OOWW: JLA ... GAME OVER!

[theohall]

Remus, I'm unconverted. Hell, I came up with a complex system of voting so I could stay hidden.

Yeah, because Evil never once tried to stay hidden.

You really don't get it though. As far as I'm concerned there is no point in risking whether you are lying or not. We can be certain to remove the SuperHarley threat/potential before getting to that point. You have several times outlined plans that require we trust you and use both shots on a different non-Superman target. We have no reason to trust you. Why should we put the entire game on the line for your claim when we can easily cover our bases without the risk?

You can completely trust purge. I have no doubt he is not lying.

[Remus West]

Remus, I'm unconverted. Hell, I came up with a complex system of voting so I could stay hidden.

Yeah, because Evil never once tried to stay hidden.

You really don't get it though. As far as I'm concerned there is no point in risking whether you are lying or not. We can be certain to remove the SuperHarley threat/potential before getting to that point. You have several times outlined plans that require we trust you and use both shots on a different non-Superman target. We have no reason to trust you. Why should we put the entire game on the line for your claim when we can easily cover our bases without the risk?

You can completely trust purge. I have no doubt he is not lying.

You don't seem to get it either. I don't care right now. It is immaterial to the situation. I'll reread and make my decision regarding him later - tomorrow game time.

[Unagi]

do you want him to disable your target?

And, so then - if that's how you feel - should we move on the action of Hawking triggercut? Or, do you want to Arrow Grund?

Wanna mull it over more?

[Remus West]

do you want him to disable your target?

And, so then - if that's how you feel - should we move on the action of Hawking triggercut? Or, do you want to Arrow Grund?

Wanna mull it over more?

go ahead and hawk Superman.

If you folks feel it is a good idea for him to block my arrow go ahead but I don't think it a good idea because then I remain valuable. Lets use the arrow today. If you guys want Austin shot I'll do that but I'd also be willing to shoot Grund (no point in shooting theo).

[Chaosraven]

If I disable grund, the hawks can take a shot AND KILL TWO-FACE. If they're lying, then that's one thing.

But the issue isn't killing Grund. The issue is that if he's Two-Face and us Hawks shoot him, that he'll die and come back good. If we don't have a genuine Batman, then we wouldn't have any way to distinguish whether he was Dr. Fate or whether he was Two-Face.

Apologies if I've missed this, but if Green Lantern hits Two-Face, and Two-Face is then killed (assuming no Batman), would he come back villain, or does GL turn off his good face?

Per the end of the very first post:

What happens when the Green Lantern chooses me?
Superman - if Day: a Lynch will be Successful, and his identity will not be revealed.
Wonder Woman - if Night: Compulsion will be Null. No Scan, No Protection, and that Player will be considered to have been "previously chosen".
Batman - if Night: No Count given.
Green Arrow - if Day: Arrow use ineligible that Day.
Martian Manhunter - if Night: if Contact already made, must cease. Broken connection will not result in Paired Death.
Wonder Twins - must Cease PM Contact. Other twin will still be allowed to send One Way Messages, but affected Twin may not respond by PM.
Elongated Man - Ralph will die during a Villain Attack
Doctor Fate - receive no result of his scan. Use of the Ring will NOT stop him from using his PM ability (or MINDBURST)
The Flash - may not protect, target is not considered consecutive for next night protection
Captain Marvel - reveal will fail
Hawkman or Hawkwoman - if Day, attack will FAIL.
Atom - if Night, can be killed at Night

Lex Luthor - if Night: Scan will be Blocked. Will not learn identity of Player the Villains kill at Night.
Riddler - No info on Hero killed. If Day: no further answers
Two-Face - will scan as normal during that phase
Killer Croc - will not trigger the kill
Joker - May not use Bomb if Day, May not Convert if Night.
Harley Quinn - loses use of Powers as above.
Clayface - will scan as Clayface
Parasite - loss of Drained Power

Green Lantern - Green Lantern may use his Ring, either during the Day or the Night. He chooses a Target and that Players Abilities are negated during that phase. Green Lantern may only use his Ring three times. Use of the Ring does Not Reveal Green Lantern.

My understanding of "normal" isn't that he will be "normal, unpowered" but that his power is disabled - as that is my power.

CR, please clarify - if Green Lantern uses his ring on Two-Face during the day, will a lynch /shot reveal normal, or villain?

