OOWW: JLA ... GAME OVER!

[triggercut]

I think I'm gonna spill it on who tru1cy is.

There are more valuable targets out there now than him.

[Remus West]

That one shot, from the El Guapo and Unagi, should be a happy little thing called death-to-Grund.

With all your careful reading did you miss the part where MY shot would identify Grundbegriff as Two-Face while the Hawks would merely kill Two-Face and show him to be "good"? MY shot is the one that can provide unquestionable proof between Grundbegriff's claim and bb2112's.

[Lagom Lite]

IT'S THE FUN SUPER HAPPY HIRO MASS OUTING!!!

[b]I am The Elongated Man.

So. Like. Not sure why you are holding onto this tidbit: Were you or were you not Attacked on Sunday night?

Nope - and no, purge, I never claimed to have self-protected on night 0 - why wouldn't I simply say I was EM on Day 1 and be done with it? I wanted the baddies to think I was WW or Flash, and attack me in the night.

Which means Night 0 they attacked Atom, or The Flash's target, or Wonder Woman's target, or they used a conversion. Using up a conversion on Night 0 still seems unlikely to me, since something like that isn't to use blindly.

Remus - I agree you pretty much have to shoot trig, and then we lynch theohall.

I used the CTRL-F for his sig "Joy is but the shadow pain casts" to find his posts.

[Lagom Lite]

Hey, two Shooters! So, someone shoot that alien guy and someone else shoot Bats!

[purge]

You're all dense. Read my last 5 posts.

[triggercut]

Aaaaand with there being so many other high-priority targets out there, I'll go ahead and out tru1cy.

He's The Atom.

tru1cy: DO NOT CONFIRM THIS, AS IT GIVES AWAY YOUR TOKEN. IF THEY WANT TO KILL YOU, LET'S BE SURE THEY'VE SCANNED YOU AND/OR FORCE THEM TO SCAN YOU TONIGHT IF THEY WANT YOU. (I think there's a reasonable chance they did, but if they didn't, let's force them to burn that scan)

1. "Gosh Trig, why'd you say that tru1cy was a powered hero yesterday?"

It wasn't a spur of the moment play at all. At the time, the only revealed hero in the game with some proof behind him was myself. Theo had come forward as Bats, and while I gave that claim some conditional trust, I figured we'd eventually hear how many powered heroes were in the game and could count them back. I also realized that the best play for Team Hero was to shoot me, and didn't want to die with the knowledge of tru1cy being in the number of powered heroes.

Finally, though, the main reason I sort of "outed" him was that I saw the role of Atom as having a dual possibility: he could be used to force Team Evil to waste a scan. I oversold the possibility that tru1cy was scanned the same night Qantaga died for purposes of hiding my motive (and trying to make tru1cy's role seem like a more juicy "get" for them than just Atom); that said, while I did think it was possible they'd already scanned him, I figured there was a decent chance they hadn't. If they didn't, I wanted to try to force them to scan him by overselling his poweredness a bit, thus steering their scan(s?) away from better targets. Atom's role in the hands of a teammate who knows it serves that dual role, allowing me to dangle him as scan fodder to keep them from scanning our shooters/protectors/scanners who are of higher value to Team Hero.

2. "So why out him now?"

I'm out of the game soon, but tru1cy needs lynch protection by confirmation of who he is (and my death by shooting should put him squarely in the "trusted" list). I had worried that if he were killed that perhaps Parasite might take his role and become immune from being shot for a day, but I think both our shooters will expend their power today so that's moot. Secondly, with Wonder Woman out there, they've got a much better target to shoot at. Finally, if they want him and haven't already scanned him, to take him they still have to "discover" the Atom conclusively for themselves (take his token, in other words). That's one less scan they either used last night or that they'd be using tonight that didn't get used to find Flash or some other undisclosed hero at this point, so he still fulfills a role as scan fodder for them.

[triggercut]

Hey, two Shooters! So, someone shoot that alien guy and someone else shoot Bats!

You need to catch up.

