How has the recent economic turmoil affected you?

[Odin]

It's a totally different paradigm for us commission only sales folks. I do whatever I need to do to bring in revenue (which translates to a paycheck), and that typically requires 50-60 hours a week. I suppose I could only work 40 hours a week, but I'd a) be making a lot less money, and b) probably not be employed for long because I wasn't hitting sales goals. Nature of the biz.

Well, yes and no. Somebody at your company set up the sales model, the goals, the product, and the comp plan in such a way that, apparently, (assuming you're reasonably good at your job) the job requires a 60-hour work-week to make money. Now, it could be that you're choosing to put in an extra 20 hours because it bumps up your salary to an artificially-high level, equivalent to somebody choosing to work overtime. If that's the case, then that's fine. But if scaling back to 40 hours would mean both a huge hit to your income and a potential to lose your job, then you're being exploited.

I don't typically lean this far toward socialist/communist rhetoric, but I think these kinds of working conditions are damaging to us as individuals and as a society, and nothing will change if we continue to accept it as the "nature of the biz."

[Skinypupy]

It's a totally different paradigm for us commission only sales folks. I do whatever I need to do to bring in revenue (which translates to a paycheck), and that typically requires 50-60 hours a week. I suppose I could only work 40 hours a week, but I'd a) be making a lot less money, and b) probably not be employed for long because I wasn't hitting sales goals. Nature of the biz.

Well, yes and no. Somebody at your company set up the sales model, the goals, the product, and the comp plan in such a way that, apparently, (assuming you're reasonably good at your job) the job requires a 60-hour work-week to make money. Now, it could be that you're choosing to put in an extra 20 hours because it bumps up your salary to an artificially-high level, equivalent to somebody choosing to work overtime. If that's the case, then that's fine. But if scaling back to 40 hours would mean both a huge hit to your income and a potential to lose your job, then you're being exploited.

As you said, yes and no. The organization expects all of us in this role to put in long hours with little time off in order to hit aggressive sales goals, but compensates us very well for doing so. I suppose they could change the model (I.e. hire lots more salespeople with lower goals and compensation), but...why? I guess it would be a need if people were comsistently burning out, but we all knew the expectation coming in: lots of work for a good paycheck.

I don't typically lean this far toward socialist/communist rhetoric, but I think these kinds of working conditions are damaging to us as individuals and as a society, and nothing will change if we continue to accept it as the "nature of the biz."

Depends on what you're used to, I suppose. I came from a small company (3 people) where we all worked 70-80 hours because there simply wasnt anyone else available to do the work. That's why 50 hours seems pretty light.

[Odin]

Certainly there are exceptions - people who thrive on that kind of work, or have no interest in establishing a work/life balance, or (most rarely of all) somehow manage to establish a meaningful work-life balance in spite of the fact that adding up work+sleep leaves practically nothing left over for anything else. But for most humans, it's just not realistic to work that way. They're either going to burn out or, at best, stagger their way through it for 30-40 years and then spend the rest of their lives regretting all the time they wasted on work instead of with their families. And all of that is aside from the fact that research has consistently shown that people become significantly less effective at their jobs when they put in those kinds of hours over a long stretch. And the more people who think it's a good idea, the more people will unwillingly get dragged into it because it's "expected," which is exactly what's happened over the last 20 years.

[Matrix]

People who buy into that crap just make it harder on those of us trying to have life/work balance.

Yeah, that's the problem. As long as other members of the "team" are willing or even enthusiastic about giving up their personal lives for the company, then it does you significant career damage if you're the one always saying, "No, I can't work late tonight." or "No, I don't think we need to do that project over the weekend." or whatever. And the fact that anyone thinks of 50 hours a week as being a "light week" is absolutely insane. That's the equivalent of a six-day work-week. If you own the business, that's one thing. But to be a non-hourly, non-overtime worker bee working the equivalent of 6 or 7 or 8+ days a week is dehumanizing, and it empowers the employer to keep doing it to you and to others.