Lynch result would be VILLAIN

[Chaosraven]

Man-O-Man, is Chaos going to be pissed when he gets home tonight and has to read through all this.

we still have 6+ hours to add a few more pages. go go go

....and I hate you.

[Chaosraven]

CR, can you please confirm (that this wasn't lost in the Great Rules Delete Event)...

Does the Green Arrow SHOT come with a Moderator Event , if the Arrow hits a Normal Human?

In the event Green Arrow shoots a Villain or Hero, there would be a writeup revealing PLAYERX Dead by Arrow.
In the event Green Arrow shoots a Normal, Green Arrow is notified behind the scenes, no Public Display.

[Chaosraven]

VOTE


3 Grundbegriff - Mr Bubbles, bb2112, triggercut

2 Isgrimnur - El Guapo, coopasonic
2 bb2112 - grundbegriff, theohall

1 purge - Isgrimnur
1 theohall - Austin

No Vote: Remus West, purge, Lassr, RMC, Unagi, Lagom Lite, tru1cy,



16 Players remain, Majority is 9

[theohall]

I feel like I am reading a Charlie Brown comic book right now with all these wishy-washy supposed shooters.

[theohall]

Well, since you all bought the early numbers....

Here is the truth...

There are 8 Heroes
5 Villains
and 3 "normals"

So you can all go figure that crap out for yourselves.

The early lie certainly got all the Heroes in the open, didn't it?

[Austin]

If you shoot me, I will not die. Missed that before. I still think shooting me is maybe a waste, but I know who I am and you do not. As to Purge's critique of my, "we do not shoot Superman" quote. That was a different time and context, and Remus actually agrees immediately afterward in the next post. At that time we had so little info that we had to play the odds.

(And I am not clear how my knowing that Grund's favorite role is normal plays into me being evil)

But I digress and will not muddy the waters. If you shoot me, I will live. If you lynch me, I will die and reveal good.

[Remus West]

One big issue I have with shooting Austin is the potential for him to be Two-Face.

[Austin]

One big issue I have with shooting Austin is the potential for him to be Two-Face.

I thought 2 Face would die in the shot.

[Austin]

Never mind, read the rulez. Seems we have no Batman, so lynch me if need be but do not count yourself in a better position when "normal" comes up. If you think there is a slight chance that I am 2 Face, do not shoot me.

[triggercut]

Well, since you all bought the early numbers....

Here is the truth...

There are 8 Heroes
5 Villains
and 3 "normals"

So you can all go figure that crap out for yourselves.

The early lie certainly got all the Heroes in the open, didn't it?

For the sake of the comedy of this post, what are you saying here, theo?

1. You're really Batman, and you lied about the earlier numbers because as Batman, it is a great play to fool the rest of the heroes with false and in so doing hopefully get everyone to uncloak?

OR

2. You're admitting you're not Batman...but somehow you've got access to the knowledge Batman would have regarding the number of powered and unpowered roles in Team Hero?

[Austin]

And "normals" are "civilians".

[tru1cy]

i can not confirm or refute any claims about my current hero status

[bb2112]

Ok, how about this for the plan.

1. Hawks shoot Superman

Let's get that out of the way first.

2. You shoot Grund. He may or may or may not br Joker. I hope he is.

2a. You shoot Grund. We could do something with Purge Lantern here. We could have him block you. If he successfully blocks, then he is proven. Then we can lynch Grund. I'm not worried about Theo at this point.

2a-cont. I protect you. If there is no night kill, you guys should lynch me tomorrow. And we preserve your shot and your ability to prove yourself.

I guess it depends on how you and Purge want to play it.

Let's just take this in baby steps.

Hawks, please execute step one. Then we can get the Superman threat out of the way, and prove two people.

Then I would like to hear back from people on whether we want to do 2 or 2a or some other variant. Either way, unfortunately, we need to get through step one first. Supes has to take a mace to the face.

[tru1cy]

I'm still against nuking Trig, cause I really think Grund was converted on the first night

[bb2112]

I'm still against nuking Trig, cause I really think Grund was converted on the first night

What is your proof?

This isn't like other games where we have the luxury of waiting and seeing what happens. Either we need definitive evidence that Joker is either not in the game, or has already used his conversion. We can't afford to take the chance of an automatic loss. So unless you, or someone else, can prove without a shadow of a doubt that Superman can't be converted ever, this is the only play.

Shooting a proven good guy sucks. I don't like it, but with this rule set even Trig sees that it is necessary.

