The Empire Strikes Back - Empire Victory

[Unagi]

Is there anyway we can put folks on ignore who clearly are not helping by repeating the things we have already heard

what were you saying?

[purge]

Is anyone else bothered by Theo's certainty that Trig, Grund and I are Imperial?

The only thing I'm certain of is that I can push an N-1 person over without changing the count - and that includes imperials.

Everything else is guesswork. May the force be with us if Theohall is Mon Mothma. He'll hold his power until the end - when the rebels lose.

[purge]

Is there anyway we can put folks on ignore who clearly are not helping by repeating the things we have already heard

what were you saying?

Where's the high-five emote?

[El Guapo]

I agree that Grund proves himself most likely by:

1. Swinging and having his alignment revealed, or
2. Being killed at night, or
3. Being shot during the day by an Imperial.

As the game stretches out--and it will be a long game--if none of those things happen Grund becomes more and more likely to be a fraud. As the game stretches out, if he cannot deliver us an Imperial to hang, he becomes more and more a fraud.

What I do not understand is the rush to hang him. If he's spoofing the role of Talon Karrde, he'll be found out soon enough. If he's the real deal, the Imperials will at some point be forced into action that proves him and possibly causes one of them to have to fire off a power and also reveal.

I find that to be a more pleasing outcome with Grundbegriff. For now, take his scans with an Australia-sized grain of salt but file them away and let him live a bit longer. If he's Imperial, we'll figure that out in a couple of turns, and needn't make his scans the basis of any plays unless he claims to give us an Imperial--at which case it gets really interesting. If he's really Talon, it'll force the Empire to have to make a play they're hoping we'll do for them.

Here's the thing though: as you note as time goes on with Grund alive, doesn't that diminish his value at the same time? Say on day 4 a still-alive Grund comes forward and claims that tru1cy (say) is imperial. He's already under suspicion, even more so once he's survived two nights. What do we do with that information? Lynch tru1cy based on the assertion of highly suspect Grund, or do we lynch the uncontested seer two days late (after which we could still be wrong)?

That's one of the things that was assuaging the fair point that Grund was uncontested in his seer claim - the longer Grund survives the greater benefit if he's a seer, but greater risk if he's imperial.

[triggercut]

I agree that Grund proves himself most likely by:

1. Swinging and having his alignment revealed, or
2. Being killed at night, or
3. Being shot during the day by an Imperial.

As the game stretches out--and it will be a long game--if none of those things happen Grund becomes more and more likely to be a fraud. As the game stretches out, if he cannot deliver us an Imperial to hang, he becomes more and more a fraud.

What I do not understand is the rush to hang him. If he's spoofing the role of Talon Karrde, he'll be found out soon enough. If he's the real deal, the Imperials will at some point be forced into action that proves him and possibly causes one of them to have to fire off a power and also reveal.

I find that to be a more pleasing outcome with Grundbegriff. For now, take his scans with an Australia-sized grain of salt but file them away and let him live a bit longer. If he's Imperial, we'll figure that out in a couple of turns, and needn't make his scans the basis of any plays unless he claims to give us an Imperial--at which case it gets really interesting. If he's really Talon, it'll force the Empire to have to make a play they're hoping we'll do for them.

Here's the thing though: as you note as time goes on with Grund alive, doesn't that diminish his value at the same time? Say on day 4 a still-alive Grund comes forward and claims that tru1cy (say) is imperial. He's already under suspicion, even more so once he's survived two nights. What do we do with that information? Lynch tru1cy based on the assertion of highly suspect Grund, or do we lynch the uncontested seer two days late (after which we could still be wrong)?

That's one of the things that was assuaging the fair point that Grund was uncontested in his seer claim - the longer Grund survives the greater benefit if he's a seer, but greater risk if he's imperial.

There's absolutely no denying that the shelf life value of any scan or "scan" given to us by Grundbegriff degrades with each successive turn that he stays alive...but I believe that right now that value is enough for the village to let him continue to hear him out and let him live.* Hopefully he produces a scan of an alleged Imperial, which allows us to settle things once and for all, with either him or his scan "target" being evil in that case.