Are we sure you're not converted? My goodness.

[triggercut]

That one shot, from the El Guapo and Unagi, should be a happy little thing called death-to-Grund.

With all your careful reading did you miss the part where MY shot would identify Grundbegriff as Two-Face while the Hawks would merely kill Two-Face and show him to be "good"? MY shot is the one that can provide unquestionable proof between Grundbegriff's claim and bb2112's.

Doesn't your shot just reveal that Grund was a powered role, but not anything else?

Is faction revealed on death?

[purge]

That one shot, from the El Guapo and Unagi, should be a happy little thing called death-to-Grund.

With all your careful reading did you miss the part where MY shot would identify Grundbegriff as Two-Face while the Hawks would merely kill Two-Face and show him to be "good"? MY shot is the one that can provide unquestionable proof between Grundbegriff's claim and bb2112's.

Doesn't your shot just reveal that Grund was a powered role, but not anything else?

Is faction revealed on death?

His point, you jackass, was that if grund shows up normal and DOESN'T die, that clearly he's two-face since he's neither Fate (who would of died), Harley (who becomes "powered" regardless of a human conversion and would have died) or anyone else.

If I sound gruff, it's because you just cleared up any obvious space for me to hide tonight, and my powers are KEY to winning by outing Tru1cy (without his permission I might add).

So, fuck you, superman.



Let's just hope that BB really is WW, cuz I'm gonna need someone to watch my back tonight.

[triggercut]

List of folks I trust:

1. Triggercut
2. tru1cy
3. bb2112
4. Remus
5. Unagi
6. El Guapo

Folks I'm 99.99% sure are evil:

1. theohall
2. Grundbegriff

Vote trains that matter:

EVIL GUY AS OBJECT OF TRAIN:
7 Grund - Remus West, Austin, tru1cy, El Guapo, purge, coopasonic, bb2112

7 theohall - bb2112, Austin, Lassr, Unagi, RMC, purge, Mr Bubbles

As a result of the first train Grund had to do his "Yeah, we don't want to do that. I'm not kidding" speech.

As a result of the second, theohall had to "reveal" as Batman, bringing down the whole house of cards.

As a result, I would highly doubt the presence of badguys on theo's train. The sloppy nature of his "reveal" as Batman, with the incomplete information especially, makes it seem like something he felt backed into a corner on.

I would find "more than likely" doubt of the presence of badguys on Grund's train. His "I'm special" stuff might have been a planned reveal, and it could've been a play, but I doubt it.

Following from that:

Austin, Lassr, purge, and Mr Bubbles end up in the "seem like goodguys camp" to me.

More on the way.

[purge]

There's a comma missing in the statement above. I'm not reposting it.

I've hinted at re-lynching superman, dropped hints (ringing true), and even a mrgreen last page. I've harped on having GL come out for a good reason. Now I'm out, and we need to kill us some villains. I can disable 3 times. If I disable grund, the hawks can take a shot AND KILL TWO-FACE. If they're lying, then that's one thing.

I could also disable supes, but I was hoping to survive till tomorrow- night-time would have been a nice time to maybe let the villains sort their matters out and have done some proving of their own.

I don't recommend any other supers come out at this point, assuming there is one or two others.

I don't trust Unagi until he shoots, I don't trust green arrow till he shoots.

So there you have it. If nothing else, I can make sure superman dies at a lynch. If I'm protected, I can do so tomorrow (which means if they convert, it likely won't be him knowing I'm alive and protected).

If Atom didn't self-protect successfully, and neither did EM, then where does that leave us? BB did, conversion already happened, or BB/WW protected unknowingly.

[theohall]

Given the number of Heroes and the fact there are two shooters - no one is "key" anymore. The truth will come out in the shots and lynches - whether or not your Lantern tells us anything important about tru1cy. The shots will prove enough folks, the villains are going to have a very hard time hiding.

[triggercut]

And there's 7!

[bb2112]

You can't be serious.

Maybe all the bad guys are claiming roles now too?

