Crazy code test for job interview (updated)

[zinckiwi]

So I had a phone interview the other day and they mentioned that they'd send a code test my way. No problem, I actually rather enjoy that kind of thing, in the way that I used to enjoy exams (providing I knew the stuff!). The one we administer is a straightforward, 90-minute test of basic algorithm design, but clarity, documentation, etc. are the top priorities.

Then I received this (in image form so Google doesn't index it):



My first reaction was that it was a joke. My second was that it was actually some work they wanted done without having to pay a contractor. Both of those seemed unlikely after a while though. It is for a startup, and I suspect it's designed to cause the precise reaction it did in me -- incredulity -- and cause 90% of the people who receive it to simply not bother. Hey presto, you're left only with the insanely dedicated (or insanely desperate).

Won't tell you yet what I did

[Little Raven]

Holy shit.

[TiLT]

Do not want!

They must really think that the job they're offering is the best thing since sliced bread since they're giving their applicants a task that might take days of hard work. Unless I desperately wanted to work at the place in question, I'd just drop them after seeing something like that. To me it shows that they either A) have way too grand thoughts about their own importance, or B) are going to continue giving you unreasonably large coding tasks with unreasonably short time limits. I prefer less stress with my jobs.

[Odin]

The correct answer is to respond to their RFQ with an dollar-figure and a SOW that they can sign and return if they decide to proceed with this project.

[Peacedog]

I would be happy to complete said test for compensation.

[zinckiwi]

All that is pretty much inline with what I was thinking However... I did it over the weekend.

I skipped all the optional stuff of course (well, I half-did the third one, but just the basic instance setup and package installs). And I couldn't for the life of me figure out how to implement any js in a non-pointless busywork kind of way, so I didn't do that. But I did the rest. I'd already figured I didn't want the job, but I did use it as an excuse to teach myself a few things I hadn't used before. Like... all of it. I'd never used the Facebook API, memcached (manually at least) or Mongo, or set up an EC2 instance before. So at least now I'll be able to say, "oh, yes! Why I did some Facebook integration just last month..." or something.

Needless to say, I built it in a proof-of-concept kind of way that would be nigh useless if they actually intended to use it for real.

[Grundbegriff]

The correct answer is to respond to their RFQ with an dollar-figure and a SOW that they can sign and return if they decide to proceed with this project.

+1

[Isgrimnur]

Yeah, I'd be punching out of that one. Could I do it? Given a week of research and study time, maybe. Would I do it for a prospective employer? Likely not.

[Lordnine]

I’ve worked for people who expect results like that with little to no turnaround time. Unless they are paying you six figures it’s not worth the stress even if you can do the work.

[paulbaxter]

I think they're brilliant. Just have all of their work done by job applicants.

"Hey, let's see how you do on an eight hour shift of phone support before we decide if we want you."

[zinckiwi]

I think they're brilliant. Just have all of their work done by job applicants.

"Hey, let's see how you do on an eight hour shift of phone support before we decide if we want you."

That would indeed be an inspired business model.

[zinckiwi]

Got an offer Hmm.

[Matrix]

Got an offer Hmm.

Question is , what kind of offer.

If i had a job application similar in scope about Seo, or business stuff, i might have done it for similar reason as you did. Just get some experience under my belt. But other then that its crazy request they have.

[zinckiwi]

Got an offer Hmm.

Question is , what kind of offer.

Decent, actually. Not as much as I was asking for but... startup, so stock options.

[Bob]

Got an offer Hmm.

You're probably the only crazy bastard that did it.

[El Guapo]

I gather the main concern given their request is whether they expect crazy quick turnaround like this all the time. By any chance, do you either know anyone at the company (unlikely, I'm guessing) or anyone who knows the company? I'd probably ask around with people you know to see what reputation the firm has, if any. For what it's worth, the fact that you submitted as you described it a functionally useless proof-of-concept, and they were happy enough with it to make an offer, suggests that they would not expect a functional answer within a short time frame.

Also, do you already have a job? If not, I imagine that would factor in considerably.

Oh, and congrats on getting the offer!

[msduncan]

If I could still code, which I can't, I would have walked away by coding something that appeared to be what they wanted, but then displayed a derogatory message about wasting my time.

[zinckiwi]

You're probably the only crazy bastard that did it.

