[Movie] The Avengers are rockin'

[Fretmute]

I saw this last week. I thought it was good, but weaker than some of the other movies in its own series, particularly in the way that it ends.

Hopefully the next one will be better when they're forced to flesh out the bad guy.

[Hyena]

Wife and I saw it Saturday. She loved it. I thought she pulled a gut muscle after

Spoiler:

Hulk used Loki like a ragdoll whack-a-mole.

I still chuckle when I think of that scene. One of the best superhero movies I have seen in a loooong time.

[Lordnine]

I really wasn’t all that excited to see it but found it highly enjoyable. All my complaints are pretty minor and probably wouldn’t matter to most people.

- Super jumping Hulk looks silly.
- Samuel Jackson gave the worst performance of the movie.
- Psychopathic Hulk turned into nice Hulk too easily without enough justification.
- None of the heroes were brutalized enough which makes the conflict rather one sided and uninvolving.

I was impressed that both Thor and Iron Man were actually toned down in their abilities from their own movies. Overall I would give it a very favorable 8/10.

[hepcat]

I think we've had this discussion before, but Hulk has been able to jump really high for ages...

[Chaosraven]

- Psychopathic Hulk turned into nice Hulk too easily without enough justification.

Did you see the Norton "Incredible Hulk"?

[Zurai]

I think we've had this discussion before, but Hulk has been able to jump really high for ages...

Hulk can jump into orbit.

[Chaosraven]

I think we've had this discussion before, but Hulk has been able to jump really high for ages...

Hulk can jump into orbit.

Leaping/Jumping Ability
The Hulks's leg muscles are augmented so much that the Hulk can travel miles in a single casual jump. Jumping is the standard mode of transportation for the less intelligent incarnations of the Hulk. The Hulk has been known to make it into the earth's atmosphere on a single leap. Given the strength of the leap and the angle of trajectory when landing, the Hulk can create large craters and limited seismic activity when landing.

[Asharak]

- Samuel Jackson gave the worst performance of the movie.

On the other hand:

Spoiler:

"It was a stupid-ass decision and therefore I'm choosing to ignore it" (or whatever the line was) cracked me up. I really want that on a bumper-sticker.

- Ash

[Jaymon]

I have to answer about a plot issue that has been brought up several times concerning the Hulk.

Seriously, this is a major plot point, don't continue if you haven't seen the movie.

Spoiler:

When Loki is aboard the helicarrier, his purpose is to sow dissent among the heroes, and specifically enrage The Hulk.
He is radiating magic through his staff, which the heroes have in the room with them, in order to turn them against each other.
It was already determined that the staff radiates a gamma wavelength. Banner is affected more so than the other, specifically because of the gamma connection, you can see that he actually picks up the staff, which undoubtedly increases the affect against him.

When the Hulk finally comes, he is Enraged, and not just a standard enraged. He has been affected by a magic spell to make him Enraged, and it obviously stacks with his natural tendencies.


Later, during the final battle, when Hulk comes it is not due to pain, or danger, or rage. He has been invited, and when he comes, he is accepted, made welcome, invited to participate as an equal, and given an acceptable outlet for his destruction. Those are all classic ways of overcoming and deflecting outward anger shown by violent people. And, for possibly the very first time, somebody wants him to smash.

[hepcat]

I'm not sure we share the same definition of "major".

[gbasden]

JeffV was (hopefully still is even in absentee-ism) a friend of ours from the Chicago area that was famed on here for disliking things. Sometimes it seemed he disliked everything. In real life I found him to be a very engaging and generous person and think we are all poorer for his departure but I wish him well and hope that life is treating him wonderfully.

I think that most of the grief directed at JeffV was good natured and meant in fun. Jeff (and LawBeef!) were extremely gracious to me when I visited Chicago and Jeff went well out of his way to help me out with my logistics. I too am sad he's no longer hanging out around here.

[gbasden]

I have to answer about a plot issue that has been brought up several times concerning the Hulk.

Seriously, this is a major plot point, don't continue if you haven't seen the movie.

