Diablo 3 Impressions

[Smoove_B]

Actually, I can see that working, but Diablo has always been about fountains of loot with only the occasional drop being noteworthy even as vendor trash. It's the Monty Haul of Rogue-likes.

I think that might be one area that they messed up (though I've never released a AAA PC game before so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about). The latest generation of games that allowed me to salvage goods in the field for a significantly reduced payout re-wired my brain from the way I was trained back in the days of Diablo. Now it feels like I'm going backwards by leaving gear on the ground and only picking up the noteworthy stuff. Clearly I'm in the minority if it's something that was in the beta and then patched out, but it just feels...off.

[GreenGoo]

Well, there really wasn't any reason to pick up whites in Diablo II either. I vaguely recall picking up everything in Diablo I, but it's been too long to remember. Maybe?

Just think of it as a cost/benefit problem, and realize that moving on to kill that next thing that drops a yellow is all benefit that is lost when you stop kiling and start picking up 3 gold white items and shuttling them back to camp over and over again.

[GreenGoo]

I should considering that I made tons of gold abusing the WoW AH. The WoW AH was more like a minigame. The D3 AH feels like a chore, which is why I'm not really putting the effort into it.

I know, which is why I was sort of redirecting people trying to tell you how to do it.

As for this AH being a chore, is it because of the sheer volume, a poor interface, or...?

I don't have any experience with Diablo 3 AH yet, although I'll probably jump in this weekend, finally.

What we need is some LUA based addons to do all the heavy lifting for us. Who wants to develop a D3 auctioneer? Anyone?

[Jaymann]

A nice solution might have been no whites in Nightmare or higher, while reducing blues as well. If you have made it that far it's pretty clear you won't be using them.

[silverjon]

Well, there really wasn't any reason to pick up whites in Diablo II either. I vaguely recall picking up everything in Diablo I, but it's been too long to remember. Maybe?

Loot drops in D1 are infrequent enough that by the time your inventory is full, you've probably run out of potions anyway (no health/mana recovery over time means you're dependent on potions). The odd rags/cloak/cap might get left behind, but I sell pretty much everything. Buying elixirs and spellbooks means D1 has more long-term gold sinks than D2 even though gear upgrades are fewer and further between.

D1 also has the risk of cursed items that sell for less than the cost of IDing them (unless you're a bard in Hellfire and have it as a class skill).

Edit: D1 also very importantly has no respawn unless you restart, so you can't just go around looking for better drops.

[ska5fe]

Well, there really wasn't any reason to pick up whites in Diablo II either.

There were white Staves and Wands with +skills on them that were worth quite a bit of gold, I always picked those up in DII (although gold eventually became irrelevant at high levels).

[Zurai]

Superior items and exceptional/elite items in D2 were worth a pretty penny. It was worthwhile to pick them up to sell because of being able to gamble for rares and uniques. D3 doesn't have that same money sink (the blacksmith is probably supposed to replace gambling, but it fails because it requires more than just money and because you have to find recipes for what you want to gamble on).

[GreenGoo]

Edit: D1 also very importantly has no respawn unless you restart, so you can't just go around looking for better drops.

Excellent point. I can vaguely remember picking up everything that ever dropped, but couldn't be sure if I was misremembering or what.

That would explain the need to pick up every damn thing though.

[GreenGoo]

Well, there really wasn't any reason to pick up whites in Diablo II either.

There were white Staves and Wands with +skills on them that were worth quite a bit of gold, I always picked those up in DII (although gold eventually became irrelevant at high levels).

Yeah, that rings a bell as well.

[Crabbs]

Anyone playing any HC or are you all playing SC? There are a few of us over at The Wanderers that are playing, but still only ever a handful. Look me up if you want some HC company/ Crabbs#1709

Really loving this game and rediscovered why I played 99% HC in D2. The added element of risk and adrenaline when you almost die, or wonder if you're ready for the next boss encounter is just way too addicting.

[GreenGoo]

A nice solution might have been no whites in Nightmare or higher, while reducing blues as well. If you have made it that far it's pretty clear you won't be using them.

It's a psychological decision, as Lawbeef et al have mentioned. It has nothing to do with logic or what makes sense and everything to do with keeping the carrot constantly in view and interesting.

[Crabbs]

Well, there really wasn't any reason to pick up whites in Diablo II either.

There were white Staves and Wands with +skills on them that were worth quite a bit of gold, I always picked those up in DII (although gold eventually became irrelevant at high levels).