Edit to add: I used to think it was okay for execs to pull those kind of hours because, well, they're the execs - they get the big money and they ought to put in the hours. But after being an exec for a while, I decided that was crapola. The combination of the stress it puts on you physically and mentally plus the decrease in productivity after a certain threshold is just as debilitating to execs as for everybody else. Nobody should do it, and as a society I think it would be beneficial for us to scale back closer to a 40-hour work week for anyone who doesn't want to work voluntary overtime.

It's a totally different paradigm for us commission only sales folks. I do whatever I need to do to bring in revenue (which translates to a paycheck), and that typically requires 50-60 hours a week. I suppose I could only work 40 hours a week, but I'd a) be making a lot less money, and b) probably not be employed for long because I wasn't hitting sales goals. Nature of the biz.

Interestingly, and i guess unfortunately , in dating consulting industry while it is all commission aka sales. Amount of work i put in doesn't at all results in more sales. Writing articles, creating content, optimizing website, etc once it all has been set up , any extra work doesn't pay off. Almost at all (diminishing return curve pretty much drops off a cliff). A great example of it was when few summers ago i hired promotional teams, partnered up and promoted at bunch of singles events: over dozen or so, we created print material and etc. In which we had direct access to all the attendees (3000 or so all together), every single one got a promotional info at the door. Yet, it was the slowest summer i ever had in terms of sales. Then year after, i did zero promotions, nothing, and we had busiest summer ever. Most of our clientele either will sign up or they wont, and it almost like they have to find us. Almost universally they have to reach out to us and not vice versa. Anytime we did aggressive marketing, it just didn't work. Even large media exposure doesn't have much effect on us. This year i did print advertising in large local magazines and newspapers and that had zero effect on sales. We had a good spring, but not one person who signed up came from print advertising. So once i had coaches do most of the coaching and my assistant do most of the routine work, i was left with crap ton of time to do what ever. Which thankfully meant i was able to get my MBA studying full time, do various large projects unrelated to dating and now doing start up with great potential all the while running a business. The minus, my core business growth is almost completely not related to how many people we market it too, if i put 20 hours or 80 hours, results will be virtually same.

[silverjon]

You could view that as a pro just as easily as a con. If your hours put into marketing don't matter, then you might as well do other things with your time. And it reduces your overhead if there's no point in spending money on advertising.

[LordMortis]

People who buy into that crap just make it harder on those of us trying to have life/work balance.

Yeah, that's the problem. As long as other members of the "team" are willing or even enthusiastic about giving up their personal lives for the company, then it does you significant career damage if you're the one always saying, "No, I can't work late tonight." or "No, I don't think we need to do that project over the weekend." or whatever. And the fact that anyone thinks of 50 hours a week as being a "light week" is absolutely insane. That's the equivalent of a six-day work-week. If you own the business, that's one thing. But to be a non-hourly, non-overtime worker bee working the equivalent of 6 or 7 or 8+ days a week is dehumanizing, and it empowers the employer to keep doing it to you and to others.

Edit to add: I used to think it was okay for execs to pull those kind of hours because, well, they're the execs - they get the big money and they ought to put in the hours. But after being an exec for a while, I decided that was crapola. The combination of the stress it puts on you physically and mentally plus the decrease in productivity after a certain threshold is just as debilitating to execs as for everybody else. Nobody should do it, and as a society I think it would be beneficial for us to scale back closer to a 40-hour work week for anyone who doesn't want to work voluntary overtime.

It's a totally different paradigm for us commission only sales folks. I do whatever I need to do to bring in revenue (which translates to a paycheck), and that typically requires 50-60 hours a week. I suppose I could only work 40 hours a week, but I'd a) be making a lot less money, and b) probably not be employed for long because I wasn't hitting sales goals. Nature of the biz.

The standard work week here is 45 hours and I'd like to know when the standard work week changed from 40 to 45. When 9 to 5 became 8 to 5. Though I suspect this is a contemporary salaried position thing. Unless emergencies comes up, 45 hours a week is all I put in. Ever. If it's not an emergency (or a major overhaul) then it can get accomplished during normal business hours and you can wait.