*one exception. If he provides a scan of one particular player in the game, I will personally lead the cavalry charge against him.

[Grundbegriff]

Scanning's like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're going to get.

[El Guapo]

Hey purge, could you let us know when the wolves think they'll finish deliberating on the night kill?

[Grundbegriff]

*one exception. If he provides a scan of one particular player in the game, I will personally lead the cavalry charge against him.

I assume you're talking about Kermit. No, I wouldn't do that.

[purge]

*one exception. If he provides a scan of one particular player in the game, I will personally lead the cavalry charge against him.

I assume you're talking about Kermit. No, I wouldn't do that.

Turn to the dark side I would. Crush him with the force I can.

Heads up. Unagi and Theohall are fighting about who to kill in the other forum.

This could take a bit.

[Scoop20906]

Here's how I am looking at it.

If Grund survives to tomorrow and isn't protected then it comes down to his scan.

If he gives us a rebel, we have to test Grund.

If he gives us an Imp, then we have to decide if we trust him enough to test the scanned.

I suppose it also depends on who he named too and what there response is.

Would love it if a counter Talon came out tomorrow and his scan gave us another Imp too.

I also think we DO NOT wait to the deadline this time if we can help it.

Really interesting to see how this plays out. Wish the specials and Imps just get on with tho.

[El Guapo]

Heh. They're probably waiting to see if we'll ever stop giving them information on our lynch plans before they decide. Come to think of it...maybe we should stop doing that.

[LordMortis]

Because if they're imperial, Someone ELSE will keep dying each night. Leaving less room in the pool for their partners to hide in. Eventually everyone will say 'ok, enough' and lynch either or both. My own instinct is to not lynch a seer until he gives us enough info that it changes the game for us.

So by all rights one of them should be dead tomorrow so imperials will have a larger pool to hide in?

Keep breaking it down. It's not simple enough yet for me.

Because the Imperials won't kill the Imperials at Night. When IMP(GRUND/TRIG/PURGE) doesn't die at Night, a REBEL IS KILLED.
The remaining players are now a higher concentration of Imperial. And more so each Night another Rebel dies.

I still don't get it as you state it. What I am reading is as rebels die it gets harder for imperials to hide. Therefore do not lynch someone who says he's the seer but as I don't seem to be able to see what you are saying as simple I'll do my best to assume your position and try to figure out what you are saying on my own. I suspect in the end it will look the same to me as you shouldn't lynch him because he's uncontested. I just need to find the time and I'm not sure when that will be.

[purge]

Heh. They're probably waiting to see if we'll ever stop giving them information on our lynch plans before they decide. Come to think of it...maybe we should stop doing that.

Actually, could you just tell us who you're going to kill now? It'd save BB some time and writeup.

[purge]

Because if they're imperial, Someone ELSE will keep dying each night. Leaving less room in the pool for their partners to hide in. Eventually everyone will say 'ok, enough' and lynch either or both. My own instinct is to not lynch a seer until he gives us enough info that it changes the game for us.

So by all rights one of them should be dead tomorrow so imperials will have a larger pool to hide in?

Keep breaking it down. It's not simple enough yet for me.

Because the Imperials won't kill the Imperials at Night. When IMP(GRUND/TRIG/PURGE) doesn't die at Night, a REBEL IS KILLED.
The remaining players are now a higher concentration of Imperial. And more so each Night another Rebel dies.

I still don't get it as you state it. What I am reading is as rebels die it gets harder for imperials to hide. Therefore do not lynch someone who says he's the seer but as I don't seem to be able to see what you are saying as simple I'll do my best to assume your position and try to figure out what you are saying on my own. I suspect in the end it will look the same to me as you shouldn't lynch him because he's uncontested. I just need to find the time and I'm not sure when that will be.

Process of elimination (literally, in this case).

If there are X rebels and Y imperials hiding, at night only X is killed off and therefore the density of Y's present in the remaining group goes up. Izzatright?

Also, he's indicating we should keep our uncontested seer around for his "scans".