Yeah, that rings a bell as well.

High level armors, staves, wands, and scepters sold for a very pretty penny in D2, but D3 it's not even worth touching.

[GreenGoo]

Anyone playing any HC or are you all playing SC? There are a few of us over at The Wanderers that are playing, but still only ever a handful. Look me up if you want some HC company/ Crabbs#1709

Really loving this game and rediscovered why I played 99% HC in D2. The added element of risk and adrenaline when you almost die, or wonder if you're ready for the next boss encounter is just way too addicting.

I'm probably going to start my first HC tonight, with the understanding that I will probably lose him tonight. If you create a HC character and it dies, what happens to the stash if you don't have any other HC characters? I might make 2 just to keep te answer to that question irrelevant.

[GreenGoo]

Well, there really wasn't any reason to pick up whites in Diablo II either.

There were white Staves and Wands with +skills on them that were worth quite a bit of gold, I always picked those up in DII (although gold eventually became irrelevant at high levels).

Yeah, that rings a bell as well.

High level armors, staves, wands, and scepters sold for a very pretty penny in D2, but D3 it's not even worth touching.

I alluded to this earlier when I noted that whites in normal and nightmare are worth approximately the same, nothing.

[wonderpug]

Between the risk of server connection issues and the issues I seem to have with this game making my system crash from overheating, hardcore mode seems like a ticking timebomb to a frustrating computer-related character death.

[Crabbs]

Anyone playing any HC or are you all playing SC? There are a few of us over at The Wanderers that are playing, but still only ever a handful. Look me up if you want some HC company/ Crabbs#1709

Really loving this game and rediscovered why I played 99% HC in D2. The added element of risk and adrenaline when you almost die, or wonder if you're ready for the next boss encounter is just way too addicting.

I'm probably going to start my first HC tonight, with the understanding that I will probably lose him tonight. If you create a HC character and it dies, what happens to the stash if you don't have any other HC characters? I might make 2 just to keep te answer to that question irrelevant.

Stash and cash shared across all HC characters, just like regular. I look at each death as a building block for the next toon, eventually gearing me up to become more and more survivable. Biggest piece of advice is take it slow, whenever you rush or misjudge, it's gonna bite you in the ass.

[Crabbs]

Between the risk of server connection issues and the issues I seem to have with this game making my system crash from overheating, hardcore mode seems like a ticking timebomb to a frustrating computer-related character death.

I've been really lucky with my connection. I've had two disconnects and those were in the first 48hr of server startup. I'm logged on for hours on end during work, just waiting in town for a quick 5 minute jaunt between appointments. So far at least I've been on the lucky end of the disconnect issues some have had.

[GreenGoo]

Anyone playing any HC or are you all playing SC? There are a few of us over at The Wanderers that are playing, but still only ever a handful. Look me up if you want some HC company/ Crabbs#1709

Really loving this game and rediscovered why I played 99% HC in D2. The added element of risk and adrenaline when you almost die, or wonder if you're ready for the next boss encounter is just way too addicting.

I'm probably going to start my first HC tonight, with the understanding that I will probably lose him tonight. If you create a HC character and it dies, what happens to the stash if you don't have any other HC characters? I might make 2 just to keep te answer to that question irrelevant.

Stash and cash shared across all HC characters, just like regular. I look at each death as a building block for the next toon, eventually gearing me up to become more and more survivable. Biggest piece of advice is take it slow, whenever you rush or misjudge, it's gonna bite you in the ass.

Yeah, but what happens if there aren't any HC. Does the stash exist in a vacuum, waiting for the next HC character to be created?

My HC forays are guaranteed to end in frustration and quitting. I am incapable of playing cautiously enough to stay alive for any length of time. The only good thing is Normal is very easy and I'll probably start with a monk. I'll still die, and I'll still be pissed off, in act I, but at least I won't die before reaching New Tristram like I would if I played a witch doctor or something.

[Lorini]

No mods in D3 unfortunately

[tripcrow]

Well I’ve hit a snag again. It ain’t just that my 55 WD keeps on dying in the latter parts of Act2 Hell, it’s that everyone I get teamed up with keeps dying too. Folks keep getting frustrated and leave the game. The difficulty levels are all messed up. I tried using a different build with gear I was hording in case my build didn’t work out. That turned out even worse. Maybe if you buy from the store it’d be different. I thought about just making a run through. The main required bosses aren’t that hard. They just take long to beat. But I’m not even sure I want to be bothered with playing hardcore knowing what is ahead.

