The Empire Strikes Back - Empire Victory

[theohall]

[theohall]

Blame triggercut for his "I am Empire, obviously" statement. Without that, I probably trust Grund.

Looks like the Empire is going to win this one, since there is no likely chance of me surviving after my incorrect nonsense. Which means my death is just another Rebel citizen death putting the Empire that much closer to victory. Oh, well. I will shut up now.

[El Guapo]

Blame triggercut for his "I am Empire, obviously" statement. Without that, I probably trust Grund.

Looks like the Empire is going to win this one, since there is no likely chance of me surviving after my incorrect nonsense. Which means my death is just another Rebel citizen death putting the Empire that much closer to victory. Oh, well. I will shut up now.

On the plus side, you can stop posting "Triggercut delenda est".

[triggercut]

Going to braindump in case of my own death tonight.

7 Grundbegriff <-------------------- Theohall, Unagi, RMC, Triggercut, Coopasonic, Warpig, Lagom Lite

Warpig put his vote on Grundbegriff.

Then there was some interplay between Grund and Scoop where our actual, verified scanner strongly hinted that maybe he'd give us an Imperial after all.

Lagom Lite voted, Chaosraven Chaosed--and begged for time for talk--and I this VERIFIED rebel player decided it sure would be itneresting to hear what else Grundbegriff had to say.

I'm guessing the Empire thought Grund had interesting things to say as well, because Grundbegriff rocketed to the gallows like an express train today.

How'd that happen?

10 Grundbegriff <-------------------- Theohall, Unagi, RMC, Triggercut, Coopasonic, Warpig, Lagom Lite, Lassr, Remus West, Austin

I would strongly suspect those three folks: Lassr, Remus, and Austin.

I suspect Austin especially for his final vote.

After I say that, I wonder to myself: "Did anyone else seem to act and react to me the same way Austin did?"

There's one other, and he's also on the Grundbegriff list: RMC.

Still looking...........

[triggercut]

Blame triggercut for his "I am Empire, obviously" statement. Without that, I probably trust Grund.

Looks like the Empire is going to win this one, since there is no likely chance of me surviving after my incorrect nonsense. Which means my death is just another Rebel citizen death putting the Empire that much closer to victory. Oh, well. I will shut up now.

If you are Empire, well done. You cooked our Seer. Good job.

If you are not, perhaps you've learned a valuable lesson here about the meaning of the word "context". Perhaps you've also learned as well as the idea that the truth you think you know perhaps is not the truth that actually is.

[Unagi]

Unagi, what do you think of this?

Brain Dump:
(sorry, I began this earlier - but then I had a series of afternoon meetings)

I'm just left pissed that Grund didn't at least tell us who his scan was. That is certain.

I'm frustrated by the way that he declared you totally trustable, long before he claimed seer (that, to me, seemed un-seer-like)

I had a feeling that Remus West was actually Talon, but he didn't want to directly counter Grund.

On that topic, and with the result on Grund: Why on earth did Remus feel that we should not at least wait 1 night before we tested him (so as to maybe get 2 scans to trust. Seriously Remus, now that we know you knew nothing - WHY?).

Why was I on the Grund vote yesterday? If you go back and read, (or even if you just remember...) I joined that vote only very late and when it became clear that there was only going to be 'him' or 'myself'. I tossed a few "easy ones" at Grund (like: Grund, what do you make of tru1cy not putting his vote on me, but putting it on you?) And I also felt that Scoop was an obvious wolf. When he was just blowing those off, and when Remus kept just barking that he New with certainty that Grund was Evil, it struck me that Remus may actually BE Talon, and that's why he's going so ape-shit crazy on him. So, I put my vote on Grund, and never really looked back. That being said - I thought (and posted) that we needed and wanted to get Grund's 2nd scan today, because I wasn't certain of it at all.


Austin is top on my list right now.
Scoop and Newcastle haven't moved - still very high on my list.
Tru1cy, now, IMO, looks absolutely rotten to the core for putting his vote down on Grund the other day. (although, good-guy Grund excused him)
Remus and Theohall are, I would think, at the top of everyones list (by the way, this fact was also something that made me feel that there was only a slim chance that Grund would hang as Rebel... these two would look so horrible - that I felt they must have really meant it, and this wasn't a 'wolf game'... now I feel a little silly.)

