Game of Thrones - Season 2 Discussion

[Odin]

In a rare move, HBO has released the Season 3 show opening / credits already.

That was cute. Did those three do an audio commentary for the full season? Because, there really were parts of their own show that they probably shouldn't have watched.

[Ralph-Wiggum]

I know there's a lot of back-and-forth about how to properly post spoilers, what should be spoiled, etc. and I hate to add to it... but in my opinion Toe you should redo your spoiler above and simply mention the event by name. There's no reason to add the second part. Folks familiar with the story know will know what you're talking about... those who aren't will have a significant moment in the story spoiled for no good reason.

+1

[naednek]

I know there's a lot of back-and-forth about how to properly post spoilers, what should be spoiled, etc. and I hate to add to it... but in my opinion Toe you should redo your spoiler above and simply mention the event by name. There's no reason to add the second part. Folks familiar with the story know will know what you're talking about... those who aren't will have a significant moment in the story spoiled for no good reason.

Yes I know if they don't want to be spoiled they shouldn't click a spoiler button... but I think it's still good to err on the side of caution.

I don't think there was any back and forth. I listed my reasons, and it basically went ignored. So I'll just have not click any spoiler posts even if it's regarding that episode/season because it's not labeled, and no idea if it's regarding something from a later book, thus limiting my and others enjoyment of the discussion.

[Zaxxon]

Naednek, your reasons didn't go ignored--there simply wasn't much for me to respond with. The process was that spoilers past the currently-aired episode would be spoilered, while discussion of stuff that has aired and didn't involve future events would not. I was happy with that, you were not. Since there are several that have chimed in that they'd prefer a more nuanced spoiler process, I'm going to try to mark my spoiler scope a little better going forward since it seems to be a popular request.

I just re-watched ep 12 with the interactive stuff turned on. Again I think the interactive features are indispensable for folks who haven't read the books. Little explanations for things like who Salladhor Saan is, maps of where locations that were mentioned are (Eastwatch-by-the-Sea, for example). Also some nice videos on Pyke, the Painted Table, the strength of the various claimants, and more.

As for the episode itself, I liked it a lot more on 2nd viewing. It flowed a lot better for me when I wasn't all WTF every 10 minutes over things I wasn't expecting / explaining things to the wife. I'm still not a big fan of

Books 2-5 minor spoiler:

Spoiler:

Rakharo's death, but I read some grapevine theory that the actor left the show unexpectedly and in a hurry and that may be why they killed him off. Serves the story (red wastes suck, the other Khals are not pleased with Dany's group, etc) and he's not a super-important character to lose (as far as we know). It might also explain why there was no actual shot of him meeting his doom, nor one of his face on the decapitated head.

As for the Stannis-Melisandre scene,

Book 2 spoiler:

Spoiler:

I'm less annoyed by it. As we discussed to death, I'm 100% certain that Stannis and Big Red actually did get it on in book 2, so my only objection was the fact that she mentions the word son and Stannis goes all 'gimme some sugar'. On 2nd viewing, it looks to me more that Melisandre is working her voodoo on Stannis, and I also saw more in Stannis' reactions that suggested to me that he's not ecstatic about having to do this.

I think the Pyke stuff was pretty stellar and am liking Alfie Allen's portrayal of Theon more and more. Tyrion and Varys could have a 53-minute single-scene episode and I'd watch it many times. The Tyrion-Janos scene was perfect. The Tyrion-Cersei scene struck a chord now that I wasn't surprised about the change. Also, Tyrion. Tyrion, Tyrion, Tyrion.

I still didn't like the Ros scene. I get that they're trying to give us a fuller picture of Littlefinger, but I think the screen time could be better spent when they're under such crazy time constraints already. I liked the episode-ending scene more this time, too. I know that

Minor book 2 spoiler:

Spoiler:

in the books we didn't get confirmation that Craster was giving his boys to the Others this soon, but remember we haven't seen Others since episode 1 and haven't even seen wights in awhile. I'm OK with them adding this scene to keep them in viewers' minds as well as to convey info we would have had to get in another way later.

[naednek]

Naednek, your reasons didn't go ignored--there simply wasn't much for me to respond with. The process was that spoilers past the currently-aired episode would be spoilered, while discussion of stuff that has aired and didn't involve future events would not. I was happy with that, you were not. Since there are several that have chimed in that they'd prefer a more nuanced spoiler process, I'm going to try to mark my spoiler scope a little better going forward since it seems to be a popular request.