As a last resort I went and spent near all my gold and tomes on upgrading the blacksmith to mid level 8 I think it is and jeweler too. The blacksmith is a “total” waste. How did Blizzard mess this up so bad? He, like the stores, never has anything of any use. Why even have a blacksmith or merchants? It ain’t like D2 where you could find stuff for sale that was better than what you have. Guess they want me to pay more real cash once the store goes $ so I can keep on playing. That isn’t going to happen. The shakes from not playing for better than a day are starting to ease and I may be able to shelf this one for good or until they make some major changes. Wish my digital copy had some resale value. My boys don’t even seem to be that interested in it.

[Doomboy]

The blacksmith is more like playing a slot machine. You have to know what you want, and keep trying to get those three mystery slots to be close enough to make the piece worth keeping.

I know I have made quite a few very good pieces. And many, many more worthless ones that instantly get recycled.

Of course, if I had spent that time looking through the auction house, I might have found better, but I find myself annoyed with the AH. Too many people think it is a good idea not to have a buyout.

That said, I have yet to find a decent weapon while playing. Everything else, no problem. Weapons don't seem to drop for me, so I ended up going to the AH to look for weapons.

[Exodor]

That said, I have yet to find a decent weapon while playing. Everything else, no problem. Weapons don't seem to drop for me, so I ended up going to the AH to look for weapons.

The AH is too annoying to use for me - but it's the only reliable way to upgrade your weapon which is crucial to keeping your DPS up.

I've been buying my weapon upgrades on the AH and all my armor comes from drops and the Blacksmith.

Then again I'm only in Act III Normal. I'm kinda slow.

[Lorini]

Always put a Max price in the search engine, that way you'll only get items with buyouts.

[msduncan]

using the AH over the past two days, I've managed to push my level 57 Barbarian's DPS to 5800. I'm slicing my way through Hell difficulty now on a collision course with Inferno.

I wants me some of those Banner graphics from downing Inferno bosses!

[Orgull]

Just started INFERNO!!! Didn't seem so bad at first. Then a Risen in the first "Cellar" I encountered, one-shotted me. The loot drops are obscene. Everything has stats WAY higher than anything that dropped in Hell.

I'm a level 60 Wizard, with 54814 Life and dealing 9132.73 DPS. Just finished the fight against Captain Daltyn in Adria's Hidden Cellar. The fight took over two minutes and I was near death several times. Thank goodness for Teleport with Fracture.

There is going to be some white-knuckle combat ahead!

[Zurai]

<snicker> You ain't seen nuthin yet. I breeze through act 1 Inferno now on my monk (gave up on the barb). I get one-shot by non-elite monsters in act 4 farming for gear so I can progress in a normal fashion in act 2.

[GreenGoo]

Anyone finding Diablo 3 less epic than the first two?

It could just be the ease of Normal, but it just seems so fast, easy and less engaging, despite having a tighter, better told story and much better combat.

Something is missing from the game as a whole, despite the parts being really well made and better than the previous versions.

I'm not disappointed exactly, it just doesn't feel like a struggle to overcome insane odds stacked against you as you take on the legions of hell.

Having finished Normal as a Demon Hunter, I can answer my own question now. It was because normal was too easy, with a Monk. The DH is a slaying machine, but she can get into trouble fairly easily. It didn't help that I spec'd for magic find, so my hp was less than 2k when I took on Diablo, although my dps was still more than twice what my monk's was at the time.

Once I hit act IV with the DH I could get into a lot of trouble with any charging or teleporting bad guys. I couldn't be one shotted, but it was close, and if I had taken any damage recently then yeah, I could drop like a stone if a corrupted angel charged through me. Was way more intense than with my Monk.

And don't get me started on Diablo. With my ~1700 hp he could one shot me if I wasn't careful. With my Monk, I just stood toe to toe with him. With my DH, who's healing consisted of 1 potion every 30 seconds, I was kiting my balls off (she didn't have any balls, but still). It probably took me 5-7 tries to defeat him, but that's with experience from my monk and knowing what to expect. It wasn't quite "make 1 mistake = die" but it was very close. I also had 3 deaths back to back where I died within 60 seconds of the fight starting. That almost had me quit for the night. Almost all my deaths besides those felt like I had been extremely unlucky, as I knew what to do and was doing it but big D still got his hands on me once in awhile. If my shots couldn't hit him from off screen, I doubt I could have done it without a lot more tries. I'd say about 50% of his health was taken by my (crappy) turret and my shots that travelled off screen to hit him. It would have been insanely tough if he had to be on screen to damage him, since being that close to him has his ai do all sorts of fun things to you.