I agree that one day isn't going to harm it - but I can tell you this - if there WAS someone to contest Talon's role they may not have wanted to come out yet. I'd go sofar as to say I'd expect they were pushing for grund, but since there has been so much radio noise, they'd be doing this.

A lot.

[LordMortis]

Trying to build a matrix to prove what chaosraven (and others? Assuming they actually believe they have a reason to keep Grund alive) believes I should instinctual now.

Essentially matrix should contain the following.

Before assuming other special abilities 5 Days of what ifs. Village action and result if Seer Find Rebel and if Seer Finds Imperial. Village action and Result if Wolf states Rebel and if wolf states Imperial.

As it turns out this is more complex than just plugging in numbers and quite frankly, I'm a stupid man child, so I may or may not get to it when I get home tonight.

And man this has been a long night. What's the time limit on night?

[Newcastle]

still reading and trying to catch up. though not too optimistic till i can pry an hour or so of reading time to go through this...

[purge]

Wait you will, until my hat in season is.

[bb2112]

You wake up and make your way to the conference table. You notice several others start to trickle into the main area from the other rooms in the complex. Lord Mortis is seen with his notebook checking off names as each new person walks into the room.

“Ok, that is everyone but Jow,” he announces.

Theohall comes out of the galley holding a cup of coffee, “well, somebody go wake up his lazy ass, let’s get this day rolling, we have things to do, Imperials to lynch.”

“I’ll get him,” replies Chaosraven.

Lord Mortis turns to the group, “I don’t understand why you guys let Grund live day after day. Your thought process is beyond me. He is obviously an Imperial and has just been saying whatever he needs to say to get out of us killing him. Look, I made this chart with all kinds of arrows, graphs, and tables, complete with outcomes and their probabilities,” he holds up a page out of his notebook.

Coopasonic leans in to take a closer look, “Um, LM that is just a picture of a bunch of stick people playing on a green field.”

“I know! See, according to this chart it makes no sense to why we shouldn’t kill Grund right now.”

Chaosraven pops his head back into the room, “Uh, hold onto that thought, I think you guys had better come see this.” Chaosraven leads the group back to one of the adjoining chambers and Jow is lying curled up on the floor. He looks like he is sleeping. That is until you see his face frozen in a state of shocked horror.

Austin leans down to look at Jow and rolls him over. A syringe is sticking out of his chest. Austin checks for a pulse and then looks up to those gathered around. “Yeah, stick a fork in him. He is done.”

Everyone turns to Lord Mortis who is busily scribbling out Jow’s name on his list. He looks up to see everyone staring at him. “Can we please get back to more important issues. I have to know where this tree on my chart comes into play with people’s voting strategies.”

With that, the group slowly files back into the conference room for another long, grueling day of discussions.

Jow is DEAD

[bb2112]

Day 3 Vote

1. Isgrimnur --------------->
2. El Guapo ---------------->
3. Qantaga ---------------->
4. RMC --------------------->
5. Lassr -------------------->
6. Mr. Bubbles ------------->
7. Coopasonic ------------->
8. Chaosraven ------------->
9. Remus West ------------>
10. Scoop20906 ------------>
11. Grundbegriff ---------->
12. Theohall --------------->
13. Tru1cy ----------------->
14. Purge ------------------>
15. Lord Mortis ----------->
16. Austin ----------------->
17. Unagi ------------------>
18. Triggercut ------------>
19. Newcastle ------------->
20. Warpig ---------------->
21. Lagom Lite ----------->



No Votes:


Majority is 11

Dead
Day 1 <------------ Stessier - Syringed
Night 1 <---------- Redrun - Garroted
Night 2 <---------- Jow - Injected

Deadline is May 30th 9PM Eastern

Day: All day actions happen first come first served
Count Dooku: Who will receive your secret vote for a lynch today?
Yoda: Who will receive your secret vote for a lynch today?
Darth Maul: Who will you take with you to the afterlife?
Boba Fett: Who will you protect from the lynch?
Admiral Ackbar: Will you public declare?
Rukh: Who will you assassinate?
Boba Fett: If your scan reveals a Rebel, will you kill the Rebel?
Greedo: Who will you shoot?
Leia Organa: Who will you stun?
Vader: Who will you choke to death?
R2D2: Who will receive your 3 secret votes for a lynch?
C3PO: Will you ask the Mod through PM what role started in the game?
Chewbacca: Who's arms will you tear off?
Han Solo: Will you initiate a block? If so on who?
Grand Admiral Thrawn: Get’s Rebel or Citizen if there is a successful lynch of a Rebel or Citizen.