[theohall]

You can't be serious.

Maybe all the bad guys are claiming roles now too?

Is that what your evil compatriots are doing? Claiming roles to create more confusion and protect your from being lynched/shot?

[Unagi]

For the record...

I actually believe purge. His posts and analysis has been centered around thwarting people and his interest in how the shots are used makes sense with a Green Lantern player.

just my 2 cents.

[triggercut]

You can't be serious.

Maybe all the bad guys are claiming roles now too?

Why do you think purge is lying? His membership on Team Goodguy seems pretty obvious to me.

[El Guapo]

If I disable grund, the hawks can take a shot AND KILL TWO-FACE. If they're lying, then that's one thing.

But the issue isn't killing Grund. The issue is that if he's Two-Face and us Hawks shoot him, that he'll die and come back good. If we don't have a genuine Batman, then we wouldn't have any way to distinguish whether he was Dr. Fate or whether he was Two-Face.

Apologies if I've missed this, but if Green Lantern hits Two-Face, and Two-Face is then killed (assuming no Batman), would he come back villain, or does GL turn off his good face?

[Unagi]

Hey,

Theohall - humor me, please.

Who do you think the 6 legit Heroes are?

There are only 6, right ?

So, which are the 6, if you just had to make a guess.

[purge]

Given the number of Heroes and the fact there are two shooters - no one is "key" anymore. The truth will come out in the shots and lynches - whether or not your Lantern tells us anything important about tru1cy. The shots will prove enough folks, the villains are going to have a very hard time hiding.

Nobody has proven anything ... yet.

Besides, who can stop the bomb, the croc kill, the hiding of twoface, etc?

Yep.

I suppose killing "batman" instead of "Dr. Fate" has merit. It proves either riddler or batman, and then we have at least one scanner going into tonight. One who can protect, or another who can give a result regardless of death.

All batman can do is tell us if someone was converted, and the villain/hero count.

Which, with Unagi / El Guapo, is pretty much an impossibility.

Superman (trig)
Atom (tru1cy)
EM (lagom)
Green Lantern (Purge)
Green Arrow (Remus West)
HawkMan (Unagi)
Hawkwoman (El Guapo)
Batman (theohall)
Dr. Fate (Grund)
WonderWoman (BB2112)

That's 10, folks.

Fuck, I wonder if the X-Men are hanging around in a cross-company supercrossover? No? How about the goddamned Turtles?

[triggercut]

My take:

Grundbegriff might very well be Dr. Fate...but now he's prancing around in a Harley Quinn costume.

1. Someone else on the team is the Joker, and used the convert on him.

2. theohall is the Riddler. Grund already expressed that he must be a very frustrating Scanner for Team Evil to have.

3. Grund, in lieu of sending power words out, has been using his scan ability instead at night, because Team Evil has no Lex Luthor.

4. There's a fourth member of Team Evil. Guessing that role is either ClayFace or Two Face or Parasite.

I strongly believe that:

Elongated Man is Not who he seems.

Lagom Lite is lying.

[Unagi]

I don't trust Unagi until he shoots, I don't trust green arrow till he shoots.

Not that I expect you to trust me before the shot but:

Just what action of trust will be required of you before a shot would be made?

and

Have you EVER played a game where a person claims shooter - and then asks for on going trust after he never makes a shot?

[bb2112]

You can't be serious.

Maybe all the bad guys are claiming roles now too?

Why do you think purge is lying? His membership on Team Goodguy seems pretty obvious to me.

Well, that makes one of us. But he claimed a role that can be proved. Or does it. Checking...

Green Lantern - Green Lantern may use his Ring, either during the Day or the Night. He chooses a Target and that Players Abilities are negated during that phase. Green Lantern may only use his Ring three times. Use of the Ring does Not Reveal Green Lantern.

Well, I guess it could be proven. He would have to use his power on someone like Superman, and then we would have to lynch. Not sure if that is a good idea.

He could use it on one of the shooters, but then they wouldn't be able to shoot. Don't like that idea either.