In short, the entire ride with my DH was epic, and killing Diablo was a running, gunning, thinking battle that lasted minutes, with almost zero room for error. Epic battle to end an epic journey.

[J.D.]

I found Act III to be pretty epic in feel. And nightmare mode is epic all the time. I actually feel like I accomplished something when I take down a pack of elite mortar jailers *shudder*.

[Sudy Nym]

Agreed, the real fun begins in the later acts of nightmare and the start of hell. I was geared well enough to beat Diablo on my 1st try on nightmare as my WD, but that's using defensive abilities pretty much on cooldown and kiting like mad.

Act 1 hell has been just incredible though. Joined a public game for the first time, and had our butts handed to us by elites several times. But we always battled back. Sometimes we'd kite them all the way back to the entrance.

For the skeleton king, was just me and a monk with a third player AFK. It was a rather repetitive 5+ minute fight, but very exciting. You really have to watch your positioning as the ranged classes.

[msduncan]

Question about the economy, in specific the longevity of the auction house:

They placed no bind on equip items in this game -- everything you buy or find you can use and then remove and sell.

Over a very short period of time, wouldn't that cause a flood of very similar items onto the auction house thus deflating prices and making the real money auction house rather pointless? I mean people are already farming Inferno. It will only take weeks before the AH is LOADED with every item type and variation you can think of. At least in WoW you always had interesting things on the AH because most were bind on equip and thus once they were used they were removed from circulation.

[GreenGoo]

The Real Money AH is for the stones of jordan quality items, of which we haven't seen many, if any (I haven't looked too closely).

Found my second legendary using a level 26 barb in Act III with +80% magic find. It's a decent fist weapon called Rabid Strike.

As has been said, sockets are kind of important to push dps higher, and this legendary has one so that's good.

As much as it pains me to say it (although I always sorta knew it) a couple of purchases (cheap, like less than 1000 gold each) and my barb is about twice as effective as he was before.

I don't like that. I want to find loot that helps me along, not buy it from other people. I will probably adjust, but this is a major aspect of Diablo that I was in love with, and now it has taken a back seat to the inter-player economy. Meh.

[Crabbs]

Question about the economy, in specific the longevity of the auction house:

They placed no bind on equip items in this game -- everything you buy or find you can use and then remove and sell.

Over a very short period of time, wouldn't that cause a flood of very similar items onto the auction house thus deflating prices and making the real money auction house rather pointless? I mean people are already farming Inferno. It will only take weeks before the AH is LOADED with every item type and variation you can think of. At least in WoW you always had interesting things on the AH because most were bind on equip and thus once they were used they were removed from circulation.

I think that's where they need to adjust crafting, so that it will consume some of these items. I'm pretty sure they will patch this in at some point, maybe not until an expansion, but over the long run they will need to adjust for the items not being removed from circulation.

On the other hand you want to remember that because of the complete randomness of drops, the odds of a perfect item (high end rare with full stats) is going to be almost impossible to get so they might be basing their economy decisions on such drop probabilities.

[Smoove_B]

I don't like that. I want to find loot that helps me along, not buy it from other people. I will probably adjust, but this is a major aspect of Diablo that I was in love with, and now it has taken a back seat to the inter-player economy. Meh.

This is what happened to me. I was going without the AH until about level 20 or so with my Demon Hunter. But then out of nowhere I was getting cut down by the invisible disappearing / reappearing snake dudes that I couldn't not hit at range. My armor was too low and even when I put a shield in my off hand if they completely surrounded me it was usually a gamble as to whether or not I'd survive. It was complete shift in what I experienced during Act I where I felt unstoppable. To my surprise I was able to obtain Legendary gear with 2X the armor rating PLUS all sorts of vitality, dexterity, etc... bonuses for less than what vendors were charging for crappy magic gear at the shops. Way better than anything I could find while playing. We're talking way less than 1000 gold for each piece. It's like...we're playing a crowd-sourced dungeon crawler. While it might have been possible to bunker down and chew my way through, after gearing up in the AH I'm back to insane levels of damage, health and armor.

[YellowKing]

Well, one of the perks to the system is that you are free to make the game as hard or as easy as you see fit, depending on your approach to the AH. Personally I have decide not to use it until I get to a point where I can't advance without better gear. So far (Act 2 Nightmare), I haven't reached that point.