[triggercut]

Yep, I think there's a decent (as in, maybe 50/50) chance Grund got converted on Night One.

Not worth the risk of losing the game over, when the solution presents itself so readily.

Perhaps if we didn't have a better handle on two badguys to drop and a good lead on where to find more I'd have more problem with it. As it is, it feels like trading a goodguy for a badguy, and that's always a good trade for us.

[purge]

K. I lied. I will pipe up.

?

What did you lie about?

I said I'd be quiet.

[bb2112]

I said I'd be quiet.

Got it. Just wanted to make sure.

What do you think of the plan to use your power on GA?

Don't do it yet, but if you want to prove yourself, I think this might be a way.

[Remus West]

Can we please stop saying "prove". The only thing we prove is our roles and those are immaterial until we find someone that has proven their role AND died Evil or we have no nights without a kill (oops, that part is already ruined) and Joker get lynched blowing someone up.

BTW, if you folks do have purge use his ability on me he MUST also use it on any lynch target. I think that a bad idea. We actually need that bomb to go off if it is out there since it is our only method of knowing we have hit Joker. That said, if he uses the Lantern on me and we then allow the lynch to go through without Lanterning the target I could get blown up.

We can accept everyone's role claims without accepting their alliance. We can then work from there rather than create more risk by going through convoluted routes to prove roles.

[Unagi]

Wait.
What's the point or value to disabling Remus??

[purge]

:sigh:

GREEN ARROW SHOT - must be done on a known villain to prove Remus - I don't trust him otherwise.

I think we're looking at Grund being converted, or he was REALLY convincing that he could prove his power. He couldn't be Parasite since we'd need a dead Dr. Fate first.

BB claims Theo is The Riddler, and now Theo is thrashing around in trying to save face. Maybe theohall is stupid, maybe he thinks we are. Shooting Grund would certainly prove / disprove Theo's claims, and answer the question with finality.

The shots need to be used today - the shooters could be swayed otherwise if a convert didn't happen. This goes back to my last list of proven. If I'm protected tonight by BB, then he will also be able to confirm my alignment. If I only use one or two shots of my ring, it means we have use of it for tomorrow's lynch.

I don't need superman to prove my powers - since it doesn't prove alignment. BB's scan will certainly do that for me. Honestly, I doubt that BB will live the night tonight since he can't self-protect. I am hoping that Trig was pulling a fast one by claiming Tru1cy is Flash, or perhaps RMC is.

What is, is.

We have a single first target, and that is a villain. I suggest Grund at this point, and since the human shot doesn't report back and we have no scans on Remus, we trust his shot to the public and use lynch / hawkman to kill supes and the other villain.


THE ONLY QUESTIONS THAT REMAIN:
Who does what, and in which order?

My suggestion:
1) Remus shoots Grund (do you want me to disable him first?)
2) Hawkfolk shoot Superman (which I don't feel good about)
3) We lynch Theohall, Austin, or Isgrimnur? (and do I disable them?)
4) BB protects/scans me tonight so I can disable the next lynch target.

[coopasonic]

You really think BB will be around tomorrow to tell us the result of his scan? If he is around tomorrow, is anyone going to believe him?

[Remus West]

There is no question as to the order of things.

1) The Hawks kill Superman

if they refuse or prove unable then I'm putting an arrow through his head myself.

From there we can discuss steps 2+ but until Superman is gone we really have nothing to discuss.

Other than that, unless I missed a second claim by triggercut, he said that tru1cy is Atom not Flash.

[purge]

I said I'd be quiet.

Got it. Just wanted to make sure.

What do you think of the plan to use your power on GA?

Don't do it yet, but if you want to prove yourself, I think this might be a way.

No. What if Remus and I were villains? This is a shadow-puppet show, with no proof of ring use, no proof of shot, and no proof of alignment.

Sadly your power is the most important one since you can discern alignment except two-face, and you cannot self-protect.

If the shooters go today, their value is in being proven as heroes - it doesn't really disprove them being converted though (that can only be discerned through action).

We only have one undertaker (Batman) who likely doesn't exist, so I'm concerned that the lynch process won't even tell us who we nabbed, just that we did so. My ring will let us find "two-face" instead of a corpse on an unknown lynch, and stop the joker bomb.

Since we're shooting Grund (at risk of being joker) we don't need to disable him, the bomb is only on lynch.

Scratch that order!