They call me LIFO here because I don't give in to the pressure of working 60+ hours a week on a regular basis like most of my office mates. Now, most of the people who work here, work on the commercial end of the business, so they work like you do. But they also seem to spend a lot of work time playing pretty hard. I'd hate it, personally. They make the big bucks. They spend a lot of time at work not working, and get to spend company money dicking around and "cultivating relationships" and attending trade shows and god knows what. But that casual work is combined with insane hours and insane travel (which means even more insane hours). No thank you. As long as I stay employed, I wear LIFO as a badge of honor.

[Skinypupy]

They call me LIFO here because I don't give in to the pressure of working 60+ hours a week on a regular basis like most of my office mates. Now, most of the people who work here, work on the commercial end of the business, so they work like you do. But they also seem to spend a lot of work time playing pretty hard. I'd hate it, personally. They make the big bucks. They spend a lot of time at work not working, and get to spend company money dicking around and "cultivating relationships" and attending trade shows and god knows what. But that casual work is combined with insane hours and insane travel (which means even more insane hours). No thank you. As long as I stay employed, I wear LIFO as a badge of honor.

Yeah, there's a lot of that. I don't know if I'd call it "playing" per se, but I spend lots of my time on things that folks might not consider "hard work": relationship building, strategic development, traveling to meetings, etc., etc. It's all stuff that has to be done if you want to succeed though, and it does take a lot of time. The travel is the worst part. Didn't bother me much before I had kids, but I'll go 2-3 month stretches where I'm gone more than I'm home, and I feel like I'm totally missing her grow up. That's taking far more of a toll that any of the long hours do.

The big upside (other than the $$) is that I have a 100% flexible work schedule. I can come and go whenever I please, work from home, work from a beach, whatever I want to do and as long as I'm hitting my sales goals, no one really cares. Hell, if I could find a way to work 10 hours a week from my basement and still make quota, I'm sure no one would ever say a word. That said, I'm staring down the barrel of a somewhat disastrous quarter for the first time in my career, so it'll be interesting to see if/how that dynamic changes.

[coopasonic]

I do my best to avoid diluting my salary in terms of $/hr. There are some people I work with that work what I consider to be insane hours and I put them in two categories. There's my boss that really loves getting his hands on the technical stuff and he doesn't have time for that during the day when he's busy being the boss so he does it after hours, but it's almost a hobby for him. Then there are the folks that just aren't very good at what they do and have to work their asses off to meet expectations. I guess there's a third category that want to be perceived as working their asses off and just spend a lot of time, but not a lot of effort.

I put in my 8-5 minus lunch and make sure the boss is happy with my work. He doesn't care about my hours. I guess it's a bonus that my boss is generally only in the office 2-3 days a week, but he's probably the most grounded boss I've ever had.

[Smoove_B]

The wife completely burned out at her last job because no one cared that she started at 7am every day when the rest of them would stroll in after 9am. All they wanted to know was why she couldn't stay until 6pm+ every night. Somehow she was "holding them up" because they couldn't move forward until she logged back into work after 7 or 8 at night. And then there was another core group that had no problems working until 10pm or working weekends - and of course management just ate it up.

It really is a sad state of affairs we've collectively come to accept.

[MHS]

I have absolutely 0 problem working over a weekend or putting in a 20 hour day (or a string of them) if there's something that has to be done- a deadline looming, a big project, whatever. It's the constant grind of long days for absolutely no reason that pisses me off. Everything we do here on a regular basis can be done within a 40 hour work week, without question, or it's being done wrong. My co-worker who is here the longest every day usually spends the first hour or two on the phone chatting with our remote tech support person about American Idol or their gardens or whatever. So it's not as if more work is going done in that 12-14 hour day, it's just that she's putting in the time so that The Boss feels like he's getting his money's worth.

[LordMortis]

Everything we do here on a regular basis can be done within a 40 hour work week, without question, or it's being done wrong.

That's my opinion and patience for things but we are a commercially driven office. Our availability needs to match the customer's and we need to do what it takes to be people you want to do business with. Without having to worry about accommodating the commercial end of things, I could get my job done most weeks on 15 or 20 hours. But I'm getting paid to be available with a smile probably as much as I am for actually having any sort of skill.

And that's why I hate meetings and flexible scheduling. All that stuff is my time spent waiting to accommodate someone else... But it pays the bills, the company is good about personal time, and I'm still as LIFO as I can be.

