The Empire Strikes Back - Empire Victory

[Qantaga]

My patience is a little worn at this point. If we assume redrun was special and we run up purge and trust him for now and we run up grund and trust him for now then the hell with it. I'm Wedge, the most imperial looking of the specials and I'm not sure I care where it goes. While I'm a fair to middlin' useful good guy

Ack. I understand that you're bored, but (as Austin mentions) this revelation only benefits Evil at this point of the game. I'm hoping this is a spoof, because otherwise it gives away one of our key advantages.

[Qantaga]

Unagi, getting frustrated, runs up to Qantaga and shouts, "Die you Imperial scum!" He holds his hand forward and Qantaga slowly rises out of his chair and starts to make a choking sound. Then Qantaga looks at Unagi and says, "seriously dude, what delusions of grandeur do you have to expect that to really work?"

Unagi frustrated beyond the pale, jumps on Qantaga and tries to strangle him by hand. He is quickly pulled off by Jow and Coopasonic. The day continues.

My heart skipped a beat reading this. Seeing a bb2112 writeup, I thought I had been force choked again.

[Scoop20906]

seriously. He called me 'good'.

Yeah, I meant it too.

I remember that game with me, you, Stessier and Qantaga at the end game. Stessier turned on me and the type of attack totally proved to me anyway that he was the final baddie. However you got so fixated on this crazy possibility that Qantaga was the final baddie and that consumed your thinking because you wanted it to be true even though I was standing firm against your theory.

Your posting this game reminds me alot of that game and it makes me feel that you are a reb. I think an Imp Unagi would be alot more guarded in his accusation and hair-brained theories.

[Qantaga]

He is usually a much more active participant in these games.

This is completely manufactured. For all the pages of text in this game, we're still in Day 2. I am not out of character for a WW game (good or evil).

I may or may not be Evil, but activity has nothing to do with my alignment.

[Qantaga]

His post yesterday reiterating his desire to point the finger at Lagom seemed...stretching.

What do you know that makes you think Lagom being Evil is a stretch?

[Chaosraven]

You can interpret my 'lists' any way you want. I just note and see if anything pops out at me.

[Remus West]

My patience is a little worn at this point. If we assume redrun was special and we run up purge and trust him for now and we run up grund and trust him for now then the hell with it. I'm Wedge, the most imperial looking of the specials and I'm not sure I care where it goes. While I'm a fair to middlin' useful good guy

Ack. I understand that you're bored, but (as Austin mentions) this revelation only benefits Evil at this point of the game. I'm hoping this is a spoof, because otherwise it gives away one of our key advantages.

I could not disagree with this more. LordMortis was under speculation as Evil - at least from me and I do not think I was alone there. By coming forward the same time we have a "scanner" come forward he has his only chance of being verified. If he had waited until he was at the edge of being lynched what could we do? He would be sitting there saying "I'm not going to get killed at night but I'm a Rebel. All n-1 of you please pull back."

We would have to lynch him.

That said, I don't think we actually have a scanner available right now. Grundbegriff has played this almost exactly the same way he did as evil last game. He dropped a hint. He backed away from making a specific claim. He then named a questionable player as good. triggercut's "I am Empire" comment makes it very hard for me to over look. Right now I really am having a hard time seeing either of them as Good. Not sure what the best play is with that feeling though. Do we lynch them or push them aside and let time reveal them for certain? I do not believe his claim but still can not think it a good play to lynch and uncontested Seer particularly this early. I think they are playing us.

I also feel like maybe I'm just talking myself into that belief. Seriously though. triggercut posted that he is friggin Empire. He can talk all he wants about how that shouldn't reflect on Grund but if triggercut is Empire than Grund has to be as well. You guys let me live through the "poke the innocent" game. I don't want to be on the flip side of that situation. How are you all past that comment so easily?

I need to go read day 1 again.

[Qantaga]

Seriously though. triggercut posted that he is friggin Empire... How are you all past that comment so easily?

I'm still trying to decide.

If it were any other game, he'd probably already be lynched. However, the flip of the good/evil sides between Star Wars and Empire does have to be factored in.

[Qantaga]

I could not disagree with this more. LordMortis was under speculation as Evil - at least from me and I do not think I was alone there. By coming forward the same time we have a "scanner" come forward he has his only chance of being verified. If he had waited until he was at the edge of being lynched what could we do? He would be sitting there saying "I'm not going to get killed at night but I'm a Rebel. All n-1 of you please pull back."

So, you believe LM?