Spoiler:

When Loki is aboard the helicarrier, his purpose is to sow dissent among the heroes, and specifically enrage The Hulk.
He is radiating magic through his staff, which the heroes have in the room with them, in order to turn them against each other.
It was already determined that the staff radiates a gamma wavelength. Banner is affected more so than the other, specifically because of the gamma connection, you can see that he actually picks up the staff, which undoubtedly increases the affect against him.

When the Hulk finally comes, he is Enraged, and not just a standard enraged. He has been affected by a magic spell to make him Enraged, and it obviously stacks with his natural tendencies.


Later, during the final battle, when Hulk comes it is not due to pain, or danger, or rage. He has been invited, and when he comes, he is accepted, made welcome, invited to participate as an equal, and given an acceptable outlet for his destruction. Those are all classic ways of overcoming and deflecting outward anger shown by violent people. And, for possibly the very first time, somebody wants him to smash.

I was just going to post this.

Spoiler:

As they were arguing, you could see the blue crystal on the staff pulsing. It seemed that Loki was using his mind control abilities to push the group apart, which easily explains why Hulk loses control.

[Odin]

I have to answer about a plot issue that has been brought up several times concerning the Hulk.

Seriously, this is a major plot point, don't continue if you haven't seen the movie.

Spoiler:

When Loki is aboard the helicarrier, his purpose is to sow dissent among the heroes, and specifically enrage The Hulk.
He is radiating magic through his staff, which the heroes have in the room with them, in order to turn them against each other.
It was already determined that the staff radiates a gamma wavelength. Banner is affected more so than the other, specifically because of the gamma connection, you can see that he actually picks up the staff, which undoubtedly increases the affect against him.

When the Hulk finally comes, he is Enraged, and not just a standard enraged. He has been affected by a magic spell to make him Enraged, and it obviously stacks with his natural tendencies.


Later, during the final battle, when Hulk comes it is not due to pain, or danger, or rage. He has been invited, and when he comes, he is accepted, made welcome, invited to participate as an equal, and given an acceptable outlet for his destruction. Those are all classic ways of overcoming and deflecting outward anger shown by violent people. And, for possibly the very first time, somebody wants him to smash.

Well I'll be damned. I did not realize ANY of that. Too subtle for me, I suppose. Anyway, thanks - that really does clear things up quite a bit, despite the fact that I wasn't really bothered by my ignorance.

[Lordnine]

Leaping/Jumping Ability
The Hulks's leg muscles are augmented so much that the Hulk can travel miles in a single casual jump. Jumping is the standard mode of transportation for the less intelligent incarnations of the Hulk. The Hulk has been known to make it into the earth's atmosphere on a single leap. Given the strength of the leap and the angle of trajectory when landing, the Hulk can create large craters and limited seismic activity when landing.

Just because there is an explanation in the lore for something doesn’t make it any less silly to watch or more desirable. It’s like I’ve heard that Thor could technically destroy a whole planet but why would you ever want to show or make a plot point of that? Godlike beings are less interesting than non-godlike beings because the only way you can create obstacles for them (plot) is by introducing convoluted reasons as to why they can’t use their powers. That or you rely on the crutch of introducing other increasingly powerful god like beings to fight, which in turn overshadows any non-god in the movie. While wholly enjoyable you don’t need to look further than the Avengers to see this. Black Widow and Hawkeye could have been left out of the movie entirely and nothing would have really changed.

Pretty much this.

[Isgrimnur]

The Hulk has been known to make it into the earth's atmosphere on a single leap.

I'm pretty sure I can do that, too. Let me check.

...

...

Yup. I jumped and I can make it into the earth's atmosphere as well. Sweet.

[Odin]

The Hulk has been known to make it into the earth's atmosphere on a single leap.

I'm pretty sure I can do that, too. Let me check.


Yup. I jumped and I can make it into the earth's atmosphere as well. Sweet.

Ha!