Anyone else got any ideas on how to prove GL?

[triggercut]

Hey,

Theohall - humor me, please.

Who do you think the 6 legit Heroes are?

There are only 6, right ?

So, which are the 6, if you just had to make a guess.

[triggercut]

Anyone else got any ideas on how to prove GL?

Wait a turn and let things play out.

[theohall]

Hey,

Theohall - humor me, please.

Who do you think the 6 legit Heroes are?

There are only 6, right ?

So, which are the 6, if you just had to make a guess.

I have no idea. All I get is numbers and the ability to scan dead people. There is a sum total of one dead person.

Whom do I absolutely not believe? bb2112.

I believe triggercut, tru1cy, myself, and Grund. When the shots happen - then I will believe the shooters, but not until then. I find it extremely odd this would work out to have 3 scanners (WW, Supes, Dr Fate), a Coroner (Batman) 2 shooters (Green Arrow and the Hawks), plus the Green Lantern in the Hall of Justice. Balancing that would need to have what - 7 evils in the game? That would account for 15 of the 17 to start with the only two normals. So everyone is lying from what I can tell.

For this reason - I trust the numbers CR provided and not all these claims popping up everywhere.

[purge]

If I disable grund, the hawks can take a shot AND KILL TWO-FACE. If they're lying, then that's one thing.

But the issue isn't killing Grund. The issue is that if he's Two-Face and us Hawks shoot him, that he'll die and come back good. If we don't have a genuine Batman, then we wouldn't have any way to distinguish whether he was Dr. Fate or whether he was Two-Face.

Apologies if I've missed this, but if Green Lantern hits Two-Face, and Two-Face is then killed (assuming no Batman), would he come back villain, or does GL turn off his good face?

Per the end of the very first post:

What happens when the Green Lantern chooses me?
Superman - if Day: a Lynch will be Successful, and his identity will not be revealed.
Wonder Woman - if Night: Compulsion will be Null. No Scan, No Protection, and that Player will be considered to have been "previously chosen".
Batman - if Night: No Count given.
Green Arrow - if Day: Arrow use ineligible that Day.
Martian Manhunter - if Night: if Contact already made, must cease. Broken connection will not result in Paired Death.
Wonder Twins - must Cease PM Contact. Other twin will still be allowed to send One Way Messages, but affected Twin may not respond by PM.
Elongated Man - Ralph will die during a Villain Attack
Doctor Fate - receive no result of his scan. Use of the Ring will NOT stop him from using his PM ability (or MINDBURST)
The Flash - may not protect, target is not considered consecutive for next night protection
Captain Marvel - reveal will fail
Hawkman or Hawkwoman - if Day, attack will FAIL.
Atom - if Night, can be killed at Night

Lex Luthor - if Night: Scan will be Blocked. Will not learn identity of Player the Villains kill at Night.
Riddler - No info on Hero killed. If Day: no further answers
Two-Face - will scan as normal during that phase
Killer Croc - will not trigger the kill
Joker - May not use Bomb if Day, May not Convert if Night.
Harley Quinn - loses use of Powers as above.
Clayface - will scan as Clayface
Parasite - loss of Drained Power

Green Lantern - Green Lantern may use his Ring, either during the Day or the Night. He chooses a Target and that Players Abilities are negated during that phase. Green Lantern may only use his Ring three times. Use of the Ring does Not Reveal Green Lantern.

My understanding of "normal" isn't that he will be "normal, unpowered" but that his power is disabled - as that is my power.

CR, please clarify - if Green Lantern uses his ring on Two-Face during the day, will a lynch /shot reveal normal, or villain?

[triggercut]

DO NOT TRUST LAGOM LITE.

Not kidding there.

Here's his first post after the bb2112 reveal:

Wow. I show up to a five-page-longer thread, reads it, about to withdraw my Grund vote, reads more, about to put it back, then away again.

It's very unlikely that there are no bad guys among so many claimed specials.