[coopasonic]

I forgot that part. I work for a bank... in the commercial division. The customers my system supports are largely 9 to 5ers. After hours system load is very low hence after hours problems are very low.

[Isgrimnur]

One of the principals couldn't make it, so my phone interview has been rescheduled for Wednesday.

[Matrix]

You could view that as a pro just as easily as a con. If your hours put into marketing don't matter, then you might as well do other things with your time. And it reduces your overhead if there's no point in spending money on advertising.

Yes its a mixed blessing. My goal is to improve my skills and abilities, and making money comes with it hand in hand. I finally came to terms with the nature of my field about two years ago, and since then i put much more effort to a) improve conversions b) once client in the system , improve efficiency. Work on promoting people who already in our system that haven't signed up yet. This have had significant effect on sign ups.

Also i think i found how to scale it up in my field related to mine, but i had to take a different route, had to build much larger team to meet potential diversities that i expect along the way. But having my company streamlined in terms of operations over the years, i can fully focus on the start up.

[GreenGoo]

I have absolutely 0 problem working over a weekend or putting in a 20 hour day (or a string of them) if there's something that has to be done- a deadline looming, a big project, whatever. It's the constant grind of long days for absolutely no reason that pisses me off.

Yet another similarity we have in common it sounds like.

When my boss asks me if I want to work this weekend, of course my answer is no. I never want to work any weekends ever. And while we're at it, can I have a 3 day work week too? But my response is just another question. Do you need me to work this weekend? If the answer is yes, or it would help, my answer is easy. I'll be there. Do you need next weekend too? Done. Do you need me to stay here until such and such is working? Will do, but can I get a cot in case I need to rest for a bit at 3am? Thanks.

I've recently put in two 14 hour days (separated by a week or so) for a client that has poor organizational skills and tight timelines. It was my pleasure. I didn't ask for permission or overtime (government employee with strict regulations, not all of which are to my benefit as an employee). I just did it. Client was appreciative (not enough imo, but c'est la vie) and I had job satisfaction of doing good work and bailing them out.

Good stuff, right? My boss who is incapable of saying "good job" to anyone, ever, didn't say anything to me. Fine, I don't need his validation anyway. He's hard on the morale of the entire team and this is the smallest of the reasons. Whatever. Except I recently took a sick day that I am entitled to, that I had bank for, and which didn't negatively impact anything in the office. We have a meeting tomorrow to "discuss" it. Which is ridiculous, given there is nothing to discuss and if I was as much of a prick as he is, I could invite my union rep to attend instead of me.

Seriously, I will give you the shirt off my back if you need it, but on a day to day basis, I am NOT working 60+ hours a week. If I wanted that I'd be in private industry where my salary would jump at least 25-33% (which is still less than the 50% more I'd be working).

Who the fuck thinks it's ok to have an employee give you 12 hours for free, then make a federal case out of taking a day of leave that they are entitled to, which caused exactly zero issues from a work stand point?

Dumbass.

It's morons like this that turn situations where employees are happy to work overtime to accomplish goals, into problems where employees are just not willing to go the extra mile for you for anything, even extremely important work.

[MHS]

I have absolutely 0 problem working over a weekend or putting in a 20 hour day (or a string of them) if there's something that has to be done- a deadline looming, a big project, whatever. It's the constant grind of long days for absolutely no reason that pisses me off.

Yet another similarity we have in common it sounds like.

When my boss asks me if I want to work this weekend, of course my answer is no. I never want to work any weekends ever. And while we're at it, can I have a 3 day work week too? But my response is just another question. Do you need me to work this weekend? If the answer is yes, or it would help, my answer is easy. I'll be there. Do you need next weekend too? Done. Do you need me to stay here until such and such is working? Will do, but can I get a cot in case I need to rest for a bit at 3am? Thanks.

I've recently put in two 14 hour days (separated by a week or so) for a client that has poor organizational skills and tight timelines. It was my pleasure. I didn't ask for permission or overtime (government employee with strict regulations, not all of which are to my benefit as an employee). I just did it. Client was appreciative (not enough imo, but c'est la vie) and I had job satisfaction of doing good work and bailing them out.