[Austin]

Good news! My wife has had a GI problem since January, and since nothing has cleared it up we have to so to South Africa for further testing. Movie Theatre with Avengers! (lemonade)

[hentzau]

Good news! My wife has had a GI problem since January, and since nothing has cleared it up we have to so to South Africa for further testing. Movie Theatre with Avengers! (lemonade)

[Chaosraven]

The Hulk has been known to make it into the earth's atmosphere on a single leap.

I'm pretty sure I can do that, too. Let me check.

...

...

Yup. I jumped and I can make it into the earth's atmosphere as well. Sweet.

*snort* I didn't even read the whole blurb

[hepcat]

Just because there is an explanation in the lore for something doesn’t make it any less silly to watch or more desirable. Godlike beings are less interesting than non-godlike beings because the only way you can create obstacles for them (plot) is by introducing convoluted reasons as to why they can’t use their powers.

When I think of "godlike" the last thing that pops into my head is "the ability to jump really high!". I would love to see some church utilize that belief though. During their version of Mass they could all just rise and work on their standing long jumps.

I think powerful beings in comics are perfectly fine as long as they still have that touch of humanity and a weakness. For me, Superman is the pinnacle of the godlike superhero...but he's limited by the fact that he was raised by ma and pa Kent and they instilled in him his greatest limitation (and sometimes his greatest strength) - humanity. Check out Marvel Man (or Miracle Man in the states) as well as Irredeemable(not as good as the other, imho) for a great variation on the superman mythos and what happens when that humanity is missing or compromised.

Hulk has his weaknesses - his rage (also a strength though) and his human self, Thor has his - his brother Loki and his arrogance (at least in his solo movie), and Iron Man has his - alcohol in the second movie as well as a personality that sometimes hinders his ability to be taken seriously/trusted.

Those may not seem too great, but a good writer plays off them. I think for the most part, Whedon did so successfully in The Avengers.

But I do agree that Black Widow and Hawkeye did not fit. Their inclusion is my biggest issue with the movie. I know they were in the comics, but in that environment their actions seem far more "super" to me.

[gameoverman]

To me the whole point of superheroes is they are godlike beings. That fact is sort of what drives the stories. Even Batman, with no extra powers per se, has abilities far beyond the normal human, via his tech and money. But they still have problems, haha.

So if the Hulk can jump into the atmosphere in one leap, good for him. I'm sure someday a power like that may actually be relevant, meanwhile he has to deal with everyday life like the rest of us.

[Odin]

But I do agree that Black Widow and Hawkeye did not fit. Their inclusion is my biggest issue with the movie. I know they were in the comics, but in that environment their actions seem far more "super" to me.

When I watched the trailer, I remember complaining here that Black Widow loading her little peashooter seemed really incongruous with the level of physical and even magical awesomeness that was standing all around her. She seemed kind of irrelevant. I was told she's a super-awesome secret agent and fit in just fine. I took that under advisement and figured I'd wait and see.

Ultimately, I think BW and Hawkeye were fine. Hawkeye wasn't even on the team through much of the movie, but he still got his job done expertly. During the final battle, he seemed to be knocking the bad guys down fast enough to keep up with the big boys.

Black Widow did continue to seem a little under-powered at the end. She managed to hitch a ride on a flying jetski, but she didn't really accomplish much while she was on it. She was, however, able to work with the scientist guy to help actually end the whole portal thingie, so she managed to have an impactful and important role nonetheless. It actually might have seemed kind of wasteful to have one of the "powerful guys" running around fetching Loki's staff.

Still, most of her best scenes by far were when she was facing off against humans and/or being interrogated (which you wouldn't normally think of as a terribly useful skill), and if she continues to be in Avengers movies without some sort of super-serum, they're going to need to continue to find ways for her to beat regular people up.

Bottom line for me - she was okay in this movie, but definitely felt underpowered at the end.