You didn't mention the spoof aspect in your paragraph above, it sounds like you're putting him as (mostly) trusted. Granted, it would be a dangerous spoof (unless the scanned-then-killed redrun scenario mentioned before occurred), but not out of the realm of possibility.

[Unagi]

I share Remus' view on the triggercut/Grund thing. I'm willing to let it play out for a bit, but there you have it.

I also share his view on the 'LM reveal' (that it was a good idea to do at this time) and I assume LM's view on the LM reveal.

I also believe LM's claim. (if I hadn't made that clear)

I'd still like purge to help kill an imperial - just to get that verified, but that's not under our control really.

[purge]

Offer one up, you must.

[Unagi]

Newcastle - strong feeling he's evil
Scoop - strong feeling he's evil
Qantaga - strong feeling he's evil
Mr Bubbles - Kinda think this may be the time he's evil and I'm correct in thinking it... but - meh, I've indeed wiffed on him a bunch.
Theohall - thought he was good at the start of the game, now I'm starting to feel like he may not be. If I knew RMC was good, that would make me feel Theohall is bad.
Lassr - Honestly, I must say that, to me, Evil Lassr is really hard to detect. He's very steady... kinda getting an evil feeling from him.
Isgrimnur - strong feeling he's playing out of character.
Lagom - Doesn't seem to be doing all that much playing (again), not entirely sure on alignment.
Tru1cy - feeling he's evil, but so very little to go on.
Jow - not sure, once we catch some wolf(s) I'd re look at things.
Warpig - If Qantaga is good - I bet he is evil (but I don't think Qantaga is good)
Austin - was thinking he was good in the start of the game. I've never been too great at finding evil Austin with any accuracy.
Remus - so often when I am good and he is good, I don't agree with much of his thoughts. Not this game, and that's my main point of concern.
coop - I guess I'm not sure with him. Still leaning good (and it's too easy to just think everyone's evil), but LordMortis' opinion on him has given me reason to doubt myself
RMC - I feel he could be evil, but seeing some of the people that wanted to vote for him, and some of the recent exchanges have given me reason to hold that thought, I would like to see how other people align first.

El Guapo - I trust him
Lord Mortis - I trust him

Grund - on hold - (slightly odd play on day 1, declared (flipflopped) trust for triggercut, and condemned purge) - Claimed, uncontested, seer at N-x
triggercut - on hold - Grund claims he's a Rebel, triggercut claims he's Empire.
purge - on hold - planted a million yoda hints, wants to be proven with a hidden vote - but there is only one way that matters.


I wonder how many evil a 22 player game would have.
5 or 6 ? give or take?

[triggercut]

triggercut - on hold - Grund claims he's a Rebel, triggercut claims he's Empire.

I've claimed no such thing.

[Austin]

triggercut - on hold - Grund claims he's a Rebel, triggercut claims he's Empire.

I've claimed no such thing.

[bb2112]

Day 2 Vote

1. Isgrimnur ---------------> Purge, Grundbegriff
2. El Guapo ----------------> Grundbegriff
3. Qantaga ----------------> Lagom Lite, Purge, Lagom Lite
4. RMC ---------------------> Purge, Qantaga
5. Lassr --------------------> El Guapo, Purge, Grundbegriff
6. Mr. Bubbles -------------> Grundbegriff, Purge
7. Coopasonic -------------> Grundbegriff, Unagi
8. Chaosraven -------------> Purge, Purge, Grundbegriff, RMC
9. Remus West ------------> Grundbegriff, Purge, Grundbegriff
10. Scoop20906 ------------>
11. Jow ---------------------> Grundbegriff
12. Grundbegriff ----------> Purge, Theohall, Unagi
13. Theohall ---------------> Grundbegriff, RMC
14. Tru1cy -----------------> Purge
15. Purge ------------------> Unagi, Theohall
16. Lord Mortis -----------> Grundbegriff, Purge, Chaosraven
17. Austin -----------------> Purge, Grundbegriff, Purge, Grundbegriff, Purge,Mr. Bubbles, Grundbegriff, Unagi
18. Unagi ------------------> Purge, Grundbegriff, Purge, Grundbegriff, Triggercut, Chaosraven, Qantaga
19. Triggercut ------------> Purge, Scoop20906, Unagi
20. Newcastle -------------> Purge, Lord Mortis, Unagi
21. Warpig ----------------> Grundbegriff, Qantaga
22. Lagom Lite -----------> Grundbegriff, Purge, Purge, Grundbegriff