No doubt

A big red fag was that they offered without even checking my references. (I include names and titles on my resume, and they never requested the proper list with contact information.)

[msduncan]

You're probably the only crazy bastard that did it.

No doubt

A big red fag was that they offered without even checking my references. (I include names and titles on my resume, and they never requested the proper list with contact information.)

I'm not sure my company checks references beyond confirming the person actually worked at a place. Most places will only confirm that a person worked there and not give positive or negative feedback.

[El Guapo]

You're probably the only crazy bastard that did it.

No doubt

A big red fag was that they offered without even checking my references. (I include names and titles on my resume, and they never requested the proper list with contact information.)

Whoops! I, uh, would not take that offer.

[LordMortis]

I'm not sure my company checks references beyond confirming the person actually worked at a place.

As far as business references goes I have a vague memory that most places are advised by the legal to only check duration of employment. I used to remember why but that was many years ago.

[IceBear]

People sued for bad references (or at least that was what I was told when I asked HR about giving a reference), so most legal departments will advise against saying anything other than " Yes, he worked here for x duration"

[zinckiwi]

People sued companies for bad refernces, so most legal departments will advise against saying anything other than " Yes, he worked here for x duration"

Wow. That's messed up.

[zinckiwi]

You're probably the only crazy bastard that did it.

No doubt

A big red fag was that they offered without even checking my references. (I include names and titles on my resume, and they never requested the proper list with contact information.)

Whoops! I, uh, would not take that offer.

Hey, I don't judge.

[El Guapo]

I'm just saying that I would not agree to be paid in large red-haired gay men (but do tell them to watch the slurs). Or large red cigarettes, if you're British. But that's your call.

[IceBear]

People sued companies for bad refernces, so most legal departments will advise against saying anything other than " Yes, he worked here for x duration"

Wow. That's messed up.

I think it was something along the lines that the potential employee felt that the person giving the reference had a personal grudge/vendetta and then it went to court and valuable time/money was spent proving it was/wasn't true. Again, it may have never happened, but legal felt it was possible, so they frowned on doing anything other than verifying the person worked there

[zinckiwi]

People sued companies for bad refernces, so most legal departments will advise against saying anything other than " Yes, he worked here for x duration"

Wow. That's messed up.

I think it was something along the lines that the potential employee felt that the person giving the reference had a personal grudge/vendetta and then it went to court and valuable time/money was spent proving it was/wasn't true. Again, it may have never happened, but legal felt it was possible, so they frowned on doing anything other than verifying the person worked there

Lawyers are (largely) pragmatists, so I can't fault them for that. I can fault the possibly-apocryphal idiot who sued to begin with, thereby forcing lawyers' hands. I suppose I could put an indemnification clause on my resume with regards to obtaining references -- I could. But that would look absolutely ridiculous.

[El Guapo]

Plus in my experiences references tend to be fairly useless beyond confirming employment, as it tends not to be difficult to round up three people who will say nice things, even if the employee isn't the greatest.

[LordMortis]

Lawyers are (largely) pragmatists, so I can't fault them for that. I can fault the possibly-apocryphal idiot who sued to begin with, thereby forcing lawyers' hands. I suppose I could put an indemnification clause on my resume with regards to obtaining references -- I could. But that would look absolutely ridiculous.

If I were a vengeful employee who felt slighted when let go and then got a bad reference from an employer that I felt I didn't deserve, I could see myself getting drastic... maybe. I actually I couldn't. I'm too much of a wuss. But I'd like to think that I would.

[IceBear]

Plus in my experiences references tend to be fairly useless beyond confirming employment, as it tends not to be difficult to round up three people who will say nice things, even if the employee isn't the greatest.

That's true. It's possible that the example was the opposite of what I said (actually seems more likely to me now that I think about it). Perhaps someone gave the new company a glowing recommendation of the employee and when they found out he was a screw up and the only reason they hired him was because of the reference they decided to sue the first company for the recommendation. All I can remember was HR saying, legal advises against saying anything in your reference call other than he worked here for 5 years, due to law suits

[zinckiwi]

Plus in my experiences references tend to be fairly useless beyond confirming employment, as it tends not to be difficult to round up three people who will say nice things, even if the employee isn't the greatest.