Some people may not like the almost necessary AH usage in the later (Hell, Inferno) levels, but the alternative would be A) making good item drops significantly more common, thus devaluing them or B) forcing players into farming endlessly. I think it's a decent compromise - if you want to farm then you can do so pretty easily since special mobs drop rares as often as bosses, and if you choose not to then the AH is always there to let you just keep playing without having to grind.

As long as AH usage is built into the game design/difficulty, I don't have a big problem with it. If it was some third party solution that players cobbled together just to make the game balanced, then it would be a different story.

I understand GreenGoo's point, as the purist in me agrees for the most part. I'd like to have my cake and eat it too - i.e. be able to find all the loot I need to beat the game without other players' help. But I have to admit the aspect of "crowdsourcing" loot to give each other a chance to beat Diablo on the hardest difficulty is intriguing. Besides, it's not like the gear is on the AH for free - at some level you still have to "earn" it if nothing else by spending gold.

Real money AH is a different story - I've never liked real money = real advantage in an way it has been presented. It remains to be seen how it will ultimately affect D3.

[Little Raven]

I'm deliberately abstaining from the AH until I finish normal difficulty.

Normal is already pretty easy. I can't imagine what it would be like twinked out.

[Smoove_B]

Normal is already pretty easy. I can't imagine what it would be like twinked out.

As someone that's currently in Act 3 on Normal, I'm finding that there isn't a one-shot set of gear that's making me unstoppable. Yes, I can find stuff that helps for a bit, but the tactics of the enemy are fluid; I'm hardly indestructible.

[GreenGoo]

I'm deliberately abstaining from the AH until I finish normal difficulty.

Normal is already pretty easy. I can't imagine what it would be like twinked out.

Slightly more fun, I'm embarrassed to say. Although I twinked out for magic find, mostly. I was already gearing that way, but using the AH I was able to up magic find percent on a couple of pieces while throwing on some vit and str too.

I'm sure I could double my effectiveness again if I geared for dps with a side of survivability and spent some bucks.

I will say the AH takes pretty much any joy I might have in finding a legendary and flushes it down the toilet. When you find a legendary, see it's decent, but not great, then decide to sell it on the AH only to find 5 pages of the exact same legendary going for a couple of grand, it takes that exciting slot machine aspect of the game, and turns a jackpot into something boring and mundane.

Boo on that blizzard. Boo.

[Little Raven]

Yes, I can find stuff that helps for a bit, but the tactics of the enemy are fluid; I'm hardly indestructible.

I know classes vary a lot, but I find that as long as I have vault, my DH will never die.

She just runs away to fight another day if necessary. (the backflip away while firing in their face skill is also amazingly handy)

[GreenGoo]

Normal is already pretty easy. I can't imagine what it would be like twinked out.

As someone that's currently in Act 3 on Normal, I'm finding that there isn't a one-shot set of gear that's making me unstoppable. Yes, I can find stuff that helps for a bit, but the tactics of the enemy are fluid; I'm hardly indestructible.

The monk is indestructible naked, in normal. The barb is nearly indestructible with decent gear. My DH was a killing machine untwinked that would die at random in the blink of an eye, but otherwise rolled through anything she encountered. My untwinked mage is about the right level of difficulty for it to be fun without being too easy, imo. Still easy, but I have to pay attention or I die. No opinion on WD. Still on Act II with him.

I'm playing 2 HC characters with a 3rd coming soon and that is unheard of for me in either D1 or D2. Probably because Normal is so easy that I can make progress without becoming too frustrated. I will be very surprised if either of these two characters live through Act 1. I'm just not cautious enough and I'm not sure I can train myself to be otherwise.

[Smoove_B]

That's the weird thing about the AH. Yesterday I was pricing my Legendary gear just below the comparable stuff for sale (no duh). However, 95% of the stuff I put up expired. So this morning I put it up for a fraction of the cost -- AH prices were 20,000+ so I list it for 2000. Gone within 30 minutes (or less). It's an order of magnitude more than the vendors would give me but still a ridiculous price for what I would think is ridiculous gear. So what's happening is the AH isn't really showing what's available at any given time because (I think) Legendary gear that's priced right (1000? 2000? 3000?) is going very, very quick and the only thing you're ever seeing is a small snapshot of what's available because it's moving off the AH so quickly. Yeah, there's a ton of gear at 20,000+, but it's never going to sell when you can get stuff so cheap. I seriously have no idea who these people are with 20K buyout prices, but they're clearly smoking crack.