Octopus Overlords

by **Unagi** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:39 pm

Another way I see it:

I am basically certain you have the ability to take a shot.

A converted Green Arrow had a number of Hero targets he could have stealth shot.

by **Unagi** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:07 pm

WAIT !!
no,

Don't shoot a Normal

If they are normal, that will make them protected and they could attack that Normal player and make it look like a conversion.

by **Remus West** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:28 pm

Unagi wrote:WAIT !!
no,

Don't shoot a Normal

If they are normal, that will make them protected and they could attack that Normal player and make it look like a conversion.

You do realize that if they wish to surrender a kill to a "protection" they have the option, don't you? Not only that but if they do so tonight then they are allowing Wonder Woman to scan again. I highly doubt we need to worry about a protection tonight.

I'm waiting to hear from at least something approaching a majority before I shoot either Grund or Austin but I think the question is more about how reliable I am rather than protection.

by **bb2112** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:40 pm

Remus West wrote:
Unagi wrote:WAIT !!
no,

Don't shoot a Normal

If they are normal, that will make them protected and they could attack that Normal player and make it look like a conversion.

You do realize that if they wish to surrender a kill to a "protection" they have the option, don't you? .

Remus, what do you mean by this. I am almost positive CR said evils have to target a kill. I don't think they have an option to "surrender" a kill. Or am I misunderstanding what you are saying?

by **purge** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:49 pm

by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:54 pm

What the blue hell have you people been doing?!?

:coffee:

by **theohall** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:02 pm

They killed Superman!

by **bb2112** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:03 pm

Isgrimnur wrote::coffee:

What the blue hell have you people been doing?!?

Outing every special we have and killing heroes. You know, the usual.

by **Unagi** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:08 pm

Heh.
Just now realized that, Remus.

Bb, you should scan Lagom tonight.

by **purge** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:47 pm

Unagi wrote:Heh.
Just now realized that, Remus.

Bb, you should scan Lagom tonight.

Say, and then we can shoot Tru1cy, you know, to be sure. :roll:

EM and/or AM are likely in the game. Even if Supes was evil and Tru1cy was a plant, or if Lagom is spoofing EM and is evil, the villains KNOW THAT and just move a kill over to the other one - were it their intention to create a Harley panic with a no-kill night.

But they won't, and here's why. Figure it out.

There is no point in worrying about a miss tonight - they have a stable of people who are proven, and even if one is harley, there are a number of others hidden that we *need* to kill before we worry about killing proven heroes in a Harley hunt - none of the heroes can be anything other than their role (plus 1 conversion).

The villains, on the other hand, need to clear us out to hide.

We need to focus on who gets shot next. I'm willing to give Remus the benefit to test a disabled Isgrimnur or Austin, if he so chooses, or we put all our eggs in the BB basket and shoot-then-lynch the two most likely subjects (grund/theo). If the lynch turns up good (which would be a big freakin' shock), then BB dies next lynch.

Grunds silence and Theo's pathetic backpedaling are a deafening admission of guilt. They haven't even bothered to go through the dance of digging up a case for BB to be lying, so me mentioning it isn't sowing seeds of dissent or trying to make people feel uncomfortable - it's me thinking ahead to any possibility and having some contingency.

I would strongly suggest that Theo bites it today, as BB claims he's the riddler. He can go through the list of outings today to confirm them, even Tru1cy. Thing is, if Lex isn't present, then they CANNOT KILL HIM AT NIGHT because they will not have any verification of his powers - it means that Tru1cy may actually be able to carry the game to the end, and we KNOW he couldn't be Harley (as then Supes would have revealed it during the scan). The only risk of Tru1cy is if we already had a SuperHarley, which isn't impossible.

Or do what you want. Remus, post a message when you want someone disabled for your shot today. If you're holding it for tomorrow, then I may as well vote now to lynch Theohall.

Theohall

:coffee:

by **purge** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:51 pm

withdraw theohall

Can we get a vote count, CR?

I'm not leaving that up until I can see some updated numbers.

by **Grundbegriff** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:52 pm

purge wrote:Grunds silence and Theo's pathetic backpedaling are a deafening admission of guilt.