4 Unagi <---------------------------- Newcastle, Triggercut, Austin, Coopasonic
3 Qantaga <------------------------- Unagi, RMC, Warpig
2 RMC <----------------------------- Theohall, Chaosraven
1 Chaosraven <--------------------- Lord Mortis
1 Grundbegriff <------------------- Jow
1 Purge <---------------------------- Mr. Bubbles
1 Theohall <------------------------ Purge
1 Lagom Lite <--------------------- Qantaga

No Votes:
8 <------------- Scoop20906, Tru1cy, El Guapo, Lassr, Isgrimnur, Remus West, Lagom Lite, Grundbegriff

Majority is 12

Dead
Day 1 <------------ Stessier - Syringed
Night 1 <---------- Redrun - Garroted

Deadline is May 21st 9PM Eastern

Day: All day actions happen first come first served
Count Dooku: Who will receive your secret vote for a lynch today?
Yoda: Who will receive your secret vote for a lynch today?
Darth Maul: Who will you take with you to the afterlife?
Boba Fett: Who will you protect from the lynch?
Admiral Ackbar: Will you public declare?
Rukh: Who will you assassinate?
Boba Fett: If your scan reveals a Rebel, will you kill the Rebel?
Greedo: Who will you shoot?
Leia Organa: Who will you stun?
Vader: Who will you choke to death?
R2D2: Who will receive your 3 secret votes for a lynch?
C3PO: Will you ask the Mod through PM what role started in the game?
Chewbacca: Who's arms will you tear off?
Han Solo: Will you initiate a block? If so on who?
Grand Admiral Thrawn: Get’s Rebel or Citizen if there is a successful lynch of a Rebel or Citizen.

Anytime:
Rukh: If you have identified Thrawn, you may interrupt any kill on Thrawn and sacrifice yourself instead.
Cad Bane: Name the player you want to disable.
Admiral Ackbar: Did you meet your secret agenda? If so PM the Mod.

[LordMortis]

8 <------------- Scoop20906, Tru1cy, El Guapo, Lassr, Isgrimnur, Remus West, Lagom Lite, Grundbegriff

Coming into the weekend, I do so hope you pipe up and help recreate a playing field.

[purge]

triggercut - on hold - Grund claims he's a Rebel, triggercut claims he's Empire.

I've claimed no such thing.

Fast, Unagi's hand is. Played well, Triggercut has. Hmmm. Indeed.

[purge]

From loudest to quietest, Theohall has become. Believes me AND Grund he does?

[Lassr]

Seriously though. triggercut posted that he is friggin Empire... How are you all past that comment so easily?

I'm still trying to decide.

If it were any other game, he'd probably already be lynched. However, the flip of the good/evil sides between Star Wars and Empire does have to be factored in.

This. Last game the Empire was the good side. So I am still debating what to do also. It we did test triggercut and he is rebel then what do we do about Grund if he survives the night?

[Remus West]

triggercut - on hold - Grund claims he's a Rebel, triggercut claims he's Empire.

I've claimed no such thing.

Fast, Unagi's hand is. Played well, Triggercut has. Hmmm. Indeed.

Bull. He claimed it. He then recinded it after he realized what he had posted. Doesn't make the original post never have happened.

[Remus West]

Seriously though. triggercut posted that he is friggin Empire... How are you all past that comment so easily?

I'm still trying to decide.

If it were any other game, he'd probably already be lynched. However, the flip of the good/evil sides between Star Wars and Empire does have to be factored in.

This. Last game the Empire was the good side. So I am still debating what to do also. It we did test triggercut and he is rebel then what do we do about Grund if he survives the night?

Only last game was not Starwars based at all. The last Starwars game was long ago. Last post-game post in that thread was August 4th. I think 10 months should be enough time to remove lingering effects from that game on a player's mental state.

[purge]

triggercut - on hold - Grund claims he's a Rebel, triggercut claims he's Empire.

I've claimed no such thing.

Fast, Unagi's hand is. Played well, Triggercut has. Hmmm. Indeed.

Bull. He claimed it. He then recinded it after he realized what he had posted. Doesn't make the original post never have happened.

I sense anger in you. Funny, the statement was - "he" points to triggercut and not to Grund as you intended.

[Remus West]

triggercut - on hold - Grund claims he's a Rebel, triggercut claims he's Empire.

I've claimed no such thing.

Fast, Unagi's hand is. Played well, Triggercut has. Hmmm. Indeed.

Bull. He claimed it. He then recinded it after he realized what he had posted. Doesn't make the original post never have happened.

I sense anger in you. Funny, the statement was - "he" points to triggercut and not to Grund as you intended.