Anytime:
Rukh: If you have identified Thrawn, you may interrupt any kill on Thrawn and sacrifice yourself instead.
Cad Bane: Name the player you want to disable.
Admiral Ackbar: Did you meet your secret agenda? If so PM the Mod.

[LordMortis]

No Marsha reveal last night. That's not a good sign. Trig's not dead. I'm ambivalent about that sign. Now to wait for grund's report.

[coopasonic]

Lord Mortis turns to the group, “I don’t understand why you guys let Grund live day after day. Your thought process is beyond me. He is obviously an Imperial and has just been saying whatever he needs to say to get out of us killing him. Look, I made this chart with all kinds of arrows, graphs, and tables, complete with outcomes and their probabilities,” he holds up a page out of his notebook.

Coopasonic leans in to take a closer look, “Um, LM that is just a picture of a bunch of stick people playing on a green field.”

“I know! See, according to this chart it makes no sense to why we shouldn’t kill Grund right now.”

Awesome.

[Lassr]

fascinating...

[El Guapo]

I told you guys that Jow was a rebel!

So.....Grund, about that scan...

[Chaosraven]

Well at least nobody's gonna tease him about how his post count isn't going up...

[El Guapo]

Deadline is May 30th 9PM Eastern

Wait wait, this part in big bold letters is totally confusing. Like, as long as we vote before 9 pm wherever we are, we're still good, right? And what does 'eastern' mean, anyway?

[LordMortis]

Deadline is May 30th 9PM Eastern

Wait wait, this part in big bold letters is totally confusing. Like, as long as we vote before 9 pm wherever we are, we're still good, right? And what does 'eastern' mean, anyway?

I'm glad you posted this. We went from two weeks to one week. That's going to be funny as I'm as likely as not to not give just about any attention to this game from Friday afternoon until next Thursday.

[purge]

Deadline is May 30th 9PM Eastern

Wait wait, this part in big bold letters is totally confusing. Like, as long as we vote before 9 pm wherever we are, we're still good, right? And what does 'eastern' mean, anyway?

Does the joke get funnier every time you say it, or just in your head?

I get it. You don't believe that I accidentally missed the deadline. It's entirely possible that I was stalling to let Grund get another scan in, or OOO, letting him live his happy imperial existence for one.more.day.

I said it before - I will cast my two votes against the N-2 person, I don't care who it is (at this point).

The offer still stands - I don't think that the tested should get to be killed without speaking first. I doubt Dooku would give you that same consideration.

I also consider your harping on this as a distraction to what really matters - which leads me to think that you and your man-bride-roleplay may well still be on the same side, but not on mine.

[purge]

Deadline is May 30th 9PM Eastern

Wait wait, this part in big bold letters is totally confusing. Like, as long as we vote before 9 pm wherever we are, we're still good, right? And what does 'eastern' mean, anyway?

I'm glad you posted this. We went from two weeks to one week. That's going to be funny as I'm as likely as not to not give just about any attention to this game from Friday afternoon until next Thursday.

Noted.

[RMC]

Is that EST or EDT?

Sorry...last joke on time from me anyway...

[purge]

No Marsha reveal last night. That's not a good sign. Trig's not dead. I'm ambivalent about that sign. Now to wait for grund's report.

Two possibilities exist:

One - if innocent:
why would they want to kill Trig?
he's either Grunds' blind, or at the very least
he's controversial enough to be put in the noose.

Two - if guilty:
They couldn't kill him if they wanted to.

I'd be interested to see what our "seer" has to say.

[El Guapo]

Deadline is May 30th 9PM Eastern

Wait wait, this part in big bold letters is totally confusing. Like, as long as we vote before 9 pm wherever we are, we're still good, right? And what does 'eastern' mean, anyway?