Good stuff, right? My boss who is incapable of saying "good job" to anyone, ever, didn't say anything to me. Fine, I don't need his validation anyway. He's hard on the morale of the entire team and this is the smallest of the reasons. Whatever. Except I recently took a sick day that I am entitled to, that I had bank for, and which didn't negatively impact anything in the office. We have a meeting tomorrow to "discuss" it. Which is ridiculous, given there is nothing to discuss and if I was as much of a prick as he is, I could invite my union rep to attend instead of me.

Seriously, I will give you the shirt off my back if you need it, but on a day to day basis, I am NOT working 60+ hours a week. If I wanted that I'd be in private industry where my salary would jump at least 25-33% (which is still less than the 50% more I'd be working).

Who the fuck thinks it's ok to have an employee give you 12 hours for free, then make a federal case out of taking a day of leave that they are entitled to, which caused exactly zero issues from a work stand point?

Dumbass.

It's morons like this that turn situations where employees are happy to work overtime to accomplish goals, into problems where employees are just not willing to go the extra mile for you for anything, even extremely important work.

Yup to all of this. And it blows. Good luck tomorrow in the meeting.

[Matrix]

GG, why not re-frame it? As soon as you come in for a meeting tell him, that you are happy that your extra time and project is being recognized, but he didn't need to set up meeting for that. You are not looking for the laurels. I dont see how he is going off on you for taking sick day after that "hint hint." If he is crazy enough to tell you that he called you not because of your good work, but because you take sick day off, you already will have ammunition to use that you can refer too. Though i am pretty sure it will stump him if you open with that.

[Isgrimnur]

May Unemployment - 8.2% (up 0.1%)

>= Age 25 by education level

Less than a high school diploma - 12.2% (down 0.2%, down 1.5% Year Over Year)
High school graduates, no college - 7.8% (up 0.1%, down 1.3% YOY)
Some college or associate degree - 7.4% (up 0.1%, down 0.1% YOY)
Bachelor's degree and higher - 3.7% (no change, down 0.6% YOY)

Table A-1 - Unemployment Rate Ages 16-19 - 24.4% (up 1.2%, up 0.4% YOY)

Table A-11 - Reasons for unemployment

Job losers and persons who completed temporary jobs	4.3
Job leavers	0.5
Reentrants	2.3
New entrants	0.8

Red = higher
Default = no change
Green = lower

[Exodor]

I can't help but wonder if the low job creation numbers and the willingness of workers to put in 20+ extra hours a week are related.


I work 8:30 -5 with a half hour lunch. If they don't like it they can get rid of me and I'll find another job easily enough. My time is far too valuable to waste it at work.

I share an office with a salaried guy who regularly puts in 70+ hours a week. He gets little recognition and certainly isn't compensated well enough to justify all the extra hours. He's asked for an assistant several times but doesn't seem to grasp that the company will never pay for another position when he's willing to do that work for free.

[Odin]

I can't help but wonder if the low job creation numbers and the willingness of workers to put in 20+ extra hours a week are related.

I don't think there's any doubt about it - as long as a company can get the milk for free, they're never going to buy any more cows. It started off with workers busting their butts to help keep companies going and avoid layoffs, then it became workers who were left picking up the slack after layoffs, and eventually it (d)evolved into a mutually-accepted notion that a worker just needs to work 50-70 hours a week because that's how it's done.

[LordMortis]

I can't help but wonder if the low job creation numbers and the willingness of workers to put in 20+ extra hours a week are related.

You know it and it's not just salaried positions. I know many an hourly worker on mandatory overtime right now because burning out two people at time and half is still cheaper than maintaining a whole nother employee.

(And I'm surprised we climbed by even .1%. Things look comparatively good around here and I figure we're at the bottom of the unemployed barrel)

[Octavious]

My boss is odd in that regard. She just told us in our weekly meeting today that we shouldn't be working weekends and if we're hitting 10 hours a day to come talk to her as we'll just burn out and suck otherwise. Since they pay like crap I don't come anywhere near 10 hours a day lately. I'm mostly 9-5 and generally eat lunch at my desk.