Just to pile it on (there are so many targets anyway that my ruse is futile):

I am The Elongated Man.

I think it's unlikely that we have all these scanners (Batman + Superman + Wonder Woman + Dr Fate), although if the role distribution is completely random I guess it's possible. We know trig is supes, that leaves Grund and bb2112.

bb2112 claims theohall is The Riddler. But theohall says he's Batman (though uncontested).

How useful is Batman? It seems we should test theohall. That could verify bb2112.

How trustworthy is Dr Fate's "provability"? If Grund can prove himself, that would put the damper on bb2112's Wonder Woman claim.

 withdraw Grundbegriff 
 


Maybe we should lynch someone else entirely and let night activity sort it out.

What the hell? I mean, re-read that last line: "Maybe we should lynch someone else entirely and let night activity sort it out."

Translation: "Please don't kill my teammates right just yet?"

[triggercut]

Anyone else got any ideas on how to prove GL?

Wait a turn and let things play out.

BTW, this means: "Proceed as planned with me getting killed, Grund getting shot, and theo getting lynched." Then worry about purge's provability tomorrow.

[Unagi]

I believe triggercut, tru1cy, myself, and Grund.

When the shots happen - then I will believe the shooters, but not until then.

You will find that adds up to 7.

Not 6

You should be thrilled right now.

From your perspective - you know there are 6 heroes.

You have yourself and Triggercut (thats 2), and you have 3 shooters about to be proven Heroes. (since you wouldn't know if Triggercut is converted, I wont hold you to the Tru1cy claim that he has made)

That leaves you with 1 person telling the truth out of:
Tru1cy, Lagom Lite, Grund, and purge

[triggercut]

I believe triggercut, tru1cy, myself, and Grund.

When the shots happen - then I will believe the shooters, but not until then.

You will find that adds up to 7.

Not 6

You should be thrilled right now.

From your perspective - you know there are 6 heroes.

You have yourself and Triggercut (thats 2), and you have 3 shooters about to be proven Heroes. (since you wouldn't know if Triggercut is converted, I wont hold you to the Tru1cy claim that he has made)

That leaves you with 1 person telling the truth out of:
Tru1cy, Lagom Lite, Grund, and purge

Boom and roasted.

That pretty much puts paid to any lingering doubts regarding Grund and Batman from where I sit.

[Qantaga]

[bb2112]

I believe triggercut, tru1cy, myself, and Grund.

When the shots happen - then I will believe the shooters, but not until then.

You will find that adds up to 7.

Not 6

You should be thrilled right now.

From your perspective - you know there are 6 heroes.

You have yourself and Triggercut (thats 2), and you have 3 shooters about to be proven Heroes. (since you wouldn't know if Triggercut is converted, I wont hold you to the Tru1cy claim that he has made)

That leaves you with 1 person telling the truth out of:
Tru1cy, Lagom Lite, Grund, and purge

Boom and roasted.

That pretty much puts paid to any lingering doubts regarding Grund and Batman from where I sit.

Nice one Unagi and Trig.

[purge]

I don't trust Unagi until he shoots, I don't trust green arrow till he shoots.

Not that I expect you to trust me before the shot but:

Just what action of trust will be required of you before a shot would be made?

and

Have you EVER played a game where a person claims shooter - and then asks for on going trust after he never makes a shot?

No ... I suppose random.org meant that El Guapo got an upgrade AFTER the game started.

As to my ability: I just need to send in a message to disable someone.

I can do it multiple times in the same phase, so were you to want to shoot Theohall, then give me fair warning and I *could* disable him, then you would shoot. I don't think that's the best use of my power though, as the only risk is joker (you're not vulnerable to croc).

Theo would die, and it would reveal if he were good or bad. This is the crux of who to trust.

Then Green Arrow can shoot the other "scanned" target of either Grund or BB to prove them (austin/lassr). I would suggest I disable them, as they are more likely to be fatal (eg: joker, croc). If they are human, then they are both proven and protected tonight.

Then we lynch the lying bastard. I would suggest I use my power for that one as well.