I have nothing to admit. I'm Fate and I have no good explanation for Batman's play. I know bb2112 must be evil, but since the minds of so many are already made up, there's not much point in trying to persuade. Appearances can be deceiving, but sheep can be stubborn, too.

by **Remus West** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:49 pm

Purge, I'm waiting to see who the group wants me to shoot. I'd rather shoot Austin than Isgrimnur but I really think either is simply going to add another "proven" to the fold. Which is fine if you all are willing to trust me. I'll let you pick which you would prefer though. As for the lynch target though, we should go after Grund. If we trust bb2112 then Grund has a shot at being Joker while theohall does not. Riddler can wait (whats he going to discover about us that we have not already told him?).

by **Remus West** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:50 pm

Just post in thread which player you have disabled and I will shoot that player.

by **purge** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:14 am

Remus West wrote:Purge, I'm waiting to see who the group wants me to shoot. I'd rather shoot Austin than Isgrimnur but I really think either is simply going to add another "proven" to the fold. Which is fine if you all are willing to trust me. I'll let you pick which you would prefer though. As for the lynch target though, we should go after Grund. If we trust bb2112 then Grund has a shot at being Joker while theohall does not. Riddler can wait (whats he going to discover about us that we have not already told him?).

I get what you're driving at with Joker, but consider this:

If Grund is dead - and we have a "miss" tonight, does it matter in your assurance that a conversion did or did not happen?

Consider that we have no trust of Theo. He's stated that no conversion happened - and is the Riddler. This information is at best useless, and at worst given to provide us a sense of calm.

We need to kill known villains, and at this point, Tru1cy may be safer with Riddler dead.

Think it over, I've not decided who I'd like to target yet. I'm going to sleep on it.

I would also like our friends, El and Unagi, to chip in. The only reason I'm not looking at BOTH as a target is it would feel REALLY bad to have killed batman and Dr. Fate only to find out that BB was a liar. 3 Heroes dead, no villains? I dunno.

What do you guys think? (and I'll consider the counsel of everyone save the targets - but feel free to chime in - it might sway me).

by **purge** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:15 am

Remus West wrote:Just post in thread which player you have disabled and I will shoot that player.

Will do.

by **Isgrimnur** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:35 am

Finally caught up. Sheesh, you people are verbose.

Still a normal, don't bother shooting me. ANow if you'll excuse me, I'm going to upload this mass costume stripdown party to YouTube.

by **Lagom Lite** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:02 am

I now saw that we don't learn alignment from shots. So. Even though one of them is lying, no shooting bb2112 or Grund. Also, no shooting theohall, since he claims Hero and we learn nothing from his non-lynch death.

Since there's no public announcement when GA shoots someone who might be a normal (Austin, Isgrimnur) doesn't really prove them nor Remus so it basically wastes the shot IF they're normal. If the target dies, it means the target was either a Hero or a Villain but it does prove Remus.

The upside to waiting to shoot is that our scanner, be it Grund or bb2112, gets another night to scan. But the Villains get another night to scan as well, if the other one is converted/Lex Luthor. OTOH the Villains already know who they are, and who most of the Heroes are.

Right now there's a Hero overload and we need to start sifting through who's who. Lynching theohall seems the way to go, but if you want to shoot I'll wait for it. I think you should maybe wait until we lynch theohall, and then shoot Grund/bb2112 tomorrow. Be more efficient.

Of course there's the risk that you are night-killed. But if bb2112 is who he says he is, that shouldn't happen. So it's a gamble.

by **RMC** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:25 am

Lagom Lite wrote:I now saw that we don't learn alignment from shots. So. Even though one of them is lying, no shooting bb2112 or Grund. Also, no shooting theohall, since he claims Hero and we learn nothing from his non-lynch death.

Since there's no public announcement when GA shoots someone who might be a normal (Austin, Isgrimnur) doesn't really prove them nor Remus so it basically wastes the shot IF they're normal. If the target dies, it means the target was either a Hero or a Villain but it does prove Remus.

The upside to waiting to shoot is that our scanner, be it Grund or bb2112, gets another night to scan. But the Villains get another night to scan as well, if the other one is converted/Lex Luthor. OTOH the Villains already know who they are, and who most of the Heroes are.

Right now there's a Hero overload and we need to start sifting through who's who. Lynching theohall seems the way to go, but if you want to shoot I'll wait for it. I think you should maybe wait until we lynch theohall, and then shoot Grund/bb2112 tomorrow. Be more efficient.