Remus, I think Fiona Apple said it best in Shadow Boxer:

So darlin' I just wanna say
Just in case I don't come through
I was onto every play
I just wanted you

That could be 6 imperials right there. Hard part to swallow is that 3 of them basically just gave themselves to us. That's totally weird and has me worried that we are down to our last miss or something.


LM and El Guapo, IMO, seemed to be 'where I was at' on the Grundbegriff deal... so, I feel inclined to not include them in an Evil review of the lynch.
Coop also, still seems good through that whole thing, IMO, but I maybe should look at that again.

Qantaga... I'm telling ya - he seemed to start this game fairly clearly as Imperial to me. Since he came back he's looked a lot better, but his part in the Grundbegriff lynch has me wondering a bit too, even though he was 'in line' *(cuddled up?) with how I was thinking on Grund today, I am not sure if he was being honest (did feel that way) or if he's really getting good at evil.

Lagom is like Qantaga at this point to me. He seems 'better', but I don't trust myself, and feel he's still perhaps evil.

purge is less Guilty looking, as is Isgrimnur (still wigged on that whole thing though)

not sure on : RMC,Lassr, Mr. Bubbles

Chaosraven - he's something.

Warpig - no clue really, he was on the Grund kill... not much else.

[Unagi]

After I say that, I wonder to myself: "Did anyone else seem to act and react to me the same way Austin did?"

I'd also like to point out that Austin was trying to get me killed the other day. Numerous times.

[Remus West]

By shoot austin, I mean that he may be Nute (avoid detection) or Maul.

Frankly, I suspect he's Nute and Theo is Maul (zerk).

WTF? Don't you need to execute Austin to prove you are rebel, take fricken four?

The fact that I held off on killing Grund, and him turning out to be THE FREAKIN' SEER doesn't say anything to you?

Also, my power will work to trigger a lynch on Nute or Maul.

It will not stop their power from being used (Nute will "not be findable" to lynch - Maul will zerk).

If we do that, we'd need Han to disable their protection.

BB: what would happen if han disables Maul, and Maul is executed. Boom? What about Nute? That is a form of protection - yes/no?

Stop mentally giving yourself credit for things you may or may not have done. grundbegriff went 1 public vote shy of majority. You have a secret vote that you have claimed. This is the type of thing that makes people doubt you more. I can see you in the Evil forum telling them you've placed your vote and are now just waiting for some sucker to place the kill vote by accident. Not saying that is what happened but it has as much chance of being the true events as your tale that you are so eager for us to swallow.

Mentally giving me credit for thing's I may or may not have done?

Dude. Really. I'm not giving me credit.

I held off on the N-2 today. I did that. I chimed in on it. Is that not obvious?? It doesn't say whether I'm proven or not, but that action is pretty clear. I did the same thing on the prev day. I've fought ardently against killing our unchallenged seer claim.

He's now dead, with an invisible vote. It would be in the Imperials best interest to sow seeds of mistrust in me, or kill me today. Perhaps I will live ... oh, and Remus? You've got some crud under your fingernails.

My whole point is that it is NOT obvious. We have no way to guage when you cast you secret vote. That is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. You are seeking credit for something that can not be proven. You did not place your public vote is the only proven statement we can get.
oh, and purge, I am much to (too? damn it.) prissy and proper to get dirty without complaint.

[bb2112]

BB: what would happen if han disables Maul, and Maul is executed. Boom? What about Nute? That is a form of protection - yes/no?

Han Solo: Han can block a protection once per game from any player that has the protection ability.

Nute and Maul do not qualify.

[Unagi]

Remus, any thoughts?

Other than *#&%? No.

Alright, that is a lie. I think you need to share all of your thoughts with us because as our only confirmed good you are undoubtably in the crosshairs right now. We can be sure anything you share with us is coming from an effort to aid rather than impeed.

I need to call this to everyone's attention.