Does the joke get funnier every time you say it, or just in your head?

I get it. You don't believe that I accidentally missed the deadline. It's entirely possible that I was stalling to let Grund get another scan in, or OOO, letting him live his happy imperial existence for one.more.day.

I said it before - I will cast my two votes against the N-2 person, I don't care who it is (at this point).

The offer still stands - I don't think that the tested should get to be killed without speaking first. I doubt Dooku would give you that same consideration.

I also consider your harping on this as a distraction to what really matters - which leads me to think that you and your man-bride-roleplay may well still be on the same side, but not on mine.

It's funnier now that you are in a tizzy about it.

Also - it's not that I doubt that you earnestly missed the deadline. It's more that at least two players evidently have trouble applying time zones. But maybe they don't use those on Yoda's homeworld.

Did they ever establish what Yoda's homeworld is, by the way?

[purge]

Is that EST or EDT?

Sorry...last joke on time from me anyway...

Actually, it was a little late.

Spoiler:

Bah-dum... TISH!

[El Guapo]

No Marsha reveal last night. That's not a good sign. Trig's not dead. I'm ambivalent about that sign. Now to wait for grund's report.

redrun must be Mon Mothma, right? Only possibilities are:

(1) redrun was MM (I think this most likely);
(2) Whoever is Mon Mothma is completely asleep at the switch, or playing Diablo III while on cold medication;
(3) There's some strategic reason for MM not using her power early that I'm missing.

[Remus West]

The offer still stands - I don't think that the tested should get to be killed without speaking first. I doubt Dooku would give you that same consideration.

Why wouldn't he?

[Unagi]

I'm waiting on what Remus and Grund both have to say.

[purge]

Deadline is May 30th 9PM Eastern

Wait wait, this part in big bold letters is totally confusing. Like, as long as we vote before 9 pm wherever we are, we're still good, right? And what does 'eastern' mean, anyway?

Does the joke get funnier every time you say it, or just in your head?

I get it. You don't believe that I accidentally missed the deadline. It's entirely possible that I was stalling to let Grund get another scan in, or OOO, letting him live his happy imperial existence for one.more.day.

I said it before - I will cast my two votes against the N-2 person, I don't care who it is (at this point).

The offer still stands - I don't think that the tested should get to be killed without speaking first. I doubt Dooku would give you that same consideration.

I also consider your harping on this as a distraction to what really matters - which leads me to think that you and your man-bride-roleplay may well still be on the same side, but not on mine.

It's funnier now that you are in a tizzy about it.

Also - it's not that I doubt that you earnestly missed the deadline. It's more that at least two players evidently have trouble applying time zones. But maybe they don't use those on Yoda's homeworld.

Did they ever establish what Yoda's homeworld is, by the way?

It's not Dagobah. That's his "hang out near a dark side well that lets him hide from the Sith" summer home.

Not in a tizzy - your message acted as a nice segue to putting forward that I'd be willing to do this again (not against a game-deadline though).

[Unagi]

and there he is...

[coopasonic]

(3) There's some strategic reason for MM not using her power early that I'm missing.

They don't want to die?

[El Guapo]

(3) There's some strategic reason for MM not using her power early that I'm missing.

They don't want to die?

Yeah, that occurred to me as well after I posted. I think that makes more sense on night 1 than night 2 frankly - if there's no strategic reason at this point not to sacrifice herself to prove a rebel and they're doing it just to keep playing, then they're hurting their team and their interest in actually winning.

Plus, I'd think they'd want a break from reading the WW thread to end all WW threads.

[purge]

The offer still stands - I don't think that the tested should get to be killed without speaking first. I doubt Dooku would give you that same consideration.

Why wouldn't he?

I suppose he would were the target an imperial. He could do whatever he wanted - I was highlighting my tendency (across the board) of not scooping people.

I can do what he cannot - I can cast both votes on imperial.

Remus ... can we test you? Your gameplay reminds me of the one where Rev and I were going at it. There's almost a ... I dunno ... cold detachment? to your gameplay. As opposed to raging mistrust that you held last game.

It's unsettling.