Of course there's the risk that you are night-killed. But if bb2112 is who he says he is, that shouldn't happen. So it's a gamble.

I say it is absurd to let someone live today if we even think they might be the Joker, and we think there is a chance the conversion has not happened. It's the entire reason we killed Supes. Now we are going to step back and say, let's hold the shot? Really???

If we shot Grund, and Theo comes back good, then we got had and we kill BB on the next day. But I don't think BB is lying, so I think we have to take the two out today.

I don't trust LL nor do I trust Purge. <shrug> Just my feeling.

by **Unagi** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:33 am

Not sure why Isgrimnur wouldn't want to be GL/GAshot.

Seems like a no brainer if he was Normal.

by **Unagi** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:40 am

Lagom,
You actually think that Theohall has been acting like Batman, with all his taunting, fake numbers? , etc ?

You buy into that , to the degree that you think Grund may indeed be honest with his scan of Theohall?

by **Unagi** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:43 am

Unagi wrote:Not sure why Isgrimnur wouldn't want to be GL/GAshot.

Seems like a no brainer if he was Normal.

And, I might add, just before shot taking time, he catches up.

by **Grundbegriff** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:08 am

RMC wrote:If we shot Grund, and Theo comes back good, then we got had and we kill BB on the next day. But I don't think BB is lying, so I think we have to take the two out today.

Wouldn't it would be pretty careless to slaughter the only player who can scan for Joker and Croc?

See, this is one reason I prefer Normal over Scanner. I'm seldom long for this virtual world, and Scanner is the one role we hope will endure for a good long while.

by **coopasonic** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:10 am

Grundbegriff wrote:
RMC wrote:If we shot Grund, and Theo comes back good, then we got had and we kill BB on the next day. But I don't think BB is lying, so I think we have to take the two out today.

Wouldn't it would be pretty careless to slaughter the only player who can scan for Joker and Croc?

See, this is one reason I prefer Normal over Scanner. I'm seldom long for this virtual world, and Scanner is the one role we hope will endure for a good long while.

Seriously?

Killer Croc - if Scanned by Wonder Woman/Doctor Fate, he will kill Wonder Woman/Doctor Fate (this replaces the Night Kill, and is not affected by Protection). If shot by Green Arrow, he will die, but will also kill Green Arrow. NO FORM OF PROTECTION WILL STOP KILLER CROC'S ABILITY (other than Green Lantern Negation)

Good luck finding us Killer Croc.

by **purge** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:30 am

I've been perusing the recent past (looking for Grund stuff), and found this gem:

purge wrote:I'll admit, my ass-grabbing of Theo is based on boredom.
If you want N-3, Theo, then pipe up and say something significant.

It's funny how I've come up with ways for us to all contribute without revealing what we are or are not, and yet, this dragging seems to be better.

Perhaps we should all just lynch superman again?

I was going to disable him silently here had people bitten. I didn't want to DRIVE the vote there as then clearly I would have been outed.

Grundbegriff wrote:
Remus West wrote:
Chaosraven wrote:No Vote: Grundbegriff, tru1cy, purge

That's the current state. However, I spent a long time with a vote on Bubbles, carrying forward my apprehensions from yesterday about his near-invisibility.

As I said, I think Bubbles, Isgrimnur, and Lagom Lite are much more viable targets if finding Evil is what we're trying to do.

Bubbles for anomalous quiet behavior, Isgrimnur because of the bizarre aborted bandwagon on him, and Lagom Lite because he has swayed between In Your Face on the one hand and Absent on the other (managing to seem wolfy in both modes).

I'm not sure if any of these three targets on Grunds radar are staged, but it's an interesting look at what he was pushing for before he was outed.

It doesn't mean that Is"kill-me-two-times"grimnur isn't Joker, and with his harley power spent that his next contribution was to be able to get another kill in if his train came up again.

Austin wrote:I still lean toward evil Grund. His "claim" was subtle enough toward a "I'm a good guy who looses powers if I reveal" role. . . but I guess there is a chance that he is being truthful. He's being a bit too nice to me too; that makes me nervous.

Interesting....

