and if the next book comes out. (how healthy is Martin BTW? Eat your veggies and get some exercise dammit...if you die on us before you finish, I will...well I will...speak ill of you!)

I'll be honest... most of the time I have no idea what's going on and I just try to put pieces together from the discussion here.

I mean, they introduce new characters (girl in red) without any background... we know they hate everyone but other than that we know nothing.

Bit later I think we know the other guy is the fire sword guy's son or something, they have ships and 100,000 man army.

Then the last scene that if you missed the bastards part you have no idea who they're killing.

I understand there's alot of ground to cover but coming from someone who knew nothing about the universe.... it CAN and it IS confusing.

Back to the 100k man army and 200 ships, why didn't we hear about this before? Who are they? I mean 100k army is alot of menpower are there any other nations like these that will suddently pop up with giant army?

What about the girl and her 1 dragon? Where is she going? They have a party of 30 people and a newborn dragon; is she gonna go into hiding until season 6-7 where the dragon is actually big enough to be a threat?

[Carpet_pissr]

I was about to answer your questions in spoilers, but then I thought, if someone who has not read the books is interested enough in the content to continue and watch season 2 and beyond, my best advice would be to stop watching immediately (so as not to ruin surprises), and read the books. Seriously. At least the first one (which is a trick, because I guaran-damn-tee you that you won't be able to stop after one).

Again, not to take anything away from the show, as I think it's spectacular, it's just that you are missing SO much development that is simply not able to be included in the show. Hell, even the BOOKS are confusing due to the intricacies of the plot and the subterfuges going on, not to even mention the number of character and place names to keep up with. I read them straight through, and still had to use the web site guide to the books, to help me remember who is who and what is where.

[Odin]

No spoilers below - I'm going to stick to stuff that's actually been in the series, but might be confusing or just easily missed.

Back to the 100k man army and 200 ships, why didn't we hear about this before? Who are they? I mean 100k army is alot of menpower are there any other nations like these that will suddently pop up with giant army?

We've actually met this fellow before. Robb and Catelyn Stark name him at the end of the episode - Lord/King Renly Baratheon. We saw him getting a BJ from Ser Loras Tyrell in season 1. He's the brother of the deceased king Robert Baratheon, and also the brother of the "new guy" we saw holding his council on Dragonstone - Lord/King Stannis Baratheon.

What about the girl and her 1 dragon? Where is she going? They have a party of 30 people and a newborn dragon; is she gonna go into hiding until season 6-7 where the dragon is actually big enough to be a threat?

There are actually three dragons. We saw them all in the season finale. Presumably to keep costs down, they're only showing one at a time (we're to gather that the other two were in the cage). As to where she's going, she clearly doesn't know. But she must go generally east, because if she tried to stay in the lands of the Dothraki (which are west of where she is now), they would surely kill or enslave her remaining people, and take her dragons from her. She's an outcast from the Dothraki - the only thing they respect is strength and manhood, and without Khal Drogo she's nothing in their eyes. So she had to venture east, into the "red wastes" - a barren, uninhabited land with little or nothing to sustain her small band (hence the death of her beloved horse, Silver). Even the worldly Jorah Mormont doesn't know how far the Red Wastes stretch, so she's sent out her bloodriders to scout and find them some refuge.

As was said above, I literally can't imagine watching this series without having read the books, because I've read and re-read them multiple times and know them fairly well. I will say that this is definitely not a show you can just passively watch. It clearly requires some fairly diligent thought and analysis if you're going to put the pieces together. I think it's refreshing that the show doesn't literally beat you over the head with every single message, but it also means that sometimes it'll be hard to figure out what's going on.

[pr0ner]

I'll be honest... most of the time I have no idea what's going on and I just try to put pieces together from the discussion here.

I mean, they introduce new characters (girl in red) without any background... we know they hate everyone but other than that we know nothing.

Bit later I think we know the other guy is the fire sword guy's son or something, they have ships and 100,000 man army.

Then the last scene that if you missed the bastards part you have no idea who they're killing.

I understand there's alot of ground to cover but coming from someone who knew nothing about the universe.... it CAN and it IS confusing.

