OOWW: JLA ... GAME OVER!

[purge]

Purge

Please read this.

We don't really need to 'prove' you. As its been said, any could be a converted player, and still retain their power.

You Harping on the prove angle just doesn't matter, nor help your side (IMO, you are most certainly GL and also most likely unconverted)

What we would be doing, IMO, is maximizing our Shots At Bad Guys , by letting a shot be used to learn things, etc.

To you, yes.

To BB and Remus? :shrug:

I will wait idly by and let you all figure out who you want shot, and if you want them disabled first.

I recommend any that are at risk of being Two-Face, Croc or Joker (for lynch).

[Unagi]

So, have we finalized a plan yet?

CR is back in 2 1/2 hours.

You really think this group is going to come together on something?

Man, ever since Team Evil hit shit street, you've been ALIVE.

[coopasonic]

Things got interesting.

[triggercut]

You guys figure out the plan. My head hurts. Someone hit me with a mace.

If I were going to the windows to bet:

1. Grund is Harley Quinn, but was once Dr. Fate. Converted Night One.
2. theohall is The Riddler
3. Austin is Two Face
4. Isgrimnur is the Joker.

I just re-read the entire thread. The one thing I never understood was why the Badguys made the play they did. Now I think I see what happened. What they planned:

They know that theohall is close to being hung, and weariness with the length of Day 2 plays a major factor. Because of his conversion, and because of the nature of Two Face's passive ability, they see a path to victory that only exists if Batman is not an active role in the game. theohall is chosen to fly that trial balloon and to see if anyone counterclaims him. If they do, then a real Bats would step forward, mention that there's been a conversion, and totally refute theohall's hero count (which he didn't give for fear of being totally outed from the getgo.) No Batman stepped forward to counterclaim. Grundbegriff rolled the dice then, and came out as Dr. Fate, his actual beginning role. He backed up theohall's claim of Batman, and threw his seal of Goodness on Austin, knowing that there wouldn't be a Batman around to detect Two Face.

Even more beautiful: the villains likely believed that there was a good possibility of Dr. Fate as the only scanning player on Team Goodguy. theo as Riddler may have asked the question of Lagom Lite: "Is Lagom Lite Wonder Woman?" and gotten a negatory as an answer. Also possible: Grund's Night One scan was Lagom, and Grund knew Lagom was Elongated Man. Knowing that he evades the first kill, they put him on the back burner, but knew when Lagom listed Wonder Woman as one of the four possible roles he played that Metal Bra wasn't one of them. So...they think there's a good chance that Team Good is now flying without a scanner. You have theohall reveal as Batman. No one counterclaims. My goodness! Now you have Grundbegriff verify him, and then send a word to Unagi or Remus or El Guapo or whomever to prove himself as Dr. Fate. Uncontested Batman theohall says "no converts!" so who are we to gainsay. Meanwhile, Austin Two Face under the radar, a backup plan just in case Wonder Woman is around and she scans Grund or theohall before they can get to her.

What they didn't foresee was that theohall had already been scanned. bb2112 holding keeping that scan result under his cape ruined the plan and dealt their path to victory a severe setback.

Austin has to go gallows dancing. Isgrimnur too.

[Unagi]

I could buy into that.

[bb2112]

Well, it is after 9. CR should be around.

Remus?

[Lassr]

Well, it is after 9. CR should be around.

Remus?

Isn't Michigan Central time zone? It's 8:30

[Lassr]

Well, it is after 9. CR should be around.

Remus?

Isn't Michigan Central time zone? It's 8:30

no, never mind, it is eastern.

[Lassr]

I could buy into that.

sounds very plausible. I also had been thinking Grund waited to see if anyone counter claimed Theohall.

[Lassr]

guess we might as well forget Isgrimnur ever catching up after today's activity.

[triggercut]

BTW--

I think that if a conversion happened on night one, you've got 5 badguys, not 4.

That means that 3 of the following--Two Face, Joker, Croc, Lex, Clayface, or Parasite--are hiding among a set of players that looks like

Isgrimnur
Austin
coopasonic
Lagom Lite
RMC
Mr Bubbles

in that order of suspicion I have on them. Good luck!