Remus is the father of the thought:
"The outed/trusted/proven are the last people you want to listen to, for they know the least"

I seriously think this is the first game I've ever heard him request information from the guy that just became trusted.

Can I get a witness?

[Scoop20906]

Wow. What a mess! And yeah, I definitely played a part in this disaster. Why couldn't Grund just drop his knowledge. Instead by delaying we only have one proven instead of two. Austin might be dooku but either way he is an Imp and should be our lynch tomorrow. We have to be careful and not jump to conclusions here about anyone tho. Grund dying only proves that Triggercut is a rebel and says nothing about anyone else. If we make assumptions an Imps might slide through a crack.

I think we should settle down and try not to give anymore info to the Imps.

[Scoop20906]

Remus, any thoughts?

Other than *#&%? No.

Alright, that is a lie. I think you need to share all of your thoughts with us because as our only confirmed good you are undoubtably in the crosshairs right now. We can be sure anything you share with us is coming from an effort to aid rather than impeed.

I need to call this to everyone's attention.

Remus is the father of the thought:
"The outed/trusted/proven are the last people you want to listen to, for they know the least"

I seriously think this is the first game I've ever heard him request information from the guy that just became trusted.

Can I get a witness?

Unagi, you can sleep or you can keep talking.

[Remus West]

Remus, any thoughts?

Other than *#&%? No.

Alright, that is a lie. I think you need to share all of your thoughts with us because as our only confirmed good you are undoubtably in the crosshairs right now. We can be sure anything you share with us is coming from an effort to aid rather than impeed.

I need to call this to everyone's attention.

Remus is the father of the thought:
"The outed/trusted/proven are the last people you want to listen to, for they know the least"

I seriously think this is the first game I've ever heard him request information from the guy that just became trusted.

Can I get a witness?

I always request the information. That doesn't mean you use it as scripture. Big difference. I specifically mentioned we could trust his motive not his decisions. For instance, shortly before I posted that he had listed me as Empire. I can understand why but that does not make him correct in thinking so. Why are you working so hard on pointing at me during the night?

[Unagi]

I see no problem with engaging you at night, Remus.

[Isgrimnur]

When are you two lovebirds going to set a date?

[theohall]

Blame triggercut for his "I am Empire, obviously" statement. Without that, I probably trust Grund.

Looks like the Empire is going to win this one, since there is no likely chance of me surviving after my incorrect nonsense. Which means my death is just another Rebel citizen death putting the Empire that much closer to victory. Oh, well. I will shut up now.

If you are Empire, well done. You cooked our Seer. Good job.

If you are not, perhaps you've learned a valuable lesson here about the meaning of the word "context". Perhaps you've also learned as well as the idea that the truth you think you know perhaps is not the truth that actually is.

I hope you learned the lesson to pay attention to what you post. without your faux pas, what happens? I certainly don't keep pointing out something that didn't happen.

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk 2

[triggercut]

Blame triggercut for his "I am Empire, obviously" statement. Without that, I probably trust Grund.

Looks like the Empire is going to win this one, since there is no likely chance of me surviving after my incorrect nonsense. Which means my death is just another Rebel citizen death putting the Empire that much closer to victory. Oh, well. I will shut up now.

If you are Empire, well done. You cooked our Seer. Good job.

If you are not, perhaps you've learned a valuable lesson here about the meaning of the word "context". Perhaps you've also learned as well as the idea that the truth you think you know perhaps is not the truth that actually is.

I hope you learned the lesson to pay attention to what you post. without your faux pas, what happens? I certainly don't keep pointing out something that didn't happen.

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk 2

I can't decide if you're out of your mind or Empire.

I'm hoping it's the latter.

[RMC]

I do want to say if Grund had just given us the information he had, this would not have happened. I could have put him over the day before and did not, as I didn't think he was evil.

But when he came out and wanted to be coy about what he had found out, I really thought he was on team evil.

<shrug> I am just a confused rebel what can I say?

[Chaosraven]

Why didn't Grund... WHAT??

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING?

Wednesday 11am. Day3 Starts.
Thursday 10am. Grund set up for N-2.