Back to the 100k man army and 200 ships, why didn't we hear about this before? Who are they? I mean 100k army is alot of menpower are there any other nations like these that will suddently pop up with giant army?

What about the girl and her 1 dragon? Where is she going? They have a party of 30 people and a newborn dragon; is she gonna go into hiding until season 6-7 where the dragon is actually big enough to be a threat?

1) They explained who the Melisandre is. She'll be explained more as the season goes along, of course.

2) Which other guy are you talking about? Renly? He was in season 1. Renly is the younger brother of Stannis.

3) Don't you remember in season 1 when Ned talked to the girl in the brothel when he was trying to piece together what Jon Arryn was doing before he died? That was the girl who was yanked out by the gold cloaks.

4) You didn't hear about the 100k army and the 200 ships because a) the army was built between seasons 1 and 2, and b) because no one's really talked about the Greyjoys until now.

5) The girl and her 1 dragon? Daenerys has 3 dragons; I'm sure only showing one on Sunday was a money saving matter. You'll find out where they're going as the season goes along, of course.

You know, really, most of your concerns would be answered if you paid more attention. Hell, most of your questions would be answered if you remembered anything from season 1!

[coopasonic]

I've read all the books and most of the time I can't figure out what's happening in the show either, so don't feel bad Vorret. I need to rewatch season 1 and reread the books, but there's just no time for it.

[Carpet_pissr]

You know, really, most of your concerns would be answered if you paid more attention. Hell, most of your questions would be answered if you remembered anything from season 1!

Trying to decide if you are serious or not? If you are...dude. The shows are CHOCK freaking full of fast scenes that might cover 300 pages or more in 20-40 seconds! I think it's completely understandable that someone that never read the books has questions, especially since we you are talking primarily about small details that showed up in a previous season.

If someone had just watched the first season, back to back, maybe you could have a point, but come on, it's not easy to follow.

[dedewhale]

I only read the books after I watched season 1 and enjoyed the experience. It is not impossible to follow with some help. I recommend going to HBO's website and use their tools and information. It is quite good on answering geography and character questions without spoilers because it is made as a companion for the show.

Lots to explore but here is a start:

http://viewers-guide.hbo.com/game-of-th ... f-control/

[pr0ner]

You know, really, most of your concerns would be answered if you paid more attention. Hell, most of your questions would be answered if you remembered anything from season 1!

Trying to decide if you are serious or not? If you are...dude. The shows are CHOCK freaking full of fast scenes that might cover 300 pages or more in 20-40 seconds! I think it's completely understandable that someone that never read the books has questions, especially since we you are talking primarily about small details that showed up in a previous season.

If someone had just watched the first season, back to back, maybe you could have a point, but come on, it's not easy to follow.

I'm serious. Some of Vorret's concerns stem from rather significant characters and events in season 1 and don't require having read the books to understand.

[Zaxxon]

As others have mentioned, all of your questions have been addressed in the show. It does move incredibly quickly and as Sith said, it's not one for passive watching. I'm also in the boat of 'can't imagine watching without having read the books', but that's mainly because I think knowing the fuller picture helps make the show connect better than it can to someone who has no background with the story.

That said, I'll recommend the HBO Go interactive viewing again, as well as the other background info that they have on their site. I think these things are a *huge* boon to people new to the story. Esp the interactive viewing stuff--it tends to answer the types of questions you're asking at the time you'd think to ask them.
EG:

'Who the f$@% is this dude?' Sidebar appears: Renly Baratheon, the youngest sibling of King Robert Baratheon, yadda yadda...

'Who's this red woman?' Sidebar appears: Melidandre of Asshai is a priestess of the god R'hllor...

'What and where are the Red Wastes?' Map appears...

Etc, etc etc.

[coopasonic]

You know, really, most of your concerns would be answered if you paid more attention. Hell, most of your questions would be answered if you remembered anything from season 1!

Trying to decide if you are serious or not? If you are...dude. The shows are CHOCK freaking full of fast scenes that might cover 300 pages or more in 20-40 seconds! I think it's completely understandable that someone that never read the books has questions, especially since we you are talking primarily about small details that showed up in a previous season.

If someone had just watched the first season, back to back, maybe you could have a point, but come on, it's not easy to follow.