[Unagi]

So... bb2112, and everyone. I think we need to make a play today that doesn't rely on ANY protection.

Reason I say this is such - I think it behooves us greatly to not have a blocked attack, and any ambiguity as to when people may have been converted.

Right now (and hopefully, going forward) we can rely on the premise that if a conversion has occured, it happened on Sunday Night.

This allows us mainly to ride a bit on the current state of things.

A blocked attack tonight, puts everything back up in the air. I don't like that.

[Lassr]

BTW--

I think that if a conversion happened on night one, you've got 5 badguys, not 4.

I kept thinking they may have tried to convert me after my wonder women comments and BB saved me but if that happened I can't explain Grund's decision to say he is Dr Fate to back up Theohall thus your scenario makes more sense.

[bb2112]

BTW--

I think that if a conversion happened on night one, you've got 5 badguys, not 4.

I kept thinking they may have tried to convert me after my wonder women comments and BB saved me but if that happened I can't explain Grund's decision to say he is Dr Fate to back up Theohall thus your scenario makes more sense.

I already explained the Dr. Fate move by Grund.

[Grundbegriff]

I already explained the Dr. Fate move by Grund.

Incorrectly

[Lassr]

BTW--

I think that if a conversion happened on night one, you've got 5 badguys, not 4.

I kept thinking they may have tried to convert me after my wonder women comments and BB saved me but if that happened I can't explain Grund's decision to say he is Dr Fate to back up Theohall thus your scenario makes more sense.

I already explained the Dr. Fate move by Grund.

so many posts today I can't keep them all straight

[bb2112]

So... bb2112, and everyone. I think we need to make a play today that doesn't rely on ANY protection.

Reason I say this is such - I think it behooves us greatly to not have a blocked attack, and any ambiguity as to when people may have been converted.

Right now (and hopefully, going forward) we can rely on the premise that if a conversion has occured, it happened on Sunday Night.

This allows us mainly to ride a bit on the current state of things.

A blocked attack tonight, puts everything back up in the air. I don't like that.

I agree in the fact that we should not rely on a protection. So what is your suggestion?

[Unagi]

It's not that I don't want to rely on protection.

I think it would actually be bad for any night to have No Kill, (since we would then all really turn on eachother, etc).

[bb2112]

I already explained the Dr. Fate move by Grund.

Incorrectly

Ok. Do you want to explain why you spoofed Dr. Fate?

[Remus West]

Just got back from practice. I'm not doing anything that does not involve Superman being dead BEFORE we go to lynch. The reason for this is that right now we have safe guards. If any of the folks suggesting they can take him out fail to do so there are others to pull up the slack. All it would take for us to be completely ruined would be for purge to be Joker and have converted Superman first night. He then talks us into shooting other targets and BAM. Bad guys win. We need to shoot Superman because doing so allows us time to react to anyone that fails to come through. purge may very well be telling the truth. He may also have felt that the only chance the bad guys have is for us to use our shots on anyone other than Superman. I don't care either way. Superman being converted is way to much of a game breaker.

I will happily play along with any plan that starts by shooting Superman. If you want the Hawks to do it and for me to shoot someone else I will. If you'd like me to shoot him and allow the Hawks to shoot someone else I will. One of us needs to shoot him though. I think it should be the Hawks but I will do it if you'd all prefer I be the one.

[Grundbegriff]

I already explained the Dr. Fate move by Grund.

Incorrectly

Ok. Do you want to explain why you spoofed Dr. Fate?

I didn't. I'm Dr. Fate.

[Lassr]

I already explained the Dr. Fate move by Grund.

Incorrectly

Ok. Do you want to explain why you spoofed Dr. Fate?

I didn't. I'm Dr. Fate.

then why did you lie about theohall?

[Remus West]

I didn't. I'm Dr. Fate.

In that case you must hold by your Batman's numbers. So who among the Heroes do you think is lying.

He said 6 Heroes:
Grundbegriff
theohall
tru1cy
triggercut

those four would be confirmed.

then:
Unagi
El Guapo
Remus West
purge
bb2112
Lagom Lite

4 of those 6 would need to be liars for there to only be 6 heroes. Yet there are only 3 bad guys according to "Batman".