[GreenGoo]

GG, why not re-frame it? As soon as you come in for a meeting tell him, that you are happy that your extra time and project is being recognized, but he didn't need to set up meeting for that. You are not looking for the laurels. I dont see how he is going off on you for taking sick day after that "hint hint." If he is crazy enough to tell you that he called you not because of your good work, but because you take sick day off, you already will have ammunition to use that you can refer too. Though i am pretty sure it will stump him if you open with that.

He can't *do* anything. This is his ineffectual way of maintaining control. Or something. He's got to be a borderline sociopath, if not full fledged.

My best approach if I don't want to be at war for the rest of my tenure under him is to make everything go away as fast as possible. It's a cowardly approach but I'm here to work, not have boss battling as my main event each day.

I was just venting. If I ever need to actually deal with it rather than "deal" with it, I know what to do. I have enormous amounts of documentation as well as access to another co-worker's mp3 library of questionable and/or outright illegal things he's said. For Mr. Fed, the actions he's espousing are illegal, not the words. Don't want Mr. Free Speech getting all uppity about me living in the land of censorship, now do we?

Thanks though.

[stessier]

So a job has opened up in a plant I used to work at in SC (with my current company). I have no idea what my chances are, but I've done that basic job before and should be a decent, maybe even overqualified, fit. I'm trying hard not to get excited about it, but am failing miserably. To go from WI to SC....it would be quality of life heaven.

Some possible stumbling blocks - job fit (they are targeting a pay level below mine, but that generally means my title is included in the search), the interview (should go well - I worked with all those people before and seemed well liked), the relocation package (have a house to sell and will need company assistance or it ain't happening).

Must not get excited. Must not get excited. Must not get excited.

Talking to the hiring manager this afternoon to get a feel for what he's looking for. Keeping my fingers crossed.

The conversation with the hiring manager went well and I got through the internal HR screening. The newest stumbling block was that my house has apparently lost 20% of it's value in the last 3 years and there was a question of how that was going to be handled. It looks like there is a company program in place that should minimize our loss or, if we manage to sell for a good enough price, break even. So they will be flying me down in the next week or so for the on site interview. Woo-hoo!

It's kind of stressful though. We have to think about selling a house, buying a house, and getting our kids into school next year. But only if we get the job - otherwise we don't really want to spend any money fixing the little things required to sell the house and we don't have to worry about school for next year. It's a weird bewtween-er place to be stuck in.

Update:

Well drat, looks like my BBQ cravings will go unfulfilled. Just got the call to say they went with someone else. Probably for the best with the current house situation, but man I wanted to move back there. Ah well - at least they said it was a tough decision rather than that I blew the interview. (Ok, sure, they always say that - but throw me a bone here. )

[Isgrimnur]

Technical interview is complete. I have a couple holes in my tech knowledge (building PDFs?!? Really?), but I think it went well overall. I didn't have any derp moments about the structure of the systems I've been working with for the past 4.5 years and I think I did decently in the situational questions. I may not have come up with a "Phased deployment" approach to resolving timing issues, but that's not where my mind goes when you tell me there's a "dead drop date". But I think I recovered well enough, indicating that just because I might not be able to meet a deadline due to timing issues, I still wouldn't attempt to get everything completed that I could.

Anyhoo, it's on to the three interviewers to discuss and coordinate with the recruiter. So now the waiting begins. If things don't work out, it's a month until I should know about my promotion here. And then I'll be calling coop for contacts where he works.

[Isgrimnur]

How did the meeting go, GG?

[Kraken]

My wife passed her telephone screening interview with Mass General and has an in-person interview tomorrow. She's meeting with at least half a dozen big players over the course of 3 hours.

Haven't heard anything about the Northeastern job yet, but hoping it's still in play.

Either one of those jobs would be a big step up from her current position.

[The Meal]

Bittersweet here. I got hired on back in March on a 90-day temp contract with the hope (never a promise) that there'd be a full-time position. In the mean time, open reqs did open up and two of them were filled, but I couldn't be considered for those because of the temp contract. Apparently the 90 days (the terms between my employer and my contract employer were never shared with me) ran out last Friday. On Tuesday the battle to get me signed for another "90 days" (scare quotes because I could still be let go tomorrow for any reason whatsoever, and will be if there's any sniff of layoffs bandied about) was resolved in the affirmative. Had that battle (and the phrase "tooth and nail" was uttered in describing the level to which internal negotiations were conducted) gone the other way, I was told that the 9.5 hours I put in on Monday technically would've been provided from yours truly, "gratis."