Tru1cy, since you have been "proven" by a scanner and announced (the self-out thing doesn't matter, superman is a scanner and what he thought he was doing is likely wrong - it means you lost your night-time protection when he decided to share your secret) Did you manage to self-protect on night 0?

[Unagi]

Boom and roasted.

That pretty much puts paid to any lingering doubts regarding Grund and Batman from where I sit.

pretty much what I came back here to post.

I have No Doubt that Grund and Theohall are villains at this point.

I can't see how anyone would doubt that.

[purge]

As to proving myself, I offer my services to disable supes for a lynch today, but only if both shooting pair go along with the plan. I may die tonight, and since we are now all "out" there is no hidden power that can save us from Superharley.

I don't feel like disabling a shooter - my proof is obvious regardless. If superman dies in a lynch after I've confirmed that I've used my ring, then you know I am real. If he does not, you should kill me the next chance you get.

[purge]

Boom and roasted.

That pretty much puts paid to any lingering doubts regarding Grund and Batman from where I sit.

pretty much what I came back here to post.

I have No Doubt that Grund and Theohall are villains at this point.

I can't see how anyone would doubt that.

Well, following your idea that Supes is already Harley, the only stretch that I could see being made is that Remus isn't a shooter, but since I'm Green Lantern, that is why I wasn't sure about you two.

Once again, a shot from you proves Batman is a fake (to me).

Lagom? I'm still on the fence. He might have just been driving at us to kill someone they had missed at converting and wasting some hero power to do so, which gives me pause in wanting to see that loudmouth executed.

[bb2112]

As to proving myself, I offer my services to disable supes for a lynch today, but only if both shooting pair go along with the plan. I may die tonight, and since we are now all "out" there is no hidden power that can save us from Superharley.

I don't feel like disabling a shooter - my proof is obvious regardless. If superman dies in a lynch after I've confirmed that I've used my ring, then you know I am real. If he does not, you should kill me the next chance you get.

The only problem with that plan is if Superman doesn't get lynched and we have already used both shooters. That leaves Superman open for the conversion. Good guys lose, game over.

[El Guapo]

As to proving myself, I offer my services to disable supes for a lynch today, but only if both shooting pair go along with the plan. I may die tonight, and since we are now all "out" there is no hidden power that can save us from Superharley.

I don't feel like disabling a shooter - my proof is obvious regardless. If superman dies in a lynch after I've confirmed that I've used my ring, then you know I am real. If he does not, you should kill me the next chance you get.

The only problem with that plan is if Superman doesn't get lynched and we have already used both shooters. That leaves Superman open for the conversion. Good guys lose, game over.

Apologies if I've missed this, but have you already protected Superman? If not, one way to address this concern would be to have you protect Superman tonight. Though even then (if purge is lying and is not Green Lantern), unless we bag Joker today or tomorrow we'd then lose tomorrow night.

[purge]

If I'm lying, then I'd have to be evil. I'm suggesting we shoot two potential villains. Yeah, I might be lying, but I'm looking out for the team. Wasting a shot on superman means I cannot prove the one thing I can do that no one else can.

You want us to trust you, well - I came out after I lost my last place of hiding from the baddies. Look at the post before supes outted Atom. I said (e.g. Tru1cy) to throw trail off me.

I boiled down the groups for a reason, and I even pointed out how Unagi (in my group of four) was the most likely to be special since I wanted to make sure I wasn't painting a target on my own chest.

Go ahead and re-read 40-odd pages and you'll notice I never stray from my position.

Supes will die if we will it. If you're WW, and I have any charges left, I would like your protection. The shooters do not need it, neither will Austin/Lassr who will be proven by Green Arrow, and I think Supes should die today to be safe. His powers are used up (scan, self-protect/proof).

The only thing about my plan is that we're not going for maximum kills - We will have both Grund and BB survive today into the night. I suppose GA could opt instead to shoot the villains, but with so many deceptive people, it becomes 1 in the hand, 2 in the bush.