Wasn't my comment that used "he" so nothing was as I intended. The meaning of the comment is clear though. Grund claims triggercut is Rebel and triggercut claimed triggercut is Empire.

[Lassr]

Offer one up, you must.

I really can't think of a good way to handle the triggercut/Grund situation today. I'm starting to lean toward letting the night play out and see if the Empire goes after Grund. It is always dangerous to let the seer live even if he isn't believed at first.

So going down list I think Scoop or Lagom is a good test.

 Lagom Lite 
 
He has been eerily quiet for a smooth tongued devil in this game.

[Lassr]

Seriously though. triggercut posted that he is friggin Empire... How are you all past that comment so easily?

I'm still trying to decide.

If it were any other game, he'd probably already be lynched. However, the flip of the good/evil sides between Star Wars and Empire does have to be factored in.

This. Last game the Empire was the good side. So I am still debating what to do also. It we did test triggercut and he is rebel then what do we do about Grund if he survives the night?

Only last game was not Starwars based at all. The last Starwars game was long ago. Last post-game post in that thread was August 4th. I think 10 months should be enough time to remove lingering effects from that game on a player's mental state.

I don't disagree with you. I'm way past that game also but maybe triggercut had some trauma from that game and is having a harder time forgetting.

I would find it hilarious if Grund is trying the same thing as last game and it backfires again.

[Remus West]

I would find it hilarious if Grund is trying the same thing as last game and it backfires again.

It seems to be buying him a day regardless of his "scan" posting that he is Empire.

[Remus West]

Know what? I'm not alright with the comment going unchecked.
 triggercut 
 

[coopasonic]

Know what? I'm not alright with the comment going unchecked.
 triggercut 
 

I'm going back and forth on this. Has anyone really done anything as dumb as unintentionally posting "I am a bad guy"? I mean other than me. "not" gets dropped unconsciously all the time. So was it is his subconscious speaking or just a sloppy mistake?

4 days to get 12 votes on one target starting from nowhere.

[triggercut]

Know what? I'm not alright with the comment going unchecked.
 triggercut 
 

You're either playing badly or you're evil.

Which is it?

[triggercut]

triggercut - on hold - Grund claims he's a Rebel, triggercut claims he's Empire.

I've claimed no such thing.

Fast, Unagi's hand is. Played well, Triggercut has. Hmmm. Indeed.

Bull. He claimed it. He then recinded it after he realized what he had posted. Doesn't make the original post never have happened.

"Claimed" implies that I have somehow maintained that stance.

I have not.

[Remus West]

Know what? I'm not alright with the comment going unchecked.
 triggercut 
 

I'm going back and forth on this. Has anyone really done anything as dumb as unintentionally posting "I am a bad guy"? I mean other than me. "not" gets dropped unconsciously all the time. So was it is his subconscious speaking or just a sloppy mistake?

4 days to get 12 votes on one target starting from nowhere.

Go read his comment again. He did not drop a word; he simply replaced the word he intended with what he was thinking. Also, yes, people have posted things like that before. I once posted that I was "off to poke the innocent" when I meant "silent" but knew that all my compadres were active. That's where that phrase came from.

[Lassr]

Know what? I'm not alright with the comment going unchecked.
 triggercut 
 

The more I thought about this the more I have come to the conclusion that IF we are going to do this then triggercut has to be the target. It's only going to really work out though if triggercut comes back Empire. If he does not then what a mess unless the Empire takes out Grund thus proving him.

I know yesterday I stated that if you think triggercut is Empire then Grund must be Empire so vote for the more dangerous player but if we are wrong...

[LordMortis]

Know what? I'm not alright with the comment going unchecked.
 triggercut 
 

While I don't trust the claims Trig or Grund either and I get your frustration, if you are confident enough to go after trig then you should be confident enough to go after Grund. If you are confident enough to go after Grund then he is more likely to be evil than trig and you should go after Grund.

There should be no way Grund is good if Trig is Evil.
There are possible ways where Trig is good if Grund is Evil.

You know this. So the question is why are you being sloppy? Evil Remus is not sloppy. But Remus trusting me and trusting me enough to suggest that I not be scanned sounds sneaky (by both you and Unagi)

... But at least you are voting and potentially voting your conscience...

Ugh.

It seems to be buying him a day regardless of his "scan" posting that he is Empire.

It always does (and not just for Grund, though he seems to get a better pass than most) and is in no small part why I came forward. If we have two specials who get a pass, then why not three?

[El Guapo]

triggercut - on hold - Grund claims he's a Rebel, triggercut claims he's Empire.