Thank you.
I think reasonable request would fit better It felt like it was ignored because the conversation just carried on and wasn't address two days later. I'm not trying be all drama, it's just that with the TV series being out now, and very popular, it has brought in new people to read the books for the first time. I know that back to the GG days this book series has been a very popular topic, and I can certainly understand veterans of the series would want to talk about stuff that happens later. I'm not saying not do that, I'm just requesting that we do it in a manner that doesn't ruin it for the newcomers.

Other than having a 2nd thread, I think this is the best compromise, by giving a small label/warning what the spoiler may be.

All I know, is that I'm loving both the tv and the books. It's a nice compliment to each other.

[Zaxxon]

It felt like it was ignored because the conversation just carried on and wasn't address two days later. I'm not trying be all drama, it's just that with the TV series being out now, and very popular, it has brought in new people to read the books for the first time. I know that back to the GG days this book series has been a very popular topic, and I can certainly understand veterans of the series would want to talk about stuff that happens later. I'm not saying not do that, I'm just requesting that we do it in a manner that doesn't ruin it for the newcomers.

No problem. I agree it's a nice compromise. The reason I suggested otherwise at first is that I thought we had something like 90% of our participants having read all the books. It seems that guesstimate was off by a fair amount.

As for things not being addressed, there's been a lot going on in this thread. Seems like most of the stuff I'm posting doesn't get much of a response.

Perhaps I'm posting too much.

[Jag]

As for things not being addressed, there's been a lot going on in this thread. Seems like most of the stuff I'm posting doesn't get much of a response.

Perhaps I'm posting too much.

Or just reiterating what others have already said

[Odin]

As for things not being addressed, there's been a lot going on in this thread. Seems like most of the stuff I'm posting doesn't get much of a response.

Perhaps I'm posting too much.

I wouldn't say so. For my part, I generally agree with what you're saying, or I'd chime in to point out your clear and egregious errors, as is my way.

I want to give the latest episode a second watching sometime, but my kids are home on spring break all week so there isn't really much opportunity to do so. Hopefully I'll feel as you did and enjoy it more the second go-around.

[TiLT]

In a rare move, HBO has released the Season 3 show opening / credits already.

That was cute. Did those three do an audio commentary for the full season? Because, there really were parts of their own show that they probably shouldn't have watched.

They did audio commentary for one episode (#3 I think).

[Carpet_pissr]

Am I to understand that spoiler tagging is not enough for those who haven't read the books? Because the itch to click on that spoiler is too much to bear, even knowing that it will likely ruin surprises? Come on...

Surely one firewall is enough?

[naednek]

Am I to understand that spoiler tagging is not enough for those who haven't read the books? Because the itch to click on that spoiler is too much to bear, even knowing that it will likely ruin surprises? Come on...

Surely one firewall is enough?

I think you are missing the point. Since this thread is about Season 2 of the TV series, one would assume that anything that is spoilered is regarding the TV series up to the point of the season. When someone posts a spoiler about a future event from the book, without any kind of warning that it's not regarding the TV show, that is when it sucks.

I myself got screwed when someone did that in Season 1 when they said in the unlabeled and not related to Season 1 spoiler that... BOOK 3 SPOILER ALERT

Spoiler:

Robb Stark had been killed later on in the series. That ruined it for me, because for the next two books, I knew that he was going to die, and when it did happen, I lost that moment of surprise

So I hope that becomes clear to you why it's a reasonable request, and it's really not a hindrance to people who want to talk about future events from the TV series by giving more of a warning.

[Isgrimnur]

Not trying to be an ass, but I don't believe that your spoiler is clearly labelled enough to prevent someone else from experiencing the same issue.

[Qantaga]

Not trying to be an ass, but I don't believe that your spoiler is clearly labelled enough to prevent someone else from experiencing the same issue.

Agreed.

I guess you're (naednek) just hoping to pay it forward.

[naednek]

Not trying to be an ass, but I don't believe that your spoiler is clearly labelled enough to prevent someone else from experiencing the same issue.

Agreed.

I guess you're (naednek) just hoping to pay it forward.