I've sent a PM with a clarification request to the moderator. Then I'll make my decision and we'll continue. Until then, feel free to chime in on what you think.

by **purge** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:33 am

Note: I will post when I've submitted a disable order.

by **purge** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:35 am

My question has to do with whether the ring use is a mod event or a silent event.

by **bb2112** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:58 am

If Isgrimnur is evil, he is most likely Two-Face. It fits nicely with his "I am normal" claim. If he ever got scanned, he would come back normal, proving his claim.

If Austin is evil, then I wouldn't be surprised if he is Croc. His little :?:

may have been a subtle enticement to draw a scan.

by **bb2112** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:01 am

I keep flipping back and forth on which one to shoot, but I think both are good choices. It just sucks that we will not get to know the alignment of Remus's kill.

by **purge** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:02 am

I've made my decision. I am sending in my disable order for Isgrimnur now.

by **bb2112** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:07 am

The only problem I have with this plan is if Purge is spoofing, and Isgrimnur really is Two-Face, then Two-Face's ability does not get shut off. GA shoots Isgrimnur and he comes back normal.

This plan will not prove anything if both Purge and Issy are evil.

by **purge** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:09 am

I hope it doesn't end up like this...

Spoiler:

by **purge** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:10 am

bb2112 wrote:The only problem I have with this plan is if Purge is spoofing, and Isgrimnur really is Two-Face, then Two-Face's ability does not get shut off. GA shoots Isgrimnur and he comes back normal.

This plan will not prove anything if both Purge and Issy are evil.

And we hope you're not evil either, BB.

Have a little faith - I have to.

by **purge** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:13 am

I like this one better:

Remus, if you wouldn't mind proving Isgrimnur, please.

(edited to change to bigimg tag)

by **Remus West** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:15 am

I really do not understand why folks think Isgrimnur is Evil but here we go. Off to sbumit my order.

by **Isgrimnur** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:16 am

Now my car won't start. Thanks a lot, GL.

Spoiler:

by **El Guapo** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:17 am

I'm a little confused why we're not shooting Grund or Theo.

by **Remus West** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:18 am

El Guapo wrote:I'm a little confused why we're not shooting Grund or Theo.

We want the information gained via lynch with them. Shooting a claimed Innocent either provides us with another trusted (to me if nobody else) or kills a bad guy.

by **bb2112** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:25 am

purge wrote:
bb2112 wrote:The only problem I have with this plan is if Purge is spoofing, and Isgrimnur really is Two-Face, then Two-Face's ability does not get shut off. GA shoots Isgrimnur and he comes back normal.

This plan will not prove anything if both Purge and Issy are evil.

And we hope you're not evil either, BB.

Have a little faith - I have to.

Here is my only real issue with you Purge. Your constant request that we use up our shots and you use your ring on Supes. If you really are GL, I can see why you feel completely comfortable with that play. If you are evil, I can also see why you would be completely comfortable with that play. However, you have to admit, in a WW game with the potential of an unlynchable Superhero, it is a huge chance for the good guys to take. You may be blinded by the fact that you can deliver on your claim, but you never put yourself in the rest of the team's shoes to look at it the way an outsider would. This is either an incredibly bad move on your part, or a spoof. I've watched you play other games, you seem pretty intelligent, so I just can't, in good conscious, believe you would make that bad of a move. Maybe others see the bad move as par for the course, so take your claim on face value, but I believe you are better than that.

It is the same thing that eventually made me flip on Theo last game. After Theo came out wrong in his theory of his first two lynches, he never changed his mind. You would think after 2 strikes that maybe you would rethink things a little. Theo never did. He is a better player than that, therefore, there had to be something else going on. There was.

I just think there is something else going on with you too.

But hey, I may be wrong. You may be a player that makes some really bad choices at times, and maybe I'm blind to that.

by **Unagi** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:29 am

bb2112 wrote:The only problem I have with this plan is if Purge is spoofing, and Isgrimnur really is Two-Face, then Two-Face's ability does not get shut off. GA shoots Isgrimnur and he comes back normal.

This plan will not prove anything if both Purge and Issy are evil.

No it wont.

...and...
You probably haven't bothered to think about it, but there is room for You to be evil and Grund to be Evil and Theohall to Be Evil.

Another part of this game (WW) is trying to put a tiny bit of faith in guessing who isn't a wolf too.

bb2112 wrote:Here is my only real issue with you Purge. Your constant request that we use up our shots and you use your ring on Supes.

He is just totally oblivious to the idea that we might not trust him. That's his damage.

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