[Isgrimnur]

I think powerful beings in comics are perfectly fine as long as they still have that touch of humanity and a weakness. For me, Superman is the pinnacle of the godlike superhero...but he's limited by the fact that he was raised by ma and pa Kent and they instilled in him his greatest limitation (and sometimes his greatest strength) - humanity. Check out Marvel Man (or Miracle Man in the states) as well as Irredeemable(not as good as the other, imho) for a great variation on the superman mythos and what happens when that humanity is missing or compromised.

How about just cutting out the extraneous stuff and reading Superman: Red Son?

[hepcat]

Even in that tale Supes still has moral center provided by his Russian parents. It's a nice alternate earth story, but it's not really a deconstruction of the superman mythos and his core character, imho.

[DD*]

Based on the end of movie teaser, the Avengers are going to need all the "godlike" beings they can scrape up for round 2!

Spoiler:

And they might want to see if they can enlist a certain shiny board-rider as well!

[Odin]

Based on the end of movie teaser, the Avengers are going to need all the "godlike" beings they can scrape up for round 2!

Spoiler:

And they might want to see if they can enlist a certain shiny board-rider as well!

I just want to see the Human Torch and Captain America in the same movie.

[Jaymon]

When I think of "godlike" the last thing that pops into my head is "the ability to jump really high!". I would love to see some church utilize that belief though. During their version of Mass they could all just rise and work on their standing long jumps.

Another wish granted by the power of Sci-Fi

Jack Vance Emphyrio

The story concerns a young man in the city of Ambroy (on the planet Halma) named Ghyl Tarvoke. Ghyl is the son of Amiante Tarvoke, a rather unconventional inhabitant of Ambroy. Amiante is a master carver of wooden screens, one of the handmade products that Ambroy exports to the rest of the Galaxy, but he is rather solitary, and does not produce especially many screens, and does not participate in the religious rituals of Ambroy, which involve intricate leaping (saltation).

[Brian]

Finally saw this.

Now I want shawarma.

[Odin]

Thought this was pretty cool - a timeline of events leading up to The Avengers.



Click twice to fully embiggen.

[MHS]

I have to answer about a plot issue that has been brought up several times concerning the Hulk.

Seriously, this is a major plot point, don't continue if you haven't seen the movie.

Spoiler:

When Loki is aboard the helicarrier, his purpose is to sow dissent among the heroes, and specifically enrage The Hulk.
He is radiating magic through his staff, which the heroes have in the room with them, in order to turn them against each other.
It was already determined that the staff radiates a gamma wavelength. Banner is affected more so than the other, specifically because of the gamma connection, you can see that he actually picks up the staff, which undoubtedly increases the affect against him.

When the Hulk finally comes, he is Enraged, and not just a standard enraged. He has been affected by a magic spell to make him Enraged, and it obviously stacks with his natural tendencies.


Later, during the final battle, when Hulk comes it is not due to pain, or danger, or rage. He has been invited, and when he comes, he is accepted, made welcome, invited to participate as an equal, and given an acceptable outlet for his destruction. Those are all classic ways of overcoming and deflecting outward anger shown by violent people. And, for possibly the very first time, somebody wants him to smash.

Well I'll be damned. I did not realize ANY of that. Too subtle for me, I suppose. Anyway, thanks - that really does clear things up quite a bit, despite the fact that I wasn't really bothered by my ignorance.

It reminded me a lot of the scene in LotR: FotR where they are in Rivendell and arguing about the fate of the ring. Very similar vibe, so I thought it was very intentionally done to show the sowing of dissension amongst them.

[Odin]

It reminded me a lot of the scene in LotR: FotR where they are in Rivendell and arguing about the fate of the ring. Very similar vibe, so I thought it was very intentionally done to show the sowing of dissension amongst them.

See, I saw that scene and said to myself, "Geez, they're all kind of assholes in their own way." I thought they were just showing how these guys - who had each been a big deal in their own right - were working through their egos so they could gel as a team. It never ever occurred to me that Loki was spurring them on through his scepter. I didn't even know what to think when Banner ended up with it in his hand - I just figured he was stressing out and it was making him go a little hulky or something. I like this explanation better.