[purge]

K. I lied. I will pipe up.

Austin against shooting superman. If Austin is a villain (such as two-face), he's nestled himself in with Grund, and will scan as such and could be used by another scanner to further prove their claims of batman/Dr. Fate.

Plant? Not a far stretch for two seasoned players.

Isgrimnur train

VOTE

7 Isgrimnur - triggercut, Lassr, RMC, bb2112, Mr Bubbles, El Guapo, Unagi

1 bb2112 - Lagom Lite
1 Lagom Lite - Austin
1 Unagi - tru1cy

No Vote: Isgrimnur, coopasonic, Remus West, theohall, purge, Grundbegriff

16 Players remain, Majority is 9

Note both Grund and theo are off on that train.

The following people were not on the Train:

(Claimed good specials)
Remus West
purge
tru1cy
Lagom Lite

(claim human)
Austin
coopasonic

(villains - unproven ... yet)
theohall
Grundbegriff

Makes me regret getting on that train a little. Pretty good candidate for a test down the road. That post above was right when Grund decided to pipe up with a page worth of posts.

That's an odd choice to present.

I mean, couldn't it be:
Both
(A)Isgrimnur is good
And
(B) A bunch of bad guys were not on the Isgrimnur train.

After all, he was easy pickis-- as easy as letting good guys devour the utterly disengaged.

I'm not saying that's what happened either - but your Or didn't seem normal to me.

If Isgrimnur were good and Isgrimnur were at N-2 and "A bunch of bad guys were not on the Isgrimnur train", then why is Isgrimnur alive?

Interesting question from a villain. Plant?

Grund goes after Mr. Bubbles

I like this post.. I'm also glad that Theo was pressed for numbers - Grund plays a very good game. Very patient. You can see him weaving his lies into history.

Green Lantern asking for warning time.

[Grundbegriff]

I didn't. I'm Dr. Fate.

In that case you must hold by your Batman's numbers. So who among the Heroes do you think is lying.

I'm not privy to Batman's numbers, so for all I know, he was lowballing the count to baffle the Evils.

That said, I can't imagine that a randomly constructed game would include nearly every Superhero on the list, including all the scanners and multiple hunters, so one of two things must be true:
(1) This is a sick cage-match experiment on Chaosraven's part,
xor
(2) Some of these fine folks are lying.

[triggercut]

Grund, if it helps, I think you're Dr. Fate.

(I also think you're Harley Quinn, so there's that little complication.)

[Grundbegriff]

Grund, if it helps, I think you're Dr. Fate.

Thank you for that vote of trust.

(I also think you're Harley Quinn, so there's that little complication.)

Er.... Can't help you there. I only wear wingtips.

[purge]

Remus, I'm unconverted. Hell, I came up with a complex system of voting so I could stay hidden. Evil? Yeah, right.

Anyways, I really think the conversion has happened. I think that we have Grim, possibly Austin, Theohall and another one, and our Dr. Fate was converted.

Am I willing to bet on it? No. That's why I want protection tonight. But, if you feel like we need to kill off our own, by all means, the hawks can shoot superman, and then you can shoot whomsoever you want.

Grund, Theo, Austin, Grim would be my guess. I have no idea who the other one is, but given how many heroes there are, I expect a larger roster assuming Grund was Dr. Fate originally.

They can only kill one of us, or convert one, tonight. If Theo is Riddler, I'd leave him. Finding Joker, two face, or even Croc or Parasite is bigger.

So how about you have a little faith, and I'll take care of Superman on a lynch today? I'm trusting you aren't converted (or retarded) and decide to shoot wildly - a little reciprocation would be nice.

[purge]

Grund, if it helps, I think you're Dr. Fate.

Thank you for that vote of trust.

(I also think you're Harley Quinn, so there's that little complication.)

Er.... Can't help you there. I only wear checkered wingtips and a ton of lipstick.

[purge]

I didn't. I'm Dr. Fate.

In that case you must hold by your Batman's numbers. So who among the Heroes do you think is lying.

I'm not privy to Batman's numbers, so for all I know, he was lowballing the count to baffle the Evils.

That said, I can't imagine that a randomly constructed game would include nearly every Superhero on the list, including all the scanners and multiple hunters, so one of two things must be true:
(1) This is a sick cage-match experiment on Chaosraven's part,
xor
(2) Some of these fine folks are lying.