I want Hawks to shoot Grund so he dies regardless.
Remus can be proven on shooting Superman, so that we don't have a situation where we have to trust Remus's word that he tried to shoot Grund who happens to be two-face. That's giving them way too much room in case Remus is lying / is converted. That way I only have to use one power today (on the lynch kill).

[purge]

There is no question as to the order of things.

1) The Hawks kill Superman

if they refuse or prove unable then I'm putting an arrow through his head myself.

From there we can discuss steps 2+ but until Superman is gone we really have nothing to discuss.

Other than that, unless I missed a second claim by triggercut, he said that tru1cy is Atom not Flash.

That's triggercut saying it. Doesn't make it true - Tru1cy has refuted it. Also, are you dense?

[RMC]

I said I'd be quiet.

Got it. Just wanted to make sure.

What do you think of the plan to use your power on GA?

Don't do it yet, but if you want to prove yourself, I think this might be a way.

This is dumb to intentionally nuke one of our own powers. Hell, scan him and if you live you can prove him. But blocking one of our powers, only proves he is GL, not that he is good or evil..

[Remus West]

purge, you wonder why I doubt you? Grund has claimed a role. My arrow will kill him unless he is two face. Given that theohall's claims combined with Grund's claims and the number of Heros out shows that Grund is lying. Which means he is Evil. Which means he dies to my arrow. You want to use your power to prove I shot then I suppose you could nuke Grund's ability but that removes our only way to know if we have hit Two-Face or not.

If I fail to kill Grund then we lynch him. If he shows as "Good" then it backs up my shot claim. If he shows as Evil then you'll know I lied. Unless your claimed ability gets underfoot during the lynch and not the shot. If he blows up you'll know Joker is gone and that I need to go soon thereafter.

That's triggercut saying it. Doesn't make it true - Tru1cy has refuted it.

tru1cy said he could not confirm nor deny it. Exactly what someone trying to keep their "token", as triggercut put it, would have to do.

Also, are you dense?

You seem to be or you assume the Bad Guys are complete morons.

[triggercut]

There is no question as to the order of things.

1) The Hawks kill Superman

if they refuse or prove unable then I'm putting an arrow through his head myself.

From there we can discuss steps 2+ but until Superman is gone we really have nothing to discuss.

Other than that, unless I missed a second claim by triggercut, he said that tru1cy is Atom not Flash.

That's triggercut saying it. Doesn't make it true - Tru1cy has refuted it. Also, are you dense?

Are you?

tru1cy didn't "refute" anything. He said he'd neither confirm nor refute my claim of him. Take that for what you will.

[triggercut]

Wait.
What's the point or value to disabling Remus??

I also fail to understand what is gained by this.

Kill me. Kill Grund. Hang theo.

See who's left in the morning. Lynch accordingly.

[Remus West]

Also, we do not need you to use the Lantern on the lynch. Joker blowing up one of us is not ideal but knowing he is gone means that we won't have to sweat any other nights where nobody dies. Information is power. Joker blowing up gives us information. Its a high cost but it is also a valuable piece of information.

[tru1cy]

I will not confirm or refute any claims about my role


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RMC]

The more I read Purge, the more I wonder if he is not on Team Evil.....

We have to kill Superman, so we can ensure a chance of victory. End of story.

Why do you keep trying to get us to shoot Grund first, and then act like it proves anything? All it proves is that person had a power.

My worry is that team evil is getting us into an order of kills, so they can use Croc to kill one of our shooters. That is why we need to kill superman first, to ensure if the convert has not been used we can win.

I think the convert was used, as the only person who would not know they blocked an attack was Lassr. And while I think Lassr is a good target, I think converting one of the people we are guessing at is just as feasible.

<shrug> That is how I see it, and I think we just need to figure out who kills Superman(sorry I hate killing our own guys, but it is the only way to be sure).

Then after we do that, we can move towards who do we kill next.

[Remus West]

Unagi and El Guapo,

Feel free to off Superman when you find the time. If you have an issue with doing it let me know and I'll do it.

Thanks.

- Oliver Queen

[triggercut]

A page ago I listed a guess as to what may have occurred. I've given you a suspect list and why.

I'm ready for that mace in the face.

[triggercut]

Unagi and El Guapo,

Feel free to off Superman when you find the time. If you have an issue with doing it let me know and I'll do it.

Thanks.

- Oliver Queen

I think the order may have been sent and we're waiting on CR. Hold your shot.