I'm serious. Some of Vorret's concerns stem from rather significant characters and events in season 1 and don't require having read the books to understand.

It does on the other hand require better recollection than at least I have or a recent viewing of the episodes.

[Zaxxon]

Ratings info is in.

Initial airing of ep 1 pulled in almost 3.9 million viewers. That's nearly 1 million more than the season 1 finale (3 million) and almost double the season 1 premiere (a bit over 2 million). Repeat showing ratings are strong, as well.

Especially when combined with the very strong DVD/Blu-Ray sales, I would expect we'll get a Season 3 green light here shortly.

[Carpet_pissr]

Ratings info is in.

Initial airing of ep 1 pulled in almost 3.9 million viewers. That's nearly 1 million more than the season 1 finale (3 million) and almost double the season 1 premiere (a bit over 2 million). Repeat showing ratings are strong, as well.

Especially when combined with the very strong DVD/Blu-Ray sales, I would expect we'll get a Season 3 green light here shortly.

I wonder how those numbers stack up to other HBO shows, i.e. how successful is it really, relatively?

[hepcat]

You know, really, most of your concerns would be answered if you paid more attention. Hell, most of your questions would be answered if you remembered anything from season 1!

Trying to decide if you are serious or not? If you are...dude. The shows are CHOCK freaking full of fast scenes that might cover 300 pages or more in 20-40 seconds! I think it's completely understandable that someone that never read the books has questions, especially since we you are talking primarily about small details that showed up in a previous season.

If someone had just watched the first season, back to back, maybe you could have a point, but come on, it's not easy to follow.

I'm serious. Some of Vorret's concerns stem from rather significant characters and events in season 1 and don't require having read the books to understand.

Still, you could exercise a bit less snark...or just ignore his questions entirely instead of slamming him.

I still am not sure who the chick in red is, to be honest. But I'll visit the site that Zaxxon mentioned and find out. That was a helpful suggestion.

[Zaxxon]

Ratings info is in.

Initial airing of ep 1 pulled in almost 3.9 million viewers. That's nearly 1 million more than the season 1 finale (3 million) and almost double the season 1 premiere (a bit over 2 million). Repeat showing ratings are strong, as well.

Especially when combined with the very strong DVD/Blu-Ray sales, I would expect we'll get a Season 3 green light here shortly.

I wonder how those numbers stack up to other HBO shows, i.e. how successful is it really, relatively?

Here's a graph of initial seasons:

[Odin]

I still am not sure who the chick in red is, to be honest. But I'll visit the site that Zaxxon mentioned and find out. That was a helpful suggestion.

Use care. The site is dark, and full of terrors.

[Carpet_pissr]

I still am not sure who the chick in red is, to be honest. But I'll visit the site that Zaxxon mentioned and find out. That was a helpful suggestion.

Use care. The site is dark, and full of errors.

FTFY

[Vorret]

Thanks I'll take a look at the website !

And yeah I try to remember as much as possible but there's ALOT of stuff going on, I'm watching it with my GF who has an awesome memory and she also has some problem remembering important passages that happened last season.

[Toe]

My favorite moments of this first episode:

- Grey Wind (Rob Stark's wolf) was very well done. Jaimie Lannister's reaction was great.
- Tyrion the Imp arriving in King's Landing and "getting to work"
- Tyrion talking to his sister, Cersei.
- Cersei "dealing with" Joffrey
- Littlefinger and Cersei's interaction

I really did not care for the open sequence where they introduce Stannis/Davos/fire lady. Seemed rushed. Same with the dinner/poison scene. Did not come across very well for me. Stannis is not "military" enough from the character I had in my brain and the fire lady not charismatic on screen as I thought she would be.

Also felt a bit bored with the Tyrion/Shay scene. I love Tyrion for the most part so there is that, but I am really not liking the actress that plays Shay. We shouldn't see a whole lot more of her though.

Why can't they have some text across the screen when they are at a new location?? Like "Dragonstone. Seat of Stannis Barathoreon" or something like that? That would help a little.

While I really enjoyed the first episode, I am a bit worried that as more and more characters are introduced we could end up with a mess. We shall see.