I think he's referring to himself, given the "fine folks" comment. Also, the two are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

[bb2112]

Just got back from practice. I'm not doing anything that does not involve Superman being dead BEFORE we go to lynch. The reason for this is that right now we have safe guards. If any of the folks suggesting they can take him out fail to do so there are others to pull up the slack. All it would take for us to be completely ruined would be for purge to be Joker and have converted Superman first night. He then talks us into shooting other targets and BAM. Bad guys win. We need to shoot Superman because doing so allows us time to react to anyone that fails to come through. purge may very well be telling the truth. He may also have felt that the only chance the bad guys have is for us to use our shots on anyone other than Superman. I don't care either way. Superman being converted is way to much of a game breaker.

I will happily play along with any plan that starts by shooting Superman. If you want the Hawks to do it and for me to shoot someone else I will. If you'd like me to shoot him and allow the Hawks to shoot someone else I will. One of us needs to shoot him though. I think it should be the Hawks but I will do it if you'd all prefer I be the one.

Ok, how about this for the plan.

1. Hawks shoot Superman

Let's get that out of the way first.

2. You shoot Grund. He may or may or may not br Joker. I hope he is.

2a. You shoot Grund. We could do something with Purge Lantern here. We could have him block you. If he successfully blocks, then he is proven. Then we can lynch Grund. I'm not worried about Theo at this point.

2a-cont. I protect you. If there is no night kill, you guys should lynch me tomorrow. And we preserve your shot and your ability to prove yourself.

I guess it depends on how you and Purge want to play it.

[bb2112]

K. I lied. I will pipe up.

?

What did you lie about?

[Grundbegriff]

Anyways, I really think the conversion has happened. I think that we have Grim, possibly Austin, Theohall and another one, and our Dr. Fate was converted.

I'm not a convert. But I agree with you that there are probably only four Evils. Especially in a game with 8 or 10 Specials.

[theohall]

Has anyone actually shot anyone, yet? I sense a bunch of liars.

[Unagi]

K. I lied. I will pipe up.

?

What did you lie about?

heh. that totally had me flustered for a bit, then it struck me what he meant.

He had said he would pipe down.

And he did, but then couldn't hold back any more. Came in and said:

K. I lied. I will pipe up.

Which - at first blush sounded like the Green Lantern claim was a diversion and he had some other claim.

[El Guapo]

Has anyone actually shot anyone, yet? I sense a bunch of liars.

We're still debating shooting plans.

[theohall]

Has anyone actually shot anyone, yet? I sense a bunch of liars.

We're still debating shooting plans.

If so-and-so are the clear evils, WTF is there to debate??? Don't the Heroes want to win? Why such hesitancy? Doesn't this create doubts in the minds of anyone??

[El Guapo]

Has anyone actually shot anyone, yet? I sense a bunch of liars.

We're still debating shooting plans.

If so-and-so are the clear evils, WTF is there to debate??? Don't the Heroes want to win? Why such hesitancy? Doesn't this create doubts in the minds of anyone??

Heh. The main complication is the Supes conversion possibility, as that creates the possibility of the insta-lose if we screw the shots up, and which has led (as you have no doubt noticed) to a variety of complicated plans.

Plus, you know, internet debate.

[Remus West]

Has anyone actually shot anyone, yet? I sense a bunch of liars.

We're still debating shooting plans.

If so-and-so are the clear evils, WTF is there to debate??? Don't the Heroes want to win? Why such hesitancy? Doesn't this create doubts in the minds of anyone??

Even if it does why would we worry about it. We can prove the roles we were given. Just be patient. You'll get your turn. There is no time limit here.

[Remus West]

Remus, I'm unconverted. Hell, I came up with a complex system of voting so I could stay hidden.

Yeah, because Evil never once tried to stay hidden.

You really don't get it though. As far as I'm concerned there is no point in risking whether you are lying or not. We can be certain to remove the SuperHarley threat/potential before getting to that point. You have several times outlined plans that require we trust you and use both shots on a different non-Superman target. We have no reason to trust you. Why should we put the entire game on the line for your claim when we can easily cover our bases without the risk?