That's true. It's possible that the example was the opposite of what I said (actually seems more likely to me now that I think about it). Perhaps someone gave the new company a glowing recommendation of the employee and when they found out he was a screw up and the only reason they hired him was because of the reference they decided to sue the first company for the recommendation. All I can remember was HR saying, legal advises against saying anything in your reference call other than he worked here for 5 years, due to law suits

Well, either way -- good to know, guys thanks. Hadn't even occurred to me.

[El Guapo]

At my old firm we called references, but my understanding is that we were one of the few big firms that did. And yeah, generally one could have copy-pasted the responses from any one reference call to another, "Oh, so-and-so is great! You'd be lucky to have him/her! Would definitely hire him/her again." Though one of my friends did find one person who gave a bad reference, out of roughly four years of periodic reference calling, so there's that.

[Odin]

As a hiring manager, I never asked for references and rarely if ever checked the ones I was provided. I trusted myself and my team to weed out anyone dumb enough to provide a reference that wouldn't be glowing.

Likewise, I don't know if I remember my own references ever being checked. I don't think so. Usually, I wasn't even asked for any.

[zinckiwi]

As a hiring manager, I never asked for references and rarely if ever checked the ones I was provided. I trusted myself and my team to weed out anyone dumb enough to provide a reference that wouldn't be glowing.

Likewise, I don't know if I remember my own references ever being checked. I don't think so. Usually, I wasn't even asked for any.

Yet I assume that you would look with pronounced suspicion on someone who declined to offer any. Seems like it's more of a call-my-bluff kind of thing then More about how impressive are the people that you put down, bearing in mind the risk you take by doing so?

[El Guapo]

Sure, if I asked for references and they declined to provide them, I'd figure: (1) maybe they have something to hide; and (2) in any event it's insulting to decline the request when they want to job. Failure to follow instructions is not a good first sign.

[Odin]

Yet I assume that you would look with pronounced suspicion on someone who declined to offer any. Seems like it's more of a call-my-bluff kind of thing then More about how impressive are the people that you put down, bearing in mind the risk you take by doing so?

I can only assume, since this didn't apply to me, but I suppose that if I were the type to ask for references and my request was refused, then I probably wouldn't be too happy.

I should add that while I never formally requested references, I did on several occasions look at a resume and say, "Hey, I know somebody at the company where this guy used to work." Then I'd give that person a call and see what they had to say about the candidate in question.

[gwartok]

People sued companies for bad refernces, so most legal departments will advise against saying anything other than " Yes, he worked here for x duration"

Wow. That's messed up.

Years ago I worked at a Sears where they fired a guy that was caught stealing from the cash register. They were also pressing charges and had video evidence. A few weeks later my manager got a call from one of our sister retail chains. The thief had applied there, used us as a reference, and they were checking up on him. Per HR direction they were told "he worked here for x duration" and nothing else. Guess who was fired and arrested for stealing from their register a few weeks later?

[coopasonic]

People sued companies for bad refernces, so most legal departments will advise against saying anything other than " Yes, he worked here for x duration"

Wow. That's messed up.

Years ago I worked at a Sears where they fired a guy that was caught stealing from the cash register. They were also pressing charges and had video evidence. A few weeks later my manager got a call from one of our sister retail chains. The thief had applied there, used us as a reference, and they were checking up on him. Per HR direction they were told "he worked here for x duration" and nothing else. Guess who was fired and arrested for stealing from their register a few weeks later?

Our HR will also answer "Is this person eligible to work for your company again?" This has been determined to be completely legally defensible and would have helped in that situation.

[GreenGoo]

I can't see the pic while here at work.

Let's see what my phone has to say.

edit: Ok, had a look. Ballsy of them.

[Blackhawk]

Back in '97 I worked on contract for a certain company for about six months. One day, out of the blue, the owner decided he absolutely, bitterly hated me. We had been friendly up to that point, and to this day I have no idea what switch got flipped that made him decide I was so horrible.

Afterwards, I spent over a year dropping off applications, and never received a single offer, anywhere. I had a list of probably 120+ aps I had put in. Then, on a whim, I changed my resume. I changed:

Private Armed Security, [Organization] [Boss's contact info]

to

Armed Contractor [my contact info]

I got offers on two out of the next three applications I sent in.

Anyway, every professional company I've worked for has had the same policy mentioned here. They will answer two questions: 'Did X work for you on these dates,' and 'would you hire X again.'