[pr0ner]

I have to answer about a plot issue that has been brought up several times concerning the Hulk.

Seriously, this is a major plot point, don't continue if you haven't seen the movie.

Spoiler:

When Loki is aboard the helicarrier, his purpose is to sow dissent among the heroes, and specifically enrage The Hulk.
He is radiating magic through his staff, which the heroes have in the room with them, in order to turn them against each other.
It was already determined that the staff radiates a gamma wavelength. Banner is affected more so than the other, specifically because of the gamma connection, you can see that he actually picks up the staff, which undoubtedly increases the affect against him.

When the Hulk finally comes, he is Enraged, and not just a standard enraged. He has been affected by a magic spell to make him Enraged, and it obviously stacks with his natural tendencies.


Later, during the final battle, when Hulk comes it is not due to pain, or danger, or rage. He has been invited, and when he comes, he is accepted, made welcome, invited to participate as an equal, and given an acceptable outlet for his destruction. Those are all classic ways of overcoming and deflecting outward anger shown by violent people. And, for possibly the very first time, somebody wants him to smash.

Well I'll be damned. I did not realize ANY of that. Too subtle for me, I suppose. Anyway, thanks - that really does clear things up quite a bit, despite the fact that I wasn't really bothered by my ignorance.

It reminded me a lot of the scene in LotR: FotR where they are in Rivendell and arguing about the fate of the ring. Very similar vibe, so I thought it was very intentionally done to show the sowing of dissension amongst them.

Really? Unless someone got up to go to the bathroom when

Spoiler:

Black Widow was interrogating Loki

I have no idea how anyone could be baffled by what happened there.

[Exodor]

Finally saw it today. It was good but there's no way it could live up to the hype. Downey Jr.'s Iron Man was by far my favorite (although Scarlett ran a close second). Captain America is just dull and Loki was kind of hokey.


I debated but ended up bringing not-quite-7 Elise along with me. I was concerned that it would be too violent or intense for her but she was fine.

Unfortunately she declared afterward that "she's just not into super hero movies."




I have failed as a parent.

[Odin]

Finally saw it today. It was good but there's no way it could live up to the hype.

I know exactly what you mean, because that's happened to me several times with movies I was super-excited about. I was extremely glad to dodge that bullet on this one.

I debated but ended up bringing not-quite-7 Elise along with me. I was concerned that it would be too violent or intense for her but she was fine.

Unfortunately she declared afterward that "she's just not into super hero movies."

I have failed as a parent.

My daughter had no interest in seeing it (or any of the preceding Marvel movies, for that matter), either. Luckily my boys have more than picked up the slack. None of my kids will read comics, though. Can't figure that out - they love to read, but won't touch a comic book.

[gbasden]

I just took my wife and 8 year old boy to see it today, and they both loved it.

Poor Elise. Maybe the geek gene will rub off eventually.

[Austin]

South Africa trip confirmed. Tomorrow is my birthday, and we'll be in civilization, with a movie theatre, with 3D! Not that I really care much about 3D, but it's a good sign that that the theatre will be quality. (Oh, and we're hoping to get my wife's health stuff fixed up too, so that would be nice as well. )

[hepcat]

South Africa trip confirmed. Tomorrow is my birthday, and we'll be in civilization, with a movie theatre, with 3D! Not that I really care much about 3D, but it's a good sign that that the theatre will be quality. (Oh, and we're hoping to get my wife's health stuff fixed up too, so that would be nice as well. )

When you get back to your village, reenact the movie using hand puppets for the local children.

[Austin]

Puppets? Try Cosplay! I knew saving these underoos would come in handy!

[Moat_Man]

In the theater with my 11 old daughter. She wanted to see it! I'll let you know what we think after it's over.

[Rumpy]

Saw this tonight. Loved every minute of it. Even had people in the theatre cheer at certain points. Don't have very many complaints about this movie, other than the fact that I felt they did far too little with Bruce Banner and the Hulk. Felt like he had been gone for too long and took forever to regroup. Even stayed at the end of the credits... heheh funny stuff.