Good times.

So, who's got experience in finding self-insurance? My current provider runs out come July, and unless something full-time comes up before then (and yes, that "90 days" also works the other way, in my favor), I'm going to need something by then.

[Grundbegriff]

Technical interview is complete. I have a couple holes in my tech knowledge (building PDFs?!? Really?)

We do that with a neat little library called iText. Czech it out!

[Isgrimnur]

That might help if we weren't working with a proprietary middle tier language...

Which is why I'm currently reading a C# text.

[Austin]

Bittersweet here. I got hired on back in March on a 90-day temp contract with the hope (never a promise) that there'd be a full-time position. In the mean time, open reqs did open up and two of them were filled, but I couldn't be considered for those because of the temp contract. Apparently the 90 days (the terms between my employer and my contract employer were never shared with me) ran out last Friday. On Tuesday the battle to get me signed for another "90 days" (scare quotes because I could still be let go tomorrow for any reason whatsoever, and will be if there's any sniff of layoffs bandied about) was resolved in the affirmative. Had that battle (and the phrase "tooth and nail" was uttered in describing the level to which internal negotiations were conducted) gone the other way, I was told that the 9.5 hours I put in on Monday technically would've been provided from yours truly, "gratis."

Good times.

So, who's got experience in finding self-insurance? My current provider runs out come July, and unless something full-time comes up before then (and yes, that "90 days" also works the other way, in my favor), I'm going to need something by then.

It stinks, but we have been self-insured for about 4 years now. We have a 10k deductible so are covered for anything uber bad that could happen, at which point 10k is peanuts and far from our minds. Having young kids this has sucked from time to time and we just forked out ~5k in medical stuff for my wife who developed some problems here in Africa, but thankfully nothing life-threatening.

Anyway, I would go with an HSA. High deductible with a health savings account. You can put in ~6k/year into a tax free account to be used for health items. This is not like a flex thing that expires, and should you die with money in it, it is a part of your estate. Our quarterly premiums are like $1100 and I am sure yours would be much much lower. On the plus side, we're covered up to like 5 Million if something really bad happens to any/all of us.

[Kraken]

So, who's got experience in finding self-insurance?

Ugh. It varies from state to state...my experience was harrowing. You can read about it on my blog if you want the whole sordid story (read from the bottom up).

Cliff's Notes version: We scraped by with federal COBRA subsidies and our state's Medical Security Plan, but the situation turned dire when COBRA ran out. We were not poor enough to qualify for state subsidies, but we were poor enough to escape the coverage mandate. "Congratulations! We won't smite you for going uninsured!" Um, thanks? When you're 50+ years old going uninsured is not an option.

Check to see if you can get group rates through AAA, AARP, or any professional associations that you belong to. If you have to pay full retail you're screwed.

[Isgrimnur]

Had to dig deep and give a former supervisor contact from 8 years ago, and did one contact for a colleague here at work that I mentored when he came on. Of course, now he out ranks me.

But apparently the reviews were glowing, as I just got a call from the recruiter saying that I have the offer. 2-3 year work from home contract as a lead developer. After accounting for the lost 401k and increased cost in benefits, hourly wage will be ~$10 more an hour than I currently get. And anything more than 40 hours is paid, so any long nights and weekends will be rewarded.

Background check pending, and have to review the paperwork, but it's looking more and more solid.

[GreenGoo]

How did the meeting go, GG?

Not nearly as interesting as my rant would have made it seem.

He's such a strange guy. He started personably enough, talked about how he practiced the conversation on his wife a few times because he knows he can be abrasive. The truth is, although he doesn't get any slack from the rest of the team, it's clear he's deeply troubled and damaged man, and I feel sorry for him, especially when he tries to overcome his failings. He has a personnel file chock full of complaints, grievances and warnings. He should not be in charge of people. Ever. He's a pretty good administrator though.