While I understand the desire to avoid a no lynch... less than 24 hours.

Amazing.

[Chaosraven]

...

Backspaced the whole thing. It'll wait til morning.

[triggercut]

...

Backspaced the whole thing. It'll wait til morning.

Yeah, waiting around with info in this game has been a strategy that's paid off pretty well so far.

Good call.

[purge]

I do want to say if Grund had just given us the information he had, this would not have happened. I could have put him over the day before and did not, as I didn't think he was evil.

But when he came out and wanted to be coy about what he had found out, I really thought he was on team evil.

<shrug> I am just a confused rebel what can I say?

You put him on the block ... what DO you say?

I said it before he was lynched - Grunds method is testing - ALWAYS.

If he says he's seer, I don't believe him. I wait for the other shoe to drop.

If he's seer, and comes across as such, his reveal may well be a trap for the imperials.

Either he baited them, or he trusted that Rebels would actually want to hear what he had to say. Clearly the folks who cast votes did not.

We can only kill imperials one at a time.

I think Theohall or Remus need to be shot.

BB: does a kill other than lynch confirm alignment? I am going to assume it does not reveal role due to coroners being present. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[purge]

Remus, any thoughts?

Other than *#&%? No.

Alright, that is a lie. I think you need to share all of your thoughts with us because as our only confirmed good you are undoubtably in the crosshairs right now. We can be sure anything you share with us is coming from an effort to aid rather than impeed.

I need to call this to everyone's attention.

Remus is the father of the thought:
"The outed/trusted/proven are the last people you want to listen to, for they know the least"

I seriously think this is the first game I've ever heard him request information from the guy that just became trusted.

Can I get a witness?

I always request the information. That doesn't mean you use it as scripture. Big difference. I specifically mentioned we could trust his motive not his decisions. For instance, shortly before I posted that he had listed me as Empire. I can understand why but that does not make him correct in thinking so. Why are you working so hard on pointing at me during the night?

Is this Palpatine pushing his underling under the bus?

[bb2112]

BB: does a kill other than lynch confirm alignment? I am going to assume it does not reveal role due to coroners being present. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes, all deaths reveal alignment.

[Remus West]

I do want to say if Grund had just given us the information he had, this would not have happened. I could have put him over the day before and did not, as I didn't think he was evil.

But when he came out and wanted to be coy about what he had found out, I really thought he was on team evil.

<shrug> I am just a confused rebel what can I say?

You put him on the block ... what DO you say?

I said it before he was lynched - Grunds method is testing - ALWAYS.

If he says he's seer, I don't believe him. I wait for the other shoe to drop.

If he's seer, and comes across as such, his reveal may well be a trap for the imperials.

Either he baited them, or he trusted that Rebels would actually want to hear what he had to say. Clearly the folks who cast votes did not.

We can only kill imperials one at a time.

I think Theohall or Remus need to be shot.

BB: does a kill other than lynch confirm alignment? I am going to assume it does not reveal role due to coroners being present. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

What do you know about the Imperials that you keep requesting a shot?

Also, some of us that cast votes were willing to hear what he had to say we just wanted it to be done sooner rather than later. I made it pretty clear when I cast my vote. Frankly, I felt I held off long enough before casting it. All I did as far as the vote was to place him in position so we were ready to test you. You build more out of it than there is.

[Unagi]

Why are you working so hard on pointing at purge during the night?

[Chaosraven]

...

Backspaced the whole thing. It'll wait til morning.

Yeah, waiting around with info in this game has been a strategy that's paid off pretty well so far.

Good call.

Heh. What are they going to do, KILL ME?

Bwa Hahahahahahahaha!!!!

[Lagom Lite]

Well, at least the imps are happy.

I feel dirty for casting that vote.

Soo... we killed our Seer. Yeah. Excellent.

[Austin]

At least I am pretty sure I'm safe tonight. I am apparently quite helpful to the wrong team. And I suppose I've given them a free day off tomorrow too as we lynch another Rebel. I do apologize. I'll leave my thoughts on each remaining player when morning comes.