No, I wasn't trying to a jerk and get my revenge, thank you very much. I thought what I had originally wrote was enough of a warning, but after seeing what Isgrimnur pointed out, it made me realize that it wasn't clear enough. I edited my post to make sure people don't mistakenly fall into the same trap that I did. Mind you, I don't think the person who spoiled it for me last year, did it on purpose.

I deeply apologize if someone managed to get spoiled in the short time since I edited my post with a clearer warning.

Anyways, lets move on from this, and get back to what an awesome series this show is becoming.

[cheeba]

OK I really don't understand why you guys insist on describing the details of that spoiler, especially given that you can just call the event in that spoiler by its proper name which does not really spoil anything.

That is a HUGE FUCKING SPOILER. And there's no need for it. So stop it.

[Odin]

OK I really don't understand why you guys insist on describing the details of that spoiler, especially given that you can just call the event in that spoiler by its proper name which does not really spoil anything.

That is a HUGE FUCKING SPOILER. And there's no need for it. So stop it.

I'd agree that taking extreme precautions with that spoiler is probably warranted. After the fate of Ned Stark, it's probably the biggest shock in the entire series of novels to date, and I'm sure I wouldn't have enjoyed it nearly as much if I'd known it was coming.

Also, I'm really, really, really, REALLY looking forward to seeing it acted out in the TV show.

[Exodor]

Game of Spoilers


Sunday can't come soon enough.

[Jag]

I try to stay away from posting some of THE MASSIVE FUCKING SPOILERS from the books, but as for Watchers (as opposed to Readers), it's a risk you are going to face when reading this thread.

And just so people know, if you quote a post with a [spoiler], the post will reveal the spoiler to you in the draft form, so take care doing that as well.

[Ralph-Wiggum]

Does anyone know when HBO Go shows pop up online? Will the new GoT's episode be available to watch Sunday night or will it not be online until Monday?

[Zaxxon]

Does anyone know when HBO Go shows pop up online? Will the new GoT's episode be available to watch Sunday night or will it not be online until Monday?

Immediately.

[Exodor]

Does anyone know when HBO Go shows pop up online? Will the new GoT's episode be available to watch Sunday night or will it not be online until Monday?

It was available when I got to my hotel room at 2 AM this past Monday morning.

[Zaxxon]

It becomes available the minute they start airing on HBO.

[Ralph-Wiggum]

It becomes available the minute they start airing on HBO.

Sweet. Sunday night watch party it is!

[Toe]

I know there's a lot of back-and-forth about how to properly post spoilers, what should be spoiled, etc. and I hate to add to it... but in my opinion Toe you should redo your spoiler above and simply mention the event by name. There's no reason to add the second part. Folks familiar with the story know will know what you're talking about... those who aren't will have a significant moment in the story spoiled for no good reason.

Actually there was a reason for the second part. I was trying to predict (and perhaps invoke further discussion on) how they would divide book 3 (and what the possible season 3 cliffhanger would be like).

[Zaxxon]

You folks may appreciate this...

[Exodor]

And yes, Maisie Williams rocks.

Maisie rocks and is a real gem in this show. Her biggest problem right now is that she's developing a woman's body, which means we have to suspend disbelief a bit in the series. They've tried their best to make her look like a boy this season, but you can still see that she's got breasts, and

You must be sitting a HELL of a lot closer to the screen than I am.

Agreed. I didn't see any breasts on that little girl.

I rewatched the episode last night with the HBOGO extras and noticed this too:

[Odin]

I just took that to be the way her jerkin is laying. I'd need to see a current pic of Maisie wearing something a bit more form-fitting before I could chalk that up to boobage.

[Odin]

Holy fast-forward, Batman. I'm not complaining, really, but boy did they jump through Arya's travels in a big damn hurry. The death of Lommy Greenhands was spot-on, though. Completely awesome. As usual, Tyrion's machinations in the Red Keep stole the show. I'd say this might have been my favorite episode of the season so far (possibly because they got some f'ing combat going as a nice change of pace).

Margaery Tyrell is about as far from how I pictured her as could be. Well, no, but she definitely doesn't come off as the sweet, young, innocent girl that she's portrayed in the novels. I suppose it's a factor of the general aging of most of the younger characters plus the fact that they wanted to show her boobs. They were nice boobs, so I guess I'll let it slide.