I was completely conciliatory for various personal reasons. I'm a cupcake at work, except when I'm not. My job does not require me to exercise my (occasionally) forceful personality so I don't. It's better for me that way. Less conflict. Which is better for everyone, pretty much. I made it easy for him to get through his spiel, which wasn't anything he hasn't said before and certainly not something that was worth meeting over. There aren't any issues. He basically said as much, so there was no legitimate reason for the meeting. But it doesn't go on my permanent record, it was not a reprimand and his bosses could not care less what he thinks about his personnel, so it wasn't production or useful in anyway. If this is the worst way he wastes my time I'm doing ok.

We ended up talking about his daughter and wife for a bit, then ended on a 45 minute discussion of Diablo 3. The rest of the team was grateful for keeping him occupied as long as I did, and bought me a coke at lunch.

I should probably be more circumspect about what I write with regard to work, while at work. I try to keep things general but why take the risk.

Edit: Oh, and that being said, he stepped (farther) over the line with regard to something else more official and REALLY pissed me off. I contemplated speaking to his boss about it off the record, but choose to let this slide too. There were too few possible benefits and far too many pitfalls to warrant acting. Hopefully he will realize what he's doing and curtail it. I do not want to have to go all official on him. It's tiring and not a productive use of time.

[MHS]

I should probably be more circumspect about what I write with regard to work, while at work. I try to keep things general but why take the risk.

I think this every time I mention work, but sometimes I just need to vent, and you guys are the closest thing I have to the "friends" that normal people seem to use for such purposes.

Glad it went ok.

[GreenGoo]

I should probably be more circumspect about what I write with regard to work, while at work. I try to keep things general but why take the risk.

I think this every time I mention work, but sometimes I just need to vent, and you guys are the closest thing I have to the "friends" that normal people seem to use for such purposes.

Glad it went ok.

There was never any risk of it going any other way. There is literally nothing he could do about it. Even calling the meeting could have gotten him in trouble, if I was a douche. Unionized dontcha know. But in seriousness it takes one or both sides being complete douches before the union would get involved. Since there was no risk to anything from a professional standpoint, I never even considered union representation. That would be petty and not change a damn thing as far as meeting outcome is concerned.

If he had a leg to stand on it could have been different, but I'm a good guy and I know where the limits/boundaries are and stay far away from them. But he didn't even go far. Sometimes it's hard to understand his motivations even when you're talking directly to him. There have been a few times in the past where I've gotten frustrated and asked him what point he was trying to make. You can imagine the anger he has to clamp down on then. It's....unpleasant. In any case, I think he was trying tor remind me to not take leave if I didn't need to, but that's just a guess.

It was annoying. Like having your child admonish you because you didn't take your dishes into the kitchen, because you were busy taking his in and was planning to return for yours. Ok, bad analogy, but it's like being lectured by a child that doesn't really understand what the rules are, what's appropriate to discuss, and no social skills.

[Isgrimnur]

Oh, and the recruiter has indicated that there is no issue with me taking my late July/Early August trip to Colorado as planned.

[MHS]

Oh, and the recruiter has indicated that there is no issue with me taking my late July/Early August trip to Colorado as planned.

Yay!

[GreenGoo]

There is literally nothing he could do about it.

Just to be clear. There was nothing he could do about *it* because *it* didn't exist. As far as I could tell, the *it* was taking a sick day. Two weeks after having given him 6+ (I don't even remember the actual number) hours for free. There is no funky policy involved, it's very straight forward. For single days like that, as long as you have it in the bank you can take it. Doesn't even require a doctor's note. And I didn't leave any work hanging out to dry.

I'm starting to sound defensive so I'll stop. I just wanted it clear that I wasn't hiding behind any union rules or whatever, thumbing my nose at the man. Everything I did was on the up and up. The salt in the wound was that he'd just gotten a day, maybe a bit more out of me for free, no hassles, no arguments, management stress free. I volunteered my time to solve a time sensitive problem, which wasn't even acknowledged, let alone given an "attaboy".

Grrr.

[Isgrimnur]

Forms have been signed, scanned, and sent. Effective July 2nd, I will start my new journey ... doing the same things I've been doing before ... but for a lot more money.