[triggercut]

At least I am pretty sure I'm safe tonight.

Yeah, I'll say.

[Austin]

At least I am pretty sure I'm safe tonight.

Yeah, I'll say.

Look, I do not have a secret vote, nor did I have any way of knowing there was a secret vote. I didn't read ahead and didn't know that a secret vote would have mattered at this point. We never had a lynch yesterday for crying out loud, after 2 weeks. I came home, found some time to get on OO (between a bunch of other distractions), saw Grund's "Oh, I scanned someone but I don't think I should tell who" bit and wanted to voice my disapproval. It was dumb, but a lot of other people were on the vote too.

I'll take my lumps, but it's bad for the Rebels. They kill, I assume you tonight, and tomorrow we lynch another Rebel. Yay.

[Newcastle]

all i got for right now....

[Mr Bubbles]

Well, at least the imps are happy.

I feel dirty for casting that vote.

Soo... we killed our Seer. Yeah. Excellent.

If we did indeed kill our seer I have to say I'm a bit disappointed in grund. There are things he could have done that would have drawn less attention to himself.

[LordMortis]

Look, I do not have a secret vote

Of course you don't. That would be a silly imperial to string up. Likely you are a not so special imperial. A shooting imperial. Or a miss a lynch imperial.

[Remus West]

Why are you working so hard on pointing at purge during the night?

Pointing at the fact that he is not proven would lean more towards protecting him at night now wouldn't it.

[El Guapo]

Well, at least the imps are happy.

I feel dirty for casting that vote.

Soo... we killed our Seer. Yeah. Excellent.

If we did indeed kill our seer I have to say I'm a bit disappointed in grund. There are things he could have done that would have drawn less attention to himself.

I don't think there's any significant doubt that Grund was the seer. While it's true that if any non-seer rebel player would spoof another good role, it would probably be Grund who would do so, risking outing the real seer would be a crazy maneuver even for him.

That said, I do think he wound up out-thinking himself on his day 3 maneuvers.

[LordMortis]

That said, I do think he wound up out-thinking himself on his day 3 maneuvers.

I would agree with you but he handed us Austin. I have no idea how. I'd have never seen it coming. I don't get it all but his play somehow gets us Austin. The only way it was "wrong" IMO, was if he actually scanned an imperial. If he scanned an imperial we could have used purge to test the imperial, not allowing us to trust grund but allowing us to kill an imperial and trust purge (or know purge was imperial). If he scanned a rebel then fricken kudos to him.

[Remus West]

That said, I do think he wound up out-thinking himself on his day 3 maneuvers.

I would agree with you but he handed us Austin. I have no idea how. I'd have never seen it coming. I don't get it all but his play somehow gets us Austin. The only way it was "wrong" IMO, was if he actually scanned an imperial. If he scanned an imperial we could have used purge to test the imperial, not allowing us to trust grund but allowing us to kill an imperial and trust purge (or know purge was imperial). If he scanned a rebel then fricken kudos to him.

Except if Austin is Imperial then why did they not simply shoot him? The odds of them not having a shooter are extremely small yet here they are handing us an Imperial to lynch in trade for Grund? Why did they not simply shoot him if that were their plan? I actually have an answer I think fits but we'll see how it pans out.

[Unagi]

but it's bad for the Rebels.

Look Austin, if you are a rebel, you clearly haven't been reading and paying attention at all. So, it's not so hot for the rebels to even have you as a rebel. right?

I assume you aren't a rebel, because you seemed to have been basically paying attention before that total mess.

[LordMortis]

Except if Austin is Imperial then why did they not simply shoot him? The odds of them not having a shooter are extremely small yet here they are handing us an Imperial to lynch in trade for Grund? Why did they not simply shoot him if that were their plan? I actually have an answer I think fits but we'll see how it pans out.

You crazy. And you continue to be crazy. Why would they shoot him? If they did then we'd just lynch the shooter (Austin)

I still don't get why killed Grund rather than forcing Purge to do it. That baffles me. I have no idea what they feared.

Unless you are agreeing with the idea that Austin's lynch and the extra vote were an accident.