The scene with Arya handing the axe up through the cage to Jaqen H'ghar was over so fast I missed it the first time through and had to back-up my TiVo to catch it.

[Skinypupy]

i actually liked the way they overtly portayed Margaery as being smarter and more cunning than the pawn people assume her to be. That was always hinted at in the books, and they handled It very well here.

I had my doubts when I saw he actress chosen to play Brienne, but she's absolutely perfect. They could have made her a tad uglier, but otherwise she's spot on.

[Zaxxon]

This is my favorite episode of the season so far, too. I thought it was very close to perfect. I'm not spoilering anything here because I don't think I'm giving anything away past what was aired tonight, but if you're sensitive from Spoilergate 2012, beware.

Brienne: Yes.

Margaery: Agree with Skinypupy. It was a scene that wasn't in the books, but I think it fits both characters very well.

Amory Lorch attack: Handled differently from the book, but the key points--Arya helping Jaquen, Yoren being a badass, and Lommy's death--were perfect.

Theon: Loving his arc so far.

Tyrion's testing of Pycelle/Varys/Littlefinger: Greatly compressed compared to the books, but handled perfectly for the screen. Loved it.

If I had to list complaints, they would be:

1) that Asha^Z^Z^Z^ZYara has a stick slightly too far up her ass. She's a badass in the books yes, but she's also more playful and outgoing than she seems on the show so far.

2) That Shae's scenes aren't very well-done. Her complaining doesn't seem nearly as constant in the books, and her relationship with Tyrion is fleshed out much better in the books. If all I had to go on was the show, I'd be wondering why the heck Tyrion is taking risks to keep her with him.

[Koz]

Yeah Asha/Yara is nothing like how I pictured her in the books, from looks to general personality and mannerisms. I don't necessarily dislike the one on the show, but it's hard to relate the two in my mind.

[Odin]

Agreed about both Asha/Yara and Shae. Asha's almost a pirate (well, technically she IS a pirate, but in the books she's got more of that swashbuckler kind of attitude). In fact, almost everything interesting has been stripped from Pyke. What they have done instead is flesh out Baelon a bit more, which is probably for the best, but it's a shame that we get stuck with bitchy and boring Yara instead of playful and exciting Asha.

As for Shae, you think they'd at least show the two of them screwing once in a while or something. Literally ALL she does is bitch, and the scene with her and Sansa was dull at best. It certainly does beg the question why Tyrion bothers to keep her around.

[dedewhale]

I for one really liked the episode and was stricken how pretty Maegery and Sanza looked in the episode.

I am glad the compressed the Arya stuff....it was incredibly tedious in the books. I hope that's how the handle a few story lines later from the books because I think Martin really got lost during them and needs help getting back on track.

I said it during season 1 before I read the books, that I think the TV series is better than the books. And now that I have read the books, season 2 still better executed than the books (so far).

[Ralph-Wiggum]

SNL on why there's so much nudity in the show.

[Toe]

I agree with the others in that this was a great episode pretty much all the way around, other than Shae. She seems to lower the quality of any scene she is in (where she has dialogue). I have not giving up on Yara. She really has not had much dialogue to shine yet, so all it will take is a bad-ass scene or two and she should be able to bring her character more in line with the books. Regardless, best show on TV by a mile.

[Odin]

SNL on why there's so much nudity in the show.

That explains a LOT!!

[Zaxxon]

Bathroom break!

[Skinypupy]

I agree with the others in that this was a great episode pretty much all the way around, other than Shae. She seems to lower the quality of any scene she is in (where she has dialogue).

Agreed. She's the one casting that I think they really whiffed on. She's not that pretty (from the books, I had pictured her looking more like Morena Baccarin in Firefly) and can't act worth a lick, especially when paired with Dinklage.

Remind me of something from the books (they all kind of run together for me):

Spoiler:

Does Dany meet up with Belwas and get the Unsullied in this season or the next?

[Zaxxon]

Spoiler:

Book 3.

[MonkeyFinger]

Was wondering if I was mis-remembering something in the scene with Theon when he 'embraces' the Drowned God. I thought there was more to it than just pouring some sea water on his head. Aren't people actually drowned and then revived? Isn't that part of "what was dead can never die but rises again harder and stronger"?