I've claimed no such thing.

Fast, Unagi's hand is. Played well, Triggercut has. Hmmm. Indeed.

Bull. He claimed it. He then recinded it after he realized what he had posted. Doesn't make the original post never have happened.

"Claimed" implies that I have somehow maintained that stance.

I have not.

mmmmm, unless you're using some weird Yoda grammar, no it doesn't. If you say "Hillary Clinton supported the Iraq War" that does not imply that she has maintained the same stance.

Not that this is super important, but there you go.

Anyhow, the big question is "Trigger / Grund" as the lynch (with people generally favoring trig out of that), or...someone else. The trick I'm finding is that I'm not sure who I would pick as an alternative. I guess a quiet like Scoop or tru1cy, but that's basically just picking a silent and hoping that it's silence is due to evil. Lynching Trig or Grund would yield more useful information if it's a miss than lynching a silent.

I'm also with Mortis on Trig vs. Grund. Since if Trig's evil then Grund's evil, Grund's the better target in that scenario, but yeah...lynching our seer.

Hmmm, the dark side clouds things. Or whatever that line from the prequels was. The dark side hides much? Purge, help me out here.

[purge]

Grund is evil or good, then cursed he must be. Last game his blind was scanned and discovered, now today we have a slip. Hmmm.

Two votes I am - yet vote I will not move until we're at 10. If Theohall is tested with both votes, then at N-1 he must be.

[coopasonic]

I'm also with Mortis on Trig vs. Grund. Since if Trig's evil then Grund's evil, Grund's the better target in that scenario, but yeah...lynching our seer.

Hmmm, the dark side clouds things. Or whatever that line from the prequels was. The dark side hides much? Purge, help me out here.

If grund is really our seer they *have* to kill him in the night. Then we get into the "why is grund still alive" issue... I hate the idea of lynching our seer, but also the idea of playing chicken with evil over someone who could be our seer.

trig is a safer lynch, unless he is being set up by grund. Ow my head.

[El Guapo]

Grund is evil or good, then cursed he must be. Last game his blind was scanned and discovered, now today we have a slip. Hmmm.

Two votes I am - yet vote I will not move until we're at 10. If Theohall is tested with both votes, then at N-1 he must be.

Why does Theo need to be at n-1 to be tested by both Yoda votes?

[Remus West]

If triggercut is Evil then Grundbegriff is Evil too. This is true due to Grundbegriff having stated he scanned triggercut as Good.
That said, I do not fear an exposed Evil Grund any more than an exposed Evil anyone. triggercut is the one that openly said he was Evil. Thus I'm voting him. You guys want to swing that over to Grund I'll be happy to vote him too as I think they are both full of it but right now I'm targetting the one I felt I may have a prayer of getting lynched. Voting triggercut is likely spitting in the wind but voting Grund almost certainly would be in my eyes right now. I'm not only voting what I see going on, I am voting where I think I might be able to get a lynch done.

[Remus West]

triggercut - on hold - Grund claims he's a Rebel, triggercut claims he's Empire.

I've claimed no such thing.

Fast, Unagi's hand is. Played well, Triggercut has. Hmmm. Indeed.

Bull. He claimed it. He then recinded it after he realized what he had posted. Doesn't make the original post never have happened.

"Claimed" implies that I have somehow maintained that stance.

I have not.

mmmmm, unless you're using some weird Yoda grammar, no it doesn't. If you say "Hillary Clinton supported the Iraq War" that does not imply that she has maintained the same stance.

Not that this is super important, but there you go.

No, I'm fine with that. triggercut has claimed to be Rebel but since that doesn't mean he has maintained that stance he must have reverted back to claiming Empire and thus needs to be lynched.

[LordMortis]

If grund is really our seer they *have* to kill him in the night. Then we get into the "why is grund still alive" issue... I hate the idea of lynching our seer, but also the idea of playing chicken with evil over someone who could be our seer.

trig is a safer lynch, unless he is being set up by grund. Ow my head.

No, they don't. They have a better idea of when the game ends than we do. Without knowing that they know, I not only think it's probable that they kill him, but quite frankly, I want to do everything in my power to make sure that's what they do. I don't want to have the doubt. They kill grund and at least prove trig.

The idea that Trig is the safe lynch makes no sense to me at all.

trig evil = grund evil.
grund evil <> trig evil.

Lynch trig. if he's good, do you then trust grund, who now has no scans under his belt?

If we're going to deny grund's advice then we kill grund. If we want to see how it goes then we leave them both alone.

Lynching trig is madness.